Wagoner gives peek at Pontiac G8 (UPDATE: Official pics & specs)

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I understand your point.
...
People WANTED tacky body scoops and such. Pontiac didn't realise that until it was too late.
Mind you, after Pontiac spent a solid 15 years getting lambasted for having boy-racer plastic cladding stuck all over their cars... meh.
 
I understand your point. But the problem is, and it is one that I can also understand, that the GTO everyone seems to remember is this one:
800px1969pontiacgtojudgvr6.jpg

Or, in a stretch, the '67. Not the original.

...which looks exactly like the standard '69 Tempest, with a few trim bits blacked out...



People look at those years GTO as something special, when in fact pretty much every car GM cranked off the line looked awesome. So it fit right in.
 
Mind you, after Pontiac spent a solid 15 years getting lambasted for having boy-racer plastic cladding stuck all over their cars... meh.
I never said it was an intelligent reason.
 
Mind you, after Pontiac spent a solid 15 years getting lambasted for having boy-racer plastic cladding stuck all over their cars... meh.

Yeah, but GTO plastic beats Grand Am plastic by a country mile. It's all in the execution.
 
I wonder if the U.S. model will get the other HSV goodies too. Magnetic Ride Control would certainly help kerb that body body roll from the video. I'm not usually a Holden guy but good to see an aussie doing well overseas.

I'm not completely certain if the car will receive Magnaride or not. That has mostly been reserved for Cadillacs and the Corvette here in America, however I wouldn't completely rule it out for the G8 GXP (basically the HSV Commodore). The sweet-spot for the G8 will likely be the standard, Americanized version of the Commodore SS or SS-V. As long as we have the 367 BHP V8 and a six-speed manual at the ready, most performance folks will be going crazy over the car. Personally, I can't wait to see the G8 wipe the floor with the Charger R/T, and maybe knock a few BMW or Mercedes models down a peg or two offering the same performance for a lot less money...

Toronado
I understand your point. But the problem is, and it is one that I can also understand, that the GTO everyone seems to remember is this one:

*pic*

Or, in a stretch, the '67. Not the original.

You mean the '68 GTO, right? The '67 used the same body style as the most memorable GTOs...

pontiac-gto-1965a.jpg

...The '65-'67 GTO...

Don't get me wrong, the '68-'72 models were great, but only because of "The Judge" option, and even then it wasn't that spectacular compared to its sister cars, the Chevelle SS 454, Buick GS Stage 1, and the Oldsmobile Cutlass 442.
 
I'm not completely certain if the car will receive Magnaride or not. That has mostly been reserved for Cadillacs and the Corvette here in America, however I wouldn't completely rule it out for the G8 GXP (basically the HSV Commodore). The sweet-spot for the G8 will likely be the standard, Americanized version of the Commodore SS or SS-V. As long as we have the 367 BHP V8 and a six-speed manual at the ready, most performance folks will be going crazy over the car. Personally, I can't wait to see the G8 wipe the floor with the Charger R/T, and maybe knock a few BMW or Mercedes models down a peg or two offering the same performance for a lot less money...

It appears so far from the small front pic with the Wheels and brakes that it is a HSV derived version, so I'm sure you can expect something special

You mean the '68 GTO, right? The '67 used the same body style as the most memorable GTOs...

...The '65-'67 GTO...

I think Toronado ment the 68-72 type (69 Judge vert pictured) but also the '67 "in a stretch" as he said, meaning that also many think of the '67 when thinking about the GTO.
 
Also, the '65 was unique and shared no sheetmetal with the '66-'67, though it was very similar. '68 was the first year for the 'Coke Bottle' shape, but it got facelifted in '69, '70, and '72.

Pontiac turned over their designs very quickly in the mid-late '60s.

The '65-'66 Catalina only lasted 2 years despite being gorgeous, and the '67 replacement which was NOT gorgeous only lasted for 1 year. The new '68 Catalina got facelifted in '69, which lasted into '70, but '71 brought a new big car that was revised somewhat every year until it was cancelled in 1975.
 
Looks like the G8 could be a great ride... Only time will tell. However, it does give me hope in the sense that my parents may buy one if the price is right. As of now I'm having a hard time convincing them not to buy a G6 and get a Beamer instead but that's not going to happen, so with the right price this could be the replacement (I doubt it though :( ).

