Very opinionated CSA thread!

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Renrag39

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Renrag39
@Baron Blitz Red
I get what you're saying in your last post, I really do but then take it the other way and you have train mode where you race on rails or at best, point it the right direction and watch the computer drive it round the track for you.
I just think CSA is a step too far, the only step too far and just because it's been done in other games doesn't justify it.
 
As a former CSA user, I am against it now. Sure I can put down better laps with this assist, and others, but it is more fun (for me at least) to actually have some sort of feeling of what the car is doing instead of just pushing a button down and doing unrealistic things with the car.

Yes it is just a game, but with out assists it does feel more real than a lot of the other games out there so why take this "Sim" racer and turn it into an arcade racer?
 
Think I will just watch this from the sidelines as the last thread about this turned into a train wreck!
images popcorn.jpg
 
I tried csa and asm on the nurburgring and on my first try i drove 11 seconds of my best time trial time with the Porsche lmp1 (from 5:50 to 5:39).

It seems quite powerful and as this is a competitive game it feels like it gives an unfair advantage. Also it seems like it gives more corner speed which causes more accidents if the car in front doesn't use it. Like when there is a corner you normally take in 3rd gear with those aids you can use 4th or even 5th gear, but if the car in front doesn't have it enabled they brake to soon and get hit.
 
Renrag39
@Baron Blitz Red
I get what you're saying in your last post, I really do but then take it the other way and you have train mode where you race on rails or at best, point it the right direction and watch the computer drive it round the track for you.
I just think CSA is a step too far, the only step too far and just because it's been done in other games doesn't justify it.
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In a way I do agree with you...

Back in GT6, when the Seasonal Super Laps were just starting out, there was the option known as SRF, and it was allowed to be used in those online challenges. After a while the complaints grew to a point where the advantages of that unrealistic aid couldn't be ignored any longer. That optional aid was just too strong and to level the playing field, it was dropped. And for good reason. I for one, wholeheartedly agreed with that decision. BUT, they still allowed "Assisted Steering", which in my mind did give an advantage, but not to the extent of SRF. Not even close. But an advantage all the same, and it was VERY popular if you followed the top 250 listings where more people used it than not. (Debatable and my opinion)

Now here in GT Sport, Assisted Steering has been renamed CSA. It is still an option. Will it go the way of SRF in GT6? Only time will tell.

It was a point of pride with me that I didn't use it in GT6, and thought it a feather in my cap for getting into the top 250 (on occasion) without it. But, I never said it was cheating. It was an option that I chose not to use.

I understand your point of view... I do. But PLEASE, don't call an available option cheating. Is it unfair? Quite possibly. Especially if you're a fast person who only uses it to get a leg up on the competition. Then it's not right. But if used properly, it can be used to make a race cleaner, avoiding the possible chaos that I'm sure we have both seen.

If it comes to the higher online competitions, like GT Academy for instance, then sure, I'll be right beside you in saying it shouldn't be used. That's really when drivers should drive with total equality. Who knows, it might be the same when the FIA competitions stop being only test seasons, and come out for real.

Cheers
 
ZnA1209
Because we need a new thread about this every week, right?

It's not going anywhere. This isn't a hardcore sim, Assetto Corsa is ----> that way.
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Maybe not, but it could at least be adjusted to have some sort of penalty.
Fwiw, the thread title is pretty clear, you didn't have to take a look and then moan about the subject being discussed. Oh, and that way-----> that's where my beer is. And the remote. :P
 
Baron Blitz Red
In a way I do agree with you...

Back in GT6, when the Seasonal Super Laps were just starting out, there was the option known as SRF, and it was allowed to be used in those online challenges. After a while the complaints grew to a point where the advantages of that unrealistic aid couldn't be ignored any longer. That optional aid was just too strong and to level the playing field, it was dropped. And for good reason. I for one, wholeheartedly agreed with that decision. BUT, they still allowed "Assisted Steering", which in my mind did give an advantage, but not to the extent of SRF. Not even close. But an advantage all the same, and it was VERY popular if you followed the top 250 listings where more people used it than not. (Debatable and my opinion)

Now here in GT Sport, Assisted Steering has been renamed CSA. It is still an option. Will it go the way of SRF in GT6? Only time will tell.

It was a point of pride with me that I didn't use it in GT6, and thought it a feather in my cap for getting into the top 250 (on occasion) without it. But, I never said it was cheating. It was an option that I chose not to use.

I understand your point of view... I do. But PLEASE, don't call an available option cheating. Is it unfair? Quite possibly. Especially if you're a fast person who only uses it to get a leg up on the competition. Then it's not right. But if used properly, it can be used to make a race cleaner, avoiding the possible chaos that I'm sure we have both seen.

If it comes to the higher online competitions, like GT Academy for instance, then sure, I'll be right beside you in saying it shouldn't be used. That's really when drivers should drive with total equality. Who knows, it might be the same when the FIA competitions stop being only test seasons, and come out for real.

Cheers
Click to expand...

The biggest part of CSA is that it makes driving with a pad easier to be fast compared to with a wheel.

If you want to disable it for wheel users, fine, but for pad users, it helps with the limited range of motion of the thumbsticks.

And I agree, quit calling an available aid "cheating".
 
@Baron Blitz Red
Cheating may be a bit harsh, but it certainly 'feels' like it at times.
I guess I'm a little butthurt over it, I'll admit it.
I'm not a great driver and I'll have to console myself with my little feather when someone technically worse than I hurls their car at the scenery and escapes with impunity.

