Water injection ......

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kikie

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...... or not. That's the question.

Two years ago, I mentioned in a thread that I had installed a hydrogen system to reduce fuel consumption. I remember that Niky said that it wouldn't work. Problem was that I already installed it. After 7 months and a lot of communication with the guy that installed the system, I found out that Niky was right. It didn't work! :ouch:

Although it was one of his conditions, he wouldn't take back the system and give back my money. So I decided to sue him. To make a long story short, my lawyer won the case and I recuperated more than 60% of the money and I still have the system lying around on the attic.

Niky spoke in this thread about a water injection system to reduce fuel consumption and increase power.

It has been brought back to my intention and I would like to know more about water injection systems.

* Is worth while or not?
* Is it compatible with all gasoline engines (age, type, etc... .)?
* Is there a possibility that such a system damages the motor?
* Advantages and disatvantages
* etc.....

Info: this last year, I did around 6000 km (3550 miles) a year. Normally I do around 10.000 km (5917 miles) a year.

Well, let me know what you think or know about these systems and if it is worth while to spend money on a system like that.
 
Isn't water/or methanol injection for boosted engines to allow them to run a higher level of boost without overheating? I always just thought it was a performance thing.
 
Cooling effect in the cylinders. It's for reducing engine knocking an increasing power output. But I believe I red somewhere that it is also for saving fuel. And that's what I'm after.
 
It is pointless to install it on a stock engine. You'll need a highly tuned engine to make it work.
 
^This.

If you want to save fuel, look into eco chip tuning. You will get not a lot more horsepower compared to a "normal" chip tuning. But it will save you some fuel.

http://www.skn-tuning.de/en/ecoinformation.html

I don't know your model (Mondeo, right? ) but here is an exemple:

http://www.skn-tuning.de/de/kategor...=1&kategorie=781&hersteller=-1&radgroesse=-1&

As long as you apply no more than 75% of the gas, you will get 20% economy, the last 25% is more for a safty reason, and it's there that the few HP will come into play.

I'm not quite familiar with how, but that should be the big lines.
 
If you want to get good mileage, then change how you drive.

I can get 45mpg out of a 2.0L Focus that's only rated for 30-35mpg, you just have to drive smart. Reduce brake use and try to anticipate the flow of traffic.
 
Ibonibo
^This.

If you want to save fuel, look into eco chip tuning. You will get not a lot more horsepower compared to a "normal" chip tuning. But it will save you some fuel.

http://www.skn-tuning.de/en/ecoinformation.html

I don't know your model (Mondeo, right? ) but here is an exemple:

http://www.skn-tuning.de/de/kategor...=1&kategorie=781&hersteller=-1&radgroesse=-1&

As long as you apply no more than 75% of the gas, you will get 20% economy, the last 25% is more for a safty reason, and it's there that the few HP will come into play.

I'm not quite familiar with how, but that should be the big lines.
Click to expand...
Nope, doesn't work for my car, which I already knew.

http://www.skn-tuning.de/de/kategorie780.html?marke=457&modell=311323&motor=311328&fahrzeugtyp=1&
 
I've heard about people doing this way back when in street cars to bump up power for drag racing. Not sure if it actually works for creating horsepower, but I've heard a lot of modern engines, specifically higher performance ones such as the Coyote 5.0 have water injection ports that supposedly cool the pistons.
 
Slashfan
I've heard about people doing this way back when in street cars to bump up power for drag racing. Not sure if it actually works for creating horsepower, but I've heard a lot of modern engines, specifically higher performance ones such as the Coyote 5.0 have water injection ports that supposedly cool the pistons.
Click to expand...

Key information in bold. Again, you'll need serious modifications to use this system, you will gain nothing on a stock or slightly modified engine. Maybe in a Diesel you'll gain something but I wonder if that is still the case with the modern Diesels.
 
Dennisch
Key information in bold. Again, you'll need serious modifications to use this system, you will gain nothing on a stock or slightly modified engine. Maybe in a Diesel you'll gain something but I wonder if that is still the case with the modern Diesels.
Click to expand...

I was always unsure if it actually had any real effect anyways. Just seems like a waste.
 
A few days ago I read that Saab had a water injection option on their stock cars.
 
kikie
A few days ago I read that Saab had a water injection option on their stock cars.
Click to expand...

Yeah, on a classic 99 turbo, but it did very, very little. I believe the option was removed after a year or 2.
 
To answer my own question according to my previous posters;

>>> No, it's not worth while installing a water injection system, or is it?

 
I've heard a theory about how water injection might help prevent wear thus making an engine last longer but I don't know if that's exactly true either. I kind of see where the idea comes from though.
 
I get a bit of Tell Sell feelings from that video, as if all of the sudden someone would yell : That's amazing, Mike!

But think of it this way, if it does work, why hasn't it been implemented much more often on cars?
 
Good point.
 
From what I'm to understand "Meth" injection is used on cars with high tolerances, and even high heat issues. Usually on FI engines the water is used to help cool the motor, and while you aren't really making anymore horsepower, your not loosing some of it due to the heat as the motor runs. I'm not sure it really helps economy at all.
 