In any case, looks like a great car.
And regarding plastics... :rolleyes:
Plastics on a car are only a problem when someone doesn't like the car and needs something to complain about.
 
I dig the red '66 GTO up the street from here.

When I showed it to my girlfriend, and a few blocks later pointed out a new GTO, she said "oh, so it's supposed to look like an ordinary car" why did noone else get this?
 
^ Good question. Nobody got it, and sales were slow despite it being a pretty big performance bargain. I mean, they weren't slow everywhere. They actually sold quite well here in Grand Rapids, but obviously Michigan isn't a good testing area for sales figures (given the 90% domestic sales rates...).
 
*angelic music*

We're looking at Car of the Year...for several magazines. right there.
 

It looks good, but really very derivative. The headlights, as I pointed out earlier are Lancer clones with BMW jewelry inside. The profile from this angle borrows heavily from the Acura TL and previous generation VW Passat. The chrome mirrors are Audi S/RS wannabe items (yes, I know cars have had chromed mirrors for 90+ years, but Audi is alone in their modern application).

Even the wheels look like knock-offs from another car.. I just can't put my finger on which one right now. And I'll just gloss over the long standing kidney grill debate.

After the Solstice (gorgeous and original), I was hoping there was some kind design renaissance going on at Pontiac. I guess not.


M
 
Why are the headlights Lancer clones? I just see a vaguely similar shape.

BMW isn't the only one allowed to have black headlight backing, or whatever you want to call it, and why can't the Pontiac have HID?

The previous gen Passat was the most generic looking car around, but I still loved my dads, it was a very nice car.

Also, you can get chrome mirrors on MINIs and VeeDubs, so I don't see why it is a derivitave factor.

But you are right about the TL thing.
 
Why are the headlights Lancer clones? I just see a vaguely similar shape.

attachment.php


The shape is close enough that I call "separated at birth"

BMW isn't the only one allowed to have black headlight backing, or whatever you want to call it, and why can't the Pontiac have HID?

Who said anything about what Pontiac is allowed to or not allowed to have? Of course Pontiac should offer HID headlights.

I said the style of the 'jewelry' inside the headlight cluster is VERY similar to BMW's treatment of one their cars, the E36 in particular. Two round light elements, one 'plain' and one with 'irises'.

Here's is an E36 M3.

attachment.php


You can also look at any E46 with HIDs and see the same thing. But on the E46, the 'irised' eyes are on the outboard side... exactly the same configuration Pontiac chose for the G8.

Also, you can get chrome mirrors on MINIs and VeeDubs, so I don't see why it is a derivitave factor.

I'm fairly certain Audi's been doing it for longer. Chrome mirrors are trademark feature of the S/RS line. Just like 'angel eyes' are a BMW trademark feature.


M
 

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I want one. I dont care if it has taken stuff from other cars. It looks great inside and out, and I want the GT version with a 360+ Horse V8. Add some borla's and a supercharger.
 
Uhm, you realize that the headlights and stuff are off of the Commodore, Right? you know, like just about everything?

holden_commodore_ve_drive.jpg


If anything, It's derivative of that guy up there.
 
Uhm, you realize that the headlights and stuff are off of the Commodore, Right? you know, like just about everything?

Thanks Jim, I didn't know that.

Well that changes everything. So now instead of saying "the G8's styling is derivative of the TL, Passat, Lancer and 3-series", I can say "the G8's styling is derivative of the VE Commodore, which itself is derivative of the TL, Passat, Lancer and 3-series."

I like it. Much more succinct that way.


M
 
///M-Spec:

The TL, Passat, and 3-series are very well-proportioned cars and the G8 is not alone in imitating them. In fact, they have done quite a bit to define the styling on the majority of sedans on the road today.

I don't see it as a problem. If anything, you are paying the G8 a compliment.
 
^

Skip, don't get me wrong: it's a nice looking car. I think Pontiac has actually improved on the basic Commodore with the trim choices. It's just that the Solstice was/is such a sweet looker I'm a little surprised at how.... predictable the G8 is. The bar was set high. That is all.

But hey.. what do I know about styling? I drive a car that at first glance looks like it was shunted in the paint shop and no one noticed. :sly:


M
 
But hey.. what do I know about styling? I drive a car that at first glance looks like it was shunted in the paint shop and no one noticed. :sly:
I concur. :p
 
Thanks Jim, I didn't know that.

