Vision GT after 12 years: Innovation or Disconnection? What’s the future of this Project?

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Tf you lookin at? If you think that the Jaguar or the Porche VGT are great in the dynamics of GT try to explain what’s your point. I’m not saying there are all usefull and ugly, but I would prefer other Concept car onestly.
You missed the point of my post by a country mile.
The way you word things often makes very little sense. It's like trying to read a Japanese instruction manual translated into Welsh. :dunce:


I agree with SOME of your premise, in the sense that I don't utilize many of the VGT's. The Bvlgari, Subaru, BMW, McLaren, and a few others are quite entertaining, and quite dynamic to drive. The Bvlgari is particularly surprising. Many of the others just don't do much for me. Most of the styling elements of the available VGT's are too far down the "space ship" route for my taste. I like cars, and I like space ships. I do NOT need them to be combined. My biggest gripe with a lot of the VGT's is the lack of customization (especially the EV's). I'm not against them existing in the game, as I'm sure there are enough users out there who are enjoying them, to facilitate their inclusion in GT7. However, I'm a tuner at heart. I like to fettle with my cars to get the most out of them. When you take that away some of my interest goes with it (sometimes). The same can be said for the vehicles with CVT's. You just can't do much with them, other than race them against each other. At the end of the day I'm a Gran Turismo fan (Been playing since GT1 when I was 17 years young...lol) so I am still trying to utilize them. I'm currently making a custom race with the CVT equipped vehicles to try and get some use out of them. We'll see how that pans out in the end.
 
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I don't like the hypercar/Gr.x/Gr1 style stuff
Honestly, I also prefer more "normal" cars. The McLaren is definitely cool, same as the Lamborghini, but personally, their design doesn't really captivate me.
I personally don't think that the no-interior ones should be allowed - supply your CAD for the whole thing or piss off - because it breaks the consistency of the vehicle list, but these are largely the oldest ones now.
This is definitely a valid point, something that should almost be taken for granted. Even though I actually like the Peugeot VGT aesthetically, because to me it recalls the brand's older concept cars, but as soon as I bought it and realized it had no interior, I sold it right away… unfortunately. I was really curious to see what the interior looked like, and when I found out I couldn’t even sit inside, it started bothering me just to look at it—the same goes for the Subaru.
Each one represents a collaboration between PD and a manufacturer that isn't simply a replication of something that already exists - which is what concept cars in the game were going back to the Copperhead - and I quite like that. With that said, I don't mind other concept cars being included either, but I do perceive them as being two different things.
Like you said earlier about EVs, it’s the brand that decides what to create—not PD limiting their creativity. That applies to both the engines and the design choices, and you’re absolutely right. Like you, I was fascinated when they first introduced the Vision project, mainly because I had memories of the older concept cars. A lot of the new ones really just reflect the current design language of the brands. Take Jaguar, for example—I don’t like their modern concepts at all, and that includes their Vision car. But with some of them, I still have mixed feelings… like the Genesis VGT. I actually think it’s beautiful, but with 870 hp it’s just insane. For me, that kind of **** ruins the car, it feels like driving a rocket. Compared to it, the Bugatti Veyron feels slow, and that’s simply wrong. I understand that some people might like it exactly as it is, but personally, I think with a few adjustments it could’ve been much better.
don't "feel" natural

That’s exactly how I feel.. Not so much because GT aspires to be a sim, but because it just doesn’t feel realistic, and that really bothers me. Maybe it’s Genesis’ fault, maybe it’s GT’s, but one thing is certain: it’s a great car only for showroom purposes, especially in the game.
You missed the point of my post by a country mile.
The way you word things often makes very little sense. It's like trying to read a Japanese instruction manual translated into Welsh. :dunce:


I agree with SOME of your premise, in the sense that I don't utilize many of the VGT's. The Bvlgari, Subaru, BMW, McLaren, and a few others are quite entertaining, and quite dynamic to drive. The Bvlgari is particularly surprising. Many of the others just don't do much for me. Most of the styling elements of the available VGT's are too far down the "space ship" route for my taste. I like cars, and I like space ships. I do NOT need them to be combined. My biggest gripe with a lot of the VGT's is the lack of customization (especially the EV's). I'm not against them existing in the game, as I'm sure there are enough users out there who are enjoying them, to facilitate their inclusion in GT7. However, I'm a tuner at heart. I like to fettle with my cars to get the most out of them. When you take that away some of my interest goes with it (sometimes). The same can be said for the vehicles with CVT's. You just can't do much with them, other than race them against each other. At the end of the day I'm a Gran Turismo fan (Been playing since GT1 when I was 17 years young...lol) so I am still trying to utilize them. I'm currently making a custom race with the CVT equipped vehicles to try and get some use out of them. We'll see how that pans out in the end.
I'm honestly sorry about that, you absolutely did the right, because I'm sure a lot of people feel the same way.
To be fair, translating my thoughts directly from Italian into English the way I naturally think them is really difficult… who knows how many times I've written things that ended up sounding like complete ********.

