What about a VIN for every car?

[sam_i_am]

This is quite a tricky problem to solve without storing information on a central server. MMO's like WOW have solved this by requiring that the game save is stored on their servers rather than on user's machine. Until GT moves to such a solution, I don't see how it can be done.

The problem is that GT needs to provide offline capability. If they start requiring an internet connection, they will lose a significant portion of their market. I don't think Sony will go that route. (my educated guess)

 

[khj94704]

I thought about this one myself also but I wouldn't know whether or not it could be implemented.

If it was it should go like this.
If a duplicate of the car is detected it is reported stolen and the original one disappears form your garage.

Kaz said he wanted players to experience as many aspects of car ownership as possible, so having your car stolen will take it one step closer to being an accurate simulation:tup:

Give me a break. Is GT6 going to require some proof of my real life finances to see which cars I can "afford"? Because if I drive a boring midsized car in real life, what would better reflect the reality of my car ownership experience than forcing me to drive the same boring midsized car in the game? Are we going to have Work-Spec to build up credits for gas/insurance/car loan payments? I certainly won't be winning any races in my midsized sedan, so A-Spec is a non-starter. Why not throw in Car_Thief-Spec so that I can be the one stealing other peoples' desirable cars... possible litigation from Rockstar? I love it when conversations on message boards take this direction.

 

[II-zOoLoGy-II]

Cool idea, but not really. I still don't see why you people complain about people duplicating cars when it does not affect your gameplay in anyway whatsoever.

Are you just complaining to complain? Misplaced anger - by the fact you're forced to grind to level up and purchase expensive vehicles?

 

[Ghost Rydor]

I still don't see how people claim ignorance on this issue. It is obviously effecting the games playability or PD would not be wasting time and money removing the feature, fact.

Someone who can make 20 of his favourite cars just appear can then have specialist tunes where the honest player is still doing the hard yards and has fewer cars requiring general tunings. Then you put the two together in a online match. Still fair? All the cheaters instantly have garages legitimate players may take years to match.

That is just one example.

 

[khj94704]

I still don't see how people claim ignorance on this issue. It is obviously effecting the games playability or PD would not be wasting time and money removing the feature, fact.

Someone who can make 20 of his favourite cars just appear can then have specialist tunes where the honest player is still doing the hard yards and has fewer cars requiring general tunings. Then you put the two together in a online match. Still fair? All the cheaters instantly have garages legitimate players may take years to match.

That is just one example.

The problem in your scenario isn't people duping cars, it's PD's decision to take away the ability to save more than one tuning setting per car.

 

[II-zOoLoGy-II]

I still don't see how people claim ignorance on this issue. It is obviously effecting the games playability or PD would not be wasting time and money removing the feature, fact.

Someone who can make 20 of his favourite cars just appear can then have specialist tunes where the honest player is still doing the hard yards and has fewer cars requiring general tunings. Then you put the two together in a online match. Still fair? All the cheaters instantly have garages legitimate players may take years to match.

That is just one example.

Last time I checked once you tune your car, its not permanent. You can access the online lobby settings/tune menu and quickly change your tune for a specific race. If you don't have a way of saving your tunes somewhere, such as simply writing them down, that's your fault. So, your argument is void.

And no one makes you join a race you don't have a car capable of winning. So saying it's unfair for online play is ridiculous to begin with.

Also, your little "fact" you through in there, is opinion not "fact." And no feature has been removed; "gifting" has only been restricted. I'm guessing the only reason you included one example is because you couldn't think of anymore. Since the one that you could think of is crap, well that shows how solid your argument is to begin with.

 

[glw]

You need to read about UUID/GUIDs.

And the proposed scheme won't prevent duping between accounts, but it could prevent people from having more than 1 item of any kind on each account.

To prevent duping you'd need to maintain all user inventories online and implement transaction security on those. This could be done, but requiring internet connections could be a hassle for many users.

exactly, UUID/GUID along with MAC address (or something else) would be great! that way you know on which machine the car was originally won/purchased.

i was thinking that an online escrow type system/app could be used to handle the trade... so that when the incoming gift car(s) arrive the outgoing car(s) are removed in the same transaction (a true trade instead of exchanging gifts). that way game saves can't be used to dupe... right?

note: i'm not necessarily against duping. it's just a mental exercise in problem solving for me.

