Volkswagen Buys Proton/Lotus (Post #36)

[daan]

Don't double post please, Poverty. You've been here long enough to know not to. Use the multi-quote feature if you want to quote more than 1 person.

 

[Poverty]

whoops sorry brain not in gear

 

[YSSMAN]

Porsche doesnt interfer with what audi does. It was lambo that has stopped the R8 getting that 600hp biturbo petrol engine.

I believe he is right on that one. Lambo didn't want the R8 stepping on the Gallardo's toes, which IMO really isn't too big of a threat to any of Porsche's products to begin with. What is interesting to note is that Lambo will be picking up some of the new pieces developed by Audi on the same chassis for the updated Gallardo for 2008, but I don't see Audi kicking and screaming over that.

Chances are that VAG won't touch Lotus for a while, or at least until their contracts are up with Toyota for the given engine/transmission combos. Then VAG may start meddling, but even then it is fairly unclear what they would even do with a small, lightweight car company by comparison to VAG's preference towards large, rather heavy cars, be they sporty or not.

With the development of the Esprit still ongoing, I could see VAG pushing Lotus into taking the Audi-sourced 4.2L V8, but was that not a possibility from the get-go? However the use of the Gallardo chassis is an interesting idea, however I'm certain that Lotus already has something in mind for the car.

What will be most interesting is how they will use Proton in the future. Will they continue on with the crap-tastic knock-off models of today, or will they build older versions of Volkswagens to re-badge and restyle as Proton models? Or maybe none of the above? It is hard to say.

...We'll have to wait for the official announcement on Thursday 18 February for the details, at least thats what I would guess, but nothing major will probably happen for a while...

 

[kranzx]

Source Motor Authority via Autoblog

Volkswagen has signed an agreement of intent to buy a significant stake in the manufacturing arm of Malaysia’s state-owned Proton. The information was leaked from an inside source to XFN-Asia, ahead of an official statement due on the 8th of February. VW’s expected to purchase up to 51% of Proton’s shares, giving the German giant control over the Malaysian carmaker’s operations.

A few years back it was reported that Volkswagen was keen to join with Proton to increase its capacity in Asia to build its Passat and Fox models. Proton has been losing market share to a host of international competitors ever since, including Malaysia’s own Naza and Perodua Motors. Other bidders that were hoping to buy into Proton include General Motors and the PSA Peugeot-Citroen group. Malaysia’s government had preferred either VW or Peugeot-Citroen to win the bid, and it appears as though GM and the French duo have lost out.

Wiki page has been updated as well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Group

On January the 26th 2007 Malaysian news has announced Volkswagen AG has signed an agreement to buy a 51% stake in Proton (company) Auto Division. Official announcement from the two companies is expected February 8 2007.

http://www.bernama.com.my/bernama/v3/news_business.php?id=243616

 

[harrytuttle]

Yes! Volkswagen buys another supercar brand, hopefully leading to more in-fighting amongst it and Porsche as to whether there should be a single vehicle on Earth that competes with Porsche.

Seconded. Makes no real sense financially, no matter how you look at it.

Thirded. I don't think Audi really needs Lotus' expertise when it comes to sports cars (even ignoring the fact that they are in totally different markets), considering that the RS4 is a significant step in the right direction and even the TT mk2 is markedly better. Audi seems to be figuring out the "sports" part just fine.

Audi could be buying into Proton for the market share. VW is big in China, and VAG may want to expand throughout the rest of Asia (someone mentioned the problems with non-Malaysian car companies selling in Malaysia). Proton ownership may get them an easier entry there. Owning part of Lotus has great potential on many fronts: income from 3rd party developers having Lotus tune their cars, using said tech knowledge for VAG cars, lightweight engineering, borrowing the platform for a sub-Boxster (maybe). Of course, VAG could totally screw up Lotus, too, turning the Elise into a stripped-out Boxster, and the upcoming Esprit into a rebadged R8.

