Using Wheel with a clutch makes you faster?!

  • Thread starter Thread starter Maccer_42
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T51R
I only care about the respect when it's someone who deserves it. I'm not a tuning god mate, i'm a gaming god. If only you knew the amount of things me and my friends have discovered on so many games. Besides, it's not I like I care about the big dogs here, as I know my next move will destroy them, releasing my tunes that match or better the current top times using your methods.

Nice job Maccer, I wonder how much more can be got with what I know.


Getting a good tune might be hard, running it is not. EG: i gave half a dozen tunes to one person the day they got GT5, they have beaten everyone with them online with fair ghosts.
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I see the problem now. 👍
 
Maccer_42
Well it seems so, using my G25 wheel, having it in H pattern mode kept in 1st gear keeping the clutch pressed in and releasing it at the same time as I press the throttle down for a timed RPM launch then shifting through the rest of the gears using the paddles I was able to get my RX-7 Spirit R to run this time.

No E-cheat was used
No SRF detune was used
No brake tricks was used

I don't have a video, just pictures of what I was able to get my RX-7 to run, this is the only car I have testing it so far. If you have a wheel with a clutch I'd recomend trying this yourself, If you don't will just have to take my word for it.

*snip*

Now I belive this is the "trick" T51R has been using to get some record braking times.
Now it's upto you as the comminity to decide is this "legit" in my opinion yes it is, real cars have a clutch. I see no way this could be labled as a cheat other than the fact it gives a dissadvantage to DS3 controller only users as there is no way this can be replicated with them.

Discuss your opinions on this find please.
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Nice find, but as other have said it means that people using a DS3 or a wheel without a clutch pedal are at a disadvantage. And they would be at an even greater disadvantage if they can't afford a wheel.
 
I agree it certainly is an unfair advantage that DS3 users will not be able to match times achived with a wheel + clutch. But this is true in all aspects of GT5 the wheel has always and will always be better and faster. It's really unfortunate the PD didn't include a built in online leaderboard for Speed test times that way the game would know if you used a wheel or DS3 or if SRF was on or off. Would have solved a lot of problems before they even started.

Now what i'm about to say most probably (certainly) isn't going to be of popular opinion.

As much as most of us here would like it, GT5 will never have an official drag racing mode, the game is getting old now and I doub't we will see many more significant updates come to GT5.

Since day one in this game the unofficial "official" mode to drag race was at indy road course, times and a leadboard were irrelivent it was all about head to head racing to see who had the faster tune (or the faster internet connection)
Then PD went and released the Speed Test pack that allowed you to time 1/4 mile runs (and several other distances) and drag racers though "finally we have what we wanted" Though that didn't turn out to be the case and people quickly learned what made for a fast online Indy tune didn't work so well in the Speed Test & visa versa.

Despite the fact that everyone knew this, Route X 1/4mile leaderboards were set up in a way to mirror what worked online as closely as possible, restricions were put in place and when people discovered new techniques to get faster times at Route X they were question with "does it work online?" and even with certain techniques discovered that did work online some of them were "banned" too if it was deemed too "unrealistic" such as the "E-Cheat". All these restrictions and "banned" techniques did was hold back the progression of finding out what is possible in terms of Route X 1/4 mile times (again) dispite the fact pretty much all serious GT5 drag races knew Route X times were meaningless for knowing what was possible online at Indy since it first released.

To this day I still don't understand why people use what works online at Indy as the yard stick to determine if a Route X time is "legit" or not.

As long as there is resctricions and "banned" techniques in place for a Route X 1/4 mile leaderboard there will always be people trying to submit times that don't follow the rules put in place while trying to fool others into thinking they have. And it's only a matter of time before another new technique gets discovered.
The ONLY way to avoid this would be to have no restrictions or banned techniques, allow people to use everything the can to set fast times, SRF and E-Cheat included.

Now I know some (or most) of you will say "but SRF and E-Cheat etc are too unrealistic", but come on.. Can seriously you tell your selfs that anything about GT5 drag racing is realistic in the first place? Because as far as I know none of it is close to realistic in terms of how the cars act to the tunes used.
For the sake of the GTP community we need to stop associating the rules for leaderboard submission with what works and is commonly done online at Indy. The longer it stays that way it will only be a matter of time before someone else comes along and submits a suspicious time and the speculation and petty bickering and arguments begin all over again.