Meth injection is used by some of the folks on the Grand Prix forum I'm on. The ones that run supercharged L67's at high levels of boost use it.

I don't know anything about it because my GTP never got to the power levels that would need it. I don't know how it works, but I know they just used regular washer fluid and injected it in the cylinders somehow. It reduces/eliminates knock on boosted engines.
 
oopssorryy
From what I'm to understand "Meth" injection is used on cars with high tolerances, and even high heat issues. Usually on FI engines the water is used to help cool the motor, and while you aren't really making anymore horsepower, your not loosing some of it due to the heat as the motor runs. I'm not sure it really helps economy at all.
Click to expand...

It is a high performance application, I too (when I was young) looked into water/methanol injection and I feel you'd get better fuel economy from a supercharger (with changing your habits). The system is meant for being able to churn out high hp numbers at high compression ratios and what not which helps cool instead of wasting fuel and I think it increases density. However, there is something called intercoolers that come in various sizes that achieve the same idea in a much easier application I'd say.

The only time I've heard about this being fuel efficient and high power output is during my aero classes when talking about propulsion systems old and new.
 
Adamgp
Meth injection is used by some of the folks on the Grand Prix forum I'm on. The ones that run supercharged L67's at high levels of boost use it.

I don't know anything about it because my GTP never got to the power levels that would need it. I don't know how it works, but I know they just used regular washer fluid and injected it in the cylinders somehow. It reduces/eliminates knock on boosted engines.
Click to expand...

How it works is, when the methanol evaporates, the latent heat cools the charge significantly. Cooler charge = reduced knock/detonation. (There may be an additional octane-increasing effect too, as I recall, ethanol has a high octane rating.)
 
Slashfan
I've heard about people doing this way back when in street cars to bump up power for drag racing. Not sure if it actually works for creating horsepower, but I've heard a lot of modern engines, specifically higher performance ones such as the Coyote 5.0 have water injection ports that supposedly cool the pistons.
Click to expand...

IIRC, they were called oil squirters. I dont remember ever reading they were injecting water...
 
Blackbird.
IIRC, they were called oil squirters. I dont remember ever reading they were injecting water...
Click to expand...

According to several locals around here, both oil or water can be used apparently.

I've never tried it so I wouldn't know.
 
You drive under 10,000 km a year with a 4 cylinder engine. To make up for the cost of the system, you would have to drive the car for over 10 years for the fuel savings to add up to more than the system + install.

If saving on gas means that much to you, sell your car and buy an electric car, a hybrid or a 3 cylinder.
 
The money I would spend on buying an electric car is money that I can use to drive my current gas guzzler for a very long time.
 
SRV2LOW4ME
You drive under 10,000 km a year with a 4 cylinder engine. To make up for the cost of the system, you would have to drive the car for over 10 years for the fuel savings to add up to more than the system + install.

If saving on gas means that much to you, sell your car and buy an electric car, a hybrid or a 3 cylinder.
Click to expand...

You want the OP to spend and waste more money, if that's the case he ought to buy the system your against. I don't know why you'd suggest a more expensive alternative that will take even longer to potentially reap the benefits from saved money due to no fuel costs or lack of needed fuel.
 
I know of a person, whom doesn't live that far, who works for a company who develops systems or engine like the Ford Ecoboost and has a lot of knowledge about water injection.

I think I'm going to see if he can help me and answer my questions. If I do, I report back and post everything I learned. :p
 
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LMSCorvetteGT2
You want the OP to spend and waste more money, if that's the case he ought to buy the system your against. I don't know why you'd suggest a more expensive alternative that will take even longer to potentially reap the benefits from saved money due to no fuel costs or lack of needed fuel.
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Because he'll already be in the red for years after spending money on the system before the money he saves on gas equals more than what he paid. By that point he may not even want the car anymore, and unless he's able to transfer it onto his new car, what was the point of buying it?! To be in the red and then go deeper into the red with the purchase of a new vehicle?

That's why I said go electric, hybrid or smaller engine if he's so worried about saving money on fuel.
 
Kikie, I'm not sure if you've checked out www.ecomodder.com before but it's the place to go to research these kind of things, and Niky is a member there too.

They also have a very useful wiki
http://ecomodder.com/wiki/index.php/Water_injection

In brief, it's not worth doing on a petrol engine.

On a wider note, considering the low mileage you do it probably includes a lot of short city driving. Which would suggest the extra burden of a water tank would probably reduce much of the benefits from the combustion.
 
I think water injection is mainly just for high performance forced induction engines. I don't think it will be worth spending money on it just for saving fuel. Any possible fuel saving would probably be cancelled out by the air being more dense and the car needing more fuel anyway.
 
Appreciate all the help and advice. ;)



ExigeEvan
Kikie, I'm not sure if you've checked out www.ecomodder.com before but it's the place to go to research these kind of things, and Niky is a member there too.

They also have a very useful wiki
http://ecomodder.com/wiki/index.php/Water_injection

In brief, it's not worth doing on a petrol engine.

On a wider note, considering the low mileage you do it probably includes a lot of short city driving. Which would suggest the extra burden of a water tank would probably reduce much of the benefits from the combustion.
Click to expand...
Thanks! 👍
 
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