That said, I totally agree with everything you said. (It’s a point of view that’s quite similar to mine—maybe not exactly the same, but it still comes from someone who, like me even though I was younger, has been playing Gran Turismo since the very beginning. Hearing thoughts from other players who started with the first game really opens my mind to how much more potential GT still has to become even better… but that’s another conversation)

The Bvlgari VGT, like you said, is in my opinion one of the best cars to drive among the VGTs. It genuinely feels like driving a real car, not some imaginary car from the future. And in my opinion, if some of these cars were properly contextualized in specific events, we might actually find some pleasant surprises—like the Suzuki VGT Road Car, for example.
 
Silly as it sounds, my dislike for VGTs mostly just comes down to a "feel" thing. Compared to typical concept cars, VGTs feel less "organic" to me because they were designed specifically to fit a brief from Gran Turismo. It's like... instead of reflecting car culture, GT is trying to influence it in some way, and it seems a little pretentious.

I mostly just wish they did the GT2 thing and separated the "Special" vehicles from the normal production cars in the dealerships. The VGTs add a lot of clutter to the menus since I'm not really interested in them, especially in the cases where there are multiple variants of the same car.

Then again, I guess it's not insignificant that GT7 renamed the dealership area to "Brand Central", since some of the companies inside don't even have any vehicles for sale in the first place. VGT feels right at home as a branding exercise in this environment.

(Before anyone calls it out, I wasn't a fan of the Nike car in GT4, either.)
 
Compared to typical concept cars, VGTs feel less "organic" to me because they were designed specifically to fit a brief from Gran Turismo.
Not... particularly. The brief, as far as I understand it, was to design a "Gran Turismo" (a sporting two-door), but it's not exactly like the designers at the various manufacturers have been too diligent with that.

Some of the cars are literally existing concept cars from motor shows before they became VGTs, with a GT logo slapped on them, so not exactly far removed from "typical concept cars".
 
To be fair, you're also far from the only person who's previously thought that it is - which somewhat pushes into the idea I've floated before that really the only difference between a Vision GT car that has a real-world model (most of them; only a handful like the Infiniti, the original Peugeot VGT, and the Skoda do not) and a regular show concept is the GT logo.
Even PD fell for that mistake regarding the RX-Vision GT3, since it did have the VGT tag at launch.
 
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I’d like to know how many people still actually want Vision GT cars, how many, like me, believed in the project at first but are now very doubtful, and how many never wanted them at all..(?).
I don't want VGT cars anymore, I stopped wanting them after GT6 ended. It was a good idea at first, when manufacturers were close to the early philosophy of the project :

Capture d'écran 2025-07-23 095012.png


But Chaparral came, then Mazda (which was a mess to drive in GT6), then THREE stupid Dodge Tomahawk.... I expected Vision GT to come to an end with the arrival of GT Sport as it was presented as a celebration of the 15th anniversary of the Gran Turismo franchise. And here we are in 2025, celebrating the 12th anniversary of the 15th anniversary of Gran Turismo. lol

One could argue that this allows manufacturers to create a first link in order to land into the game. But where are Skoda Octavia or Fabia? Some dealerships at Brand Central are bloated with VGTs and their many variations.
I understand that some of them are of interest and very grounded design wise. Still they take up too much space for my taste, are expensive and often completely delirious in a bad way.

I sadly think they are now part of GT's legacy and will be there as long as the franchise lives. I would have preferred GT to rely on its own heritage, before GT6, rather than on this quirky thing.
 
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I don't want VGT cars anymore, I stopped wanting them after GT6 ended. It was a good idea at first, when manufacturers were close to the early philosophy of the project :

View attachment 1466888

But Chaparral came, then Mazda (which was a mess to drive in GT6), then THREE stupid Dodge Tomahawk.... I expected Vision GT to come to an end with the arrival of GT Sport as it was presented as a celebration of the 15th anniversary of the Gran Turismo franchise. And here we are in 2025, celebrating the 12th anniversary of the 15th anniversary of Gran Turismo. lol

One could argue that this allows manufacturers to create a first link in order to land into the game. But where are Skoda Octavia or Fabia? Some dealerships at Brand Central are bloated with VGTs and their many variations.
I understand that some of them are of interest and very grounded design wise. Still they take up too much space for my taste, are expensive and often completely delirious in a bad way.

