Using illness to promote politics...

[Swift]

Nice post Swift, I agree with everything you just said.

On watching it, it makes me feel that with stem cell research denied by the opposing party this is how you will be for the forseable future as someone with parkinson's - which is untrue.

Thanks. I never thought the two of us would agree on anything...but I thought the same about Danoff at one point.

 

[Solid Fro]

Black, female, and disabled? Using Democrat's logic, she should have three times the moral authority than MJF.

 

[Swift]

Black, female, and disabled? Using Democrat's logic, she should have three times the moral authority than MJF.

Excellent point. 👍

 

[vladimir]

so the republicans are fighting back with the same methods by "using his disabled little sister" and suddenly its allright?

 

[Swift]

so the republicans are fighting back with the same methods by "using his disabled little sister" and suddenly its allright?

Actually, no. It's not "alright". But how else is he supposed to combat lies and deception? He didn't start that ball rolling, Cardin did and he's retaliating with the full story, not just a small sliver of what his views are.

Also, that ad brings to light that Michael Steele's family sufferes from genetic chronic diseases and that he is sympathatic towards people that are afflicted.

 

[vladimir]

fair point, i just wanted to make sure.


but as for not taking his medicine...abnormal movements are actually a side-effect of the medication:

http://www.neurosurgerytoday.org/what/patient_e/parkinsons.asp

Why isn't MJF taking his medications? Oh, yes, to give it a "dramatic" effect.

Silly me.

what do you say to that, viper zero?

maybe you shouldn't listen to rush limbaugh so much...


some more on the issue:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8lsjfjgAA8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvFlUJc2QW0&NR

i think limbaughs suggestions and impersonations are pitiful...

 

[ledhed]

You are both saying pretty much the same thing here. But I still think it's very weak. Now, if this would've been a non-partisan fund raising commercial(like for the children in India, etc) No problem! But he specifically used his "victimized" state to promote a specific political agenda. Not to mention that if anyone says, "MJF is lying" it automatically makes those people in support of chronic disease according to the media.

Parkinson's is very rough. But you know what else is rough? Huntington's disease. Not all that different from Alzheimer's. But you don't hear about that because no famous people have that disease yet. My fiancé's family does though. Can stem cell research help them? It looks very possible. And I'm all for curing all of the genetic diseases that nobody has control over. But parading people in front of a camera to say that "This person is against curing my disease" is just wrong and a lie.

Then there's the whole thing about Embryonic stem cell research being the worst of the current bunch. Causing tumors in experiments while adult stem cells and umbilical cord blood stem cells are showing incredible results.

Also, why does someone that's a "victim" get a free pass from the media when they make false statements?

AND told half truths about the opposing candidates position on stem cell research. There's the issue I have with MJF himself.

BINGO

For this reason and only this reason he should be attacked with the facts and flogged with them unmercifully , the fact that he actually Parkinson's and showed its effects to gain an edge...shouldn't be the issue and when you attack FOX for showing his Parkinson's you GIVE him even MORE impact and dilute your argument against the untruths and partial truths..

Thus he wins you lose .

And people will believe the bull poop .


Vlad Fox himself has said he doesn't take his meds to portray the effects of Parkinson's accurately.
I happen to work with a large population of elderly and disabled...I have personally seen the effects of the meds and am trained on what to look for as signals to bring to the attention of the medical staff when I among our large population of elderly and disabled all with some of the symptoms or with varied degree's of Parkinson's often combined with mental illness . The effect of drugs used to help control many mental illness also induce tremors as a side effect. Its the type and the degree that indicate abnormal or normal reactions to meds or someone who is off his meds.