*** Disclaimer ***

I'm not in anyway trying to discredit the hard work and time and effort dedicated Indy drag racers put in this game since day one, I will never know what it was like to part of that, and I certainly understand your frustration when people submit Route X times and claim to be "The fastest of all time" when it doesn't work online.
 
Maccer_42
Edit: It was the AC adapter that failed, just used one from a laptop pluged into my G25 and I have steering again :D happy days.
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Glad it was a easy fix!

Wow, you should be a politician.
 
Maccer_42
Well it seems so, using my G25 wheel, having it in H pattern mode kept in 1st gear keeping the clutch pressed in and releasing it at the same time as I press the throttle down for a timed RPM launch then shifting through the rest of the gears using the paddles I was able to get my RX-7 Spirit R to run this time.

No E-cheat was used
No SRF detune was used
No brake tricks was used

I don't have a video, just pictures of what I was able to get my RX-7 to run, this is the only car I have testing it so far. If you have a wheel with a clutch I'd recomend trying this yourself, If you don't will just have to take my word for it.

Now I belive this is the "trick" T51R has been using to get some record braking times.
Now it's upto you as the comminity to decide is this "legit" in my opinion yes it is, real cars have a clutch. I see no way this could be labled as a cheat other than the fact it gives a dissadvantage to DS3 controller only users as there is no way this can be replicated with them.

Discuss your opinions on this find please.
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This is very true.

But i have a G27 now and like before some people thought I was e-cheating with the clutch so yeah. But i would use the shifter and the clutch and shifter through the whole run. I just love having that capability.

With what you are doing it should be faster yeah.

Is T51R using a wheel with a clutch?
If he is i owe him a apology too.
 
Some things are frowned upon, some are not. I dont think that we should have to change our preferences on what is accepted. As of right now, we aren't outlawing things because "they arent realistic" per say, but because it strays away from the PURE TUNE. eCheating, retro launching, etc are all techniques used OUTSIDE of you tune do get faster times. If it isnt dependent such as pure shift point, it is considered foreign and frowned upon, something I am COMPLETELY fine with. The wheel is frowned upon because it is not a feature available to all users (in a sense of everyone not having one) as opposed to a ds3 (something NO ONE has an excuse NOT to have). It is unwritten rules like this that keep tunes as honest as possible in comparison to Indy. Contrary to recent comment and popular belief, there is in fact some correlation between ssrx and indy. if an 8 second ssrx lemans is racing a poorly tuned 9 second aventador, best believe that the difference will be visible at both locations. as far as cheats, very few cheats applicable at speed test are effective online and the ones that ARE can be identified when used.

My point is that even though it has been downplayed as of late, there IS in fact a correlation between speed test and indy. If alternative means of times at ssrx are kept to a minimum, or monitered and kept under control, there would be a better comparison between the two locations.

Come to think of it, I'll go ahead and say that ssrx online (indy as well if 2 of the same drivetrain/model are racing) can and are being used as a tool to verify tunes or identify alternative means of timing(ESPECIALLY if a time is eccentric).


There was in fact a time where there was no speed test and it was all settled on the track. That is something that should NEVER change and should be what drag racing on gt5 is about FIRST AND FOREMOST. I like the speed test and route x feature, but I cannot call someone a fast drag racer just because their times are eccentric without running them. Its cool to just see how low you can get your times, but that should be a completely separate category than those who tune to COMPETE and actually RACE their cars. Perhaps a ETA leaderboard for fastest times and a PURE ETA leaderboard for the times with no alternative means used. PURE ETA tunes will be put to the test online, and the ownere/ tuners would know and invite it. Im not saying the faster time should win everytime (an 8.912 BE vs an 8.909 BE is a toss up online of course and up to the tree), but the leaderboards have always been close and competitive and should still be if categorized. A tuner who races another KNOWS whether or not that car is legit to its claimed time.

Just my opinion/ rebuttal 👍
 
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Mr. Maccer I thank you, and I agree with you in everything. For those that can't enjoy the online experience they should make separate leaderboard with no restrictions, go ahead and do whatever it takes to get the fastest time possible without holding back at all, the times will be unrealistic but we are talking about a video game here and even thou the game is a real driving simulator is still just a video game. This will open a whole way to enjoy the game now that there won't be any pressure on trying your best to not cheat. As for the online players we will still tune for online races without any aid or cheat. Players that make times without holding back anything won't be able to win online due to the large amount of difference in the tune when raced without any aid or cheat, so if they wish to win the'll have to make a online tune for it. Also, if those offline full out tuners will like to race their tunes online then the creator of such lobby will have to specified on room title that the room is indeed a AIDS ON room that way players will know what they are getting into, now if a room don't specified that aids are indeed on then such players in the room have to warn/inform all incoming players about it that way we can have an agreement for the better online experience.
 