I sadly think they are now part of GT's legacy and will be there as long as the franchise lives. I would have preferred GT to rely on its own heritage, before GT6, rather than on this quirky thing.
Exactly what I was expecting... Even though times have changed, I was sure we’d eventually see the introduction of “future GT legends,” much like what we saw with Tokyo–Geneva back in the day. It’s a different approach in terms of branding now, like @Famine said, but I really thought GT still carried that same vision of introducing prototypes the way they used to—prototypes that went on to become fan favorites. Like you said, once I saw the direction they were going in, I felt myself drifting away from the idea a bit. But I have to admit, there are still some pleasant surprises, and with a more realistic approach and better long-term context, I think some of these cars could actually have real potential.

Gs2V9Y9XgAAg7Hv.jpg-large.jpeg

If this really is the body of the new Xiaomi Vision, I’m honestly quite happy. It resembles the silhouette of the F40, and if it comes with a reasonably powered engine (even if it's a hybrid) I think it could be a great car. But the most important thing isn't just how good it looks, it's about making it feel special within the game. That means giving it believable opponents cars it can race against without completely destroying something like a modern Lamborghini or Ferrari without at least having to work for it.
 
Most of the VGTs are just virtual with a few exceptions.
It is, comfortably, the other way around.

Here are all of the virtual-only VGTs:

Daihatsu Copen RJ VGT
Honda Sports VGT
ItalDesign Exeneo
Lexus LF-LC GT
McLaren Ultimate VGT
MINI Clubman VGT
Peugeot L500/L750
Suzuki VGT
Volkswagen GTI Supersport VGT

Though the Audi was a twin of the very real e-tron VGT, Exeneo was derived from the real-world Parcour, LF-LC VGT from the real-world LF-LC, the McLaren Ultimate was subsequently commissioned as a 1:8 scale model for sale through Amalgam and, of course, was the basis for the Solus, the L500/L750 are a unique case that I hate a lot (more on this below), and the VW was based on the real Roadster from the previous year.

Here are all of the scale model-only VGTs:

Infiniti VGT
Peugeot VGT
Skoda VGT

ALL of the rest of them - 23 in total - have a full-size model, ranging from a painted clay buck (mostly) to a fully operational vehicle - exactly like all other concept cars as already pointed out in a previous post. That's 23:12 in favour of a real, full-size model - though I have excluded the one additional Audi and two additional Jaguar VGT derivatives from the 12 as they're identical to the originals (which have real-life models) bar a couple of details.

If you want to include all the Gr.1/Gr.3 models as additional non-real cars then it's closer to 50:50, but very much not "most of the VGTs are just virtual with a few exceptions".


As noted above, there are special cases too. There's a few cars that were existing concept cars - just regular stuff churned out by manufacturers every year - and just had a GT badge stuck on them for the VGT. That includes the BMW, the Mitsubishi, and the Subaru, which turned them from something you don't mind to something you think is a waste of time... somehow.

Annoyingly it also includes two that weren't even full-size ones: the Skoda, which was a 1:8 scale model presented a year before it arrived in the game, and the Peugeot L500 which was literally a virtual concept car that appeared almost 18 months before it arrived in the game and with no mention of GT anywhere until it did so.
 
It is, comfortably, the other way around.

Here are all of the virtual-only VGTs:

Daihatsu Copen RJ VGT
Honda Sports VGT
ItalDesign Exeneo
Lexus LF-LC GT
McLaren Ultimate VGT
MINI Clubman VGT
Peugeot L500/L750
Suzuki VGT
Volkswagen GTI Supersport VGT

Though the Audi was a twin of the very real e-tron VGT, Exeneo was derived from the real-world Parcour, LF-LC VGT from the real-world LF-LC, the McLaren Ultimate was subsequently commissioned as a 1:8 scale model for sale through Amalgam and, of course, was the basis for the Solus, the L500/L750 are a unique case that I hate a lot (more on this below), and the VW was based on the real Roadster from the previous year.

Here are all of the scale model-only VGTs:

Infiniti VGT
Peugeot VGT
Skoda VGT

ALL of the rest of them - 23 in total - have a full-size model, ranging from a painted clay buck (mostly) to a fully operational vehicle - exactly like all other concept cars as already pointed out in a previous post. That's 23:12 in favour of a real, full-size model - though I have excluded the one additional Audi and two additional Jaguar VGT derivatives from the 12 as they're identical to the originals (which have real-life models) bar a couple of details.

If you want to include all the Gr.1/Gr.3 models as additional non-real cars then it's closer to 50:50, but very much not "most of the VGTs are just virtual with a few exceptions".


As noted above, there are special cases too. There's a few cars that were existing concept cars - just regular stuff churned out by manufacturers every year - and just had a GT badge stuck on them for the VGT. That includes the BMW, the Mitsubishi, and the Subaru, which turned them from something you don't mind to something you think is a waste of time... somehow.