Being that I have seen the commercials and also a Video interview the NEXT day CH2 Chicago , the one that has him commenting on his meds working fine. I can safely say IMO he was off his meds in the commercials for the campaigns or convenient/ inconveniently having a very bad day and if he was in our program I would have taken him to the doctor on call to be looked at ..

fair point, i just wanted to make sure.


but as for not taking his medicine...abnormal movements are actually a side-effect of the medication:

http://www.neurosurgerytoday.org/what/patient_e/parkinsons.asp


what do you say to that, viper zero?

maybe you shouldn't listen to rush Limbaugh so much...


some more on the issue:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8lsjfjgAA8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvFlUJc2QW0&NR

i think Limbaugh's suggestions and impersonations are pitiful...

Again....its Fox's disease , he can do what he wants with it and I support him and admire his courage.

What I don't support is the fact the ads don't tell the truth on the opposing sides commitment to stem cell research and tells blatant lies.

 

[Swift]

fair point, i just wanted to make sure.


but as for not taking his medicine...abnormal movements are actually a side-effect of the medication:

http://www.neurosurgerytoday.org/what/patient_e/parkinsons.asp


what do you say to that, viper zero?

maybe you shouldn't listen to rush limbaugh so much...

I already stated what I think on that particular issue. here:

Fox admiting to not taking drugs before a public appearance.

http://mfile.akamai.com/5020/wmv/rushlimb.download.akamai.com/5020/Video/Fox.asx

He does do it before public appearances. He's admited to it. So, can we get past that part please?

 

[vladimir]

I already stated what I think on that particular issue. here:


He does do it before public appearances. He's admited to it. So, can we get past that part please?

did you read my post? his abnormal movements are side effects of the medication! if he would not take his medication, he would have a hard time to even speak. you should read the text on parkinson's i linked.

oh and he did ONCE not take his medication, thats before he spoke in front of the senate. at least that is what he said and as long as you find other proof that stands.

 

[ledhed]

did you read my post? his abnormal movements are side effects of the medication! if he would not take his medication, he would have a hard time to even speak. you should read the text on Parkinson's i linked.

oh and he did ONCE not take his medication, thats before he spoke in front of the senate. at least that is what he said and as long as you find other proof that stands.

You sir are entirely wrong. One hundred and ten percent. I have seen the side effects of SOME of the treatment for Parkinson's . You do not even KNOW what his treatment regime is . So he may not even be on the meds that in 20 to 30 percent of the people taking the cause the symptoms you are so sure he exhibits.

Parkinson's disease is a progressive neurological disease that impacts a specific area of the brain. The cells in this area normally produce dopamine, a neurotransmitter that coordinates movement. The disease damages these nerve cells and consequently movement is disrupted.

Current therapy focuses on carefully managed medication and several promising surgical options.

What medications are available for the treatment of Parkinson's?
What surgical procedures can help Parkinson's patients?
How can physical therapy help me?
What medications are available for the treatment of Parkinson's?
The correct combination of Parkinson's medication is essential to moderating the symptoms of the disease.

The medications used to treat Parkinson's are primarily focused on increasing the amount of dopamine in the brain. Although most patients respond to medications initially, the effects usually wear off over time as the disease progresses. When a particular medication becomes less effective, dosage is either increased or medications are switched or added.

The following medications may be used to treat Parkinson's patients:

Levodopa: Levodopa helps increase the amount of dopamine within the brain. This can help improve symptoms of Parkinson's disease, particularly rigidity and slowness. Levodopa is usually combined with carbidopa, a medication that slows the breakdown of levodopa. This combination required medication every 4 to 6 hours in most patients.

Dopamine agonists: These drugs affect the brain in a way similar to dopamine. They may be administered singly early in Parkinson's disease, and in combination with other medications (like levodopa) later in the course of the disease. There is a possibility that these drugs slow the progression of Parkinson's disease.

Selegiline: Selegiline is usually given along with carbidopa/levodopa combinations. It interferes with the breakdown of dopamine in the brain.

COMT inhibitors: COMT inhibitors are taken with levodopa preparations. They help decrease the rate of breakdown of levodopa, so more is available to work in the brain.

Anticholinergics: These medications can decrease tremor and stiffness and improve muscle control.

