We are so spoiled.

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ritterkreuz
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So, from my perspective, you're an %$&# liberal! Also joking.

My point is that it's not a bail out option (nice choice of words, BTW :sly:). It's the logical way to do it. You make it as hard as you personally want it to be. Now, if there are some that the best drivers can win with no upgrades, which it sounds like there are, then I would agree they screwed those up.

Agreed 👍
 
I feel spoiled, for many reasons.

First off, for the fact I can afford a PS3, a driving wheel, a HDTV and GT5.

Second, it is a very entertaining game. There is nothing in the same league like it (for the PS3).

I could not imagine how hard it must be to make something like this and all the time and effort that when into it.

I am very happy with GT5. I play it every day with a big smile on my face. And with each update it keeps getting better and better. :)

..
 
I feel spoiled, for many reasons.

First off, for the fact I can afford a PS3, a driving wheel, a HDTV and GT5.

Second, it is a very entertaining game. There is nothing in the same league like it (for the PS3).

I could not imagine how hard it must be to make something like this and all the time and effort that when into it.

I am very happy with GT5. I play it every day with a big smile on my face. And with each update it keeps getting better and better. :)

..

A message from the more silent majority, I expect.

Well said.:cheers:
 
And remember that other developers would have money for those seasonal events (new missions whatever)...

I tried the Ford GT event and changed nothing on my buyed car. Sport hard tyres and after 2 laps I still was on #12...

Maybe people must not buy racing tyres and then say its too easy...
 
The Season 3 update threads got me thinking. Sure, there's been a lot of back and forth in them, but no, this isn't a thread about taking sides. No, this is about how spoiled we are.

Remember GT1 on the the original PlayStation, or even GT2 for that matter? When you bought those games that was it. No updates, no seasonal challenges, no online anything. If you wanted to race a friend you called them over and had to do a 2 person arcade mode race.

So, whether you think the challenges are too hard, too easy, just right, or whatever, just think back to those days when we literally got nothing at all after we bought the game. Be thankful that PD as well as many, many other developers continue to update products we've already paid for.

Actually we aren't spoiled...It is reasonable for us to expect updates and stuff like that because we are in an age where that kind of thing can easily be applied.

We also aren't spoiled because what we pay for games reflects that. If I wanted to play GT1 now, it would cost me like $4.99, but I want to play the new GT5, so it's going to cost me a hell of a lot more.

Just because technology becomes more affordable doesn't mean we are spoiled. It also means technology is easier to produce for the masses.

Again I say, we are not spoiled, we are simply paying for current technology. Spoiled would have been getting the technology of today when we bought GT1 for its regular price back in the day.
 
So, whether you think the challenges are too hard, too easy, just right, or whatever, just think back to those days when we literally got nothing at all after we bought the game. Be thankful that PD as well as many, many other developers continue to update products we've already paid for.

Uhm... Think back to the PS1 or even SNES days. How many games do you know that game out with major bugs back then? Not as many as today, because developers have been spoiled by being able to send out updates and bugfixes as well.

Nowadays, a game can be 'safed' from mediocricy by those patches. Back in the day, it would've been dead and that'd be it.
Sure, we, as gamers, get something good out of it, but so do developers. DLC, for example. It's not like they're doing it out of courtesy, you know.

That's something I can't stress enough: The reason PD (or any developer, for that matter) is patching their games isn't because they're nice and want to bring a little smile to our face, but because it'll make them money in the long run.
 
Im a bit conflicted about it-on the one hand I like that we can have updates to games, enhancing the experience. On the other hand though, it certainly seems to me that these days a lot of the updates are just to fix the game. I can understand stuff like that on a PC platform-everyone has different set-ups so fixes are bound to be required. On consoles though, the platforms are all the same, and so it seems the tendancy is now to release games not 100% finished with the attitude that they can always fix it later if its a major problem that people complain about. I am of the opinion that if I drop £45 on a game, I expect it to be glitch and problem free- I used to be able to understand the price difference between PC games and consoles because of this. Now, there is still a price differential, but the reason for it is no longer valid. I can cope with glitchier games if the price is lower
 
Remember GT1 on the the original PlayStation, or even GT2 for that matter? When you bought those games that was it.


GT2 didn't need anything else to keep it interesting. 👍

The way the races were set up, allowed for endless runs using different vehicles for each category to see how they performed. It also had a perfect testing set up with the 400/1000/ and Test Course.
And I seem to remember it had a random event generator once you finished the game, so that the fun never ended.

And having a friend over, in person for 2-player, was awfully good on the social life. :sly:

I spent almost 2 years with GT2 before finally giving in and buying GT3.

GT2, was the best one so far (for me anyway) and I wish PD would take a LONG hard look at how they pulled that one off when it comes time for GT6.
 
Maybe... everyone hold their breaths again... some changes must come like retire Kaz, add more western feeling, evolve the game towards a game with a huge social base (motor fans all over the world)... and more, more, more.
Why should they orientate future GT titles more toward a Western feeling?

Unbelieveable!
 
U can say devs are spoiled too. Back then, it was either release a game complete or truely disappoint(GT4).