Annoyingly it also includes two that weren't even full-size ones: the Skoda, which was a 1:8 scale model presented a year before it arrived in the game, and the Peugeot L500 which was literally a virtual concept car that appeared almost 18 months before it arrived in the game and with no mention of GT anywhere until it did so.

I stand corrected on that one. Doesn't change the fact that I think the project is a waste of time - time better spent on real world models.
 
I stand corrected on that one. Doesn't change the fact that I think the project is a waste of time - time better spent on real world models.
That does take us back to the question posed though: did you think the same thing about the concept cars presented across the GT series (from the "Dodge Concept" of GT1 to the Mazda RX-Vision Concept of GT7, through things like the TVR Speed 12 [which was a concept and a prototype, but not a production car until the Cerbera Speed 12 in GT3], the Ford GT90, and the entire GT Concept game [all three of them]) or is it just when they have a "Vision GT" badge on them that you think they're a waste of time?

Fun detail: VGTs are, in fact, the smallest time sink in modelling terms of them all. They're built with the CAD files from the manufacturers' designers, with no scanning and materials sampling necessary.
 
I know I'm in the minority in this thread; I like the VGTs in Gran Turismo 7.

My love of concept cars - real, animated, digital, etc. - goes way back a few decades.

I remember watching the Pontiac Trans-Sport go from a concept car on the auto show circuit to production . . . eventually ending as the Montana. Same goes for the Dodge Viper.

But I also loved and wanted to drive cars that only existed on comic book pages/manga and/or cartoons. I would love to drive the GRX from Mach-a-Go-Go-Go (no interest in the thing that showed up in the Wachowski movie) and if I were to win the lottery? One guess on what I pay Gotham Garage to build.

(hint - look at my avatar)

So, the idea of having cars that don't exist as a viable model (production, race, etc.) is not only one I'm comfortable with, I love the concept. Being able to be a test driver of unproven technologies and the like is wonderful!


. . . now if they would just make those cars I want from Speed Racer . . .

Onto VGT cars. I put them in the same category as any digital/celluloid/comic/cartoon vehicle.

This gives companies a chance to explore concepts and designs without the typical cost of development of getting to a test mule and the like.


VGT cars also allow us the chance to do what (for the most part) most of us would never be able to do: Drive a concept car within an inch of its life.


There are a handful of VGT cars I don't plan on buying until the very end for a simple reason: no interior (I'm on PSVR2 so that's a deal breaker for me.) I have won a couple-few of these in the ticket system, however.

While most of my VGT cars don't leave my garage all that often, there are a few that do. E.G. I use the Ferrari VGT pretty much every time a Gr. 1 weekly challenge pops up.


TL;DR Version:

So, long story short (to late!) I feel the VGT has a great deal of value to the game. I hope to see more.

Do I miss the Nike? Yes. Yes I do.

Do I love the fact I get to test out theoretical cars? I'm here for all of it.



Granted, that's just my opinion.
 
That does take us back to the question posed though: did you think the same thing about the concept cars presented across the GT series (from the "Dodge Concept" of GT1 to the Mazda RX-Vision Concept of GT7, through things like the TVR Speed 12 [which was a concept and a prototype, but not a production car until the Cerbera Speed 12 in GT3], the Ford GT90, and the entire GT Concept game [all three of them]) or is it just when they have a "Vision GT" badge on them that you think they're a waste of time?

The concepts from previous GT games I view differently because they weren't a million miles from reality. Whether it's the Dodge Viper GTS-R, Ford GT90 (have a huge soft spot for this one as I have a scale model at home) 😀 Cadillac Cien, Dodge Copperhead or Volkswagen W12 Nardo. They're all within the realms of immediate or short term reality. They are also all stylistically unique cars with real life data concerning weight, power, 0-60 times, top speed etc. I know the Bugatti VGT did pass on some concepts to the production Chiron so at least it was useful in that respect. I can't see much resemblance between the Hyundai VGT, Infiniti VGT, Mitsubishi PHEV etc and their production counterparts.

Most of the VGTs all look very similar to me, with some exceptions like the BMW VGT, Mini VGT or the Daihatsu Copen RJ. There's nothing interesting about most of the designs. Don't get me started on the SRT ones like the Tomahawk X etc. Drives on protons or something ridiculous.

But also, back in the day, video games were released complete (at least on consoles) with no DLC. Now that DLC is the norm, they have so much more scope to add far more interesting cars. Then again, there are those fans who like the VGTs so it's only fair to cater to all tastes. Purely from an egocentric POV however, I believe the resources could have been used more productively. I see the Vision GT project as

a) an ideal way to boost car numbers without the pain of expensive licences and resource intensive scanning, finding a real world model, etc.
b) probably a good hobby for some designers to let their creative juices flow and just go wild.

