Weird automotive engineering solutions

[nobuffalo]

Can you imagine a hill-start in a manual-transmission car with a foot-operated parking brake? What a faff...

Yea... it's called taking your foot off the brake and quickly applying the throttle.

I will agree though that I dislike the foot-operated parking brake, but if i'm driving a car that has one i'm more than likely not going to be using it while driving unless I get super desperate for a little sideways action.

I think this thread should have been titled "Weird automotive engineering solutions that suck" since the majority of the talk seems to be about things done wrong. With that said I will not hesitate to add another. The cup holders on many toyotas, mainly my celica. It is placed in a position and level that when shifting to 1st, 3rd, or 5th you will push the rim of a standard 20oz fountain soda right into the buttons on head unit either changing the station or pressing repeat, shuffle, or whatever. And not only that but If any liquid leaks out around the rim of the cup, it spills right onto radio which makes for a perfect sticky buttons.

The cup holder pulls out right above the ash tray, couldn't find a picture I wanted, but you can see what i'm talking about. Also I know it's not really a engineering solution but it sure as hell is annoying.

 

[Turbo Lag]

Yep it's just like that on our Corolla too. Bloody cupholders are right above the ash tray which is a real pain in the ass for instance, in a drive through. You have to hold the drink while putting change in the ash tray, close that, then open the cup holder with one hand. Sounds easy enough but it gets very, very annoying after a while.

 

[Eric.]

It seems that on all single bulbs that have low and high filament in them that only one beam is lit up at a time. I'm not sure about our G6, because the beams are separate, but my Civic's lows turn off when the highs are on.

We're completely backwards in this thread, Keef. My Civic's low beams do stay on with the high beams.

 

[YSSMAN]

The cup holders on many toyotas, mainly my celica. It is placed in a position and level that when shifting to 1st, 3rd, or 5th you will push the rim of a standard 20oz fountain soda right into the buttons on head unit...

In my generation Celica, they were "smart" and installed a pull-out set of cupholders in the armrest between the seats, only problem is that if its anything larger than say a Dixie cup, it makes shifting extremely uncomfortable and a total inconvenience. I had two "Large" sized Taco Bell cups in there today, and while I'm used to it now, I certainly wouldn't have been able to handle it when I first got the car.

My VW Jetta had stupid cupholders as well, a design feature that continued for quite a while in the cars. While they were "out of the way" under the dash, you couldn't fit anything bigger than a soda can down there at best, and ultimately they ended up functioning as change holders for me.

 

[Philly]

The GTI has amazing cupholders.

You can see them down at the bottom. So you can fit two normal sized cups, or a small one (8 oz can sized), or two normal cups and have a great storage space (for phones, wallets, keys) in between. I always keep my phone there when I drive, because it fits perfectly.

And if you need something bigger, at the front of the door trays you can see a little circular bit that doesn't take away form the storage capacity of the tray, yet allows you to fit bigger drinks if you need. So yes, I do have 5 cup holders between the front two seats.

foot-activated parking/ e-brake is a stupid invention in a first place.

They're understandable in Michigan, where nobody even knows what they are. Apparently, I set my friend's e-brake by habit when I drove his car and it took him several minutes to figure out why his car wouldn't move.

I was very surprised to see that the new C Class has a foot operated e-brake though. I would have thought that Mercedes would us a hand operated one.

 

[neanderthal]

The Mercedes rear headrest retractor. Awesome ingenuity.

I have to agree with Leo, I hate the foot pedal parking/e-brakes. I can see how they'd be okay in an automatic once you'd got used to it (but even then you'd still not be able to use it in an emergency situation) but Mercedes are dim enough to use them in their manual cars too. Can you imagine a hill-start in a manual-transmission car with a foot-operated parking brake? What a faff...

Yes I can actually, as the parking brake release is hand operated

 

[homeforsummer]

Yes I can actually, as the parking brake release is hand operated

Unfortunately though, many aren't. Many seem to have the "press once for on, a second time for off" pedal, which means the hill-start procedure (if you're parked, not if you've just stopped in traffic) would require holding the normal brake as you release the e-brake, putting it into gear, and then jumping from brake to throttle and the correct biting point of the clutch before the car rolls back half a foot or more. Doable, but not nearly as simple or smooth as having it in gear and at the correct biting point whilst holding it on the handbrake, and then a smooth transition off the brake and moving off.

 

[niky]

I agree with homeforsummer...