Amantadine: Amantadine can help reduce stiffness and tremor and improve muscle control. Over time this medication can lose its effectiveness. However, new studies have suggested a possible neuroprotective effect of amantadine.

So whats he using Vlad ? Or in what combination ?


I already told you I have to be alert to the changes in Parkinson's patients ...here is why.

Parkinson’s Medications – An Overview
People with Parkinson’s disease often take a variety of medications in different doses in order to manage the symptoms of the disease. These factors, combined with the frequency with which one must take their medicines, can result in confusion. People with Parkinson’s and their caregivers should become familiar with their medications in order to use them most effectively and avoid possible interactions. Understanding a medication regime and sticking to it will provide the greatest benefit from the drug and avoid unpleasant “off” periods due to missed doses or confusion

Carbidopa/Levodopa (Sinemet®) Levodopa is a substance that is converted into dopamine by an enzyme in the brain. It is then released by brain cells and activates dopamine receptors allowing for normal function of the movement control centers of the brain. Forty years after its discovery, levodopa remains the most effective medication for Parkinson’s disease. In fact, 70 to 80 percent of treated Parkinson’s patients are on levodopa therapy. Levodopa is the “gold standard” by which all treatments for Parkinson’s are measured.

Levodopa combined with carbidopa (or Sinemet®) represented a significant improvement in the treatment of Parkinson's disease. The addition of carbidopa prevents levodopa from being converted into dopamine in the bloodstream, allowing more of it to get to the brain. Therefore, a smaller dose of levodopa is needed to treat symptoms. In addition, the nausea and vomiting often associated with levodopa treatment is greatly reduced by the presence of carbidopa. Unfortunately, with increased dosing and prolonged use of levodopa, patients experience other side-effects including dyskinesias (spontaneous, involuntary movements) and "on-off" periods when the medication will suddenly and unpredictably start or stop working.

Check with a doctor before taking any of the following to avoid possible interactions: antacids, anti-seizure drugs, anti-hypertensives, anti-depressants and high protein food.

Stalevo® (carbidopa, levodopa and entacapone) is a combination tablet for patients who experience end-of-dose "wearing-off." The tablet combines carbidopa/levodopa with entacapone. While carbidopa reduces the side effects of levodopa, entacapone extends the time levodopa is active in the brain (up to 10 percent longer). The same drugs that interact with carbidopa/levodopa and entacapone interact with Stalevo®.

I did mention that some with Parkinson also have a mental illness...in my program..

Medications and Treatments
Medications for Parkinson's
Click on the links below for information on each topic.


Parkinson’s Medications – An Overview

Over-the-Counter Medications

Managing Your Medications

Saving on Medications



Parkinson’s Medications – An Overview
People with Parkinson’s disease often take a variety of medications in different doses in order to manage the symptoms of the disease. These factors, combined with the frequency with which one must take their medicines, can result in confusion. People with Parkinson’s and their caregivers should become familiar with their medications in order to use them most effectively and avoid possible interactions. Understanding a medication regime and sticking to it will provide the greatest benefit from the drug and avoid unpleasant “off” periods due to missed doses or confusion.


This section of our website contains information about medications for Parkinson’s disease. Included is a table of Parkinson’s drugs, a section on over-the-counter medications, tips for administering drugs and hints to help you save money.


Please note that the side-effects listed in the tables that accompany each class of medication are the most commonly experienced. Not all patients will experience such side-effects. For many people who do experience side-effects, they can often be effectively limited or eliminated with careful adjustments to dosage or the timing of the individual doses. If any side-effects are experienced, speak to the treating physician immediately. For a complete description of each drug and its possible side-effects, please request a “package insert” from your pharmacist for each drug being used. It is recommended that all prescriptions be filled at the same pharmacy to avoid interactions between medications. Interactions can be dangerous and even life-threatening, so make sure the pharmacist knows of all medications and supplements being taken – including over-the-counter medications and supplements.