The name "Vision GT" is also not particularly inventive and also suggests that the cars are specifically built and created for the world of Gran Turismo rather than being for all car fans to enjoy, like the GT90, Italdesign Cala or even the Aston Martin Bulldog.
No one can tell me that you can compare those cars with the Bulgari Aluminium VGT.
 
The concepts from previous GT games I view differently because they weren't a million miles from reality.
Quite a few Vision GT cars aren't either - even stuff like a 1000hp Jaguar EV. What came along two years later? A 2000hp Lotus EV, and currently (and somewhat infamously) Jaguar is exploring its own EV coupe for next year, likely overdosing on power but, despite the timeline, not looking anything like it because Jaguar has decided to abandon its heritage...

Several were production-intent vehicles too. There were plans to make the IsoRivolta and the Fittipaldi as actual limited-run customer cars (and, though it isn't a VGT, the inspiration for the project was the Citroen that also had production intent), and the Genesis is possibly on-track as well.

They are also all stylistically unique cars with real life data concerning weight, power, 0-60 times, top speed etc.
The GT90 is a terrible example to precede this statement, because it never existed in that form and couldn't meet the supposed "real life data"... but also for the next one:
I can't see much resemblance between the Hyundai VGT, Infiniti VGT, Mitsubishi PHEV etc and their production counterparts.
Nothing on the GT90 borrowed from previous models (that was, after all, the point), but it was itself a preview of the "New Edge" design ethos that majored on triangles (but only on the rear). We saw it on the Ka, the Focus, the Cougar, and they tried a couple of triangles on the Mustang and Falcon and then it died to be replaced with Kinetic.

The Hyundai is a weird example because it's basically an LMP1H (see much connection between the Audi R18, Porsche 919, Toyota TS050 and their brands' production cars? Me neither) and the connection is technological: the hydrogen fuel cell. The Infiniti and Mitsubishi are very odd examples as the former is about what you'd expect from a two-sizes-up Q60 with a V8 in the nose (and much of the design was used again on the Q80 concept) and the Mitsubishi is literally a Mitsubishi concept car that had a GT badge stuck on it several months after the fact and borrowed from/loaned to the Eclipse Cross (the XR-PHEV and XR-PHEV II are cited as previewing that car), ASX, and virtually every SUV/CUV facelifted since 2018.

But then there's actually not that many that you could pull the badges off and not spot as being either current design, an evolution of current design, or - retrospectively - a preview of future design from the respective brand. Sometimes you have to find the right angle - the Ferrari is what the hell from the front, but oh I sorta get it from the side and back - but mostly it's quite clear.

This shouldn't be a surprise as, for the most part, the people designing them are the brands' senior designers. I can think of two where I just... don't get what connection they have even now, and that's the Dodge and Chaparral - but then these are also the two cars everyone thinks all VGTs are, for some reason.

Don't get me started on the SRT ones like the Tomahawk X etc. Drives on protons or something ridiculous.
And which you just mixed up. The Chaparral is the laser-"powered" one - basically the laser striking the shroud produces shockwaves which are focused rearwards, pushing it forwards - and to be wholly fair, it's a propulsion system that actually has grounding in reality. For spacecraft, but still.

It's not exactly unique amongst concept cars with utterly ludicrous power generation methods...

I see the Vision GT project as

a) an ideal way to boost car numbers without the pain of expensive licences and resource intensive scanning, finding a real world model, etc.
b) probably a good hobby for some designers to let their creative juices flow and just go wild.
It's a bit of both for sure, but also c) a way to forge unique links between the game and senior designers at vehicle manufacturers (many of whom take it very seriously, some of whom farm it out to or pick on-paper concepts from juniors) and create concept cars that people can see (and drive) without having to go to the trouble of getting them made up as full-size clay bucks to be carted around motorshows.
the GT90, Italdesign Cala or even the Aston Martin Bulldog
Were all prototypes - as were the Copperhead, Cien, and Nardo you mentioned previous.

Prototypes are a distinct subset of and sometimes also separate from concepts. Again, as noted up-thread, most concepts are 5x2x1.5 chunks of clay, shaped and painted. Some move under some kind of power to make rolling them about show stages easier. Very few work, and very few of those are actual prototypes. Comparing a functioning, engineered prototype to what amounts to a teapot is not apples/apples.

An equivalent car to the Bulgari (which is one of the best VGTs, due to its attributes) would be this thing:


1753486622596.png


A concept car that doesn't actually function, made for a company that doesn't make cars, and designed by an Italian styling house.

My favourite concept car is the Peugeot Quasar. I don't believe it ever worked, but it had a ridiculous 600hp 205 T16 engine in the back, a 40:60 Ferguson AWD system "F1 derived suspension" (uh-huh, Peugeot) and while it didn't entirely resemble previous Peugeots it absolutely previewed the 405 and 605 in the following year or three.

