Unrealistic Tyre Wear(Softs,medium,hard) they wear at the same rate(UNREALISTIC)

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Enzo309

Enzo309

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these are the facts :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyInar4mMUA

and in GT5 its completely wrong. It cant be like this

A couple of months ago there was an update of the soft tyres getting an increased durability in terms of tyre wear atleast , I believe they doubled the durability.

I never really used hards or mediums but just softs because obviously it provides the best grip of all 3 but when I started doing ferrari f1 300 km online races I noticed that all of the 3 wear at the same rate.

This really ruins the "pit strategies" online , tyres play a huge role in "racing strategies"

also the harder it is the harder to heat up the tyre also.

Hards last longer than medium and soft

Mediums last longer than soft


this plays a huge roll in real grand prix distance race strategies , pit stop strategies , set up , saving the tyres , heavy damage


Obviously many people complain about softs wearing off too quickly but those are the people who dont know anything about "real tyres" , "suspension set up" , "race strategies"

I recommend those people to turn off the tyre wear so they there you have it!!

but I am sorry in long distance races with heavy damage and re fueling / tyre

this destroys the "strategies"

simply because if I was to (repair needed)crash earlier than the designated lap for pit stop then whats the point of having "hards" or "mediums" if softs are going to have the same durability but having the "soft grip" in it.

Or if I wanted to use Hards at first to push my next pit stop to some further laps than the others that are using softs.

I race Ferrari F1's , usually 300km races and this is affects it hugely and a huge disappointment by racing experience and also very unrealistic.

In real racing they have these 3 kinds of compounds to sort out whats the optimum option at the momment wether its an early pit stop because of a damaged part or using softs at first or hards at first or even mediums at first to further push the next stop or after an early pit stop or later pit stop , you have the option of whats the best tyre to use for the momment.

In formula 1 there's even 4 compounds. (supersofts)
 
Is that so?

I drift 99% of my time, always using Confort Hard Tires. And i was figuring that during any endurance driift race competition (with a large ammount of laps, like 6~10), drifter with this hard compound could have some advantage and win the deal since he wouldn´t tend to stop at the pit.

So sad... so all tire compounds are consumed equaly? What next?
Fuel consumption also doesn´t makes the cars less heavier?
 
Not true. the difference just isn't as extreme as you might think it is. Soft tires might get you 10 good laps while mediums would get you 12 and hards would get you 13. Mediums are designed for the bulk of a long race when you are mostly trying to drive efficiently. Softs are best for the beginning if you want to try to move up quickly at the start. Hards are best if you need a set of tires that will last just a little longer than softs and mediums. It matters in close endurance races after things get messy.
 
Also, cars do get lighter with less fuel. since refueling takes the most time in a pit stop, cars always begin with a full tank of fuel. that way, they can fill up little bit each pit stop to avoid time losses. However, there are quite a few cars that could benefit from starting the race with less fuel... But oh well.
 
Tire life is determined not only by the compund, but by how much you slide (given away by the squeel).
Usually I find myself overworking hard tires more than soft and in result hards last only marginally more than lost.
However, if you try not to exceed traction limits and avoid skidding, hard tires can last MUCH more than softs (like 1.5 times). You will be much slower, however.
 
What I find weird is how racing softs have awesome grip in the rain, Dont have much experiance with this IRL but im fairly sure this shouldnt be the case.
 
daltonlm
Is that so?

I drift 99% of my time, always using Confort Hard Tires. And i was figuring that during any endurance driift race competition (with a large ammount of laps, like 6~10), drifter with this hard compound could have some advantage and win the deal since he wouldn´t tend to stop at the pit.

So sad... so all tire compounds are consumed equaly? What next?
Fuel consumption also doesn´t makes the cars less heavier?
Click to expand...

Drift racing isn't even racing.... usually these are judged by technique anyways, and you can drift without comfort hards.

Also I think in single player fuel weight doesn't play a factor.. That's why people make wheelie cars Offline that don't work online.