Now days, they can release half finished then update later.
 
Dead on. It is game developers, not us, that are spoiled.

Earlier, non-patchable versions of this (or any other) game, the franchise rose or fell on whether it WAS any good or not. Now, developers like PD can rush out (yeah, right! Only took them six years!) unfinished product with nary a warning that it is incomplete, charge full price (as opposed to GT5p, which at least had the decency to admit it was a halfway step and didn't cost full price), and then a void their liability by 'promising' (but without any details as to WHAT they are promising) to update it via patches into what we all thought we were buying in the first place.

But this practice will only continue if we allow them to do it. If GT5 doesn't end up (and I'm talking of in less than a year) as the PERFECT game we all wanted (or at least as perfect as GT4, which is all we wanted), shame on ANY of you buying the next GT game... You will have seen the warning signs, and done nothing about it.

You will be the very people cutting the crust of PD's baby bread. DON'T baby them. Hold them to account. And DON'T buy the next game on pre-order. Wait until it is shown to have been completed.

Bet you, if we all took THAT pledge, PD would sit up and take notice. But while post after post by GT fanboys excuses every bad thing and glaring omission, and many post they will pre-order no matter WHAT, well, expect exactly the same thing if not worse NEXT TIME...

PD, you've been SERVED!
 
I think it is a simple case of trying to do too much. Just the idea of modeling or porting over a thousand cars is a huge undertaking, not to mention modeling of the tracks. Of course PD has Sony to deal with, trying to reach their expectations and deadlines, as well as the players' expectations. Then you have to consider them trying to implement online, which really was never truly implemented in the previous versions, except on a very basic level.

If we think about just the cars, they have to be modeled both graphically and from a physics standpoint. This means using artists and coders that could have been working on polishing and refining the rest of the game.

I think that PD should have focused on fewer cars, which would have freed up resources to complete the game sooner. This would have given them time to "finish" the game, but still deliver it sooner, and at a better quality, than they did. Cars and tracks can always be added later, either as a patch or DLC, but you can only release the game once, which will affect sales over the lifetime of the game.
 
What about the players who have no internet? I bet they're chuffed with GT5, because they aren't here reading everyones complaints.

They should come out of the stone age and then they'll be able to enjoy their technology more.
 
I guess my question as a relatively new PS3 owner is this. Is GT5 worse than the competition that exists at this moment?

I know there was a level of expectation that for many the game did not reach. But my question is how many of its competitors on the PS3 (which I will admit to not having played) are better? I am legitimately curious.

I know there is the 6 year cloud that hangs out there. I hear "they had 6 years and this is all we get" but if I think about it everyone else has had 6 years as well. And if the answer to my question before is that even in its current unsatisfactory to many state this game is better than other PS3 alternatives then maybe this is what was possible in 6 years and expectations on users part and on PD's ambition part were overstated.

I think the level of accountability and expectation is higher than ever. I know in the PC world being the post sale beta tester has been going on for years. And even back in the Cartridge world and non internet world games were released that just didn't work in some areas.

But now with the fate of holiday console sales and peoples jobs hanging in the balance with every major platform exclusive release combined with an ability to patch and enhance with DLC I think profits do play a roll in release schedules.

I would expect the game would continue to evolve and be shaped by the total community feedback, the thousands of hardcore users here and usage feedback from the millions in the total installed user base. So the real question is if this is currently the best racing game on PS3 then how long before someone unseats it and what pressure for continued development with that fear have on PD. I would expect they are watching the progress of Shift 2 with a keen eye to try to be sure they are positioned strongly when it arrives.
 
As it has been said in this thread, it has nothing to do with being spoiled. Patching games and DLC that was exclusive to PC games a decade ago is now used in console games. We didn't push for this change, the industry did.

Game developers now have less pressure knowing games can be fixed later, leading to more ambitious release dates.

'Spoiled' would be if PD bought my copy of GT5 and I was complaining about the lack of features of the game.
 
Call me cynical, I expected much more out of this title. Are we really spoiled by GT5? I'll spare this thread my list of items which I feel are substandard, but I hardly feel any of the updates/new events have met or exceeded my expectations for this title.

I suppose the point the OP is trying to make is that we are spoiled by the fact that publishers can offer us new content via the internet. That is all good and fine, but I'd argue that publishers have rushed titles to market more times than not, knowing they could use the internet to fix titles which shouldn't be released in the first place . . . effectively making all of us pay to be beta testers. I'm not feeling all that spoiled . . .

I loved the "Pole Position" stand up arcade game when I was twelve, does that mean I should feel spoiled by GT5 at 40 years old?
 
still remember bringing my memory card to college to shut some people up ;)
 
I'm really not sure what that means. More NASCAR, more drag racing? Can someone please expand on this?

I'm quite sure PD should have forgone NASCAR entirely or made a whole sub-game out of it. I personally enjoyed EA's rendition of the series more. And why only a handful? Surely identical interiors and exteriors virtually should make it easy to reskin all 43?

But the biggest gripe (for me at least) with NASCAR is that there are NO Dodge ones... for a MOPAR guy this hurts! NASCAR is big enough it ought to be its own game... it just doesn't mesh with the rest of GT in my opinion.