Silly overpowered engine (come on, 600hp in a Peugeot in 1986?), AWD, two-seat coupe, a bit futuristic and previewing subsequent cars... doesn't sound far off a VGT!
 
Quite a few Vision GT cars aren't either - even stuff like a 1000hp Jaguar EV. What came along two years later? A 2000hp Lotus EV, and currently (and somewhat infamously) Jaguar is exploring its own EV coupe for next year, likely overdosing on power but, despite the timeline, not looking anything like it because Jaguar has decided to abandon its heritage...

Several were production-intent vehicles too. There were plans to make the IsoRivolta and the Fittipaldi as actual limited-run customer cars (and, though it isn't a VGT, the inspiration for the project was the Citroen that also had production intent), and the Genesis is possibly on-track as well.

The GT90 is a terrible example to precede this statement, because it never existed in that form and couldn't meet the supposed "real life data"... but also for the next one:

Nothing on the GT90 borrowed from previous models (that was, after all, the point), but it was itself a preview of the "New Edge" design ethos that majored on triangles (but only on the rear). We saw it on the Ka, the Focus, the Cougar, and they tried a couple of triangles on the Mustang and Falcon and then it died to be replaced with Kinetic.

The Hyundai is a weird example because it's basically an LMP1H (see much connection between the Audi R18, Porsche 919, Toyota TS050 and their brands' production cars? Me neither) and the connection is technological: the hydrogen fuel cell. The Infiniti and Mitsubishi are very odd examples as the former is about what you'd expect from a two-sizes-up Q60 with a V8 in the nose (and much of the design was used again on the Q80 concept) and the Mitsubishi is literally a Mitsubishi concept car that had a GT badge stuck on it several months after the fact and borrowed from/loaned to the Eclipse Cross (the XR-PHEV and XR-PHEV II are cited as previewing that car), ASX, and virtually every SUV/CUV facelifted since 2018.

But then there's actually not that many that you could pull the badges off and not spot as being either current design, an evolution of current design, or - retrospectively - a preview of future design from the respective brand. Sometimes you have to find the right angle - the Ferrari is what the hell from the front, but oh I sorta get it from the side and back - but mostly it's quite clear.

This shouldn't be a surprise as, for the most part, the people designing them are the brands' senior designers. I can think of two where I just... don't get what connection they have even now, and that's the Dodge and Chaparral - but then these are also the two cars everyone thinks all VGTs are, for some reason.

And which you just mixed up. The Chaparral is the laser-"powered" one - basically the laser striking the shroud produces shockwaves which are focused rearwards, pushing it forwards - and to be wholly fair, it's a propulsion system that actually has grounding in reality. For spacecraft, but still.

It's not exactly unique amongst concept cars with utterly ludicrous power generation methods...

It's a bit of both for sure, but also c) a way to forge unique links between the game and senior designers at vehicle manufacturers (many of whom take it very seriously, some of whom farm it out to or pick on-paper concepts from juniors) and create concept cars that people can see (and drive) without having to go to the trouble of getting them made up as full-size clay bucks to be carted around motorshows.

Were all prototypes - as were the Copperhead, Cien, and Nardo you mentioned previous.

Prototypes are a distinct subset of and sometimes also separate from concepts. Again, as noted up-thread, most concepts are 5x2x1.5 chunks of clay, shaped and painted. Some move under some kind of power to make rolling them about show stages easier. Very few work, and very few of those are actual prototypes. Comparing a functioning, engineered prototype to what amounts to a teapot is not apples/apples.

An equivalent car to the Bulgari (which is one of the best VGTs, due to its attributes) would be this thing:


View attachment 1467641

A concept car that doesn't actually function, made for a company that doesn't make cars, and designed by an Italian styling house.

My favourite concept car is the Peugeot Quasar. I don't believe it ever worked, but it had a ridiculous 600hp 205 T16 engine in the back, a 40:60 Ferguson AWD system "F1 derived suspension" (uh-huh, Peugeot) and while it didn't entirely resemble previous Peugeots it absolutely previewed the 405 and 605 in the following year or three.

Silly overpowered engine (come on, 600hp in a Peugeot in 1986?), AWD, two-seat coupe, a bit futuristic and previewing subsequent cars... doesn't sound far off a VGT!

Quite a few Vision GT cars aren't either - even stuff like a 1000hp Jaguar EV. What came along two years later? A 2000hp Lotus EV, and currently (and somewhat infamously) Jaguar is exploring its own EV coupe for next year, likely overdosing on power but, despite the timeline, not looking anything like it because Jaguar has decided to abandon its heritage...