A hand-operated release or a hand-operated parking brake is a must for manual transmission cars... especially for hill starts. Yes, you can get away with applying a little more gas and slipping the clutch, but juggling the clutch, gas and handbrake is infinitely more gentle on the drivetrain.

I really can't understand what's more convenient about having another pedal in the already-crowded foot-well... especially as it takes space away from the dead-pedal footrest.

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Lexus re-introduced the automatic swivelling air-vents? They owe Mazda royalties.

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Another un-clever item is the Ford Focus's locking bonnet. Why in the world you would need a separate lock for the bonnet when you can have it internally triggered, like every other car in the world, is beyond me.

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+1 on whoever mentioned the single Mercedes wiper... the mechanical fluidity of the movement is wonderful... only issue is, it's expensive if you break it...

 

[a112]

What the? Having a permanently open boot to help aerodynamics and cool the engine not wierd enough for you?



+1

That was a race version,and Carlo himself discovered that the car is quicker that way.Later it evolved to the wing type boot.

You could buy street version of the car just like any other normal car.
Almost every other Zastava 750 in auto-x,slalom or hillclimb drives with the boot open here.

 

[Duke]

Can you imagine a hill-start in a manual-transmission car with a foot-operated parking brake? What a faff...

Who uses the handbrake for a hill start after about the first 5 times you do it? Once you figure out the technique, there's no need to ever use the e-brake again.

I've driven cars with foot-operated e-brakes, both manual and automatic, for years, and never had an issue with it. I guess I don't do enough J-turns.

 

[KSaiyu]

Yeah maybe I should have clarified, I brought up the XC90's because of the poor engineering in the whole package that's probably only slightly better than the old VW Polo's pedal boxes (now thankfully redesigned). On hindsight it probably isn't strictly what the thread was intended for, but I will admit that I find a foot operated parking brake a little....weird.

 

[Paulie]

Who uses the handbrake for a hill start after about the first 5 times you do it? Once you figure out the technique, there's no need to ever use the e-brake again.

I've driven cars with foot-operated e-brakes, both manual and automatic, for years, and never had an issue with it. I guess I don't do enough J-turns.

+1, I haven't really done any handbrake hill starts since my license test, it's much easier to let the clutch out to gripping point then jump from brake to accelerator.

 

[Sniffs]

apparently you guys haven't had had seized Parking brakes. every vehicle I've owned but one has had a seized parking brake that needed rebuilt. a lot of people don't bother using them, as they've cleared a flat spot on a dead steep driveway to park in (we're not THAt stupid up here)

personal gripes on my toyota: a push and twist parking brake right next to the center stack (and it WAS seized) smart: putting cupholders where they could be cooled/heated by the HVAC; Dumb: putting said cupholders right on top of the HVAC controlls. dumb: sealing access to the rear lights and electronics if the tailgate window blows

 

[homeforsummer]

Who uses the handbrake for a hill start after about the first 5 times you do it? Once you figure out the technique, there's no need to ever use the e-brake again

I can quite happily tap dance on the pedals but what's the need when you have an easy to use brake to hold you on a hill? Or are you one of the annoying so-and-sos who sits on their footbrake and dazzles the drivers behind?...

 

[Rotary Junkie]

I can quite happily tap dance on the pedals but what's the need when you have an easy to use brake to hold you on a hill? Or are you one of the annoying so-and-sos who sits on their footbrake and dazzles the drivers behind?...

Since bloody everyone drives an autobox here in the states, guess what? It doesn't MATTER if someone with a stick sits at lights on the brakes, because everyone else does it anyway.

Further, the only time I get "dazzled" by taillights is when it's night and the idiot in front has insanely bright LEDs for brake lights.

@ Paulie: You have low-end. And a light vehicle for that matter.

 

[Wolfe]

Since bloody everyone drives an autobox here in the states, guess what? It doesn't MATTER if someone with a stick sits at lights on the brakes, because everyone else does it anyway.

Further, the only time I get "dazzled" by taillights is when it's night and the idiot in front has insanely bright LEDs for brake lights.

Agreed on both. Actually, a friend of mine got lightly rear-ended for letting go of the brake at a stop light. The inattentive autobox driver behind him rolled straight into his bumper, thinking the light turned green.

I was also rear-ended at a light by an autobox driver, but because he was distracted by his kid in the back and accidentally lifted his foot from the brake, not because he was driving forward. I was more annoyed with the automatic crawl than I was with the guy, who was apologetic. The incident would have done more damage to his Chrysler plastic than my shock-equipped metal bumpers anyhow.

