We've dropped from 100 tracks to 50!!!

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Yep GT3 indeed lacked the feel of speed a lot.. Hope they fix it indeed, if one is to believe the people who played GT4:P it is so fingers crossed and we'll have to wait till november to see the end result!
 
Originally posted by j8mie
I can't put my finger on it. There's something just not right about GT3 (I can't comment on the others as I have never played them). A lack of a sense of speed when driving, braking seemed to arcady for my liking, and I never felt like the car was ever on the limit when going round a corner flat out. I never felt like the car was going to spin away from me and into the barrier.

I'm hoping that GT4 will be better and look forward to it's release. In all honstly I don't think anything will be as good as real driving. Just because a driver gets massive amount of feedback through the steering wheel and pedals.

But the closest I've come across was Grand Prix legends. But that had flaws in it, like all games. The NFS series is just a arcade racer, as was Ridge Racer.

Cheers

Jamie
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I think you need to play with ACM and TCS turned off.
 
j8mie you need to think about what your saying, GT is the most realistic racing game on any console, whats realistic about mirrored tracks, it's bloody impossible in real life, they might as well add some themed fantasy tracks while they're at it for some variety, you know race your GT-One round an onld war ship or race your M3 GTR in some track up in the clouds.
 
Mirrored tracks annoy me, I don't know if I can quite explain why, it's just the concept of suddenly having all your lines inverted that seems unnatural to me. There's nothing technically WRONG with it, I just don't like it. It's weird.

j8mie obviously enjoys playing with fire.

A configurable championship, much like that Wipeout Fusion boasted, albeit with the option to configure cars, would actually make a good reward for completing a certain amount of the game or certain sections.
 
Mirrored tracks, to me, are unrealistic. Surely, I've done it in "Rush 2" for the Nintendo 64. This second installment of RUSH had you racing in Las Vegas, New York, Los Angeles, Honolulu, Seattle, and the Rock (Alcatraz). So imagine racing on the streets of New York, while instead of turning left, you turn right. Arcade racing definitely means that mirrored modes are probably in the game. A bit of a sim I played on the computer that had mirrored tracks was "Moto Racer 2" I have. The coolest thing about this game was being able to race against up to 24 different racers. But of course, these are motorcycles, so that's no problem.
 
Originally posted by Taowulf
I think you need to play with ACM and TCS turned off.
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I have tried the game with both of these off, and it does change things, but still not enough IMO.

Originally posted by live4speed
j8mie you need to think about what your saying, GT is the most realistic racing game on any console...
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Trust me, I do think about what I say. It seems that no one is aloud a different opinon on this forum. Which is a shame, because in the real World, everyone is different as are their opinions. Yes it is the best driving sim on any console, but it still has a long way to go before it can really call itself a "driving sim". You have to bear in mind that they will never be able to make a life like sim, so long as most people are playing on joypads, it wouldn't surprise me if PD find themselves limited as to what they can do, just because most of their customers with play using a game pad. I've never tried it in a race seat and with a steering wheel and pedals, but I can't see it being much different.

Originally posted by Eagle
...j8mie obviously enjoys playing with fire...
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You bet I do, makes life more intersting :lol:

Cheers

Jamie
 
Originally posted by live4speed
j8mie you need to think about what your saying, GT is the most realistic racing game on any console.
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*cough* F355 challenge *cough* although if you use the sim tyres on some stock road cars it's simmilar, but still doesn't feel as nice. Also, i've driven GT3 with a wheel and the difference is immense.

I'm still tempted to get the DFP, but I wouldn't probably use it that much.
 
J8mie.
Suggest you try it with a wheel, as it makes a whole lot of difference to the feel over the joypad.

And with GT4 and the gt force pro with full 900 degree rotation, and the much improved physics engine, you better believe its gonna be a whole new ball game.

Ive not yet had a chance to experience the GT4p or got the new logitech wheel yet, but from videos ive seen with experienced players using the new wheel, it looks like a lot of work to keep everytrhing under control.

One would suggest if you never felt you were on the limit, then you werent trying hard enough.;)
 
Originally posted by GTXLR
J8mie.
Suggest you try it with a wheel, as it makes a whole lot of difference to the feel over the joypad.

And with GT4 and the gt force pro with full 900 degree rotation, and the much improved physics engine, you better believe its gonna be a whole new ball game.