Although there are general guidelines that doctors use to choose a treatment regimen, each patient must be individually evaluated to determine which drug or combination of drugs is best for them. For some, a “first choice” drug might be one of the levodopa preparations, and for others, an initial prescription may be given for one of the agonists, an MAO inhibitor or an anticholinergic. The choice of drug treatment depends on many variables including symptom presentation, other concurrent health issues (and the medications being used to treat them) and a person’s age. And while the suggested starting dosages (as indicated by the package insert) are listed here, remember that they too can vary greatly depending on a person’s needs and metabolism.

Carbidopa/Levodopa (Sinemet®) Levodopa is a substance that is converted into dopamine by an enzyme in the brain. It is then released by brain cells and activates dopamine receptors allowing for normal function of the movement control centers of the brain. Forty years after its discovery, levodopa remains the most effective medication for Parkinson’s disease. In fact, 70 to 80 percent of treated Parkinson’s patients are on levodopa therapy. Levodopa is the “gold standard” by which all treatments for Parkinson’s are measured.

Levodopa combined with carbidopa (or Sinemet®) represented a significant improvement in the treatment of Parkinson's disease. The addition of carbidopa prevents levodopa from being converted into dopamine in the bloodstream, allowing more of it to get to the brain. Therefore, a smaller dose of levodopa is needed to treat symptoms. In addition, the nausea and vomiting often associated with levodopa treatment is greatly reduced by the presence of carbidopa. Unfortunately, with increased dosing and prolonged use of levodopa, patients experience other side-effects including dyskinesias (spontaneous, involuntary movements) and "on-off" periods when the medication will suddenly and unpredictably start or stop working.

Check with a doctor before taking any of the following to avoid possible interactions: antacids, anti-seizure drugs, anti-hypertensives, anti-depressants and high protein food.

Stalevo® (carbidopa, levodopa and entacapone) is a combination tablet for patients who experience end-of-dose "wearing-off." The tablet combines carbidopa/levodopa with entacapone. While carbidopa reduces the side effects of levodopa, entacapone extends the time levodopa is active in the brain (up to 10 percent longer). The same drugs that interact with carbidopa/levodopa and entacapone interact with Stalevo®.

Medication
Available Doses
Initial Dosing
Side Effects
Indications
Interactions

Carbidopa/

Levodopa

(Sinemet®)
10/100 mg

25/100 mg

50/200 mg
25/100 mg 2-3X/day
Low blood pressure, nausea, confusion, dyskinesia, dry mouth, dizziness
First course of treatment; converts to dopamine to manage major symptoms
Antacids, anti-seizure drugs, anti-hypertensives, anti-depressants, high protein food

Carbidopa/

Levodopa

controlled release

(Sinemet CR®)
10/100 mg

25/100 mg

50/200 mg
50/200 mg 2X/day
Low blood pressure, nausea, confusion, dyskinesia, dry mouth, dizziness
First course of treatment; converts to dopamine to manage major symptoms and may prolong effectiveness
Antacids, anti-seizure drugs, anti-hypertensives, anti-depressants, high protein food

Carbidopa/

Levodopa/

Entacapone

(Stalevo®)
12.5/50/200 mg

25/100/200 mg

37.5/150/200 mg
12.5/50/200 mg
Dyskinesia, nausea, diarrhea, hyperkinesia, abdominal pain, dizziness, harmless discoloration of urine, saliva and/or sweat
Secondary course of treatment; combines entacapone with levodopa/carbidopa to block COMT enzyme and prolong levodopa’s effectiveness
Same as levodopa/carbidopa, MAO inhibitors, Comtan, Sinemet, high doses (10 mg or more) of selegiline

Carbidopa/

Levodopa

Orally disintegrating tablet

(Parcopa®)
10/100 mg

25/100 mg

25/250 mg
25/100 mg 2-3X/day
Low blood pressure, nausea, confusion, dyskinesia, dry mouth, dizziness
First course of treatment; converts to dopamine to manage major symptoms; also for patients with swallowing difficulties
Antacids, anti-seizure drugs, anti-hypertensives, anti-depressants, high protein food



Dopamine agonists are drugs that stimulate the parts of the human brain that receive dopamine. In effect, the brain "thinks" it is receiving dopamine, so these drugs help satisfy the brain's need for dopamine. Dopamine agonists can be taken alone or in combination with medications containing levodopa. Agonists available in the United States include bromocriptine (Parlodel®), pergolide (Permax®), pramipexole (Mirapex®) and ropinirole (Requip®).