I thought I explained that pretty well in multiple posts in the first two pages.

Now you mention the headlights they do reassemble Lancer lights, but as for the blacking out thats pretty generic as many auto makers have make blacked out backing.

Even the wheels look like knock-offs from another car.. I just can't put my finger on which one right now.

Yeah the HSV VE series (HSV Commodore) :p

21HSVTobyM_m.jpg
 
I concur. :p

Oh fine. Kick a man while he's down in a moment of self deprecation :grumpy:

I thought I explained that pretty well in multiple posts in the first two pages.

Yeah, I saw your posts. Somehow it must have slipped my mind in the intervening week (it's been a long one). C'mon man: gimme a break, I read a couple hundred posts a day around here.


M
 
$10 says it'll be too expensive for what it is; it'll fail to undercut Chrysler, and it won't sell nearly as well as the 300, or as Pontiac thinks it will.

By the way, does this replace Bonneville, or is Grand Prix finally finished? That'd be a shame, although the most recent GTP and GXP models will be worth looking at used very shortly.
 
The G8 kills off the Grand Prix and signals the beginning of the end for the W-Body. The Chevrolet Impala will go next, followed by the Buick LaCrosse by the end of the decade. Don't be surprised if they keep the Grand Prix on sale for a year or so after sales of the G8 begin, however, make no mistake that the G8 is meant to be it's replacement.

...As for the Bonneville in question, the G8 is meant to partially cover that territory as well, however if you want to look for a direct-descendant, that would have been the Buick Lucerne.

If we want to talk chicken for a moment, the Pontiac G8 will be going against the Dodge Charger, not the Chrysler 300. Low-lying V6 models will start in the low-mid $20K range, and will pack more power than the 3.5L Charger SXT. Take it to the next level, and the around $27K G8 GT will literally wipe the floor with the Charger R/T given the higher power, lower price, better build quality, and most importantly, the inclusion of a manual transmission as an option. Hell, even then, the G8 GT will have an extra cog in the gearbox even optioned as an automatic, so that puts it at a healthy advantage.
 
The article gave no pricing. Where did you get your numbers?

If the V6 starts at $25k I can guarantee you completely that the V8 will start nowhere near $27k. Start at $31k and go from there. And since it's GM it'll probably be $32500 and they'll put stuff like "driver message center" on the standard features list to make up for the fact that leather's too expensive to make standard.
 
I'll post the entire article then:

Car and Driver . COM
Pontiac has been pushing itself as a performance brand for years while peddling not much more than plastic ribs and dual-nostril snouts pasted onto underwhelming Chevrolets. Woo hoo. The 400-hp, rear-wheel-drive GTO was a good start, but looked like everything else on the road all rolled into one large, formless blob. It foundered, died, and may or may not return, depending on whom you ask.

Then Pontiac rolled out the Solstice, a delightfully tossable little treat with oh-my-god good looks and performance to match. We started to pay attention to Pontiac. After all these years, is Pontiac going to try to capture our attention with product, rather than marketing? At the Chicago Auto Show this week, the Poncho crew is doing just that with the G8 GT.

A little extra show for Chicago, but still exciting in the showroom

The G8 GT Pontiac showed in Chicago is not, in fact, exactly what the G8 GT is going to look like when it hits showrooms early in 2008. This car is dolled up with a few SEMA-style tweaks that will not make it into production. For example, if you like the 20-inch wheels, tough nuggets. They won’t make the cut. Ditto for the ride height (production will be about a half-inch higher), the paint color, the hi-po brakes and painted calipers, and most tragically of all, the lovely two-tone leather interior. An available sport package will include alloy pedals and a leather-trimmed steering wheel and shifter, but the leather-wrapped dash is a show-car one-off. So sorry.

On the other hand, take a look at what will make it into production: a 6.0-liter V-8 delivering a 362-horsepower and 391 lb-ft whack to unwitting passengers; a choice between six-speed automatic or six-speed manual transmissions—the manual not available until shortly after launch—and prairie-fire smoke billowing off the rear tires. Some semblance of environmental responsibility will be maintained with cylinder deactivation in low-load situations. The V-8 will headline the G8 GT, while base G8s will get the General’s DOHC 3.6-liter V-6 making 261 hp and 250 lb-ft twisting a five-speed automatic. We figure the GT’s combo ought to be good for 0-to-60 runs in less than 5.5 seconds, with the quarter passing in the low 14s at right around 100 mph. Braking duties will be handled by 12.6-inch rotors clamped by two-piston calipers up front, with single-piston calipers in the rear pinching 12.8-inch rotors. Rotors on base G8s will be about an inch smaller at each end. ABS is standard on all models.

