Used Alfa Romeos

[f1redbull]

If you ask me, Alfas are undeniably great cars when working properly. However, they're not famous for their reliability. Are they actually unreliable or is that an outdated stereotype? Would buying a used 156 that's about 10 years old be risky?

 

[ExigeEvan]

honestjohn.co.uk has a few things to look out for

Worrying number of 2.0 litre engine failures due to oil starvation when engines were full of oil points a finger at oil pump failure.

Timing belt failures of 4 cylinder twin sparks extremely common. Need new belts and tensoners every 35k - 40k miles or every 4 years whichever comes first. See TSB to change them at 36k. Also need new waterpumps because pumps are driven by timing belts and if they fail the belt gets flung off. On 1.9JTDM and 2.4JTD timing belt drives waterpump and waterpump failure can fling it off in as little as 40k miles, wrecking the engine, so belts, tensioners, minot pulleys and waterpumps all need changing every 40k miles.

Problems with 156 Selaspeed gearbox actuator and long wait for replacement parts.

'Tappety' sounding engine sign that car has been run with low or dirty oil and variable valve timing has been damaged. Make sure engine has specified oil pressure.

Clonks from rear suspension mean that bolts through the aluminium suspension components have not been tightened periodically causing wear and replacement bushes take a long time to arrive.

Stoned glass headlight lenses cost £175 each to replace.

Take care to grease bonnet catch regularly as vulnerable to road spray and the safety catch can stick open. Bonnet may then fly open and wrap itself around the windscreem.

2.4 JTDs prone to cracking their alloy sumps on speed humps. Check for damage before buying, especially drain plug.

Seems to be a braking problem on diesels, which have a vacuum pump for the brake servo assistance: can feel like total failure of brakes, but only happens intermittently. Replacing master cylinder has cured it in some cases.

On 1.9 JTD if the engine smokes or the car suddenly loses power, the secondary butterflies of the swirl actuator valve may have sooted up and seized. Possible to clean but this does not guarantee it won't happen again. Really requires the inlet manifold to be changed as the part where the actuator connects to jams and does not let the butterflies open. Job can take six hours as the fuel pump and cam belt have to be removed to get at it. A coincedental fault is sooting up of the EGR valve.

Radiator, steering rack, and front wishbones all also commonly fail.

Clutch, clutch release bearing, and gearbox input shaft bearing also common failures.

Gonella Bros of Catford good 156 specialist.

Alfaman Services, 235 Imperial Drive, Rayners Lane, London HA2 7HE.

Alfa 156 steering rack issue: The bushes at each track rod end of the rack wear, producing a knocking noise over bumps. (Often confused with worn drop links or wishbone bearings.) Eventually, the steering reaction becomes sloppy. Fiat/Alfa don't supply the bushes separately, so a garage will typically recommend a rack replacement to solve the problem. Alfaman have a stock of steering rack bushes, which I think have been made by a local engineering company. Alfaman Services, 235 Imperial Drive, Rayners Lane, London HA2 7HE. Owners should contact them for a quote, replacing the bushes rather than the whole rack should save quite a lot of money. Typical rack replacement £400 + VAT.

 

[Dennisch]

The electricity parts are still dodgy. It's still funny to see the windshieldwipers go on when you try to open a electric window.

 

[homeforsummer]

If they've enjoyed a full service history and all the required work has been done, they're really no more risky than most cars. My brother had an engine go in his old 156, but it transpired that the previous owner had been using the wrong grade of oil. Other than that, his 156 was absolutely fine.

You just have to judge on individual condition. His subsequent BMW was much worse than his Alfa as it had lived a harder life.

Alfas don't seem to take abuse as well as maybe a Japanese car might, but that's just a hint to buy a nice example and then make sure you look after it properly...

 

[MatskiMonk]

My dads 156 timing belt let go at about 60,000* miles, £2000 rebuild that required small claims court action against Alfa Romeo in order for them to fix it.

*Can't remember exactley but was within the interval.

It's also crashed and banged over bumps for the last 5 or 6 years, despite many trips to the garage it still sounds like the front and back-ends have collapsed. And yes, electrics are a problem, as is interior build quality. To be fair, the outside has held up well, the paint still looks good, and there is no sign of rust yet, the car is a Y reg and is still on it's original exhaust system!

