Wacky New Designs: Good or Bad?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Danny
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Oddball or Tried and Tested?

  • GIVE ME OLD!

    Votes: 12 42.9%
  • GIVE ME NEW!

    Votes: 16 57.1%

  • Total voters
    28

Danny

Code Red
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Scarfolk
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Grim10
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Are you kidding?
I was interested to see whether people like the new oddball car designs (such as the Peugeot 407 and new Civic) or people prefer older designs, such as boxy musclecars.

Personally, I like the new wave of odd designs. I think Renaults designs are superb, and Citroen is advancing quickly with the C4 and C6. Both of which asusme the appearance of a spacecraft.
 
Some new ones are decent, but for the most part I think they suck.
 
Innovation is needed for evolution. For example cell phones... Who would have thought that a mobile phone booth would be reasonable during the old days :D And i like the look of some of these new cars like Peugeot 407.
 
I personally want to stick with the older designs. We have had 33 years of so-so American design, and its time they start to build cars for Americans again.
 
YSSMAN
I personally want to stick with the older designs. We have had 33 years of so-so American design, and its time they start to build cars for Americans again.

So going back and redesigning those crappy cars will make everything better?

Here's my cold, hard opinion:

The big three have not had any progressive or interesting car design in the past 5 years. Period.

They need some skilled designers who can actually think of ideas people haven't seen, not re-using older designs, and claiming them to be the best thing in the world, when more than often, they quite simply aren't.

Ford Europe has the right idea. Bring over Mr Mays to America, have him give more influence, and we'll see some better progression.
 
You're kidding right? Look at the new American cars.
 
...You are aware that Mays designed the Thunderbird, Mustang, and GT? The American auto industry owes it all to J. Mays for starting the whole reto-futuristic design craze that he started in 1998 with the Volkswagen New Beetle.

I personally prefer the looks of classic American cars, particularly those between 1955-1973. The lack of bumper safety equipment let the looks be much more trimmed down and looks more lean than the models post-'73. The classic American "Coke Bottle" shape is still as sexy as ever, and seeing the design come back with cars like the Charger, Challenger, Camaro, etc is great.

I wil admit that progress does need to happen, but when the largest buying market to ever grace the planet is now at a point where they are either comming into money or retiring, they want cars and trucks that are going to be comfortable and familiar. Why the hell do you think so many baby boomers have been buying Mustang GTs and HHRs?
 
B_X
Some new ones are decent, but for the most part I think they suck.

you're kidding right? Look at the new American cars.

I think most the renaults are just avergae, run of the mill, nothing spectacular, been there done that in the looks department. I cant wait for their renault sport clio however.

I like the old american muscle cars and I like quite a few of the new ones barring the mustang. However froma design point of view theyre just old modern copies.
 
I personally like alot of the new car designs. I think Chevrolet is going in the right direction with their Trucks, and Pontiac, Saturn, etc. are really turning their look around.

Ford has done really well with the Mustangs, and with Saleen's help, have turned the Saleen Mustangs into monster looking cars.

Porsche is alright, though the front doesn't really go well with the new Turbo and I love the Cayman.

Audi, BMW, Mercedes, and Volkswagen all continue to do good work, though I have really grown attracted to Audi's new grill and cars.

The same goes for Cadillac who have really changed their image, imo, over these past few years, though I still think the XLR and XLR-V are extremely overpriced cars.

Chrysler and Dodge continue to surprise me everyday. I have fallen in love with all the SRT models from the Charger to the 300C to the Magnum, and all the way to the Grand Cherokee.

Japan, as well, continues to aww me. The new GS and IS are fantasticly amazing. The older GS was great and the new GS just gets better. The IS has really made an impact on me as it just improves the ol' IS look in everyway. It actually looks like a sports car now.

And of course, I always fall in love with Italy's big bull.
The Gallardo Spyder has overwhelmed me. I can't stop thinking of it, and really want to drive the "baby" Lamborghini. It looks amazing as a Spyder than a Coupe.

Ferrari has been doing ok until that 599 came along which I still can't get rid of.

Ferrari, bring back the old.

