We need a wheel only lobby

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hennessey86

hennessey86

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hennessey861
It has become apparent to me that if I am racing someone who is good with a pad I don't stand a chance. I'm not to bothered about winning every race, but I do want to race and with good pad users I am left trailing. I am quite good with the wheel, I have set some decent times in the rivals mode so I know I am not terrible. The fact that this game was designed for the pad with the wheel an add on has a lot to do with it, so I think turn 10 needs to get a wheel only lobby going so the people who have invested 300 plus pounds on a wheel can enjoy some competitive multi player. Also a quick note on the update, its made the game even harder for wheel users so we need wheel lobby now.
 
In my experience from GT5, a decent wheel driver will absolutely demolish a good pad driver, so i assumed that it'd be the same in Forza...
 
MChrome
In my experience from GT5, a decent wheel driver will absolutely demolish a good pad driver, so i assumed that it'd be the same in Forza...
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In gt5 this is the case but in forza not so much, I would destroy most pad users on gt5 and did many times but forza is primaraly a pad users game
 
I swear I saw you in a thread the other day saying you need a wheel only lobby because people who use a pad are crap and crash into you, but now they're too fast? Most people say that they are a little slower with a wheel at first, but after a bit of practice they smash they're previous PB's
 
Magic Town
I swear I saw you in a thread the other day saying you need a wheel only lobby because people who use a pad are crap and crash into you, but now they're too fast? Most people say that they are a little slower with a wheel at first, but after a bit of practice they smash they're previous PB's
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Yip good old hypocrisy, I seen that too, infact i even posted in the thread.

Any good wheel player will certainly stand a better chance at winning a race (OMG just like GT5). Its not like GT5 is magical and gives wheel users some kind of advantage.
 
Magic Town
I swear I saw you in a thread the other day saying you need a wheel only lobby because people who use a pad are crap and crash into you, but now they're too fast? Most people say that they are a little slower with a wheel at first, but after a bit of practice they smash they're previous PB's
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Most people who race with a pad are crap, they maybe fast but they have no idea how to race or what racing is about. but there are some good ones out there can actually use a control pad to drive well and its these that this thread is aimed at because I feel the pad is an advantage in the right hands. I'm no hypocrite either my friend!!!
 
hennessey86
Most people who race with a pad are crap, they maybe fast but they have no idea how to race or what racing is about.
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This doesnt make sense. Just because someone is using a pad they dont know how to race? It can be said for wheel users as well. Just because you have a wheel doesnt mean your automatically a race legend.
 
ImaRobot
This doesnt make sense. Just because someone is using a pad they dont know how to race? It can be said for wheel users as well. Just because you have a wheel doesnt mean your automatically a race legend.
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like I said "most pad users" and no I don't claim to be a legend but one thing that is certain is I no how to race properly. I bought a wheel because I take racing games seriously.
 
hennessey86
I bought a wheel because I take racing games seriously.
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Too seriously, it seems.

Anyways, personally, I am mostly using a pad, but I usually can beat my own personal bests quite easily when I get my hands on my friend's Fanatec.

Maybe you're just not as good with the wheel as you thought? Just an idea. No offense, but there are a lot of people who tend to overestimate themselves.
 
This wheel only snobbery has always bothered me. I use a wheel and have used wheels for some years now and it seems obvious to me that there are idiots no matter whether they use a wheel or a pad.
 
hennessey86
like I said "most pad users" and no I don't claim to be a legend but one thing that is certain is I no how to race properly. I bought a wheel because I take racing games seriously.
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play with friends or play offline then if its such a problem for you. I can bearly get a few good races in online before someone starts messing up everyones fun. Its expected in public lobbies.
 
hennessey86
but there are some good ones out there can actually use a control pad to drive well and its these that this thread is aimed at because I feel the pad is an advantage in the right hands. I'm no hypocrite either my friend!!!
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Obviously if someone is faster than you on a pad, it must be because the pad gives them an advantage.:rolleyes:

You crack me up.:lol:

If somebody is fast, they are fast, you could stick 🤬 🤬 in an RB7 and he would make it seem like the HRT is the best F1 car. I frankly couldn't care less what everyone else is using as long as they respect me while on track.
 
hennessey86
It has become apparent to me that if I am racing someone who is good with a pad I don't stand a chance. I'm not to bothered about winning every race, but I do want to race and with good pad users I am left trailing. I am quite good with the wheel, I have set some decent times in the rivals mode so I know I am not terrible. The fact that this game was designed for the pad with the wheel an add on has a lot to do with it, so I think turn 10 needs to get a wheel only lobby going so the people who have invested 300 plus pounds on a wheel can enjoy some competitive multi player. Also a quick note on the update, its made the game even harder for wheel users so we need wheel lobby now.
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This post makes no sense. At all.

hennessey86
Most people who race with a pad are crap, they maybe fast but they have no idea how to race or what racing is about. but there are some good ones out there can actually use a control pad to drive well and its these that this thread is aimed at because I feel the pad is an advantage in the right hands. I'm no hypocrite either my friend!!!
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And neither does this one.