Consult a doctor before taking any of the following to avoid possible interactions: alcohol, anti-psychotics, medications that lower blood pressure, Navane® (thiothixene), Taractan® (chlorprothixene), Haldol® (haloperidol), Reglan® (metoclopramide), phenothiazines, thiozanthenes, cimetidine, phenothiazines, butyrophenones, Cipro® and benzodiazepines.

Anticholinergics (trihexyphenidyl, benztropine mesylate, procyclidine, etc.) do not act directly on the dopaminergic system. Instead they decrease the activity of another neurotransmitter that controls movement, called acetylcholine, to balance out the production of dopamine and acetylcholine. In general, mild PD that consists of tremor at rest can often be treated initially with anticholinergic agents. Adverse effects of these drugs include blurred vision, dry mouth and urinary retention. Anticholinergics may be contraindicated in older patients because they can cause confusion and hallucination.

Check with a doctor before using anticholinergics with anti-histamines, Haldol®, Thorazine®, Symmetrel®, Clozaril® and alcohol

Taking medications for Parkinson's disease is straightforward for most people during the first several years of treatment. The effect of each dose usually lasts well into the period after the next dose, and delaying a dose even by an hour does not disrupt the effective coverage of symptoms.

The situation is different for many people who have been taking Parkinson's medications for several years (usually five years or more). In these stages of the disease, effective relief from symptoms can depend on carefully following a regular schedule of medication doses. There are several ways for Parkinson's patients to achieve the greatest possible benefit from their medications. Since in the more advanced stages of Parkinson's disease the symptoms are often unpredictable and can fluctuate daily, it is important to take an active role in finding a routine that is tailor-made and makes the most of the medicine. A person should ask themselves how long it takes for a pill to work and how long its positive effects remain. Note if the pills should be taken with food, between meals or on an empty stomach and how it feels when medication starts to wear off. The answers to these questions can help explain how the pill works and possibly increase "on" time.

Organization is a key factor in getting the most from Parkinson's medications. Since several medications will probably be taken at different times of the day, a timing device can be crucial in avoiding missed doses. Talking systems, beeping watches and multi-alarm timers are widely available. These systems can be both discreet and loud, with vibrating and sound features. In addition, pill dispensers organize pills by day and time to eliminate carrying several large prescription bottles.

I hate the fact that the simpletons use the fact they are Doctors and support one sides argument , try to use a fact about some of the drugs to put out a simple sound bite " the meds caused it " .

Ummm huh sure they did...and Mr. Fox is broke and has stupid Doctors that cant adjust his meds so they don't have the bad side effects or are more effective ..given all the choices they have .

Do you want to learn more about the drugs ?

Let me know. But its safe to say that argument is a load of hooey...Unless of course you are Mr Fox's Doctor and you can say " yes this is his treatment schedule and yes it is showing signs of adverse effects and his meds are not as effective as they used to be " .

Ummm ..let me know when you get that consult .

While we are waiting we can always just look at how Mr. Fox appears at his " normal" press functions and when he needs to get things done VS. the commercials and use our own judgment to easily see a huge difference.


BYW I bolded the whole point the " experts " are trying to use to say its his meds...

 

[vladimir]

so since when are you better informed about his medication than he is himself?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8lsjfjgAA8

 

[Swift]

did you read my post? his abnormal movements are side effects of the medication! if he would not take his medication, he would have a hard time to even speak. you should read the text on parkinson's i linked.

oh and he did ONCE not take his medication, thats before he spoke in front of the senate. at least that is what he said and as long as you find other proof that stands.