 

[spikeyhairdude]

This is a excellent idea. Also why not have a log to show othere people how many other owners the car has had before with how many miles they have done.

 

[glw]

exactly, UUID/GUID along with MAC address (or something else) would be great! that way you know on which machine the car was originally won/purchased.

i was thinking that an online escrow type system/app could be used to handle the trade... so that when the incoming gift car(s) arrive the outgoing car(s) are removed in the same transaction (a true trade instead of exchanging gifts). that way game saves can't be used to dupe... right?

note: i'm not necessarily against duping. it's just a mental exercise in problem solving for me.

hmm.. i was wrong... duping could happen if two transactions were used...
example:

before transactions
partyA saves game

transactionA
partyA (valuable) for partyB (junk)

between transactions
partyA restores game save
partyB saves game

transactionB
partyA (junk) for partyB (valuable)

after transactions
partyB restores game save

result
both parties have both valuable items

NOTE: i guess you have to think like a duper...

 

[Welsh-Fury]

Old post of mine that covers the same idea.

Speaking of duplicated cars...

This brings me back to Pokemon, and I'll tell you why. In Pokemon, when you captured a Pokemon, it is OT/*Your Name* (Original Trainer/*Your Name*) and given a 12 digit ID (6 visible, 6 hidden). That way, two players under the same name can't share Pokemon that they can call their own without people knowing it's been traded.

NOW, back to why Pokemon is so important. I think every car earned, by ticket or purchased, should have their name inscribed as the first original owner of the car, along with a, say, 12 digit hidden ID to the car. With that, you have a completely unique car.

Now how will this solve duping? Easy. Once it is detected that two cars of the same registered name and ID are present, that car is locked/removed. Same can go for Paint Chips/Horns/Car Parts.

Why have the hidden ID if all PSN names are unique themselves? Well, if you bought two Ferrari Enzo's, they both could have two different ID's without both being locked/removed, because (Guess What?) you earned them without duplicating.


Easy when someone who can think things through reveals himself.

 

[dixonbaps]

I still don't see how people claim ignorance on this issue. It is obviously effecting the games playability or PD would not be wasting time and money removing the feature, fact.

Not fact. PD didn't start removing the feature just because people are duping. PD have done what is necessary to stop people selling "In Game" expensive cars on E-Bay and the like for real money. Thats why PD are doing what they are. They are not bothered about in game duping, makes no difference to them or anyone else who dupes whatever. I have said it before and I'll say it again. PD have allowed duping from the day they unlocked the game save because the minute you copy your game save to a memory stick or whatever you use then you are duping your who garage, and if/when it's ever restored then your whole garage & everything in it becomes a copy "DUPE" that's been restored from a "DUPED"/"COPIED" game save file.

I have duped before and probably dupe again but that will make no difference to anyone else's game play whatsoever. Why it's such an issue to some people to "BREAK THE SACRED LAW" and dupe is beyond me.

BTW in my own opinion the best way to stop the car copying is to implement the same or simular thing that they had in GT4 and make everything tradable instead of gifting.

What PD are doing right now is trying to stop people selling virtual cars on sale/auction websites for real money, not stop duping. If it was to stop duping then it's too little too late.

 

[glw]

Old post of mine that covers the same idea.

what about offline play without access to this new registry?

with your concept, unless going online once locks the item for good, it looks like you can give away everything you have once and still keep it to play offline. right?

 

[dixonbaps]

a VIN for every car would not work.👎

Let's say you have enough credits for a 10,000,000 car. Then all you need to do is copy your game save to a memory stick. Boot up GT5 and buy the car. It gets it's own unique VIN. Send the car to a second/friends account. Turn off GT5 and restore game save from memory stick. Get the car sent back from wherever and boot up GT5 again. You now have the 10,000,000 car (with it's unique VIN) and you still got your 10,000,000 credits. Repeat for any car you need. This way you get all the cars you need (With unique VIN) and it doesn't cost you a penny. So this is why a VIN wouldn't work. All that would do is stop you having two of the same car (with same VIN) and the way round it is just purchase the same car over and over (as above) so you ain't got a car with the same VIN.

 

[Ghost Rydor]

Not fact. PD didn't start removing the feature just because people are duping. PD have done what is necessary to stop people selling "In Game" expensive cars on E-Bay and the like for real money. Thats why PD are doing what they are. They are not bothered about in game duping, makes no difference to them or anyone else who dupes.