Although I DO think if PD made a NASCAR-exclusive game it would be epic if done right!
 
What he said ^

Plus, although I am enjoying GT5 for what it is at the moment, more offline races are much needed. Currently level 33A, 34B, grinding enduros, and having a romp in online every so often (for a measly 2-5000xp per race, regardless of how close the racing is).
Now unless PD does a good deal with any following updates, I think I might be spending more time on Test Drive Unlimited 2 when it comes out. Sure it's not the most realistic racer around, but if number 1 is anything to go by, its going to be a damn sight more fun. And thank goodness Hardcore Mode is going to be returning :)
 
well NASCAR is going to get is own update in February with NASCAR 2011 the game from Eutechnyx. The license is no longer owned by one company so we will see what develops from that. Also I am intrigued by the first bits of news out of Shift 2 in spring.

So it will be interesting to see what PD's response is to possible strong competition for dollars sooner rather than later.
 
The Season 3 update threads got me thinking. Sure, there's been a lot of back and forth in them, but no, this isn't a thread about taking sides. No, this is about how spoiled we are.

Remember GT1 on the the original PlayStation, or even GT2 for that matter? When you bought those games that was it. No updates, no seasonal challenges, no online anything. If you wanted to race a friend you called them over and had to do a 2 person arcade mode race.

So, whether you think the challenges are too hard, too easy, just right, or whatever, just think back to those days when we literally got nothing at all after we bought the game. Be thankful that PD as well as many, many other developers continue to update products we've already paid for.

Games will never get better if we all thought like this.. We are not spoiled at all, times change and technnology gets better, so we expect the best, when something new is released. If we all thought like you we would all still playing GT2 saying what a great game it is.
 
Dead on. It is game developers, not us, that are spoiled.

...

You will be the very people cutting the crust of PD's baby bread. DON'T baby them. Hold them to account. And DON'T buy the next game on pre-order. Wait until it is shown to have been completed.

While a lot of your points are true, I do think that we are also spoiled in that games take a lot more money to make now than they used to. I recall premier SNES games costing $60-70 back in the early 90s. We are able to pay less (not even adjusting for inflation) and get some amazing art and models in our games compared to that day and age. Many would argue that the gameplay doesn't hold up to those old games. But I still think games cost a lot more to make nowadays.

Of course, technology has enabled developers to do a lot more. But I still think we get a lot more than what we used to per dollar.
 
While a lot of your points are true, I do think that we are also spoiled in that games take a lot more money to make now than they used to. I recall premier SNES games costing $60-70 back in the early 90s. We are able to pay less (not even adjusting for inflation) and get some amazing art and models in our games compared to that day and age. Many would argue that the gameplay doesn't hold up to those old games. But I still think games cost a lot more to make nowadays.

Of course, technology has enabled developers to do a lot more. But I still think we get a lot more than what we used to per dollar.

Your point is invalid, as game developers make more money now than they ever used to, and have an extreamly big budget to work with. The game industry is the biggest thing in the entertainment world and they make the most money.

Like others have said game developers are way to spoiled make too much money and are lazy.

Taking 6 years with less tracks than GT4 porting over the same cars, and then having this premium car thing well Im sure what they spent 6 years on, is the stitching in all the ferrari's...

Gamers are not spoiled, developers are as they know people would pay good cash for absolute rubbish, if its advertised in the right way.
 
LOL talk about being optimistic, unfortunately in today's world the consumer loses more often then not with developers releasing incomplete games with the attitude that they can just fix it up later with Patches and DLC
 
I wouldn't call of spoiled. It's called progress. Expecting modern convenience in a AAA game is normal. Remember the days when you had to go home or find a payphone to call someone?

Games are far more complex now too. If you want all the bells and whistles you have to deal with the increased bugs and errors. The worst was the xbox ps2 era where you had big complex games and no updates
 
I'm really not sure what that means. More NASCAR, more drag racing? Can someone please expand on this?

Please NO:nervous:
I've golded all NASCAR events and not touching my NASCAR again.

They could however include de Australian V8 races I loved those races in TOCA/DTM3 on the PS2 or other race series.
Rally Raid would be fun.
 
I'm not sure if I can share the opinion of the OP. I agree that we should be thankful that PD continues to improve this game, solely on the basis that they as well could just call it a day and start working on GT6.

On the other hand, GT5 was pushed out unfinished, so they are merely continuing work on their product on the fly. This work however is something they would have done either way if they would have had more time, so I don't think that "thankful" is the right word. They are merely continuing to do what they should have done in the first place.
 
I feel spoiled, for many reasons.

First off, for the fact I can afford a PS3, a driving wheel, a HDTV and GT5.

Second, it is a very entertaining game. There is nothing in the same league like it (for the PS3).

I could not imagine how hard it must be to make something like this and all the time and effort that when into it.

I am very happy with GT5. I play it every day with a big smile on my face. And with each update it keeps getting better and better. :)

..

It's like you took the thoughts in my head and put them into words. Very well said. 👍
 
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