Here's the problem. Now we don't know what is the "true" status of his condition because he's admited to not taking his meds and now you're saying that his appearance(very similar to when he didn't take his meds) is caused directly by his medication. So which is it? Either he needs his meds or he doesn't. I know Parkinsons' is a disease that gets worse with time and all that. And again, on that point, I trully feel for MJF. But how can we even have a clue as to what the truth is now knowing that he's willing to lie about other people and decieve the public with his condition?

 

[vladimir]

now hen did he lie?

all he did was appearing in public once, without taking his medication and afterwards he even said so. now, where is the lie here?

 

[Swift]

now hen did he lie?

all he did was appearing in public once, without taking his medication and afterwards he even said so. now, where is the lie here?

The lie is in what he said about Steele.

The deception is that we don't know if he's on his meds or off them. And yes, it matters. You said that his reactions were a side effect of the medication. He said that he does public appearences off his meds for the effect. So what was the case in this commercial?

 

[vladimir]

its not even deceiving is he appears in public without medication. actually it would be more deceiving if he appeared in public under the influence of medication because that wouldn't show what parkinson looks like.

considering that he talks so openly about the one time when he went public without medication i think you can trust himself when he says he was using his medication when the ad was run. not that it matters because in the end its irrelevant whether he takes it or not.

i find it pitiful that people suggest that someone who suffers from parkinson's would deceive the public by showing what parkinson's looks like...

 

[Swift]

its not even deceiving is he appears in public without medication. actually it would be more deceiving if he appeared in public under the influence of medication because that wouldn't show what parkinson looks like.

considering that he talks so openly about the one time when he went public without medication i think you can trust himself when he says he was using his medication when the ad was run. not that it matters because in the end its irrelevant whether he takes it or not.

It does when you say that certain people WANT you to stay that way and don't support research to help you.

i find it pitiful that people suggest that someone who suffers from parkinson's would deceive the public by showing what parkinson's looks like...

I find it pitiful that someone with parkinsons' would use their condition for a specific political agenda. Democrat or republican.

 

[ledhed]

so since when are you better informed about his medication than he is himself?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8lsjfjgAA8

If I could watch something that would make me have greater respect and admiration for an Individual and for what he stands for ...I cant name it.
The guy is dead on.

Unfortunately his ads are still misleading and need to be countered and he is fair game to being criticised because he chose of his own fee will to endorse them...and he is very well educated on the subject so he has no excuse.

His explaination of his meds satisfies me perfectly that at this point in his condition he is declining and I know and have seen exactly what he describes ..although never in the extremes he seems to exibit....but like he says its different for everyone. I won't argue it and stand corrected .



Swift please help me understand you ..but why ?

How is it different when people with breast cancer campaign ? Or the Jerry lewis telathon brings on all the kids ?
He feels ALL avenues of research should be explored...so do the Democrats for the most part ...so he has every right as an AMERICAN to campaign for them .

Your saying he lost that right because he is sick ?

I suggest you go back to the link to video interview and really listen to what he has to say .

Then we can ignore the fact he's sick and concentrate on the substance of his message and debate the true facts of who is right involving research insead of arguing about Fox and ignoring the substance of the issue that is research .

 

[Swift]

Swift please help me understand you ..but why ?

How is it different when people with breast cancer campaign ? Or the Jerry lewis telathon brings on all the kids ?
He feels ALL avenues of research should be explored...so do the Democrats for the most part ...so he has every right as an AMERICAN to campaign for them .

Your saying he lost that right because he is sick ?

I suggest you go back to the link to video interview and really listen to what he has to say .

Then we can ignore the fact he's sick and concentrate on the substance of his message and debate the true facts of who is right involving research insead of arguing about Fox and ignoring the substance of the issue that is research .

It's different because they are raising money for their specific foundations to STOP the very situation they are presenting. MJF is not try to raise money or spread knowledge of the disease. He's trying to get somebody elected with a radically biased, misinformed, misguided, misleading advertisement. That's just not cool.