Anyways, as for others:
~Aston Martin: Definately going in the right direction. C'mon, we all know that AMV8 and DB9 is drop-dead sex.
~Bentley: Keep it up. The Flying Spur is beautiful.
~Rolls-Royce: Ok, but stick with the Phantom, not the 100C.
~Pagani: Only 1 letter. F.

These are my opinions.
 
BlazinXtreme
You're kidding right? Look at the new American cars.

I am most definitely not kidding in the slightest bit.

I am willing to discuss this in a normal manner, but you have to start. Pick a subject.

This will be hard, as these are opinions and they can't be wrong, now can they?! In fact, I am finding myself thinking the same thing after seeing many new designs (in the American market): I get the same feeling as I do when I come up with similar designs that I discard because of lack of flair. They are, for the most part, dry, uninteresting, unproportionate cars, where almost everything seems to be an afterthought (here's where my discarded ideas come into mind).

In fact, I'll start the discussion. That armada of obeiss SUVs from GM slated for the 2007+ model year is a terrible eye-sore of uncooperative lines and unattractive tumor-like features. Thank God I don't live where buying into this lame trend is bigger than the vehicles themselves.
 
SUV styling is somewhat of an oxymoron. While the Cayanne and Touraeg have pulled off great design styles, they are not full-sized truck-based SUVs like the GMT900s, Ford Expedition and Excursion, etc. The Body-on-frame design does little to create the best of looks for any vehicle.

That said, the GMT900s are a vast improvement over previous generation models...Take a look:

Tahoe 2006:
369_0506_chevtahoe_f_l.jpg

GMT900-based 2007 Tahoe:
47.jpg


2006 Escalade:
20025452-396x249.jpg

GMT900-based 2007 Escalade
112_news051111_escalade_l.jpg


...My biggest question is why it really matters? A truck is a truck, and that is all it will ever be. Trucks arent meant to be pretty, they are meant to do work. Now I will admit that the VW Twins (soon to become triplets with Audi Q7) are great lookers and performers, but they still cant carry and tow as much as a full-sized body-on-frame SUV.
 
We need more choices in the poll, because I like both! :D Seriously, experimental or traditional, good design is a good design to me.
 
eliseracer
I am most definitely not kidding in the slightest bit.

I am willing to discuss this in a normal manner, but you have to start. Pick a subject.

This will be hard, as these are opinions and they can't be wrong, now can they?! In fact, I am finding myself thinking the same thing after seeing many new designs (in the American market): I get the same feeling as I do when I come up with similar designs that I discard because of lack of flair. They are, for the most part, dry, uninteresting, unproportionate cars, where almost everything seems to be an afterthought (here's where my discarded ideas come into mind).

In fact, I'll start the discussion. That armada of obeiss SUVs from GM slated for the 2007+ model year is a terrible eye-sore of uncooperative lines and unattractive tumor-like features. Thank God I don't live where buying into this lame trend is bigger than the vehicles themselves.


This is coming from the guy would told me my theories about the ancient world were wrong.

Ahem Mr. Kettle you are black said Mr. Pot
 
BlazinXtreme
This is coming from the guy would told me blah blah blah

Ahem Mr. Kettle you are black said Mr. Pot

See, I was being sarcastic. My apologies for not making it clearer, or by simply saying I'm being sarcastic earlier.

Design is a marketing tool used to sell cars. People like things that look nice. If the desing and marketing department aren't intentionally making things look nice, then there are some serious administrative issues to be settled. Design is such a strong tool (if not, the strongest), not using it is very stupid. The best ad campaigns can't cover up an ugly and poorly thought-out car.

Let's take alook at the given examples. The Tahoe, and the Escalade, which is almost identical, with some minor changes. The first Tahoe has some similar parts, but the noticable ones are: The front lights/grille, the rear quarter glass (C-pillar and surounding shape) and then the vertical black pieces of plastic that accents the back window. The integrated headlights/grille are capped by the elevated hood shape. This horizontal surface (and the similarly themed sides of the truck) leads the eyes towards the back-er end of the vehicle, until the eyes and mind find another familiar shape: that rear quarter. The shape of it ends at the back of the truck, where those vertical black stacks spruce up the tail, in similar form to the front end of the thing, which in a lot of ways, completes the design with fluidity and a general feeling of wholeness.

