Was going for Quality over Quantity a good decision for Gran Turismo?

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by Farnell42, Sep 6, 2019.

  1. Farnell42

    Farnell42

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    As a regular viewer of GTPlanet, I had often seen posts around GTPlanet with Gran Turismo fans insisting that all cars should be detailed and "Standard" cars should be left out in Gran Turismo 6 when it was about to be launched. Our wishes was granted later, in the form of Gran Turismo Sport, wheret all cars now had functioning interiors and all cars were graphically improved. However, the car list was chopped from 1000~ to around 200. Over-the-air updates added more cars on the way and GT Sport is now no longer an immature title as it was at launch. However, I wonder what would happened if the development team chose to prioritize quantity over quality. Polyphony themselves have claimed that it took more than 3 months to make ONE premium car for Gran Turismo Sport. At the same time, they claimed that it took a month to make one car for Gran Turismo 4, and it took one day to make one car for Gran Turismo 2. Considering that it took 1 month to create a Standard car in GT4 back in 2002, it might take even less time now, PD having access to better 3D modeling software and more manpower. With that being said, I would say that Gran Turismo could have attained much more if they went for quantity over quality. Remember that GT5 was delayed 3 times simply to make time to make more Premium cars, and even then, 2 cars were left as Standard cars as PD was unable to detail those cars in time. Imagine if Gran Turismo 7 existed, and had every vehicle returning from GT2, GT4, and more. They might even add new cars to the mix. All this is possible when you forgo quality for quantity. Of course, it isn't entirely positive(they might spend more time trying to find which Miata variant is left out than to add a TVR Tasmin, for example), but at least it will serve GT better, in that it might be able to make GT different from other sims in terms of broadth and enable it to have a unique selling point.

    What's your opinion; was Kazunori's decision of "Quality over Quantity" a right decision for Gran Turismo?
     
  2. W3HS

    W3HS Premium

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    I could probably live with about 20 cars provided they were varied enough.

    Look at it this way — if all the cars were offered as free downloads from the start and the game came with 0 cars, how many would you download?
    Or alternatively, if a car would disappear from the game if it wasn’t used frequently in relation to others, how many would you have left?

    Quality over quantity any day of the week.
     
  3. SestoScudo

    SestoScudo

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    It depends a mix of both is fine by me.
     
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  4. Kevstah2004

    Kevstah2004

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    With laser scanned cars it’s all about licensing, the reason you aren’t seeing many cars is because PD aren’t willing to pay massive royalties, it’s no different to Codemasters being limited to a single season even though they have scanned models of the past 10years done.
     
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  5. 05XR8

    05XR8

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    Seeing the direction of GTS and how the game debuted, there only had to be Gr.3 and Gr.4 type cars from each manufacturer. In the real world, there aren't many to choose in those classes that PD based them on. We'd be looking at half what we got in those two classes. The 100+ cars the game came with, was pretty generous for what the game started as(I didn't see it like that and nether did the GT community).

    Just to piggyback on this. Imagine buying the game today or deleting all cars from your garage, which cars would anyone choose? Players pretty much know and only really need:

    1 Gr.1
    1 Gr.2
    1 Gr.3
    1 Gr.4
    1 Gr.B
    1 N100, N200, N300, N400 or N500
    1 SF19
    1 Gr.X Red Bull(whichever one is need for Nations)

    If a player wants to play through GT League ONE TIME, use a car from the groups above, add an extra N-awd road car and if chosen wisely, one of those first N cars is a Ferrari or Lamborghini.
     
  6. oper8or

    oper8or

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    Quality > quantity

    100 good cars > 1,000 mostly crap cars & variants/duplicates
     
  7. twitcher

    twitcher

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    Myself, I could never live with just one car from each class. You don’t have to play the game too long to realize there are meta cars from each class for various tracks. If I’m being super competitive/sweaty, I’ll definitely want all of the meta cars so that all my bases are covered, regardless of what the weekly tracks are.

    On top of that, I rarely do more than 2-3 races in a row without changing cars, just because I enjoy variety.

    If the game was a job, where all you had to do was go through it and tick off the boxes, then I agree, you pretty much need 1 of each like you said. For me to have fun with the game though, I prefer the variety. Not saying I want PS2 models in GTS, just saying that “one of each” isn’t really enough for me.

    In theory, PD could put a single, perfectly modelled car in the game, and Sport Mode would still function largely the same, just with no variety on track. That might actually make GTS a better sim, but it necessarily a better game.
     