 

[ledhed]

He's trying to get somebody elected with a radically biased, misinformed, misguided, misleading advertisement. That's just not cool.

Righto......so concentrate on THAT aspect and ignore the fact he has parkinsons...or you are playing into the exact trap those that prepared the ad intended. Obscure the facts with arguments over the appearance of the ad lends credence to the ads message and lends it a measure of truth it doesn't deserve . By defualt if you argue that " Fox is a cripple its not fair " you are saying the message he is spreading is true .

 

[Solid Fro]

MJF admits to not knowing about Missouri's stem cell amendment:

http://hotair.com/archives/2006/10/...s-not-reviewed-missouris-stem-cell-amendment/

Let me get this straight. The Democrats spent millions of dollars of airtime to show a disabled man who doesn't live in Missouri nor know anything about Missouri's election attack wrongfully the Republican candidate and the President of the United States.

Game, set, match.

 

[Swift]

Righto......so concentrate on THAT aspect and ignore the fact he has parkinsons...or you are playing into the exact trap those that prepared the ad intended. Obscure the facts with arguments over the appearance of the ad lends credence to the ads message and lends it a measure of truth it doesn't deserve . By defualt if you argue that " Fox is a cripple its not fair " you are saying the message he is spreading is true .

I can see what you're saying here. But I think that his "condition" is a big part of the ad. For the sheer fact that if he didn't have the "condition" then he wouldn't be in the add. I'm sure they could've found someone diagnosed with Parkinson's that was in a less advanced state to do the ad. But they got MJF for two reason. 1) He's a public figure that almost everyone recognizes 2) He'll look really uncomfortable on camera. So what that means is that his lies would be ignored due to that FACT that he has Parkinson's. That's why I talk about his condition in relationship to the ads.

MJF admits to not knowing about Missouri's stem cell amendment:

http://hotair.com/archives/2006/10/...s-not-reviewed-missouris-stem-cell-amendment/

Let me get this straight. The Democrats spent millions of dollars of airtime to show a disabled man who doesn't live in Missouri nor know anything about Missouri's election attack wrongfully the Republican candidate and the President of the United States.

Game, set, match.

Well said.

Now, if enough people get the information that MJF didn't know jack about the bill that the democrat is supporting, it may actually do some good.

The bad part about lies is that if you can keep up the shurade until after the election, it doesn't matter. Also, people tend to forget things from election to election. Oh well...

 

[ledhed]

I can see what you're saying here. But I think that his "condition" is a big part of the ad. For the sheer fact that if he didn't have the "condition" then he wouldn't be in the add. I'm sure they could've found someone diagnosed with Parkinson's that was in a less advanced state to do the ad. But they got MJF for two reason. 1) He's a public figure that almost everyone recognizes 2) He'll look really uncomfortable on camera. So what that means is that his lies would be ignored due to that FACT that he has Parkinson's. That's why I talk about his condition in relationship to the ads.




Well said.

Now, if enough people get the information that MJF didn't know jack about the bill that the democrat is supporting, it may actually do some good.

The bad part about lies is that if you can keep up the shurade until after the election, it doesn't matter. Also, people tend to forget things from election to election. Oh well...

Swift they want to sell something to the voters..you expect any less ?
Be realistic .

 

[Swift]

Swift they want to sell something to the voters..you expect any less ?
Be realistic .

If it's unrealistic to expect people to not tell outright lies when promoting their political ideas, then I'm unrealistic and will not vote for that person.

 

[ledhed]

If it's unrealistic to expect people to not tell outright lies when promoting their political ideas, then I'm unrealistic and will not vote for that person.

Excactly....but unfortunately not many people will take the time to look for the truth..they will say the OTHER side is just lying because they already decided they want to vote for the same people Fox endorses because he's a nice guy and they are as dumb as dirt ..

One of the first things you learn in marketing is that people are lazy and stupid and want to be lead to believe something....SAD but true .