Prices for this rear drive Grand Prix replacement should start just under $25,000 for a base V-6 model, about $27,000 for a bare-bones GT, and into the mid-$30,000 region for a loaded GT.

Based on serious architecture to take down serious opponents

Just as the cost-saving but soul-sapping front-drive architecture is gone, Pontiac is cutting no corners with the G8’s suspension, either. Each wheel of the G8 will be independently suspended, the front end riding on struts and the rear on a four-link setup, with anti-roll bars both front and rear. V-6 models will come with 18-inch wheels, while the GT gets 19s and stiffer suspension tuning. Actually, Pontiac shouldn’t get all the credit, or even much credit at all. Holden, GM’s Australian arm, designed and built both the platform the G8 is built on and the G8 itself. This is the first North American look at the platform formerly known as Zeta—now Global Rear-Wheel Drive—that will eventually underpin the production Camaro as well as the next-generation Impala and possibly a GTO replacement.

A full-size, rear-wheel-drive, V-8–powered sedan from an American company? Who’s thinking Chrysler 300/Dodge Charger? GM is. Both inside and out, the G8’s measurements are similar, if not a smidge bigger, to the DaimlerChrysler twins in all critical dimensions. The G8’s length (196.1 inches), width (74.8 inches), and height (57.7 inches) are all within an inch of the Chrysler 300’s measurements. On paper, the 300 has a slightly roomier back seat, but the G8’s 17.5-cubic-foot trunk trumps the DCX boys by more than a cube.

On paper it’s a good match-up, but does it have the looks to go after the segment’s pretty boys?

Dimensionally, the G8 is locked onto the Chrysler and the Dodge, but stylistically it takes a much different approach. Whereas the DCX cars are characterized by high waistlines, tight greenhouses, and bold faces, the G8 gets the more conservative styling of the Holden Commodore sedan upon which it is based. There are no muscular fender bulges, just a flared stamping around the wheel well. An upright greenhouse doesn’t look as menacing as the 300’s broad shoulders, but will provide excellent visibility lacking in the Chrysler and is actually lower by a fraction of an inch.

The most exciting aspect of the G8’s styling is its divisive front end, which endows the otherwise characterless nose of the Commodore with a trio of split intakes stacked atop one another and bisected by a common tapered line. It is distinctively Pontiac, but not particularly attractive. More than one staffer here has drawn a comparison to the Dodge Caliber, particularly in SRT4 guise. Even so, this appears to be another competitive performance machine from Pontiac, and the company’s most exciting sedan in decades. We’ll just have to wait and see what the Poncho will do about those SRT8 cars.

So, yes indeed, this is the car to knock-off the "standard" LX cars. Until the LY chassis makes it's debut, DCX doesn't have much to go off of. The pricing sticks it square into the competition, actually undercutting them just by a bit, and the obvious advantages in power, technology, and quality are there as well.

...Now if Ford will just build the Interceptor, then we'll have a party on our hands...
 
Agreed on the Interceptor. That thing is just monsterously cool. And as far as the 300/Charger vs G8, I think they will be evenly matched in price vs equipment. It will come down to either personal preference and or the salesman selling them the car. Having to choose between the Charger R/T and the G8 GT I'd choose the G8 GT hands down. No contest, and I really like the Charger too.
 
I liked the Charger when the car first came out, but after getting inside of one, I lost all hope for the car. The interior plastics are dismal in quality, and anything outside of the HEMI-powered R/T is simply a poor choice of automobile. Build quality is sub-par, and generally speaking, they only receive attention because of the outstandingly American style, fairly reasonable prices, and of course the fact that you can buy a true V8, RWD American sedan once again.
 
You know what, I'd have to make an acception for the Charger in one aspect. I can live with the rubbish interior quality if I had an R/T or SRT-8. The good looking exterior and engine/exhaust noise pushes my special buttons. Though, I'd still rather have the G8 GT.

Holden > anything from Chrysler
Holden > almost anything from Ford (US)
 
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