Know what else doesn't make sense? The placement of this thread: it isn't a question, just you saying "we" need a wheel-only lobby because you've invested X amount of money, and "in the right hands" pad users apparently have an advantage.

You know what that advantage is? It's called "skill". :dopey:
 
Whether someone uses a pad or not is no measure of how seriously someone takes 'racing' or their knowledge of racing. I know I didn't drop $700 on a wheel because I would rather use it in my real life racing.
Nothing against wheel users, I would have one in a heartbeat if I could
 
I'm an avid motorsport fan and rabid Forza racer but i use a pad. I'm not the fastest by any stretch but regularly hit top 1000, rarely top 500 times just from my times during career races. I enjoy tuning my cars and love racing them. However i stick to Cycled Production online and always finish top 5, regularly winning. Does this make me want a controller only room because lesser skilled wheel users pit me or have no racing etiquette or are just slow? Hell no. That'd make me the biggest, elitist numpty thinkable....
 
Terronium-12
Know what else doesn't make sense? The placement of this thread: it isn't a question, just you saying "we" need a wheel-only lobby because you've invested X amount of money, and "in the right hands" pad users apparently have an advantage.

You know what that advantage is? It's called "skill". :dopey:[/B][/COLOR][/FONT]
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I don't know T. The more I play this game the more I have to say there is some advantage to using a controller. I think controller probably is more advantageous in hotlapping. Take for instance getting loose in your car. With my steering wheel at 900 degrees and take car X on track Y. I get loose and the car is gone. I'm in a wall (mind you , this is all with the latest patch from T10). I take the same car X on track Y and I get the same looseness but I can always recover. I might get squirrelly but I can always recover and keep moving. For obvious reasons the controller has buffers but it seems the buffers may still help too much at least in relation to a 900 degree wheel setup. Now if I put the wheel at 270 or less then I'm getting closer to equal footing with the controller.

Skill is ultimately the most overriding factor I just think when skill is dead equal the controller just might have the edge.
 
Dunno, from my experience, I can usually improve upon my lap times, mostly because using a wheel isn't anywhere near as twitchy as the controller. I can be more precise with it, and am usually more consistent, which, I think, might be even more of an advantage while racing than it is while hotlapping.

I might just suck with the pad, though, so, who knows...
 
hennessey86
Most people who race with a pad are crap, they maybe fast but they have no idea how to race or what racing is about. but there are some good ones out there can actually use a control pad to drive well and its these that this thread is aimed at because I feel the pad is an advantage in the right hands. I'm no hypocrite either my friend!!!
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So because I race with a pad, I am crap? Personally, I would rather take that $700 bucks that could be spent on a racing wheel and spend it on my 1972 911T that I autocross, hillclimb, and trackday regularly. But thats just me.
 
t.o.
I don't know T. The more I play this game the more I have to say there is some advantage to using a controller. I think controller probably is more advantageous in hotlapping. Take for instance getting loose in your car. With my steering wheel at 900 degrees and take car X on track Y. I get loose and the car is gone. I'm in a wall (mind you , this is all with the latest patch from T10). I take the same car X on track Y and I get the same looseness but I can always recover. I might get squirrelly but I can always recover and keep moving. For obvious reasons the controller has buffers but it seems the buffers may still help too much at least in relation to a 900 degree wheel setup. Now if I put the wheel at 270 or less then I'm getting closer to equal footing with the controller.

Skill is ultimately the most overriding factor I just think when skill is dead equal the controller just might have the edge.
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That's because most racecars don't have 900 degrees of rotation in their steering wheels.

You're better off running at a 270 degree setting for any of the racecars, as that mimics real life.
 
t.o.
Skill is ultimately the most overriding factor I just think when skill is dead equal the controller just might have the edge.
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I don't think it would be wrong to assume "my skill" is 100% equal with myself. So that's one factor out of the way.

I have 90% of my game time spent in FM4 using a controller. But yet in hotlap situations I can better my times in about the same amount of laps with a wheel (270° MS wheel). I'm starting to tire of people making up excuses. You will be faster with your preferred device. End of.

The only disadvantage to wheel users in this game is the awkwardness of using a button clutch but many people manage it well enough. and Fanatec have something planed even for that coming soon.
 
I'm Motarded
I don't think it would be wrong to assume "my skill" is 100% equal with myself. So that's one factor out of the way.

I have 90% of my game time spent in FM4 using a controller. But yet in hotlap situations I can better my times in about the same amount of laps with a wheel (270° MS wheel). I'm starting to tire of people making up excuses. You will be faster with your preferred device. End of.

The only disadvantage to wheel users in this game is the awkwardness of using a button clutch but many people manage it well enough. and Fanatec have something planed even for that coming soon.
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Have you ran with a 900 degree wheel?

I prefer the wheel, yet I seem faster with controller. Been using wheel WAY more in Forza than controller. So I guess "You will be faster with your preferred device" theory is "end of" now.