AKA I95
Mr. Maccer I thank you, and I agree with you in everything. For those that can't enjoy the online experience they should make separate leaderboard with no restrictions, go ahead and do whatever it takes to get the fastest time possible without holding back at all, the times will be unrealistic but we are talking about a video game here and even thou the game is a real driving simulator is still just a video game. This will open a whole way to enjoy the game now that there won't be any pressure on trying your best to not cheat. As for the online players we will still tune for online races without any aid or cheat. Players that make times without holding back anything won't be able to win online due to the large amount of difference in the tune when raced without any aid or cheat, so if they wish to win the'll have to make a online tune for it. Also, if those offline full out tuners will like to race their tunes online then the creator of such lobby will have to specified on room title that the room is indeed a AIDS ON room that way players will know what they are getting into, now if a room don't specified that aids are indeed on then such players in the room have to warn/inform all incoming players about it that way we can have an agreement for the better online experience.
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I like it.
 
Thank you AKA I95, You sumed up the point I was trying to make perfectly 👍 I tend to ramble on and repeat myself before I end up making a clear point :lol:

And agree with what you say too McLovin, especialy where you say "but I cannot call someone a fast drag racer just because their times are eccentric without running them"
If people want to claim to be fast drag racers they need to be able to prove it online, I personally wouldn't call my self a drag racer, if I was to lable what I do for this part of GT5 I would be a "drag tuner" at best, but more realisticly I consider myself a Speed Test tuner.

Maybe I over exaggerate the difference between Speed test and Online at Indy, but my point was that associating Online drag racing at Indy with the Speed test only prevents and holds back in finding out what is possible in terms of Speed test times as a community.
 
Yes, so to make this more clear, speed test tuners has nothing to do with online drag racers, they are a complete different category of GT5 players. With that said, all online players that claim times while drag racing such times aren't to be take in consideration, at online you would only be declare fast by only winning races not by claiming times. If any player wish to be claim fast by times then their times must be summited on the respected leaderboards. Oline racing and speed test times are no longer related. If a player wish to be called the ultimate fastes 1/4 and drag racer then it will have to own the top times on all drivetrains (AWD, RWD, MR, RR, FWD) as well have a winning strike of a 95% races won against all drag racing teams (good luck with that), that's the only way to claim to be the fastes overall and obtain The Ultimate Simulated Drag Racer, otherwise you could just be the best speed test time trial tuner or the fastest drag racer online, meanwhile just enjoy the best of both categories, have fun and happy tuning. :)
 
I like the current leaderboard and regulations but maybe open a 2nd one with no regulations on it. Do what you want. But keep one how it is now.
 
michrulejj
I like the current leaderboard and regulations but maybe open a 2nd one with no regulations on it. Do what you want. But keep one how it is now.
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Maybe times submitted with a wheel could have a footnote stating so ?

By the way, hows Agent_JK doing with the C63 for the "head to head" comp ?
 
michrulejj
I like the current leaderboard and regulations but maybe open a 2nd one with no regulations on it. Do what you want. But keep one how it is now.
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i agree with you, a separate leaderboard with no regulations yes and also for the restricted leaderboard on any outstanding time it will require proof of controller use, eithe ds3 or wheel, as for the times already posted as a humble request to the sumitter to specified witch controller was use for their times and to be noted on each time at the leaderboard, i know is a lot of work but it needs to be done to clear any shady confusions
 
Hummmm... If you guys mean separate as put a wheel with a clutch in a separate leaderboard with the e-cheaters and FF brakers then i completely disagree.

Reason (and not to sound like a jerk) having bought a wheel with a clutch doesn't mean you shouldn't be counted with the people with a wheel or controller without a clutch. It just makes no sense. I mean if everyone had the money they could get one so they will have the true simulation feeling that GT5 was meant to be seen as.
Like i said before I hate and i am not trying to sound like a jerk but it isn't our fault you don't have one.