Several were production-intent vehicles too. There were plans to make the IsoRivolta and the Fittipaldi as actual limited-run customer cars (and, though it isn't a VGT, the inspiration for the project was the Citroen that also had production intent), and the Genesis is possibly on-track as well.

The GT90 is a terrible example to precede this statement, because it never existed in that form and couldn't meet the supposed "real life data"... but also for the next one:

Nothing on the GT90 borrowed from previous models (that was, after all, the point), but it was itself a preview of the "New Edge" design ethos that majored on triangles (but only on the rear). We saw it on the Ka, the Focus, the Cougar, and they tried a couple of triangles on the Mustang and Falcon and then it died to be replaced with Kinetic.

The Hyundai is a weird example because it's basically an LMP1H (see much connection between the Audi R18, Porsche 919, Toyota TS050 and their brands' production cars? Me neither) and the connection is technological: the hydrogen fuel cell. The Infiniti and Mitsubishi are very odd examples as the former is about what you'd expect from a two-sizes-up Q60 with a V8 in the nose (and much of the design was used again on the Q80 concept) and the Mitsubishi is literally a Mitsubishi concept car that had a GT badge stuck on it several months after the fact and borrowed from/loaned to the Eclipse Cross (the XR-PHEV and XR-PHEV II are cited as previewing that car), ASX, and virtually every SUV/CUV facelifted since 2018.

But then there's actually not that many that you could pull the badges off and not spot as being either current design, an evolution of current design, or - retrospectively - a preview of future design from the respective brand. Sometimes you have to find the right angle - the Ferrari is what the hell from the front, but oh I sorta get it from the side and back - but mostly it's quite clear.

This shouldn't be a surprise as, for the most part, the people designing them are the brands' senior designers. I can think of two where I just... don't get what connection they have even now, and that's the Dodge and Chaparral - but then these are also the two cars everyone thinks all VGTs are, for some reason.

And which you just mixed up. The Chaparral is the laser-"powered" one - basically the laser striking the shroud produces shockwaves which are focused rearwards, pushing it forwards - and to be wholly fair, it's a propulsion system that actually has grounding in reality. For spacecraft, but still.

It's not exactly unique amongst concept cars with utterly ludicrous power generation methods...

It's a bit of both for sure, but also c) a way to forge unique links between the game and senior designers at vehicle manufacturers (many of whom take it very seriously, some of whom farm it out to or pick on-paper concepts from juniors) and create concept cars that people can see (and drive) without having to go to the trouble of getting them made up as full-size clay bucks to be carted around motorshows.

Were all prototypes - as were the Copperhead, Cien, and Nardo you mentioned previous.

Prototypes are a distinct subset of and sometimes also separate from concepts. Again, as noted up-thread, most concepts are 5x2x1.5 chunks of clay, shaped and painted. Some move under some kind of power to make rolling them about show stages easier. Very few work, and very few of those are actual prototypes. Comparing a functioning, engineered prototype to what amounts to a teapot is not apples/apples.

An equivalent car to the Bulgari (which is one of the best VGTs, due to its attributes) would be this thing:


View attachment 1467641

A concept car that doesn't actually function, made for a company that doesn't make cars, and designed by an Italian styling house.

My favourite concept car is the Peugeot Quasar. I don't believe it ever worked, but it had a ridiculous 600hp 205 T16 engine in the back, a 40:60 Ferguson AWD system "F1 derived suspension" (uh-huh, Peugeot) and while it didn't entirely resemble previous Peugeots it absolutely previewed the 405 and 605 in the following year or three.

Silly overpowered engine (come on, 600hp in a Peugeot in 1986?), AWD, two-seat coupe, a bit futuristic and previewing subsequent cars... doesn't sound far off a VGT!
My apologies but I could never get the hang of doing multiple quotes on GTPlanet when responding to lots of different points so will just need to do it this way 🙂

Yes, I do tend to mix up the Chaparral and SRT concepts 🤣 Probably because they both seem to coalesce in my mind as something not particularly pleasant.

It's an interesting point you raised about the Jaguar VGT having links to the Evija. Shame about Jaguar taking a different ethos going forward. Why do you think this is the case?

I never really thought about concepts and prototypes as being separate but I can now perhaps understand why I have more affinity for prototypes like those listed over the VGTs in GT. Just the names conjure up something unique. For example, Aston Martin Bulldog, Cadillac Cien, TVR Speed 12, Volkswagen W12 Nardo etc.
Someone took the time to actually think of a cool sounding model name. But also, the likes of the Speed 12, Nardo, GTS-R etc were fully functional prototypes, right? Or am I wrong on that one?