 

[Tornado]

If it's unrealistic to expect people to not tell outright lies when promoting their political ideas, then I'm unrealistic and will not vote for that person.

Both sides of the political spectrum do just that, however. They don't call it lies though. That's a dirty word. They call it not telling the whole story.

 

[Swift]

Both sides of the political spectrum do just that, however. They don't call it lies though. That's a dirty word. They call it not telling the whole story.

Correct. I'm not condoning it from anyone. But the trend seems to be: Put victim on camera, have them say ANYTHING, if they are refuted call them a hater, racist, prejudice, unfeeling, uncaring, etc. No matter how outlandish that victims lies are.

There again, is my problem with the reaction that the "left" had to people like Rush Limbaugh and others. They told it how it was and now Rush is a bum. Forget that fact that MJF is telling lies and doesn't take his meds on purpose. Yeah, forget that and just focus on the fact that a victim of a disease is getting called on what he said. 👎

 

[Tornado]

There again, is my problem with the reaction that the "left" had to people like Rush Limbaugh and others. They told it how it was and now Rush is a bum. Forget that fact that MJF is telling lies and doesn't take his meds on purpose. Yeah, forget that and just focus on the fact that a victim of a disease is getting called on what he said. 👎

I'm okay with the fact that Rush criticised the actual point of the ad. That I can understand and agree with as it is true. What I do not and will not condone is what Rush did to get his point across. Rush mocking MJF as if MJF was intentionally not taking his meds (which has been established as false) was just cruel and just a stupid thing to do.
The "left's" reaction to Rush in particular may have been politically biased, but what Rush did was uncalled for regardless of any political views relavent to the ad. While it true that MJF was being perhaps led on (or otherwise), what Rush did was essentially what MJF did, only in the other direction and worse and if MJF deserves backlash from this ad than Rush deserves just as much or more for mocking MJF's integrity as a person.

 

[Swift]

I'm okay with the fact that Rush criticised the actual point of the ad. That I can understand and agree with as it is true. What I do not and will not condone is what Rush did to get his point across. Rush mocking MJF as if MJF was intentionally not taking his meds (which has been established as false) was just cruel and just a stupid thing to do.

It has been? I've seen him admit that the didn't take it before when he knew he was doing a public appearance. So, why not this time?

The "left's" reaction to Rush in particular may have been politically biased, but what Rush did was uncalled for regardless of any political views relavent to the ad. While it true that MJF was being perhaps led on (or otherwise), what Rush did was essentially what MJF did, only in the other direction and worse and if MJF deserves backlash from this ad than Rush deserves just as much or more for mocking MJF's integrity as a person.

So, the person that calls the liar a liar is worse then the liar? You do know that MJF had no clue what was on the bill in Missouri, right? That's part of his integrity right there.

 

[Tornado]

It has been? I've seen him admit that the didn't take it before when he knew he was doing a public appearance. So, why not this time?

Because he said he didn't. I know that is a flimsy defense, but why would he feel the need to lie about it after the ad is done? To save face? If so, from what? Is MJF the one running for office? I see no reason for MJF to push something of this initiative by misleading everybody to such an extent.

So, the person that calls the liar a liar is worse then the liar? You do know that MJF had no clue what was on the bill in Missouri, right? That's part of his integrity right there.

No, no, no. Not that part. The fact that Rush called him out on it is fine. I'm okay with that. The fact that he called him out by openly mocking him and his afflictions of his disease essentially means that him having the disease should prevent him from being able to make any public appearances at all, and that is just wrong, not to mention insensitive and cruel.
The fact that he was misleading them also may have been under his initiative, but I can't see why MJF would feel the need to perform something of this level. Why would he purposely support something that he didn't agree with? What I find more likely is that the makers of the ad misled MJF into thinking what they wanted him to think.

 

[ledhed]

Personally I am glad it opened up further debate on the subject . we tend to have collective ADD , when it comes to focusing on long term issues .