Ive not yet had a chance to experience the GT4p or got the new logitech wheel yet, but from videos ive seen with experienced players using the new wheel, it looks like a lot of work to keep everytrhing under control.

One would suggest if you never felt you were on the limit, then you werent trying hard enough.;)
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I don't doubt that when GT4 is released, some stores will have large set ups to try the game with a seat and wheel. So i'll give it a try then. I'm just hoping GT4 improves on the "lacking" AI from GT3.

Well I must have been doing something right, if I kept winning all the time. :)

Cheers

Jamie
 
Yes the Ai did mean you didnt have to try well to win.

Im sure Ai will be improved, but by how much? and of course they have to make a learning curve so only the late races will be hard.

Im hoping they kinda create a family of AIs with competitor names, and specific driving styles, and levels of agression, then when you enter a race youll see a list of names in which cars, when you get to know them, youll no what sort of tactics/style to expect.

Did u try OLR comps to see how bad you really are, You will really have to push there.

Hoping if the online side of things is done well, The Ai side will become irrelivant, even competing against downloadable ghosts will give you something to strive against, and so up the challenge of GT.
 
F355 was a one car wonder. if GT had focused on just the one car it would be FAR better. but the more cars you put in a game the more diluted (cant spell) it becomes... i think weve been spoiled by GT over the years and yeah for all its faults. its still amazing (any of them when they were released)
 
There are for's and against's to the inclusion of a large range of cars.

If you attempt to accurately model the handling and physics of only a few cars, you can work your engine around only those cars, and thus get quite a good feel. However if you try to expand beyond that you may find yourself limited in handling characteristics if corners were cut so as only to suit the cars you were including.

If however you include a large range of cars like in GT games, then the variety will highlight any such shortcomings in the game engine because certain cars will simply not feel right or be as realistic as desired.

So as you can see we're still well on topic about dropping from 100 tracks to 50 o_O
 
(before my frekaing computer crashed when trying to type something up) The only experience I've had with the F355 game is playing it in the arcade. And I'll tell you one thing. I may have taken some driving lessons from my brother a year or two ago, but playing this game, I thought racing with the paddle shifters was going to be a piece of cake. They weren't. The arcade version of F355 had you brake early, shift at the right time, and it seemed pretty hard. I'm not really a fan of the F355 (I thought if the game was about the 360 Modena Challenge Car, it would be king in my view), but it is a simulation for sure. It is not like Daytona USA, or my all-time favorite arcade racer, Super GT. Both games are as arcade as anything, but F355 is a pure sim. Should race an automatic next time, and use some ear plugs. That F355 game was LOUD! Trust your boy, John.
 
Originally posted by GTXLR
...Did u try OLR comps to see how bad you really are, You will really have to push there...
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I can't be bothered with that. It's all well and good people posting times up on the forum, but there's nothing like really racing against each other. I'll wait until GT4 comes out before I start racing others online.

I can't have been that bad, as I'm only lacking 5 golds through the whole game, which I only just after Christmas. I did struggle with some of the endurance races, just because I keep loosing consentration all the time, because it got a bit to boring for my liking.

Cheers

Jamie
 
GT series has nothing to do with playing the game in single player.

Single player is just a polygon for learning. To learn hoe to drive good, fair and flawles. And how to win when you put yourself against the human competitor.

The whole game idea is in multiplayer. When you come up to somebody who knows the game, then you see the real purpose of the game, and the time spent with game.

Predicted online multiplayer of GT4 - which is no longer a hoax and every day I keep hearnig less and less about it, but I still won't prejudice anything - would be a first big step towards the multiplayer in 8 years of the GT series.

And believe me Jamie, you don't have an idea how GT can be driven by a human. And I'm not talking about the people who are trying to put down some stupid-fast time posted by some other stupid-fast person. I'm talking about driving dozens of consecutive laps with tyre wear on, TCM and ASC off in battle for the first place trough masterwork of driving perfection. Knowledge is the key.

And always nice to see the mentioning of Holy F355 Challenge, be prasied forever Master Yu Suzuki, forever and ever.
 
Uh...

The first statement, that GT isn't about the single player experience just sorta confused the hell out of me, then I got a quirky analogy about SP being a polygon for learning... That doesn't make sense.