Now, when I explain it like that, it's a bit of a stretch, but it is still somewhat logical. Now, the older Tahoe has a variant (or two?): the Escalade (question: it seems as if the provided images show the extended Tahoe, but the normal-sized Escalada. Is this correct?). GM changed up the lights and grille, which makes sense, as most to all people identify the vehicle with those very features (seen in the popularity of brand identity through grilles today). But see, GM decided that those were the main features that they were going to change to cross over from Chevy to Caddy. But the aforementioned transition elements still remain from the Tahoe, especially the entire middle of the car, which accounts for over 75% of the car's profile, in this case. Since they are actually the exact same thing on both cars, not only can you tell it's the same car underneath, but you can't quite understand the fluidity to the Escalade, which the Tahoe has a pleasant amount of.

Now look at the 2007 models. I'm not sure which was the original, but the Tahoe has very little identifying and similarly themed parts. The front end literally looks like it was 3 or 4 seperate ideas put all together. The headlights in no way interact with the grille, and the front chin only resembles the grille, as it is its inversed shape. From this angle, the hood also looks to be too sloped. That could be just the picture, or it could also be a new regulation. Either way, it shouldn't look like it's pushing down on the front features, the important ones.

Looking at it using that method, the new design is fairly uncooperative, and just seems like a variety of ideas were poorly thrown together. But that isn't saying that the older design is better. The older ones were seeming out-dated and certainly needed a replacement. They weren't entirely inspiring when they came out, but they did evolve the older versions in a very interesting way (here's that progression factor). If anyone else can provide a modest analasys of the series of vehicles provided, maybe they can enlighten me, and perhaps change my opinion. I'm not afraid of changing my mind or admitting I'm wrong.

=edit= The hood of the newer Tahoe is indeed shaped very steep because it curves downward towards the headlights, taking up valuable forward-facing territory. Not only does it occupy that space, it also has the feeling of pushing down on those important front features. I really can't find a single logical explination in why they did this, so again, if anyone can help me out here, it would help me understand this design.
 
I like the new tahoe. The front of it looks very nice and modern but then the rest of it lets it down a bit I feel.

As for the new escalade the bigger alloys make it seem as if its alot better than its predecessor which its not. They unchunkified the front and smoothed out the sides and thats about it.
 
Hmmm... I hate car styling. I hate all of it. :lol:

That said, I'll take any car design that is functional, cohesive and interesting, be it retro or not... and to be interesting, a car design should have some point of conflict or distress.

I dislike the 5-series, the 7-series and the 1-series... they hardly ever achieve cohesion, except from certain angles. What they do have is conflict. Raw edges and unsettling lines. Some people like that (and in fact, a lot of people buy it), but it's a design theme that definitely won't age well.

The Z4 achieves cohesion, although it may be oddly styled, the design is both coherent and communicative, and can keep your eyes occupied for minutes on end. The disruptive lines come together in a logical manner, and the turn signal acts as a focus for the car's design language. A truly nice new design, that, although many people still hate it (because it's a Bangle), should age well.

I'll single out Audi as another car designer I both love and hate. Love the body, hate the gaping maw. This push for brand identity ruins some of the most beautiful body work on the market today. Case in point: the Shooting Brake Concept... smooth, functional... typically German minimalist and modern... beautiful, and then... the grille. Ugh. The grille is not a functional necessity, merely identity for identity's sake. Not every Audi needs a "new" Audi grille. At least Chevy's signature grille is re-worked to fit each car, not the other way around.

But basing your design entirely on corporate snouts, like Audi, Chevy, Dodge and BMW do, is a hit or miss thing... if you like the snout, fine, if not... you're stuck with it, and there's no room to move forward.

Others have functionality and interest, but don't achieve line cohesion. Most new Hondas are like this. The layouts are logical, functional and simple, without slavishly pandering to automotive fashion, but they lack any sort of cohesion (except for the Fit). The new Civic and the City, which presaged the Civic's style, lack classical proportioning.

That's my beef with newer car designs. Make a statement and stick to it. The cars look like pastiched toys with lots of styling of grilles and lights, but with no thought as to the integration of these parts into the car.