  8. Kevstah2004

    Kevstah2004

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    Isn’t BOP supposed to render everything the same as one make so there’s no performance advantage???
    Yet it’s more like just running extra ballast?
     
  9. twitcher

    twitcher

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    Not necessarily. I think BoP is more about making different cars produce the same lap time. The way they go about producing that lap time can be different though. Some cars are fast in a straight line, others are fast through the corners.
     
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  10. Kevstah2004

    Kevstah2004

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    Yeah that’s what I mean a Sambus is never gonna keep up with a X-Bow, that’s why everybody cheats and just picks the highest rated car from the rankings or basically the lightest car cos it’s supped up to meet the requirement.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2019
  11. 05XR8

    05XR8

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    For sure. I like to role play at times. I clear my garage all the time. Like now, I have only the #6 TS050, GR Supra RZ, GT3 RC F '17, Gr.4 86, SF19 Toyota, RC F GT500, Trueno and NSX R(just did a photoshoot with the last two). I'm grinding to get the Red Bull for Nations tonight. So, this topic is inline with what I was doing today anyway. :)

    Put the META aside and just look at it as a fresh game. Sport Mode pretty much gifts you what you need. Pick a Manufacturer and you're done. What ever other cars you need for the Daily Race and odd N Nations, you can use a Gr.B/Gr.3 Road car from Mileage exchange or do a Circuit Expeirence until a car is gifted that fits whatever regulations.

    I would like to think everyone can agree the car list is a good quality car list. Take away the groups/classifications. For someone's first introduction into Gran Turismo, it has formula cars, drift cars, time attack, classic race & road cars, modern race & road cars, a few new cars, future cars, economy, electric, hybrid, fantasy. It does have everything in this small, for GT, car list.
     
  12. twitcher

    twitcher

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    I’d agree with you that the car list as a whole is actually pretty good. Obviously it’ll never be perfect, always room to improve.

    The categories and the way the cars are balanced (ie not balanced) hurts the “feel” of the overall car list, as it feels like there are a lot of random cars that don’t really belong anywhere, and end up hardly used.

    Of course the other side of that coin is the “museum/exhibit” aspect of GT games that many people have mentioned. In that sense, it doesn’t matter what category a car fits in, it’s more about telling a piece of history. If that’s the case though, just taking Porsche as an example, the Porsche lineup in GTS does a pretty terrible job of telling the story of Porsche. Additionally, I’d argue that fictional Gr4 cars and VGTs don’t really have much relevance in a game that would be focused on documenting automotive history.

    So then we end up at the discussion going on in a different thread, whether or not the franchise is spreading itself too thin, trying to be too many things to too many people. The collection of cars assembled in GTS is a good collection of cars, it just lacks direction.
     
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  13. SestoScudo

    SestoScudo

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    I get the standard cars getting scrapped why did the premiums of both gt5 and gt6 needed to get scrapped??
     
  14. GTV0819

    GTV0819

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    Which cars specifically?
     
  15. SestoScudo

    SestoScudo

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    Ferrari fxx, 430 scuderia, ferrari sp1, diablo gt2, reventon and many others.
     
  16. LotusEvoraGTE

    LotusEvoraGTE

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    Honestly going the "quality over quantity" route has been a double edged sword for the series.

    On one hand we don't have to deal with any of the eyesores that are Standard cars anymore (I've been looking at the GT6 vs GTS comparison photos and holy actual hell the Standard cars look awful) plus the cars we do have now look the best they've ever been. (save for a few cars... coughFT1cough)

    On the other hand it sometimes feels like they went a step too far with cutting down on the quantity; it still feels like there's a few glaring omissions in both the car and track list. And with how slow PD can be to work on Super Premium-quality cars, it makes the wait for them feel like an eternity...
     
  17. SestoScudo

    SestoScudo

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    Just exactly how I feel I never played GT5 or GT6 especially the last generation I only had a 360 so I mainly played Forza and PGR. Gt5 and GT6 has some nice premium cars which I actually want to drive like the Ferrari Sp1 and the Diablo GT2 along with the various Super GT cars like the Supra and 350z.
     
  18. T_revisio

    T_revisio

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    Racers don’t care about long car lists, motoring enthusiasts do. GT Sport is a racing game.
     
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  19. MikeV27

    MikeV27

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    Quality all day

    For me a massive car list doesn’t make a racing game “great” by any means. I also love PD’s attention to detail.
     