Wanna know where I'm putting my feather? Uh huh, you guessed it, my hat! Oh yeah, looking mediocre!
 
ZnA1209
The biggest part of CSA is that it makes driving with a pad easier to be fast compared to with a wheel.

If you want to disable it for wheel users, fine, but for pad users, it helps with the limited range of motion of the thumbsticks.

And I agree, quit calling an available aid "cheating".
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It's easier to correct and control a slide with a pad over a wheel. Its just easier to avoid a slide altogether with a wheel by finer control. That's no excuse either way.
Already addressed the final point.
 
May I add my thoughts about CSA. We are playing a sim game and now we should compare it to real life racing. Where are the differences? The tracks are laser scanned. The Cars and their physics pretty much match real life handling. So far so good, BUT, one thing just isn’t simulated and that’s the physical feel of body roll and g-Force and that’s crucial because if the Force Feedback lacks Information like brakes blocking or under or oversteer and in which moment to react to a slide than it gets really difficult to exactly predict what the Car is actually doing. You can still try to listen to tire screech or in general play it more by just visually predict what’s happening but it’s a gamble sometimes and that’s sad. Maybe PD just thought ok, we don’t need to make the Force Feedback that Informative and instead we‘ll throw the casuals a sci-fi aid and we are good to go.
 
Time for me to chime in GT:Sport is far from a simulator, Assetto Corsa and PCars1 are both superior in the physics department, Trying to be the fastest on GT:Sport is like trying to win in the special Olympics, You'll still be special, Let people race and use whatever aids help them enjoy the game better, Not everybody is Ayrton Senna, So what if it closes the skill-gap a little isn't that kind of the idea to actually make it a more competitive game?
 
Why do people throw out PC2 and AC as evidence that GTS is not a sim? A simulator can be a simulator whether or not it the best simulator. 100% realism is almost impossible right now so they all suffer from that aspect.

Edit: I also havent found a race long enough for dynamic environments to matter either
 
If it helps you personally feel better that you're not using any assists then cool, but don't go thinking you're better than anyone else that uses them. When the actual ranked racing gets released for people to win real life things and possibly become something, if it's that important to GT academy (is it still called that?) that certain assists are turned off, I'm sure they'll force them off and at that time, the pack will separate. If they don't, then whatever aids they allowed must be part of real racing and they'll probably use them.
 
I use TCS 0/1 and CSA at weak.
I also drive with a DS4 using thumbsticks.

DR. A and SR. S

I've done comparisons - I can drive faster with TCS at 0, but it's hard to be consistent.
I can do the laps without CSA and it's not drastically different.

When I race, I typically put TCS at 1(for GR.3 cars only) - as I'm not setting top 10 alien times I generally find myself running in a group.
CSA at weak and TCS at 1 allow me to safely take driving lines that aren't optimal - maybe go 2 wide into sections of track etc without losing control of the car as easily.
It also helps keep me on the track if I get bumped.

Yes the CSA might not be a real world aid, but I also don't have the advantage of sitting in a real world seat receiving real world feedback of my car.
I also don't use a real world view as I'm driving in bumper cam.
I also have only been playing racing sims' seriously since this game came out - it has always been a goal to eventually have the assists off, and I've gradually been reducing my TCS down as it goes.

Sure, maybe there are some guys who I wouldn't beat if I didn't have CSA on weak - however, I don't understand the elitist attitude towards using assists.
Last I checked, there are private leagues that force no assists - we haven't seen a proper FIA race that isn't a test season - nobody is racing for anything other than pride at this point.

I hope to eventually have a wheel/seat setup - and I intend on having no assists on eventually, but today is not that day, not yet.
 
Sean Renon
I use TCS 0/1 and CSA at weak.
I also drive with a DS4 using thumbsticks.... I hope to eventually have a wheel/seat setup - and I intend on having no assists on eventually, but today is not that day, not yet.
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These are my exact sentiments. Well put!
 
That's ok I guess. I won't be racing you anyway, just the AI's ability to keep you in a straight line until it hopefully gets weakened.
 
How to make everyone happy:

- Keep CSA in the game for those who need to keep their car stable and promote clean racing

- Make CSA slightly slower to ultimate achievable pace than countersteering manually

If the GT gods had an answer to all our prayers and complaints about this topic I think that would be it.

The only people I can see opposing this change are the people that have not mastered countersteering manually and have used this and gained an advantage in GT sport and found pace they otherwise would not have, they would not want this taken away from them as they would see it as a threat to their pace. Finally, before someone comes in with the "but DS4" argument, you need to realise that the DS4 already has its own assists built into it to make it competitive with wheel users, it does not directly simulate a wheel (and the fastest DS4 user on GT sport uses only ABS, so it is not necessary for you to survive).
 
Tou2istTrophy
Lap times, leaderboards, YouTube, GT Academy rankings. I won't give away any names for privacy but not hard to find (Japanese).
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Laptimes and leaderboards don't say what controller is being used, so kind of difficult to validate your claim. Though if what you say is correct (I'm not doubting you), then it doesn't really say much for the usefulness of counter steer assist as far as times go, if people using it, can't beat the guy that doesn't use it.
 
Whaat does csa actually do?stop turning too far?
I currently win a couple of races a week and do alright without it.i might start using it now.
 

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