To be honest, I know there's a whole 'thing' about Alfa Romeo's and Petrol heads, but IMO they're not pretty, and I get nothing from driving it at all. The steering is way too light and I don't like the pedal box layout, the engine rev's impressively high, but the car feels so light at low speed, at maximum attack it must feel as sturdy as tissue paper. If you want something Italian and don't want to spend a truck load, I guess they are pretty good value for money these days, but I think you've really got to want it... is a 156 enough of a car to justify it...? The 156 was Alfa's attempt at a 3 series, and I think the 3 series would be a better bet in every way, If you wanted a 'truer' Alfa experience, what about something like a GTV?

edit: My dad, BTW, is a stickler for servicing, he bought the car from new, still has it, and never drove the car at even 60% maximum attack.

 

[homeforsummer]

And yet, my brother's E36 left him feeling completely cold, yet he loved the Alfa...

Trust me, it's entirely down to both personal preference and personal experience. If you have a bad'un - and they do exist, unfortunately - then your impressions will be totally tarnished by it. If you get a good'un, you'll love them for life.

My brother's was a half-way ground, a great example that went bang thanks to poor maintenance by the previous owner. It didn't rattle, it had no electronic issues, and it wasn't rusty (unlike his E36 of the same age, which looked like it had spent some time at the bottom of the ocean).

Incidentally, re: the timing belt thing - most Alfa owners know you have to change them at about half of what's specified in the manual. Yes, that's an expensive inconvenience, but far less so than having pistons meet valves. I think Alfa even revised their timing belt change times half way through 156 production.

Personal preference here, but given the choice of a late E36 (which are rusty and have been thrashed) or early E46 (which by most accounts are a bit crap, especially compared to late E36s) versus the 156, I'd pick the Alfa.

Of course, the best 156s to get from a reliability standpoint are the facelifted cars, which used new JTS and JTDm engines. They're not only a bargain these days, but they still look thousands more expensive than they actually cost, mostly because most customers bought them in Lusso trim with leather, climate control and nice alloys.

 

[JJ72]

fixing an alfa is part of the ownership experience.

 

[MatskiMonk]

And yet, my brother's E36 left him feeling completely cold, yet he loved the Alfa...

Trust me, it's entirely down to both personal preference and personal experience. If you have a bad'un - and they do exist, unfortunately - then your impressions will be totally tarnished by it. If you get a good'un, you'll love them for life.

Given that my Dad bought the car brand new, the concept of getting a bad one doesn't really sit that well. It was (and still is) dealer serviced, and at no stage was the timing belt service interval ever bought into question, until piston met valve.

To be honest my biggest issue, would be the one of using "undeniable greatness" as justification to put up with something that won't be particularly reliable, I just don't think the 156 is that great.

 

[TheCracker]

As i've stated in at least two other threads here over the years, both my dad and step brother had 156's. My dad's was a 1.8 Sportswagon owned from new as a company car. It was serviced as a company car but fairly well abused inbetween services. Never had any issues with it. Step brothers was a V6 saloon, bought second hand. Again abused and probably not that well serviced as it was purely a beater for getting too and from work. Never had anything go wrong on it.

I don't think they're any more or less unreliable than anything else. Especially not a 10 year old one which is likely to have over 100k on the clock by now.

 

[ExigeEvan]

My dads 156 timing belt let go at about 60,000* miles, £2000 rebuild that required small claims court action against Alfa Romeo in order for them to fix it.

*Can't remember exactley but was within the interval.

60,000 miles is generally too long for a timing belt on any car.

 

[Mike Rotch]

Can't see how common sense, homework and finding a good example (preferably one of the last year of manufacture ones) makes it any dodgier then a german example of the same vintage. Things go wrong in older cars, that's why the can be picked up for a song generally

 

[homeforsummer]

Given that my Dad bought the car brand new, the concept of getting a bad one doesn't really sit that well. It was (and still is) dealer serviced, and at no stage was the timing belt service interval ever bought into question, until piston met valve.

To be honest my biggest issue, would be the one of using "undeniable greatness" as justification to put up with something that won't be particularly reliable, I just don't think the 156 is that great.

My point was that there are good ones and bad ones, just as there are with any car. The reputation Alfas have far outweighs the reality, particularly since about the late 1990s.

And I'm not sure why you think buying brand new makes any difference. Every car is brand new at some point and you still get duds...

You're also the only one (OP aside) mentioning "undeniable greatness" - not the rest of us. Worth remembering that Top Gear isn't the be-all and end-all of being a petrolhead, and Alfas have meaning far beyond TG saying that every petrolhead should own one...

 

[MatskiMonk]

And I'm not sure why you think buying brand new makes any difference. Every car is brand new at some point and you still get duds...