And plus it isn't really some special capability that only a few people have (if you have the true simulation setup for this game). It isn't something that you necessarily tune for but is a technique sure but it is something you can do in real life. It shouldn't be found upon.
 
Lock2Lock
Hummmm... If you guys mean separate as put a wheel with a clutch in a separate leaderboard with the e-cheaters and FF brakers then i completely disagree.

Reason (and not to sound like a jerk) having bought a wheel with a clutch doesn't mean you shouldn't be counted with the people with a wheel or controller without a clutch. It just makes no sense. I mean if everyone had the money they could get one so they will have the true simulation feeling that GT5 was meant to be seen as.
Like i said before I hate and i am not trying to sound like a jerk but it isn't our fault you don't have one.

And plus it isn't really some special capability that only a few people have (if you have the true simulation setup for this game). It isn't something that you necessarily tune for but is a technique sure but it is something you can do in real life. It shouldn't be found upon.
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it dosnt matter that you can do it in real life at this point all people want is an even playing field. if i use my ds3 and you use your wheel and clutch i have no chance of beating your time reguardless of my tune. so its bs, badically if you spend $200 you can have faster times no matter what.
 
KTalloutdrags
it dosnt matter that you can do it in real life at this point all people want is an even playing field. if i use my ds3 and you use your wheel and clutch i have no chance of beating your time reguardless of my tune. so its bs, badically if you spend $200 you can have faster times no matter what.
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Well ok let's put it this way.

Recommend RX-7

If you are on a DS3 and i am on my G27 you should be faster than me just normal shifting. Reason i have to let off the throttle completely shift then slam the gas. You push a button and it does that fast if not faster than that four motion that i would have to do.

But if you are using the trick with slowly slipping the clutch in like Maccer_42 said yeah I guess yeah i get your point. But me i wouldn't really do that anyway (because let's be honest what clutch would survive that torture in real life)

I just in no way agree with separating the times by what controller you use in GENERAL.


If this is what's going to happen i will just stay away I mean it just seems like no fun or challenging anymore. Get what i mean
 
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Lock2Lock
Well ok let's put it this way.

Recommend RX-7

If you are on a DS3 and i am on my G27 you should be faster than me just normal shifting. Reason i have to let off the throttle completely shift then slam the gas. You push a button and it does that fast if not faster than that four motion that i would have to do.

But if you are using the trick with slowly slipping the clutch in like Maccer_42 said yeah I guess yeah i get your point. But me i wouldn't really do that anyway (because let's be honest what clutch would survive that torture in real life)

I just in no way agree with separating the times by what controller you use in GENERAL.

If this is what's going to happen i will just stay away I mean it just seems like no fun or challenging anymore. Get what i mean
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if there are no clutch tricks or other tricks i dont care. actually i can really care less anymore. the leaderboard is supposed to be a gage to test your tune, yet people must exploit it every way possible giving those who use ig as a gage for their pure tune a false time to go off of.
 
I think he is talking about the leaderboard. It is faster offline and you will get better leaderboard times than everyone else. Also maccer has proven wheel and clutch is faster offline.
 
michrulejj
I think he is talking about the leaderboard. It is faster offline and you will get better leaderboard times than everyone else. Also maccer has proven wheel and clutch is faster offline.
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Yeah but what he was talking about when using the clutch on take off then using the paddle shifters through the rest doesn't require the clutch to do all shifts.

So basically yeah that i guess you can say is a trick
 
using thw wheel with clutch or the ds3 will be specified and prove os use on both leaderboards, if you use the wheel admit it and it will posted on either leaderboard you made the time fo, now if you make an outstanding time and claim to use ds3 you will be require to prove it
 
Actually it does work online a buddy of mines tried it with the c7 also,treeing wouldn't matter either. For some reason the wheel helps cars pull harder I even seen it on gt academy.
Which was a very big total joke to me.
 
mazdaman
Actually it does work online a buddy of mines tried it with the c7 also,treeing wouldn't matter either. For some reason the wheel helps cars pull harder I even seen it on gt academy.
Which was a very big total joke to me.
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Hmm. Interesting.

What about cars like the ZZ, v8 vantage, supra, c5 Z06 etc. etc ... You get where I'm going. Lol.

Seems possible but it sure seems rough on a $200+ wheel. I know I can pop a vein and twist my controller having to focus on the ghost with just my hands. I can't imagine what my foot would be capable of lmao.
 

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