As for the topic, there has been a thread made about this before, and I know from experience that you DON'T NEED TO PIT if your tires are low.. if someone pits and you are low on tires you can still do many laps, even if you are getting a 1 second slower lap, it's better than taking the 40~60 second pit for 10 more laps than you would otherwise. Also, you should be aware of your tires at all times anyways.. by taking slower pace in an endurance race but conserving tires, you will let the idiots ruin theirs and pit early allowing you to gain some distance back on them and take a huge lead so that when you pit you can kill them in the final stretch of the endurance using all the tire rubber you want to plow ahead..
 
BradKinder
Not true. the difference just isn't as extreme as you might think it is. Soft tires might get you 10 good laps while mediums would get you 12 and hards would get you 13. Mediums are designed for the bulk of a long race when you are mostly trying to drive efficiently. Softs are best for the beginning if you want to try to move up quickly at the start. Hards are best if you need a set of tires that will last just a little longer than softs and mediums. It matters in close endurance races after things get messy.
Click to expand...

The problem is, PD really failed with the grip level each compound delivers.

With a racing hard tire, Im usually 5-10 seconds per lap slower then with a racing soft at normal race tracks while using a group C car. For me, it makes no sense to use a hard tire compound with such cars because eventhough it lasts 3-5 laps longer, I will definitly make up that time with the faster soft tire.The only car were such differences are very small like in RL is a FGT.
At rain, Im ALWAYS faster with racing softs then with a real rain tire, also they last much longer and give better traction.

Did those guys even play this game before selling it? How can it be that nobody noticed that a soft slick tire is much better in rain than a rain tire.
 
BradKinder
Not true. the difference just isn't as extreme as you might think it is. Soft tires might get you 10 good laps while mediums would get you 12 and hards would get you 13. Mediums are designed for the bulk of a long race when you are mostly trying to drive efficiently. Softs are best for the beginning if you want to try to move up quickly at the start. Hards are best if you need a set of tires that will last just a little longer than softs and mediums. It matters in close endurance races after things get messy.
Click to expand...

Nope real slick softs provide 50% less durability than hard slicks.

So if it's your efficient , your softs can make it to lap 15 and hards to lap 23

Especifically Ferrari F1's , but if your stupid about getting unrealistic hardcore suspension grip then it will wear a lot quicker depending on how hardcore it is but for those people I recommend turning off the tyre wear.(these are the complaint that made the update so I'm just answering it straight up).

But in gt5 they now wear the same since the update a couple of months ago.
 
I like it like this.

Tire strategy won't work in GT because GT isn't complex enough. You'd change compounds because the track heats/cools over the course of the day. There are cases where Soft tires are slower than hard because they overheat and destroy themselves. It's not possible in GT.

The tires in GT to me are just different types of performance classes that aren't designed to be used against each other. I would prefer realistic tire modeling, but the tires would need to be completely redone.

Basically

Real tires > What's in GT5 > What's in past GT games.
 
Tyres last far too long. Comfort soft should be good for about 5 laps tops
 
alonsof1fan91
The problem is, PD really failed with the grip level each compound delivers.

With a racing hard tire, Im usually 5-10 seconds per lap slower then with a racing soft at normal race tracks while using a group C car. For me, it makes no sense to use a hard tire compound with such cars because eventhough it lasts 3-5 laps longer, I will definitly make up that time with the faster soft tire.The only car were such differences are very small like in RL is a FGT.
At rain, Im ALWAYS faster with racing softs then with a real rain tire, also they last much longer and give better traction.

Did those guys even play this game before selling it? How can it be that nobody noticed that a soft slick tire is much better in rain than a rain tire.
Click to expand...

Hards are for the situation where you are nearing the end of a race, and softs or mediums will likely force you to pit with 1 or 2 laps left in the race. So you go with hards and save the time you would be sitting in the pits... Maybe some courses a pitstop is quick enough that this wouldn't apply, but I think if you're paying attention to your tire wear it's a safe to go with the hards if you need those extra couple laps at the end.
 
Exorcet
I like it like this.

Tire strategy won't work in GT because GT isn't complex enough. You'd change compounds because the track heats/cools over the course of the day. There are cases where Soft tires are slower than hard because they overheat and destroy themselves. It's not possible in GT.