How about that for an addition to the thread? It's not very weird (being so incredibly common), but I personally find the automatic crawl to be a very irritating engineering solution. I feel like I almost have to stand on the brake on my parents' cars to keep them from moving. Because of that, I also almost killed my sister and myself once, accidentally creeping out onto a busy 55mph crossroad because I was distracted like that guy that hit me. Shifting to park and back to drive is a solution, but a clumsy one. Personally, I prefer the solution of avoiding automatics forever.

 

[homeforsummer]

Since bloody everyone drives an autobox here in the states, guess what? It doesn't MATTER if someone with a stick sits at lights on the brakes, because everyone else does it anyway.

Further, the only time I get "dazzled" by taillights is when it's night and the idiot in front has insanely bright LEDs for brake lights.

I do much of my driving at night at the moment and given that even modern superminis have high-mounted brake lights, it irritates me intensely that the lazy, useless prats in front of me at traffic lights and so-on sit on the footbrake instead of knocking the car out of gear and lifting the handbrake. These are usually the same utter prats who drive awfully in all other aspects of driving so I suppose I should be thankful that their inability to use a basic function of their car is also highlighting their complete inability to do anything else worthy of the oxygen they use.

[/rant]

Agreed on both. Actually, a friend of mine got lightly rear-ended for letting go of the brake at a stop light. The inattentive autobox driver behind him rolled straight into his bumper, thinking the light turned green.

Even on the occasions I've driven autos (both in the States a few years back and in the United Arab Emirates recently) I've still always knocked the box into neutral and used the handbrake at stop lights. With a little common sense and observation you can guess when the lights are about to turn green again and put the car back into drive and lift off the handbrake ready to go (and seriously, I didn't even get beeped at by the notoriously impatient Arabian drivers so I could hardly be accused of holding up traffic). Sitting on the footbrake in an auto is not only lazy but also causes more transmission wear. Sitting on the footbrake in a manual is just lazy and unnecessary.

When I'm sitting at lights on a main road I hold the footbrake until the car behind me has come to a halt - always safe to make sure they know you aren't rolling anywhere - but I'm considerate enough not to keep my lights dazzling them whilst we sit there going nowhere anyway.

 

[Sniffs]

I do much of my driving at night at the moment and given that even modern superminis have high-mounted brake lights, it irritates me intensely that the lazy, useless prats in front of me at traffic lights and so-on sit on the footbrake instead of knocking the car out of gear and lifting the handbrake. These are usually the same utter prats who drive awfully in all other aspects of driving so I suppose I should be thankful that their inability to use a basic function of their car is also highlighting their complete inability to do anything else worthy of the oxygen they use.

[/rant]



Even on the occasions I've driven autos (both in the States a few years back and in the United Arab Emirates recently) I've still always knocked the box into neutral and used the handbrake at stop lights. With a little common sense and observation you can guess when the lights are about to turn green again and put the car back into drive and lift off the handbrake ready to go (and seriously, I didn't even get beeped at by the notoriously impatient Arabian drivers so I could hardly be accused of holding up traffic). Sitting on the footbrake in an auto is not only lazy but also causes more transmission wear. Sitting on the footbrake in a manual is just lazy and unnecessary.

When I'm sitting at lights on a main road I hold the footbrake until the car behind me has come to a halt - always safe to make sure they know you aren't rolling anywhere - but I'm considerate enough not to keep my lights dazzling them whilst we sit there going nowhere anyway.

it's american habit. as a matter of fact, I've never heard of anyone over here using the handbrake for anything at all (my little rant is above). did you get honked at for that little trick when you drove here in the states? probably not. when I've actually encountered a TRUE handbrake, they're easy release...but american style push pedals, or the damn pull handle on mine will cause Irate honking. and most of us that do do so out of habit...it sure ain't flat where I live, buddy

I don't know what you guys are harping at when it comes to excessivly bright brakelights, though. around here, half the time they don't even HAVE any...I'm also usually out of the line of vision for both low set and high set brakelights, so I can't be dazzled by them (sometimes, I barely see the third brakelight)

 

[homeforsummer]

it's american habit. as a matter of fact, I've never heard of anyone over here using the handbrake for anything at all (my little rant is above). did you get honked at for that little trick when you drove here in the states? probably not. when I've actually encountered a TRUE handbrake, they're easy release...but american style push pedals, or the damn pull handle on mine will cause Irate honking. and most of us that do do so out of habit...it sure ain't flat where I live, buddy