What PD are doing right now is trying to stop people selling virtual cars on sale/auction websites for real money, not stop duping. If it was to stop duping then it's too little too late.

Hows that any different? Their not worried about in game duping but they are worried about people selling hordes of duped cars? Sounds like six of one and half a dozen of the other.

Where are the details suggesting it is a measure implemented purely because of Ebay sales? Sounds like another duper wriggling uncomfortably as he tries to justify his actions. If they wanted to stop online sales they would leave it as is so everyone could just have what they want without having to earn it or pay someone else for or it.

Yeah to stop duping it is a little late but late is better then never.

Remember that the reason the feature is being restricted is because players abused the purpose of it. The purpose was to give you the option to be a good guy and maybe gift a close friend a car if he really needs it, or to try it out. Not as a means of flooding the whole game with every car for everyone two days after release thus negating the need to play the game. Its the equivalent of an invincibility code on a a FPS, it renders the whole game a farce and waste of time. Not one challenge is worth completing if you can just have the local car thief provide you with every car in the game no effort required.

 

[dixonbaps]

Hows that any different? Their not worried about in game duping but they are worried about people selling hordes of duped cars? Sounds like six of one and half a dozen of the other.

Where are the details suggesting it is a measure implemented purely because of Ebay sales? Sounds like another duper wriggling uncomfortably as he tries to justify his actions. If they wanted to stop online sales they would leave it as is so everyone could just have what they want without having to earn it or pay someone else for or it.

Yeah to stop duping it is a little late but late is better then never.

Remember that the reason the feature is being restricted is because players abused the purpose of it. The purpose was to give you the option to be a good guy and maybe gift a close friend a car if he really needs it, or to try it out. Not as a means of flooding the whole game with every car for everyone two days after release thus negating the need to play the game. Its the equivalent of an invincibility code on a a FPS, it renders the whole game a farce and waste of time. Not one challenge is worth completing if you can just have the local car thief provide you with every car in the game no effort required.

Where are the details suggesting it is a measure implemented purely because of DUPING?

As far as I know, No detail's of why it was implemented have ever been released by PD.

And yes I AM A DUPER, but there is nothing to wriggle uncomfortably about. My actions have affected no one and no dupers actions have affected me !!

I agree on most parts though. But it's common sense that they are more interested in stopping people making real money off their game than stopping people duping. And yes, the gift feature is and always will be abused but PD opened that up the minute they unlocked the game save. I know things are a little late for stopping this and they are trying to stop duping as well as other stuff like "COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT" due to people making money off the duped cars on E-Bay. They are the only people in my opinion (the EBAY sellers) that are at the top of PD's priority list with in game dupers round about 10th down the line. (just my guess). As for in game duping, Each to their own I say. If someone wants to spend £40 on a game and it be over in 5 minutes with no long term challenge then that's up to them to waste £40. People play how they want to play. They payed for that right when they purchased the game and if duping only stops their long term challenge then so be it. It doesn't stop other people's and doesn't really affect anyone else.

We could argue forever and a day about the pro's & con's of duping but it would really get us nowhere. I duped to save credit's and it's affected noone accept me. I don't play online so I don't use duped cars online.

IMO The monetary system is all f#@#ed up in GT5. Like you can't sell a car that cost over 1,000,000 credit's, race's don't pay enough and the prize system in all but a sham. The in game mechanics need a major overhaul for it to be a long term challenge for me. I can only do the same races over and over again for short term because it gets too tedious too soon. If they implemented something like the monetary system from GT4 as well as the trading system from GT4 as well then I think that would work in almost everyone's favor and stop the duping in it's track's but then people would moan again that they have to grind for their credit's.

As I said before, I dupe but if they stop that then I wouldn't mind because I know it was not intended for the game in the first place and yes I know I'm only cheating myself, but that's for me to decide not anyone else...

 

[Welsh-Fury]

what about offline play without access to this new registry?

with your concept, unless going online once locks the item for good, it looks like you can give away everything you have once and still keep it to play offline. right?

Like Pokemon, it doesn't need to be online to have a uneaque ID.