Basically

Real tires > What's in GT5 > What's in past GT games.
Click to expand...

Exactly. And even if GT5 did emulate all kinds of physics regarding tire performance in differing conditions and suspensions... there's still just 3 different racing tires to choose from. Whatever their label, it's still just 3 different options where in real life there are many.
 
Type S Tony
What I find weird is how racing softs have awesome grip in the rain, Dont have much experiance with this IRL but im fairly sure this shouldnt be the case.
Click to expand...

Soft tires heat up quicker (IRL) than harder ones. Since rain tends to cool the track, a softer tire is theoretically gonna do the best job in rain, although other factors also come into play in real-life. The game of course tends to simplify all this.
 
Parnelli Bone
Soft tires heat up quicker (IRL) than harder ones. Since rain tends to cool the track, a softer tire is theoretically gonna do the best job in rain, although other factors also come into play in real-life. The game of course tends to simplify all this.
Click to expand...

It was found earlier that the 'grip reduction' setting, for wet and edge conditions is set to 'low' in the campaign mode. If you turn this setting to 'real' online or in practice, the racing soft tires will no longer out handle the rain tires in the rain. In fact, the racing tire will do nothing but hydroplane everywhere, impossible to work with.
 
Eg, sorry I edited you Exorcet. You're right in that the different tires are kind of like different performance classes. Especially for short races. But in endurance races, you can alter the game using different tire types in a beneficial way, rarely... It's just something that won't come up for the casual gamer.

I have been using medium tires in the middle of my online endurance races (I play with a group of about 10 people and we do around three 60-90 minute races a week) and I have won using this strategy. I usually start with softs, then go to mediums if I believe I can use them all the way without taking any damage. I keep track of how far I can get on the softs, then the mediums... Then near the end of the race I have to make a judgement call about what I want to end the race with. I have not actually used hards in one of these races yet, but only because I haven't needed the extra life out of the tires. I do expect that it may come in handy at some point. I will continue to run softs only when damage is something to worry about, since when you get damaged you need to pit anyways... So might as well go with softs since the race is getting ugly.

Basically, if you're getting the most out of GT5 by playing in simulation mode (IE one hour+ long races with skid recovery force disabled, heavy damage on, and penalties off) ...you will make use of the different tires. In short races, you'd might as well go with softs because everyone is going to be going all balls out the whole race and pit stops will hardly be an issue. Obviously, if people are going to race and have their tires only wear out one or two times, you're going to want racing soft tires the entire race.
 
People are still actually defending PD about this??? Mindboggling.
 
Zenkat
It was found earlier that the 'grip reduction' setting, for wet and edge conditions is set to 'low' in the campaign mode. If you turn this setting to 'real' online or in practice, the racing soft tires will no longer out handle the rain tires in the rain. In fact, the racing tire will do nothing but hydroplane everywhere, impossible to work with.
Click to expand...

Ah, that's interesting.
 
you know, after thinking further... Perhaps the only use of less-than-soft tires is the final pit stop you plan to make in a race. Hmmmmmmmmmmm. I think I'll try this out... Next race I run I'll go softs tbe whole way until a final pitstop where I need exra laps. I should crunch the numbers, but that would mean work and work sucks. :P. What do you think, GTPeople? Other than "soft tires are faster for time trials"
 
Can't speak much for A-Spec, but when I endurance race online, I've never felt like there was a choice. I just use the softest leagal tire in a race. Pit time included, I'm definitely faster on softs.

You brought up a great before that there are only 3 tire compounds in GT. I agree, we need more before we have any meaningful pit strategies, along with track temperature, etc. Even in the old games, just take race mediums, the softs wouldn't last long enough to catch you. The hards would be too slow. I made a post in some other thread and came up with an idea using 5-9 tire compounds. I think that would make tires much more interesting.
 
I think 5-9 tyre compounds is just overkill, 3 racing compounds I think is fine. I also think that the 3 Racing compounds in GT5 need adjusting. The comfort and sports tyres are however fantastic.
 