To get a car, from new, that is well maintained, and not abused, that has an engine rebuild within 3 years, and then has consistent other recurring issues and faults, in the electrics, interior trim and suspension... points to a less than reliable car to me. If I buy a car with 180,000 miles on the clock, unseen, from eBay, for £1019 - which is exactley what I did with my car - then it would be unfair to make a judgement about whether or not it's a fundamentally reliable design of vehicle, becuase I've got no idea how it was treated by the previous owners... when you own a car from new, you know exactley how it's been treated and can expect it to last accordingly.

You're also the only one (OP aside) mentioning "undeniable greatness" - not the rest of us. Worth remembering that Top Gear isn't the be-all and end-all of being a petrolhead, and Alfas have meaning far beyond TG saying that every petrolhead should own one...

Yeah, silly me.. relating my post to the OP's original question! And I don't take anything TG say seriously at all, but it's obvious that the OP has picked up this idea from somewhere, so I thought I'd reference it, just in case.

 

[Enigma]

60,000 miles is generally too long for a timing belt on any car.

Not really, a lot of Fords are 100,000mls. My Peugeot 407 has the highest replacement milage I have ever seen at 160,000mls.

OT, Alfa 156 is not a good car imo, in my experiance they are pretty unreliable and parts are expensive.

 

[Denur]

I've got a 2005 Alfa GT 2.0 and so far have had very few issues. The biggest issue was a badly functioning actuator for opening the fuel valve. This had to be replaced, but was not very expensive. I have driven Alfa's since 1996 (2x 146 1.6L, 1x 158 1.8 and 1 x 156 SW 1.8), never big issues, just normal maintenance.

 

[Dennisch]

Not really, a lot of Fords are 100,000mls. My Peugeot 407 has the highest replacement milage I have ever seen at 160,000mls.

OT, Alfa 156 is not a good car imo, in my experiance they are pretty unreliable and parts are expensive.

Yeah sorry, but that just isn't true. 60000mls/100000km is about the highest you will find for a timing belt. Maybe you are confused with the belt for the altenator and stuff.

Omg, you are right. Just checked Autodata, and this is what it says for the 1.6hdi engine (2005-2009)

Peugot recommends:
Replacement every 144,000 miles or 10 years under normal conditions.
Replacement every 120,000 miles or 5 years under adverse conditions.

That's just wrong.

 

[homeforsummer]

To get a car, from new, that is well maintained, and not abused, that has an engine rebuild within 3 years, and then has consistent other recurring issues and faults, in the electrics, interior trim and suspension... points to a less than reliable example of a car to me

Fixed for accuracy.

One bad ownership experience does not point to a problem with the model as a whole. You can see just from ownership examples in this thread alone that it's clearly not a recurring problem.

The only unique-to-Alfas problem that applies to the 156 and that I've heard with any regularity is failures with the Selespeed automated-manual transmission. The solution to that one is pretty simple - don't buy a Selespeed if you can avoid it. It's just not a very good transmssion (correction: it's not bad, just not reliable enough to risk it).

Enigma: Are you sure with those sort of mileages you're not looking at timing chain adjustment, rather than belt replacement? Timing belts rarely have intervals much above 60k miles, and since they're made of a perishable substance (rubber) they're often advised to be changed based on age, as well as distance. Just like tyres, in that respect. You'd not drive around on 10 year old tyres even if they only had 5k miles on them... Upon further evidence...

 

[Dennisch]

The only unique-to-Alfas problem that applies to the 156 and that I've heard with any regularity is failures with the Selespeed automated-manual transmission. The solution to that one is pretty simple - don't buy a Selespeed if you can avoid it. It's just not a very good transmssion (correction: it's not bad, just not reliable enough to risk it).

That actually goes for every automated manual gearbox made in that era, Opels system is even worse. And slow. SLOW.

 

[Pupik]

Yeah sorry, but that just isn't true. 60000mls/100000km is about the highest you will find for a timing belt. Maybe you are confused with the belt for the altenator and stuff.

A lot of Japanese cars made since about 2000 or so suggest 90,000 miles (or 5-6 years) on a timing belt, although more of them are switching to timing chains. Even Dodge was doing it back in the Nineties, although I didn't chance it on my Neon, and had it done at 60k.

Accessory/alternator belts vary greatly, although usually, there's no set interval for replacement. Many modern drive belts (made of EPDM polymers) can last 60-100 miles, although sometimes they can be a little noisy as they wear.

 

[homeforsummer]

That actually goes for every automated manual gearbox made in that era, Opels system is even worse. And slow. SLOW.

The Alfa one is supposed to be decently quick, and even rev-matches on downchanges, but it just isn't very reliable. Every so often it forgets it's supposed to be a gearbox and gives you a box full of neutrals. Think it's a software problem.