And what do you mean Fanatec "have something planned" for wheel users not to have to use buttons for clutch. They already have a clutch and stick?
 
I use nothing but gamepads on console racers, and nothing but my Logitech G25 on PC sims. As far as console games go FM4 doesn't have terribly great input "filters" for the controller.

On "Normal" steering, countersteer response is inconsistent, it's way too slow to react in low-speed situations such as those "autocross" gates, and it refuses to deviate from its speed-sensitive angle limits, which is a problem for AWD cars in tight cornering or drifting.

On "Simulation," countersteer control is wildly boosted and intrusive, and you can never really tell where the steering is because there's still speed-sensitive angle limits, but they change and move around in ways I haven't been able to figure out yet.

I can drive and drift around fine with the controller, but I'm finding myself taking less-than-ideal racing lines because the steering turns in more than I expect for small inputs, and slower than I expect for large inputs. And I can certainly recover from oversteer OK, but I have trouble keeping it away because if I'm proactive the game steers too much, and if I'm reactive the game responds too late.

Add in the fact that controller users can't use the manual-clutch flat-shifting exploit as effectively as wheel users can, and the idea that controller users have an unfair advantage becomes rather shaky. But I don't think they have an unfair disadvantage, either. We're always at the mercy of the control input programmers -- if we have a problem with it, we can pony up for a wheel.
 
t.o.
Have you ran with a 900 degree wheel?

I prefer the wheel, yet I seem faster with controller. Been using wheel WAY more in Forza than controller. So I guess "You will be faster with your preferred device" theory is "end of" now.

And what do you mean Fanatec "have something planned" for wheel users not to have to use buttons for clutch. They already have a clutch and stick?
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If 900° is too much for people to handle they have the option to reduce it. What options do the owners of non fanatec wheels have? None, But they don't complain about fanatec users having the options. In fact they haven't made a squeak of sound since the launch of FM4. It's mainly people intent on using 900°

And no I haven't ran 900° in the game but I have a wheel capable of doing so. I only use 900° on the PC for the sake of realism not for the sake of being fastest, for that I use 270-540° and in FM I would not waver from that philosophy.

http://www.911wheel.de/?q=node/7389

Button clutching:

To map a button to work as an analog axis is ok as long as it does not bring any speed advantage. Due to the many complains of our customers and the absolutely legitimate desire to stay competitive with a wheel against a user with a controller we decided to ...
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[Edit]

Here it's explained in a review of the new elite wheel. I guess all fanatec users can expect 'auto-clutch' in a firmware update in the near future

A video demo of auto-clutch in action with the elite wheel here
 
How can you tell someone is using a controller or wheel? Assuming they didn't mention it.

Also, using a wheel to me is about the experience as I have never raced for real so it is as close to any motorsport I will get. Only real fault I see with someone using a controller over a wheel is that they do not get the full experience of sim/semi sim racing, just my opinion of course.
 
MuchoJimbo
How can you tell someone is using a controller or wheel? Assuming they didn't mention it.
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Since manual clutch is such a pain with the controller, particularly on default controls, in Rivals mode I assume someone used a wheel if the "Transmission/Clutch Assists" column is blank. A half-circle or circle is inconclusive.

In the middle of an online race, I'm not so sure. The way the game addresses lag (position updates + simulated path of travel) can make any smooth driver appear erratic and twitchy.
 
As a pad user, who plays the game with no assists, I can hold my own against wheel users just fine. I even win, and sometimes by quite a bit.
 
Justin
Obviously if someone is faster than you on a pad, it must be because the pad gives them an advantage.:rolleyes:

You crack me up.:lol:

If somebody is fast, they are fast, you could stick 🤬 🤬 in an RB7 and he would make it seem like the HRT is the best F1 car. I frankly couldn't care less what everyone else is using as long as they respect me while on track.
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Just have to pick you up on something. Vettel would not win a GP in a HRT. He would be lapping quicker than any of the HRT drivers but he couldn't get that car to top 15 let alone win.

If your struggling to understand why this could be just research Kolovalinen before he raced a lotus, or Button in the Honda years before Brawn and McLaren....... you need a good car regardless of how good a driver you are .
 
artboy76
Just have to pick you up on something. Vettel would not win a GP in a HRT. He would be lapping quicker than any of the HRT drivers but he couldn't get that car to top 15 let alone win.

If your struggling to understand why this could be just research Kolovalinen before he raced a lotus, or Button in the Honda years before Brawn and McLaren....... you need a good car regardless of how good a driver you are .
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I never said anything about Vettel, or him winning in an HRT. It's was meant to be a joke about He Who's Name Shall Not Be Mentioned.
 
It's definitely true that us wheel users have it harder. However I don't play the game to be competitive and win races, I play to have fun, and using a 900 degree wheel with all the assists off is by far the most enjoyable experience I can have in Forza. That said, I still hold my own well enough against controller users that I can finish at least top 4 most races, if not higher up.
 
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