On that note... I love the Gallardo. Minimalist supercar, nothing unnecessary. Cohesive and interesting design. Razor edge styling that fits the car like a glove, and matches the car well. It's a sign of what Audi can do when they're not burdened by the need to slap corporate identities onto their cars.

_____

As for retro, it's only good if it actually adds something to the original. If it doesn't say anything new at all about the original, it shouldn't be done.

The Miura and Challenger concepts are two "retro" cars I do have a beef with. They may look beautiful, but they don't forge an identity for themselves and say absolutely nothing new. They're not functional designs... not living, breathing, cars... merely facsimilies of the originals.

The Ford GT could have been slavishly retro, but except for the odd doors (which it shares with the original), it is not. It's one of those rare "retro" cars that manages to capture the spirit of the original without being an exact copy (though, paradoxically, it's hard to tell them apart at first glance). If you had to build a mid-engined Ford GT from scratch today, it might look something like this.

That's how retro should be. Get in touch with the personality of the original, and draw on a clean sheet of paper.

The Mini is like this, too. It manages to scream Mini without having ridiculous metal seams on the outside or ten inch wheels. As is the Camaro... it manages to capture the feel of the original without being an exact copy of any previous Camaro. Identity without a fax machine. 👍

______

I'd pick either retro or new, as long as it's beautiful.
 
The Tahoe and the Escalade are by no means the same, they are on the same platform. Just because the Magnum and 300C are on the same platform does that make them the same car? No not at all.

American cars have has a vast improvement in design in the past few years. I will admit their 90's designs were anything but spectacular. Hell even GM didn't have to make good designs. But while there still are crappy looking American cars (i.e. Caliber, hell all of Dodge), there are still some good looking ones.
 
BlazinXtreme
The Tahoe and the Escalade are by no means the same, they are on the same platform. Just because the Magnum and 300C are on the same platform does that make them the same car? No not at all.

You're confusing platofrm sharing with design sharing. They share designs, other than the extreme front and rear.

The 300 and Magnum share platforms, but share very practically no external design features, other than the obvious proportions.

niky: I wouldn't call that the Gallardo a minimalist car. I wouldn't call leather-covered dash area and SATNAV very minimalist. Gorgeous, potent and very capable car, but not minimalist.
 
eliseracer
You're confusing platofrm sharing with design sharing. They share designs, other than the extreme front and rear.

The 300 and Magnum share platforms, but share very practically no external design features, other than the obvious proportions.

niky: I wouldn't call that the Gallardo a minimalist car. I wouldn't call leather-covered dash area and SATNAV very minimalist. Gorgeous, potent and very capable car, but not minimalist.

The whole aspect of the Escalade is slightly different then the Tahoe.
 
I like some of the new designs, but I find a lot of new stuff is starting to stretch certain design elements. Whether its headlights, body lines, or interior are being taken too far all depends on the maker.
I have my likes and dislikes of past models as well, so instead of saying I like old more then new, i'm just going to say, I like what I like.
 
niky: I wouldn't call that the Gallardo a minimalist car. I wouldn't call leather-covered dash area and SATNAV very minimalist. Gorgeous, potent and very capable car, but not minimalist.

It all depends on the customer really. If you wnat your gallardo minimalistic the options are there.
 
If your daily driver is a Murcielago then the Gallardo is a bit minimalist.
 
a6m5
We need more choices in the poll, because I like both! :D Seriously, experimental or traditional, good design is a good design to me.
My point exactly !....
 
BlazinXtreme
The whole aspect of the Escalade is slightly different then the Tahoe.

Other than the squarer fenders, they are identical down to the roofrack.

untitled13mw.jpg


And in the provided pictures of the '07 models, they too are not only similars, but practically copies of eachother. You can't expect a design to have any practical effect if it is not even intended for that vehicle.
 
That would be GMT-800...I'm talking GMT-900. They are different, not by much but they are different. A Tahoe door wouldn't fit on an Escalade, also it wouldn't look right. They are based on the same platform, have the some of the same engines, have the some of the same drivetrains, etc. But on the out side the sheet metal is different.
 
The new designs on the British market are pretty good.

The worst ATM though, are Ford. Okay Skoda aren't imaginative, but chrits they aren't too bland.
 
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