We need clutch!

  • Thread starter jurenic
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jurenic

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Hi evryone, I'm long time participant, first time poster. Just wanted to point out how greate it would be to use clutch playing GT4. I know what u're going to say, it's imposible, it's hard, but if you look at the game "Live for speed", they've got the best simulation of clutch of any games. I konw it's on the PC, but u think it's hard to get used to it? Well I played that game using keyboard, and after like 2 hours i was using it perfectly. And yet, the car has the effect of engine braking, and Heal'n Toe is possible. It's really fun. I wish we had this feature in GT4, but maybe in GT6? :)
 
Why don't you get into a real car if you want to have a clutch so badly?

The software isn't the problem, it's hardware. It's not cheap to make a realistic clutch pedal and a 6-speed stick with a H style layout. You'll be looking at a $300+ piece of hardware if it was designed like a real car.
 
frex actually offers an h shifter and a kit to mod your pedals with a clutch (all for the DFP)
wont work on gt4 or the ps2 tho
 
I play lfs a lot and its cool that the game has a clutch in it. I havent gotten 3 pedals yet, but at least i can clutch kick and do other things. and it just gives you more control over the car. It isnt the worst thing in the world that gt4 doesnt have it. but it would make the game that much better... but where the heck would they put it??they would have to re-arainge the buttons on the controller. :)
 
You should search before you post. :) I made a thread about this called "Clutch in GT5". I think Viper Zero put it best, the hardware is not available, so the code has not been written. (Not to make it seem like writing code ahead of hardware is unusual)
 
Viper Zero
The software isn't the problem, it's hardware. It's not cheap to make a realistic clutch pedal and a 6-speed stick with a H style layout. You'll be looking at a $300+ piece of hardware if it was designed like a real car.
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Nah it's probably not much more expensive than a sequential shifter.. and they just add a third pedal. :)
 
its only expensive atm because its exclusive. if logitech incorporated them into the standard DFP design, it would add at MOST 50% to the cost.
 
Why would the hardware cost $300 , and have to have a 6 h shift .
surely all that needs to be done is to add an extra pedal to the foot box !!
Instead of having a 6 h format , just keep it sequential , as long as the software understands that when you push the clutch pedal , you are gonna change gear .

Its easily incorporated into a game , just needs to be done !!!

Hard driving had a clutch all those years ago , so there is no reason why GT shouldn't be able to add it .

I personally would love a clutch , added to gran turismo , however what would be more diifficult , would be to only use the clutch on cars that would need it .

Road cars , pretty much would all need a clutch , race cars with semi auto paddle shift wouldn't , i would think this would be the hardest thing to incorporate into the game ,not the clutch itslef
 
The DFP doesn't have a H format and a clutch and its already heaps expencive, so I'm guessimg a wheel with those features would.
 
radicool02
The DFP doesn't have a H format and a clutch and its already heaps expencive, so I'm guessimg a wheel with those features would.
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its not heaps expensive.. i dont call £49.99 heaps. and i was willing to pay the rrp when i went to buy one. so im sure the hardcore gt'ers would have no trouble coughing up £130-£150 for it
 
I think that when you shift gears there should be a neutral, like when u press the (button that shifts gears) u should be able to hold it and that would serve as neutral and when u release it it goes to the next gear. This doesn't seem hard to do, and as long as u can still press the gas while still in neutral then it would be nice feature. I just wish we could choose nuetral when shifting gears.
 
there will never be a home game with a clutch, at least not until they get the technology to simulate it right and have it be cost effective. you wanna play a video game with a clutch? find an arcade that has Ferrari F355 Challenge.

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this machine has three screens and a working clutch with a gated 6speed shifter. good luck trying to play it though, it's hard as crap. I drive a manual every day and I still can't control it in that game. why? because the clutch and shifting feel is still not very close to real life... or maybe it's because the local machine here is so old and it's a hunk of junk. nah, because the one in the next city is much nicer but still as hard to drive.

now you may ask "why can't they have a clutch for home games if there actually HAS been a game made with a clutch?" simple... Ferrari F355 Challenge DX arcade cost about 25,000 dollars when it first came out. I'm sure a good hunk of that was because of the complexity of having to create a simulated clutch. I'm sorry, I don't think I'd like to spend 3 grand for a home video game peripheral that still isn't as nice to drive as the car in my driveway.

again, you wan't a clutch... go buy a really cheap used car with a manual tranny. 'nuff said.
 
dori-san
there will never be a home game with a clutch, at least not until they get the technology to simulate it right and have it be cost effective. you wanna play a video game with a clutch? find an arcade that has Ferrari F355 Challenge.

this machine has three screens and a working clutch with a gated 6speed shifter. good luck trying to play it though, it's hard as crap. I drive a manual every day and I still can't control it in that game. why? because the clutch and shifting feel is still not very close to real life... or maybe it's because the local machine here is so old and it's a hunk of junk. nah, because the one in the next city is much nicer but still as hard to drive.

again, you wan't a clutch... go buy a really cheap used car with a manual tranny. 'nuff said.
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In programming terms there is nothing very difficult about about a clutch. With the clutch fully depressed there is zero torque transferred to the driving wheels, as the clutch is released the torque increases in a logarithmic manner. ie 20% of clutch depress is 96% torque/power and 10% is 97%. (I'm guessing on figures but at the top of clutch travel there is little change in friction) This could easily be scaled with a variable for each different car.
The biggest problem is that using the clutch relies on "feel" and would need force feedback pedals. With no feel in the clutch it is hard to find the bite/slip and disengage points. Most clutches are hydraulic, but I have driven cars with cable clutches. (They are designed for people with no strength in their legs :sly: ) I find them horrible as it is hard to feel where anything is, they are too light.
No feel in the clutch would make games like F355 challenge unrealistically difficult as it is hard to judge when to hold the clutch and when to drop it.