I think GT is very much about the single player experience, otherwise they wouldn't have put so much time and effort into making SP enjoyable and long lasting, and instead given us Tribes with cars.
 
Its had to be a game based around the single player experience, as the unavailabilty online, and lack of opportunities to connect machines for most people has lead it this way.
However The AI versus single player game has to be limited in its challenge, to appeal to the broad market.
For true racing fans, it is not about getting 100%, its about being the best you can against other likeminded players, which again for the majority of us unil now has existed in offline OLR only, Off course there is split screen, and even the occasional drag your ps2 and tv to a GT party and while this provided great racing action(mostly) it was a very rare occurance that only a few have had the opportunity to experience Amar212.

The Physics Engine, the cars and the multitude of tuning & setup options, crys out for much more than just whooping the general AI, it is perfect for a world of multiplayer racing.
A world far more satisfactory in competing in than with any AI based 1 player racing sim.
In previuos GTs we had to make up our own rules to get the best out of a easy to beat game, but Gt4 is set to change all that when it finally makes online racing available to the masses.

One thing is bothering me at the moment tho...Although SCE, divisions world wide say it will be Six player online, in the press releases, im a little concerned that PD and KY have blankly refused to make comment about this.
So far the only talk directly out of PD, over the last year or so has been about online communities for talk, trading cars, viewing replays and photos, Ive not seen or heard anything From PD about the Actuall Online 6 player mode, and often when questioned about it in interviews, diversion comments or flat refusal (often suggesting miss translation, then comments on the online features talked of above) to answer is all thats been heard.

So are they still struggling to get Online racing to a satisfactory stage? I belive they are.
Theve been proud to talk about all other aspects of the game, even other aspects of the online arena, but way to quiet on the most anticipated element of the online world, and its hardly an element to keep secret, its just multiplayer online racing others have done it before.
 
I think they should bring back all the "Stage Route's" in GT4, with updated graphics, those have a night racing feel to them, I wonder why, maybe because they take place in the night?:p
I also dont understand why they took out Red Rock Valley for GT3, it's one of the best tracks I've ever raced on in a videogame.
The number of tracks for me isn't all that important though, around 50 is pretty good, I like it if you have to master each track, than having a new track for almost each event. The number of events for me is more important than number of tracks, there's gotta be at least 300 events, some as small as 3 races, but there need to be some with up to 20 races, so it's like entering a league, not some over the weekend tournament, I also think each manufacturer should have at least three different events you can join, with the race being randomely picked (like GT2)
The ulitmate thing I think would be is if you could create your own events.
 
Red rock and Grindelwald were both great tracks left out of GT3.
 
GTXLR, you're prettty close to mine oppinon.

Right now, I'm not sure that we'll get online multiplayer in GT4 due to many reasons, no matter of big hoax and promises we were getting in last year or so.

I think that online aspect of GT4 will concentrate around online community via forums and www.granturismoworld.com page (which, I hope, will not take all of people from this place), toghether with nice Photo Mode which - it looks like it for me - has been created like the one truly unique online option of GT4.

One thing I know for 100%. My coleague, who was at E3 last week, has been to an press conference with Kaz and he asked him few questions about the online racing and those problems (you know which problems). I specificly asked my coleague to talk with Kaz about the problems they've been facing with in August of 2003, when I had an inteview with Kaz at PSXE in London. When asked about solving all those problems, Kaz just said that they didn't solve them yet. And he didn't spoke a single word about it until the very end of E3 event. As my coleague told me, A SINGLE WORD about the online racing wasn't mentioned at this years E3.

For online racing - as it look to me now - we'll have to wait next gen PS.

Hope I'm wrong, but somehow I think I'm not.
 
Amar this to is also my fears.
Since your report from last year i have been tracking comments out of PD themselves and as mentioned not a single word has been uttered about online racing.
Question, did they even have a link set up at E3 this year, if so was it a server link.

As i said press releases say yes, and increase the hype, but PD say nothing and avoid the answer.
And i fear this does not inspire confidence.
 
Sony won't let them not include an online mode, there will be online for GT4, how good and how extensive it is, is another matter.
 
