War is hell

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For anyone who's bothered by it, I apologize for being so, um, active today. But I wanted to share this. You all already know about it.

MIAMI - Surviving members of a family whose van was fired on by troops in Iraq said they were traveling toward allied lines because they thought an air-dropped leaflet had advised them to flee for safety.


In a report published Wednesday in the Miami Herald and other Knight Ridder newspapers, Bakhat Hassan said American soldiers had waved his family's car through a checkpoint as they left their village Monday. But at the next checkpoint, the soldiers fired.


"We were thinking these Americans want us to be safe," Hassan, 35, said through a translator.


Hassan, interviewed Tuesday by a Knight Ridder correspondent at the Mobile Army Surgical Hospital near Najaf, said 11 members of his family were killed in the incident — his daughters, aged 2 and 5, his son, 3, his parents, two older brothers, their wives and two nieces, ages 12 and 15. His wife, Lamea, who is nine-months pregnant, said she saw her children die.


"I saw the heads of my two little girls come off," said Lamea Hassan, 36. "My girls — I watched their heads come off their bodies. My son is dead."


U.S. officials originally said seven were killed; reporters at the scene placed the death toll at 10. Hassan's father later died at the Army hospital. A brother who is being treated there may not survive, a doctor said.


Another brother, a sister-in-law and a 7-year-old child were released to bury the dead.


The soldiers who fired on the family were following orders not to let vehicles approach checkpoints, U.S. officials said. Troops in the area were on edge after an Iraqi army officer posing as a taxi driver killed four soldiers in a suicide attack Saturday.


The Hassans decided to make the journey after an American helicopter dropped fliers over their farming village that showed a drawing of a family sitting at a table, eating and smiling, with a message written in Arabic.


Sgt. 1st Class Stephen Furbush, an Army intelligence analyst, said the message read: "To be safe, stay put."


But Hassan said he and his father thought it just said, "Be safe." To them, that meant getting away from the helicopters firing rockets and missiles.


"A miscommunication with civilians," said an Army report written Monday night.


The family of 17 packed into its 1974 Land Rover. Hassan's father drove. In his 60s, he wore his best clothes for the trip through the American lines: a pinstriped suit.


"To look American," Hassan said.


They planned to go to Karbala. They stopped at an Army checkpoint on the northbound road near Sahara, about 25 miles south of Karbala, and were told to go on, Hassan said.


But "the Iraqi family misunderstood" what the soldiers were saying, Furbush said.


A few miles later, a Bradley Fighting Vehicle came into view. The family waved as it came closer. The soldiers opened fire.





Hassan remembers an Army medic at the scene of the killings speaking Arabic.

"He told us it was a mistake and the soldiers were sorry," Hassan said.

"They believed it was a van of suicide bombers," Furbush said.

Hassan and his wife were lying in cots next to each other in the green Army hospital tent. He had staples in his head. She had a mangled hand and shrapnel in her face and shoulder.

"It would be better not to have the baby," Lamea Hassan said. "Our lives are over."
 
What about this scenerio:

They we're actually bad people, who wanted to be mardured for the cause, knowing that it woul dback-fire like this because there were children involved.

I know it's sick, but I think we should take every possibility into account. This could've been pre-planned,... no likely, but possible.
 
Agreed. If nothing else, the Viet Cong showed us how easy it is to make a good army look bad. The guerilla Arabic minority now have even better TV coverage to use to that effect.

I'm not saying at all that I think this is how it happened - but I'm saying it's possible. I'm reminded of a time a few years ago when a cop around here shot and killed a teenager who had pointed an unloaded gun at him. The poor cop got creamed by the public for it. I remember thinking at the time that I'd like to see one of those people calling him a murderer be put in the same situation, and not do the same thing.

It is a true shame that this family was devastated so badly. But I can't say that I think the soldiers did the wrong thing.
 
Originally posted by Red Eye Racer
What about this scenerio:

They we're actually bad people, who wanted to be mardured for the cause, knowing that it woul dback-fire like this because there were children involved.

I know it's sick, but I think we should take every possibility into account. This could've been pre-planned,... no likely, but possible.

Completely agree. Talk is cheap.
 
I feel no particular need to defend the soldiers or those killed in this incident. It was a bad thing... but not necessarily bad people. The questions hovering around it, like flies hovering around a rotting carcass, only make it more ugly, more tragic. It's just why war really is hell. To turn a blind eye or defensively justify the actions of either side in this incident only shows how hard it is for us to accept the cost of war, even while we may so easily support it.

I don't see how you can be supporting the troops or the idea behind the war if you're not hurt by this. If it's easy you're not doing it right.

So, yeah... Talk is cheap.
 
As a person who is active in the United States military who recently deployed to both Kuwait and Afghanstian I can honestly say WAR is HELL! War is wrong and sometimes war makes a difference. Everyone not only has their own opinion but their own reason for supporting or nor supporting the war. I support the ideal end result of the war that truly frees the Iraqi people. Is that what will happen? I can only pray and hope others feel the same way I do. Do I hope Saddam is removed from office... removed isn't the word. I have spent many years in different countries around the world, and I understand why America is viewed as it is. I don't agree with many of their views. We (the average military member) don't make decisions however we believe in the cause of freedom. The "soldiers", "airmen", "marines", etc... don't care crap about oil, money etc... My concern is my family. Their safety. The American citizens and their safety. The victims of the World Trade Center, the victims of any terrorists activity in the US or worldwide. Am I my brother's keeper? My service in the US Air Force speaks for me, "Yes I am!" 👍
 
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