I would love to see a full force feedback pedal set (and be willing to pay for it) 👍 The brake pedal as well needs a bit of feel. Most cars have a dead zone in the brakes and when braking hard you need that feedback between you and the pedals.

I've driven dodgy old cars where you actually had to pump the brakes before they felt "hard" enough to stop the car :lol: Even regular bleeding didn't help.

ps another reason they don't have clutches in arcade games is that half the world (ok just America) hasn't heard of them :P
 
well that's funny...drive a real car... that's a pointless comment... what's the point of playing a game then? lets all go racing on the highway?... wow.

As for clutch, its partially because it would involve too much work to make it work (pedals) and it'd be very hard to play with in your living room (you use the clutch as much as the brakes, maknig the pedal stand move all the time). On top of that, i'm sure every study on Racing games show that no more then 20% (estimate) players would actually bother playing manual with a clutch. Its a game, and if you don't have a pedal to shift, forget it.
 
RedOak
On top of that, i'm sure every study on Racing games show that no more then 20% (estimate) players would actually bother playing manual with a clutch.
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Exactly, I'm amazed at how many people still prefer GT with Auto Gears...the shame of it :lol: A clutch (and all the hard work PD would have to do) would be a waste of time for them ;)
 
I heard they are making another Gran Turismo, but not until the PS3 comes out.....the 2 things that would make it the best simulation game is, a realistic car, like the clutch, and realistic damages to the cars when you hit the wall, turn to hard, or going from 6th gear to 2nd gear, which would screw ur car up badddddd.
 
jurenic
Hi evryone, I'm long time participant, first time poster. Just wanted to point out how greate it would be to use clutch playing GT4. I know what u're going to say, it's imposible, it's hard, but if you look at the game "Live for speed", they've got the best simulation of clutch of any games. I konw it's on the PC, but u think it's hard to get used to it? Well I played that game using keyboard, and after like 2 hours i was using it perfectly. And yet, the car has the effect of engine braking, and Heal'n Toe is possible. It's really fun. I wish we had this feature in GT4, but maybe in GT6? :)
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That is all well and good. I'd dig it too but it won't happen. The DFP wheel doesn't have a clutch, I doubt they will be redesigning it anytime soon. It is the "official" GT3 wheel after all.

A clutch with the DS2 is just a bad idea, annoying and dumb.
 
I don't have a problem with not having a clutch in GT but I do have a problem with how fast the game shifts for you.

when going up gears the auto clutching doesn't seem to be quick enough the rev drops too much before the next gear's engaged even in manual mode.
Yes many have said "u'd be surprised how slow ppl shift" but I've compared the rpm drops between up shifts with Best Motoring (japan automotive video magazine) S2000 (stock) vs a GT4 prologue S2000 using manual and up shifting the rpm drops way too much in the GT version than in real life, driven by a race car driver.

Didn't PD want to simulate race car driver's actions? the clutch work needs to be faster I think
Heck even when I drive with my MR2 to the limit and shift and compared to the MR2 in GT, it's the same... revs drops too much in GT

Thats my only gripe about shifting in GT

Artz
 
what the heck?? U guys do know you can buy force feedback pedal sets w/ clutches. and wheels and shifters. I havent seen "force feedback shifters" though. 👍 :dunce:
 
If xbox can do a controller thats massive for steel battalion's , then why cant ps2 ( PD ) make a controller with a clutch on GT ???

Steel battalions seemed to sell pretty well !!!!!!
 
Gabkicks
what the heck?? U guys do know you can buy force feedback pedal sets w/ clutches. and wheels and shifters. I havent seen "force feedback shifters" though. 👍 :dunce:
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Sure you can buy a wheel for the PS2 with a clutch but the DFP is the official GT4 wheel that the game is built for. It is already out and I doubt they will redesign it to ad a clutch. Therefore I doubt GT4 will have a clutch option built in.
 
We don't need anything, and I can name quite a few things I'd like before we bother with a clutch. It's technically possible but that doesn't mean it should or will happen.
 
Well I just had to revive this discussion, seeing as the triangle button appears to operate as a clutch if you tap it while not accellerating, or if you tap it while accellerating with high enough rpms (then it shifts also).
 
I use a professional pedalbox capable of having force feedback. It is working like the real thing (on PC with GTR and Race driver 2). This pedalbox, will be compatible with Playstation (2 or 3), I don't know. The only problem for GT4 is the software. This pedalbox costs $ 590. There will be a professional steering wheel as well. All available (maybe) in the near future for Playstation.

http://www.interactiveracing.com/Pedals/Speed7/
 

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