I don't know what you guys are harping at when it comes to excessivly bright brakelights, though. around here, half the time they don't even HAVE any...I'm also usually out of the line of vision for both low set and high set brakelights, so I can't be dazzled by them (sometimes, I barely see the third brakelight)

Nah, never got honked at. As with any other situation, with a bit of forward planning you can be ready just as the lights turn green. Admittedly both the cars I drove had proper handbrakes rather than foot-operated ones. But I really, really don't see the difficulty people have in selecting neutral and using the handbrake. It really is just laziness not to. And as mentioned, downright inconsiderate at night.

But yeah, you're lucky if one in ten cars over here have a full set of working lights. Where the hell are the police stopping all the people driving at night on half a headlight? Or those with only the third brakelight working? I always used to question the relevance of having an extra brakelight but now I understand - if there are those too sodding lazy to bother repairing their normal ones when the bulbs blow then it's vital to have a third just to let people know if they're actually braking or not.

I'm really in a ranting mood tonight...

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

It really is just laziness not to. And as mentioned, downright inconsiderate at night.

For us it isn't, since we weren't trained to do it.

 

[nobuffalo]

Lazy? Inconsiderate? I wouldn't call anyone those things for not doing something that isn't necessary. Perhaps you should cry to the automakers for placing the tail lights in such a high position, or tell them to stop making them so bright. I have never once been bothered by someone in front of me with their brake lights on, nor do I know anyone else who has or cares.

I can understand if you're stuck in traffic and haven't moved in a few minutes, but if you're at a light for a whole 30 seconds, come on. And you can't argue that is isn't safer to hold your brakes, because even if people should be paying attention, sometimes they aren't and those "dazzling' lights just might notify them a little sooner that you're not moving.

 

[Keef]

Holding the brakes is "lazy"? The hell are you on about? Using the parking brake at every red light is what's lazy, because you can't be bothered to hold your foot down for a little while. Sitting at a red light is not a time to lounge back, and using the parking brake for anything except parking is dangerous. Good luck letting down that e-brake, putting the car in gear, and gassing it in a split second when you see that car behind you isn't going to stop in time. I've had to do that before, and since my car was already in gear I handily avoided that rear-ender.

That is one of the most weird driving habits I've ever heard of.

EDIT:

Who uses the handbrake for a hill start after about the first 5 times you do it? Once you figure out the technique, there's no need to ever use the e-brake again.

I've driven cars with foot-operated e-brakes, both manual and automatic, for years, and never had an issue with it. I guess I don't do enough J-turns.

I agree with Duke. I've never used the hand brake to start my car on a hill. It's called "learning to drive a stick". It's rare I roll backwards more than 6 inches, even on steep hills.

A foot-operated parking brake is just a fine idea. It allows for a wide bench seat to fit lots of people, like in a truck or van, and nothing on the floor to get in the way of the middle passenger. It's been done that way since the beginning of time over here in the states. You European people just have weird, impractical car designs. It's like you've never seen a work truck with three guys sitting up front before.

 

[Paulie]

@ Paulie: You have low-end. And a light vehicle for that matter.

It might be easier in my Ute, but I do it in every car I drive, and I drive lots of different Fords at work.

 

[Jay]

Lately I have been going into neutral at every light (I drive manuals 95% of the time) and I find at most interections the car doesn't roll and a very slight amount of handbrake will hold it if it decides to creep. I don't expect others to do it, and like others I can't stand auto's creeping, some cars you need a fair bit of pressure to keep it still.

 

[niky]

Who uses the handbrake for a hill start after about the first 5 times you do it? Once you figure out the technique, there's no need to ever use the e-brake again.

I've driven cars with foot-operated e-brakes, both manual and automatic, for years, and never had an issue with it. I guess I don't do enough J-turns.

You've never driven a car slow enough on a slope steep enough to need it. If you've got a seven-seat MPV with a wonderful 50-60 hp of slow under the hood, sometimes, you need all the help you can get. For most 4-cylinder sedans of 1.5 liters or greater, and vans with at least 2.5 liters of displacement, it's not an issue, but I've had some censored-in-your-pants moments in the mountains with some awfully asthmatic vehicles in the mountains, here, and having a handbrake to lean on while you get the engine up into its sweet spot is often a life-saver.