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  20. ShiftingGears

    ShiftingGears

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    I don't mind it. But the car list isn't balanced at all, and their attempts to add cars like the R8 Gordini or the Porsche 930 (finally) is welcome but really highlights that there's nothing to readily race them against. They should never have invested in VGT cars.
     
  21. Stephan

    Stephan Premium

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    Quality over quantity I'll take it all day.

    When they went for that I was very happy for PD's decision to go for that route. Sure I'll miss some cars from GT5 and GT6 regardless of their status as a premium or standard but I'd be willing to play the waiting game (which is happening right now) as long as all cars are equally detailed.
     
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  22. LotusEvoraGTE

    LotusEvoraGTE

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    Thanks for that, Captain Obvious. Forza, Need for Speed, The Crew, iRacing and Project CARS are racing games too.
     
  23. Liquid

    Liquid Premium

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    Worked for Gran Turismo 3.
     
  24. Nielsen

    Nielsen

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    The wrinkled standard cars don't belong on PS4. Even on PS3 they were a stretch. No worries since PD is now giving some of them the super premium quality treatment.
     
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  25. GTV0819

    GTV0819

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    If the succeeding GT title will have the same premium quality for cars like GT Sport while having more quantity of cars than it, then it would be even better. Of course, the PS4 is a powerful console so it's only natural that it should be more realistic that way.

    Sadly, it can't be overlooked that VGTs, concept cars and any other related cars to them still don't feature a proper interior in the game. It's given that it is because they're not disclosed or licensed by the respective brands of each car but it's kinda disappointing to see.
     
  26. xBSxChadSpeed

    xBSxChadSpeed

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    For me the game is so much more detailed, looks, sound, and feel seem all unique to each car. I would rather have this all day over a huge list of mediocre looking cars, that sound poor, and all drivetrain layouts feel identical.
     
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  27. GTV0819

    GTV0819

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    There's a funny thing though. Kaz noted that the new Gran Turismo would be a combination of the past, present, and the future. What does this exactly imply then?
     
  28. Sploshington

    Sploshington

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    For me, 200 "premium" fully modelled cars, that I can drive each in VR > long list of needless and boring year specific slight variations on MX5s and Skylines, EVERY TIME.

    I have my small set of cars that I ALWAYS use and I'll only bother with the others in the game, when they're specifically needed. For me, if there weren't so many cars I have to use for career races, I'd probably only end up using 5 at the most :D I don't race online, so I don't need a large set of cars to worry about competing - but that's just me. "Career" mode and hot lapping and making the odd livery attempt are all I love doing in GT Sport.

    So, for me, Quality over quantity is an absolute must.

    That said... I understand that they no doubt take a long time to make, but I am still pretty disappointed in GT:Sport's track list. I genuinely think it's far too few even now. Other games, have similarly amazing graphics AND many more tracks to choose from. AND still have procedural (?maybe the wrong term) weather and real time day to night effects. I always feel that there's some kind of Polyphony Perfectionist attitude to some things in GT and it's causing the track content to sit around a lot, being fussed over too much before release.

    I know it's probably months of work per track, but yeesh, it feels like the output is slow. Car output seems just right, especially seeing as they're added into the game for free. They had to pay people, many hours, to make each one and they allow us to get them for a reasonable amount of in-game credits if we want ( of course, we can buy them, but we really don't need to unless you're REALLY impatient to get them ).

    EDIT: And of course, a slight note to my track output complaint. They've all been free. I cannot fault Poly AT ALL for giving us their hard work for free every time. I can confidently guess that other companies would be selling us each new track for £7.99+ at a time. I sound like I'm being pretty entitled I know. It just feels slow I guess. I miss old favourites that have been in most other GTs and I know new ones will still be coming along. Just wish that more survived over from GT6. I guess Poly must see GT:Sport as a different game and those tracks don't figure in an online focused game perhaps ?
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2019
  29. Haitauer

    Haitauer

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    For GT Sport it is right decision. I hope they continue to evolve GT Sport as e-sports on ps5 and create separate carpg game similar to Forza Horizon. We really need FH for Playstation. Its the only thing i envy on xbox..:O
     
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  30. TonyJZX

    TonyJZX

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    I didnt have much issue with the premium cars in GT5/6 so I would have rather they just slab imported the ps3 premiums and created a new set of "PS4 premiums".

    To be realistic, any game from Oct. 2017 that's still being supported two years later is great.
     
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