Zenkat
It was found earlier that the 'grip reduction' setting, for wet and edge conditions is set to 'low' in the campaign mode. If you turn this setting to 'real' online or in practice, the racing soft tires will no longer out handle the rain tires in the rain. In fact, the racing tire will do nothing but hydroplane everywhere, impossible to work with.
Click to expand...
Very true. I tried driving a Shelby Cobra in a online Nurburgring/rain race last night and even at 30mph with 1/4 throttle I was getting massive wheelspin. I put on the rain tires and I was lapping like normal.

That's yet another thing that makes A-spec feel like a casualized mess.
 
With Real grip reduction, you can't even drive in full wet condition with sports tires. If you don't have rain race tires, you need to throw some comforts on for the tread.

Oh for the folks at PD to learn the value of options in a video game... on the one hand they tend to have a few good ones, but then they forget some so obvious things, like defaulting to aids off, or AI difficulty or using more realism settings for A-Spec.
 
It started when I took my RM TVR out for practice on the Nurb weather/time change track, No aids Except ABS 1, started of fine with RS & then the rain started but the cars grip seemed uneffected, found it odd that I could still take corners at the same speed I normally would without spinning out.

Gonna try out the grip reduction settings tonight, cant belive I didnt realise it earlier, thanks for the info guys.
 
alonsof1fan91
At rain, Im ALWAYS faster with racing softs then with a real rain tire, also they last much longer and give better traction.

Did those guys even play this game before selling it? How can it be that nobody noticed that a soft slick tire is much better in rain than a rain tire.
Click to expand...

That's just craziness... I haven't done much rain driving but there are some serious holes in the tyre modelling system if you can even so much as get around a lap in the rain on a slick tyre.

This is what really happens when you try and drive a wet track on slick tyres... :).

 
^^ Wow total carnage LOL
 
CarreraGT
That's just craziness... I haven't done much rain driving but there are some serious holes in the tyre modelling system if you can even so much as get around a lap in the rain on a slick tyre.

This is what really happens when you try and drive a wet track on slick tyres... :).

Click to expand...


but its true , even in GT5 with the rain fixed

But if its weather change without fixed its there's not really 6 mm of water on the road , but overtime even without rain fixed it can get up to 6 mm of water

you need wets once you reach over 4 mm of water on the road

also known as "aquaplanning" because even if the wet tyres are for the 5 mm water stacking on the road its still very hard.


anything that goes almost 2 mm or over would need intermediates

other than that slicks :)
 
BradKinder
you know, after thinking further... Perhaps the only use of less-than-soft tires is the final pit stop you plan to make in a race. Hmmmmmmmmmmm. I think I'll try this out... Next race I run I'll go softs tbe whole way until a final pitstop where I need exra laps. I should crunch the numbers, but that would mean work and work sucks. :P. What do you think, GTPeople? Other than "soft tires are faster for time trials"
Click to expand...

There's many options for race strategies for long distance racing online


If you use hards at the start , for sure you can push your next pit stop further

but if you have softs at the start , you can also be ahead of most people if not everyone but usually people would go with soft

you dont want to get left behind because its quite challenging to overtake.

Its always important to be ahead of everyone , being behind of someone or most people can end up on a crash or usually slower pace.


I prefer heavy damage , ive tried it before and it really does make the pit stop strategies more realistic.


for example im driving through suzuka circuit with my F10 and (engine)crashes at lap 10/54 (300 km race like a real f1 gp race), that means I would need to pit stop for repair earlier but at the same time change my tyres , you would then have to choose hards now then on the 2nd pit stop you can change to softs to the finish line, or choose softs now and hards to the finish line. But also you have to have a very efficient set up because a hardcore grippy set up which almost everyone uses won't have efficiency on tyre wear other than that its all on how the driver saves the tyres.

But its very important to know that if you crash more than once its pretty much an instant podium loss due to a driver's error which is very realistic and artificial.


But the really most important thing is that if you are on a long distance race like endurance race online

the best thing is to be ahead of everybody

you can always change how you want to sort things out throughout the race but almost everybody would use softs at the start

the 3 compounds are the key ingredients in a race

you need to choose the best compound for the current conditions and momment.




But they really need to fix this tyre wear/durability.
 
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