On the other hand, so many VGTs in GT have such generic, non-descript names like BMW VGT, Mini VGT, Suzuki VGT, Ferrari VGT, Lamborghini VGT etc. At least Genesis didn't do the same thing. The Genesis X Racer actually sounds pretty decent and it has a really good interior design, too. If they took a bit of time to come up with more inventive names, my perception may very well be different.

Although Italdesign is a styling house, haven't they built and sold their first car to the paying public in the form of the ZeroUno? I'm pretty sure I saw a video somewhere of the Cala being a fully functional vehicle....But they have also been styling cars for decades. Bulgari has only done the Aluminium VGT so not sure it's the best example.
Italdesign also unveiled the Da Vinci concept a while back.

The Peugeot Quasar was supposed to race in the S Class Prototypes class but got scrapped after the banning of Group B, right? Along with the Lancia ECV and Toyota Celica 222D. Shame, would have been fascinating to see them in action 😳

You strike me as someone who has a great deal of knowledge about the automotive industry in general so just wanted to ask something that I haven't been able to find an answer to on the internet.
In GT7, the Amuse S2000 GT1 Turbo- is it a real functioning car with 617hp or is it only the S2300 naturally aspirated variant that was used in the Japanese touge races with 392hp that exists "in the real world" so to speak? In theory, I guess if Amuse added a turbocharger it would function but I haven't been able to find any videos or photos about the one in GT7 outside of the GT series.....
 
Yes, I do tend to mix up the Chaparral and SRT concepts 🤣 Probably because they both seem to coalesce in my mind as something not particularly pleasant.
They are the poster children for the worst excesses of VGT. To be fair, there's only two of them (boy could I live without the three variants of the Tomahawk AND the Gr.1 version; still, the S is a good cheat code for money-spinning road car races), and they do show a bit of out-there imagination, but they're the ones most people think about when they want to crap on VGT :lol:
It's an interesting point you raised about the Jaguar VGT having links to the Evija. Shame about Jaguar taking a different ethos going forward. Why do you think this is the case?
It's not really linked in any particular way, it's just "1000hp AWD EV" is one of those things levelled at VGT a lot as being silly and unrealistic - as if the Rimac Concept One (1,300hp), Concept S (1,400hp), and Nevera (2,000hp), Pininfarina Battista (1,900hp) Lotus Evija (2,000hp) aren't things.

The Jaguar actually did look pretty Jaguar-y, combining the facelift F-Type with the C-X75, and treading the I-PACE eTrophy path for the powertrain. It's a sack of crap to drive though :lol:

Jaguar Land Rover has been busy trying to torpedo everything recently. First there was the decision that "Land Rover has no brand equity" (what?) so they decided to drop it from model names entirely - resulting in the lines being called Defender, Discovery, and now Freelander without "Land Rover" before them - but retain the green oval badge as a "trust mark". I think the general notion there was actually "Land Rover" makes you think of farms, and they want to charge £120,000 for a base Defender so the image and aspiration don't match. Then there was the choice to just stop making Jaguars for 18 months until the new electric platforms arrive; they really see themselves as shifting up from what you buy if you don't want an Audi, BMW, or Mercedes to what you buy instead of a Flying Spur.

But also, the likes of the Speed 12, Nardo, GTS-R etc were fully functional prototypes, right? Or am I wrong on that one?
I don't know which GTS-R (the Viper? That was feature-complete and drove, but I don't know if the powertrain was "real"; wouldn't have been hard though as it was more or less the same as the car already in production), but the Nardo was a functioning and complete pre-production prototype. The Speed 12 is super-tricky to answer; Project 7/12 - the original - was a rolling chassis, while the Speed 12 had one actual roadworthy prototype and some other chassis that would end up racing. It wasn't until the Cerbera Speed 12 that it became a "production" car, and that pretty famously didn't last long!
Although Italdesign is a styling house, haven't they built and sold their first car to the paying public in the form of the ZeroUno? I'm pretty sure I saw a video somewhere of the Cala being a fully functional vehicle....But they have also been styling cars for decades. Bulgari has only done the Aluminium VGT so not sure it's the best example.
Bulgari itself did... pretty much nothing. The car was designed by former Pininfarina designer Fabio Filippini, who also did the Fittipaldi EF7, based on the Bulgari Aluminium watch design (from 1998) with input from Bulgari watch designer (and ex-FIAT Centro Stile) Fabrizio Buonamassa Stigliani.
The Peugeot Quasar was supposed to race in the S Class Prototypes class but got scrapped after the banning of Group B, right?
Mostly no. It was pure concept, with no production intent at all, so wouldn't have been eligible for Group S in any case.
In GT7, the Amuse S2000 GT1 Turbo- is it a real functioning car with 617hp
From what I know, it did exist (though sort-of nicknamed the S2300) and entered time attack events some time around 2007.

Edit: In fact, here you go (it's only a short clip but)...
 
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