Not to mention a clutch saver... yes, it can be done without the handbrake, but why shorten the life of your clutch so needlessly? (my weekly commute to the in-laws includes a stoplight at the top of a moderate incline. A very slow, congested stoplight.)

 

[Famine]

Holding the brakes is "lazy"? The hell are you on about? Using the parking brake at every red light is what's lazy, because you can't be bothered to hold your foot down for a little while.

And keep your hot pads (they have, after all, just slowed you down to that stop) in contact with the same spot of brake disc for all that time...

Sitting at a red light is not a time to lounge back, and using the parking brake for anything except parking is dangerous. Good luck letting down that e-brake, putting the car in gear, and gassing it in a split second when you see that car behind you isn't going to stop in time.

Lol wut? I've been driving almost 15 years and that has never. Happened. Then again, I've never set off from traffic lights until the car ahead of me has actually moved away - and I guess the same applies to the guys who've been behind me.

And there's plenty of uses I can think of for the handbrake that don't involve parking (although most of them you wouldn't really want to do on the public road unless you were a mental).

I agree with Duke. I've never used the hand brake to start my car on a hill. It's called "learning to drive a stick". It's rare I roll backwards more than 6 inches, even on steep hills.

I also don't use the handbrake for hillstarts - and don't ever roll back any distance at all. But then I've driven almost the exact car homeforsummer drives and can say that, genuinely, it is sometimes necessary. 60hp and the City of Sheffield are not good bedfellows.

A foot-operated parking brake is just a fine idea. It allows for a wide bench seat to fit lots of people, like in a truck or van, and nothing on the floor to get in the way of the middle passenger. It's been done that way since the beginning of time over here in the states. You European people just have weird, impractical car designs. It's like you've never seen a work truck with three guys sitting up front before.

I've driven 4 or 5 vans. Each had three seats up front and... a handbrake.

 

[homeforsummer]

I can understand if you're stuck in traffic and haven't moved in a few minutes, but if you're at a light for a whole 30 seconds, come on. And you can't argue that is isn't safer to hold your brakes, because even if people should be paying attention, sometimes they aren't and those "dazzling' lights just might notify them a little sooner that you're not moving.

Good luck letting down that e-brake, putting the car in gear, and gassing it in a split second when you see that car behind you isn't going to stop in time. I've had to do that before, and since my car was already in gear I handily avoided that rear-ender.

As with Famine, the situation described has never happened, and I've never even been in a situation where it's likely to have happened. Admittedly I've been driving fewer than half the years Famine has, but even so that's still a long time for an apparently common driving situation not to have happened. The only way I can think something like that would be the case is if you've got a stop light or stop sign in the middle of nowhere or at the end of a freeway and the car behind is driven by Stevie Wonder who hasn't realised everything in front has come to a halt.

Generally, we don't have that situation in the UK. Anywhere where you're required to come to a complete halt is generally in town, and being ready to sprint off because the car behind isn't slowing is going to get you exactly as far as the rear bumper of the car in front.

And for those who didn't bother to read this...

When I'm sitting at lights on a main road I hold the footbrake until the car behind me has come to a halt - always safe to make sure they know you aren't rolling anywhere - but I'm considerate enough not to keep my lights dazzling them whilst we sit there going nowhere anyway.

...you'll see I minimise the risk of people not seeing me in the first place. After they've seen me and after they've stopped I then take my foot off the brake. If I'm only going to be waiting at the lights a very short time, I don't bother putting it in neutral. And I guarantee you that if I'm in gear with the handbrake on I can drop the lever and have the biting point equally as fast as you can skip across the pedals, and probably much smoother for my passengers too. The difference is that on a hill I won't roll backwards a single inch (let alone "no more than six").

It's like you've never seen a work truck with three guys sitting up front before.

Refer to Famine's comment. My best mate has driven a Ford Transit for the past four years (he's now moved onto articulated wagons) and that had three seats. And a handbrake. And a manual transmission mounted on the floor, in the older version he used. Virtually all Transit-sized vans have three seats across the front and virtually all have normal handbrakes.

 

[Thatman]

My '89 Park Avenue came with no upholders and 2 information centers ....

 

[homeforsummer]

My '89 Park Avenue came with no upholders and 2 information centers ....

What did the two different information centers do? And were they informative enough to forgive the lack of cupholders?

 

[Famine]

One of them was the cupholder status information centre...