In general, I'm not in favor of this buyout. I already think VAG has too many brands under one roof, regardless of how they think the brands are separated (they're really not). I also don't think that the teutonic philosophy fits Lotus any more than it fits Lamborghini.

 

[Leonidae]

When was the last time anyone went to lotus for help.....

Nissan, to get their GT-R's suspension and chassis finetuned..

 

[Poverty]

Thats another one then. Still people are concentrating on VAG and lotus, when we still dont know if VAG will have control over lotus. Another thing that people may not be forgetting but rather dont have knowledge of is that out of the big 3 germans audi is easly the most advanced when it comes to lightweight chassis' construction, its just the 4WD system doesnt make it apparent. Another thing that weighs down audi's are the interiors. Compare the feel and weight behind the door of a audi or VW to a BMW and mercedes, and you will find that it is rather more solid and weighty.

 

[Dave A]

Lotus do a lot for a lot of companies, you just don't always read about it.

On other news a MK2 TT in development with more power has lapped the 'ring in 8mins 16 secs

A TT RS perhaps, that would be cool. Do you have a link for this?

 

[Poverty]

Sorry no link, just info that has been leaked by an audi employ.ee

 

[Scaff]

When was the last time anyone went to lotus for help.....

Ok maybe you americans need it, but I think the germans dont, especially seeing as VAG do have Porsche at hand, and can gain more than enough expertise from lambo, bentley and bugatti products.

We arent even sure if lotus will come under the control of VAG aswell yet.

Its the car enthiussiats in you that makes you guys think VAG is in it for lotus. They couldnt care less

Oh dear, Poverty being as you are such a huge VAG fan how did you manage to forget that the GX3 Concept was developed by VW and a rather well known Norfolk based firm by the name of Lotus.

One of many sources on the web. http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=109643#14

Seems that the Germans still turn to Lotus from time to time.

While your reasons that VAG may not want Lotus merit discussion, please do not dismiss the work of one of the world's finest Automotive Engineering companies out of hand. Most of the work they do is not publicised at the time, and a good deal of it never is. that does not mean they don't get work, quite the opposite the consultancy side of Lotus does rather well.

Regards

Scaff

 

[niky]

Aside from the Lotus angle, I still think you guys are missing the possibility that VAG may want Proton as a market penetration point into Asia, much as Chevrolet did with Daewoo.

Even though a lot of what Daewoo sold (and still sells) are steaming pieces of **don't-hit-the-swear-censor-on-your-way-out**, GM acquired it to boost capacity in that region, and to boost volume for the Cherolet brand. Once the current Daewoo-based models (Forenza/Optra, Aveo) have run their life-cycles, the plants will (hopefully) tool up to build shared Chevrolet or Opel platforms for the market here.

That's possibly the way VW will go with Proton. If they've got a controlling share, they may choose to gradually allow VW re-badges to supersede local Proton products. And with the capital boost, Proton will be able to supply some of the markets it has had to retract from (partially, mine) due to unprofitability.

VAG's ownership of Lotus doesn't mean much for model development. None of Lotus's owners has forced them to sell putresence under their own name (the FWD Elan was actually pretty good... just FWD, thus people didn't like it... didn't help that it was based on an Isuzu, but then, I actually liked the Isuzu it was based on... ).

I can only see good things for Lotus. VW is the most financially stable parent it has had. Why would VAG mess with it? They already have VW to sell modestly-priced "sporty" cars, Audi to sell premium sports cars and Porsche to sell balls-out luxury sports cars... why should we assume they want to turn Lotus into another luxury sports car brand?

 

[YSSMAN]

That's possibly the way VW will go with Proton. If they've got a controlling share, they may choose to gradually allow VW re-badges to supersede local Proton products. And with the capital boost, Proton will be able to supply some of the markets it has had to retract from (partially, mine) due to unprofitability.

You're probably right, and it will be interesting to see how it will all work out. My guess is that they push-out MKIV platform cars with the Proton badges/style plastered all over them. Although, they could do the MKV depending on how soon the MKVI platform debuts. Either way, better cars are probably coming.