 

[glw]

Like Pokemon, it doesn't need to be online to have a uneaque ID.

i understand... but what happens with your example using the following steps; game save before the trade, trade the uniquely id'ed vehicle, exit the game, restore saved game that has the vehicle that is no longer unique, turn off your network connection, load the game, play the game (a-spec/bspec) with the non-unique id'ed car.

it's not so easy...

 

[strngz0731]

Not a great idea in practice, but it's at least the foundation for something...

My idea, in a similar context, would be to create some sort of "virtual bill of sale" linked to the initial creation of the car, generated using the PSN of the original owner and the date/time the car was create (or gift ticket was obtained). At least this way, the game can attach data to every car it's already creating, versus creating brand new information.

Unfortunately, no solution to duplicating cars, regardless of failsafes that are built in, addresses the root cause for duplicating cars, which is the incentive to do such as a means - and but one of many existing means - to bypass the (long, tedious, boring) standard process of obtaining cars.

PD really needs to consider making adjustments to the game, and find a way to balance the level of immersion and diversity provided from the necessary long-term play investment for the die-hard GT5 player with something that also provides similar and/or comparable immersion and diversity with less of a long-term play investment for the more casual GT5 player. (If I had ideas, I'd suggest them, but I don't, so I can't...)

Me, I have no interest in trying to bypass the standard process - even with it being as long, tedious, and boring as it is, and I can't say I condone such activity, but I do understand (although disagree with) the reasoning behind that choice and respect the right to make such a choice. I personally would choose moving on from GT5 before I'd bypass the standard process. That's not a "right" choice, just "my" choice, and the "fairest" choice as I see it.

Peace...

 

[pixel_geist]

not VIN's. too hard for PD to pull off.

(considering they can only do 10 rims and 3 spoilers.)


how about License plates??? a custom generated number for each ride???

make the counrty match the car.
(US tags for US cars, EU tags for the euro cars, Japanese chinese or for the sushi-boxes, etc.)

makes more sense, and thats how they keep tabs on you IRL,


LOL.

 

[Welsh-Fury]

i understand... but what happens with your example using the following steps; game save before the trade, trade the uniquely id'ed vehicle, exit the game, restore saved game that has the vehicle that is no longer unique, turn off your network connection, load the game, play the game (a-spec/bspec) with the non-unique id'ed car.

it's not so easy...

Well, the next time you connect to the internet, the car is unuseable/gone from your car list. It means you can't take advantage of any duplicated car "Online".

 

[glw]

Well, the next time you connect to the internet, the car is unuseable/gone from your car list. It means you can't take advantage of any duplicated car "Online".

just do a gamesave every time before you go online and restore after and it's all back again.

and imagine if they got something wrong and PD deleted a valid car you worked hard grinding to earn... you think people are screaming now... that would be fury!

 

[II-zOoLoGy-II]

not VIN's. too hard for PD to pull off.

(considering they can only do 10 rims and 3 spoilers.)

how about License plates??? a custom generated number for each ride???

make the counrty match the car.
(US tags for US cars, EU tags for the euro cars, Japanese chinese or for the sushi-boxes, etc.)

makes more sense, and thats how they keep tabs on you IRL,

LOL.

Why do I need a license plate on a track car?

Unrelated to your post but... Can we stop with the stupid ideas to thwart duplicating.

 

[steamboat2302]

I like the idea of a vin number for each car regardless of its function it adds to the mystique and immersion of the game.

 

[glw]

... Can we stop with the stupid ideas to thwart duplicating.

umm... Isn't that the point of this thread?

 

[Laughlyn]

since teh game constantly checks online every time u go from one main screen to teh next (reason we have long waits between screens) they should have the save be sync'd online so that if u send a car then load a previous save up, when teh game connects online it cross checks the server side save against the save loaded, detects that the car has been sent and removes it.
Each object HAS to have sum ID number to distinguish each car u buy, so if u go buy 4 zonda r's from dealership each one will have a diff piece of code, the way PD went about restricting the cars u can gift was simply a quick and lazy way of dealing with an issue and it has put me off them a little bit more (firstly was that the game was and still is very poor for a game so long in development)
I understand that they anted to cut down on peopel repeatedly selling 20mill cars on ebay by duplicating them but at least with teh 1 car per ps3 rule and server side save checks they could heavily restrict the peopel exploiting teh system for their own gains, but still allowing those of us who want to send gifts to friends, can do,.