There will be online mode, but will it feature OLR?

kaz has always emphasised more on the community side when ever he talks about it as he has always contested that the actuall racing side is a very difficult challenge for his team and plays down the idea when sopken about it (although he never actually denies it, because he would love to have it in), even in the past has acknowledged the Limits of technology he has to work with I.E The internet/PS2.
His original vision at GT4 announcement was to have a place where people can talk cars, trade cars, and discuss the game much like these forums.
The new photo mode is a big part of that online vision with his idea of people swapping there photo work online.

There was talk at E3 by Sony of trading cars amongst ourselves, but no real mention of any actuall racing.

The network Mode demo that was shown last year was very, how shall i put it, Inconsistant and many who tried it complained greatly about it.
If Amars contact is correct and PD have yet to solve this problem, this is very bad news indeed, and the fact that they are not trumpeting online racing and showing or talking about it leaves me to believe that he is, it also explains the very long delay till november (the delay could be that they need to enhance other feature of the online mode to make up for the potential lack of OLR while they also try to find a soloution) But if it isnt found and perfected by then, I cant help but feel that Online racing will not appear as GT4 in my opinion will definatly not be delayed beyond Xmas.
I can see that we could possibly end up with the online elements combined with the HDD being the big emphasis for GT4 Online, with the possible downloading of new cars/tracks and the posting of replays/ ghosts to download, maybe even competitions where you race on own then upload to Sony servers.

This would be a devastting blow to all of us who have been waiting for GT4 to challenge like minded racers online, and take the game beyond ths Single player, with so many cars/ tracks and tuning/ setups the potential is huge..But cant help feeling its gonna pass us by.....Again!

I hope I am wrong about all this, but everything is strangley quiet.

Does Anyone no Anything of the network mode at this years E3.
Did anyone experience it, if so how was it.
 
Kaz is a perfectionist, if the OLR side isn't as good as the single player in terms of quality, he won't be happy. But Sony won't allow GT4 not offer an online gaming experience, PS2 online is selling veeeeeeery slooooooowly and GT4 isa killer title and adding OLR is a must from Sony's point of view. IMO the reason KY isn't saying much about OLR is either it's not very good at the moment and he doesn't want to show off an under par feature, or 2 he is waiting for the right time to show it off or release details of it. KY is very good at wating for the right time.
 
Originally posted by live4speed
Kaz is a perfectionist, if the OLR side isn't as good as the single player in terms of quality, he won't be happy. But Sony won't allow GT4 not offer an online gaming experience, PS2 online is selling veeeeeeery slooooooowly and GT4 isa killer title and adding OLR is a must from Sony's point of view. IMO the reason KY isn't saying much about OLR is either it's not very good at the moment and he doesn't want to show off an under par feature, or 2 he is waiting for the right time to show it off or release details of it. KY is very good at wating for the right time.
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Sony is known for coming out of the blue. I remember it was 1999 and there where many rumours that sony had no plans for a follow up. So in the mean time they would launch a beefed up PlayStation One. The rumours where there and in a sudden Sony struck the gaming community with the PS2. Sony is very good in doing a "rope a dope" You let people believe what you want them to believe in meantime you are preparing for the opposite.

I guess Kaz and Sony have something up there sleeves and why should you reveal it. It is already the most anticipated race game in the world. So as live4speed mentioned, when Kaz thinks it is the right time to reveal he will reveal.

What you often see is, how longer people have to wait they start doubting. You can better use your energy in faith instead of doubting...although it is up to you what direction you choose!
 
Perhaps fortunately, both camps make good points.

I can't see people going out of their way to buy a hard drive to swap cars. Yes, a lot of us will do it but we're the more hardcore of the GT playing field. The rest will go "The hell with that" and buy another game that actually lets them race instead of spending money on an HDD.

We have to keep in mind that we've had a lot of impressive surprises lately. Photo Mode looks cool, the Nurburgring had us all drooling and searching for fresh underwear. I think live4speed said he expects Le Mans to be revealed at the race itself in a few week's time. How many more secrets are Sony and PD sitting on? We've speculated on almost anything you can logically think of on these forums and still new things emerge.

To be perfectly honest I don't see what limitations could be faced in terms of OLR. Each player's car would be loaded locally into memory, just as the other 5 cars are in normal racing, along with all their relevant information. How big is a race replay file for say, a lap? A few KB, a few hundred at most? Then you can send it over broadband during the course of a race with little trouble.
 

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