What car does the world need? Let's hear your suggestions

[homeforsummer]

What car does the world need?​

If you could invent a completely new class of car, what would it be?

I quite often think "I wish such and such a manufacturer would produce a car with this body type, this engine, at this price" and so on, ad nauseum. When I do so, it's usually from looking at a classic car and wondering why there's no modern version of it, or looking at a car from one marque and wishing that a competitor made something, well, to compete.

With the varied user base this forum enjoys, it's a great resource of ideas that the motor industry would do well to consider. Below is a list of the most in-depth ideas so far, linking straight to that user's post.

homeforsummer's "economy coupes" - you're reading it!
Jim's "modern Nova"
YSSMAN's "small crossover"
Leonidae's "modular vehicle" idea
Joey's "cheap, fun sedan"
Pupik's "various ideas"
neanderthal's "light hybrid" idea
niky's "programmable electronics"
EA11R's "small all-rounder"​

***

The "economy coupe"

The type of class that keeps popping up again and again in my thoughts though is that of the cheap, small coupe. Now you might think, I wouldn't strictly be inventing that. We've had them for years.

Well, you'd be right and wrong. My latest thinking on the subject was inspired by this video on youtube, which is a Motor Week comparison from 1992 of five "economy coupes". Cars with particularly humble platforms but a dash more style and fun, available at very low prices thanks to economies of scale of the humble models they're based on. In the video, you'll see the Toyota Paseo, Hyundai Scoupe, Geo Storm, Saturn SC2 and Nissan NX1600. In the UK we briefly got the Paseo and the NX, and also cars like the Ford Puma (based on the Fiesta), the Renault Megane Coupe based on the normal hatchback Megane, and then of course the Mazda MX-3 which was available in the USA too. All were available with fairly small, economical engines, and at fairly reasonable prices. So again, you may think there's nothing new in all that.

Left to right, top to bottom: Geo Storm, MX-3, Megane Coupe, Ford Puma, Toyota Paseo, Nissan NX1600 - all extinct​

Well, I have two problems. Firstly, where are all the "economy coupes" today? I can't think of a single one along the lines of the cars above that's been released all year. For a good few years, in fact. Even when they were around, cars like the basic 1.4 Puma and 1.4 Megane Coupe were approaching £15k in the UK - when the most basic cars retail for £6k, that's a big jump before you can own something with a bit of style, a car to be proud of.

The class of car I'd invent then, would be an "economy coupe" based on the bottom rung of the ladder - the city car class. These are cars that, in the UK, are available for much less than £10k. In an ideal world then, manufacturers would make small coupes on the platforms of these cars - the smallest of the small, cars like the current Fiat Panda/500, Toyota Aygo and it's French cousins, the Kia Picanto, Volkswagen Fox, and others.

Fiat in particular used to be no stranger to the concept of tiny, economical yet fun coupes. Not only did Carlo Abarth have a field day popping tiny Fiat engines into gorgeous small coupe bodies, but Fiat themselves had cars like the pretty 850 Sport Coupe based on the rather ungainly standard 850. This is exactly the sort of car I'd like to see a return to, in this age of expensive petrol, downsizing and hybrids and city cars becoming a hot topic.

Left: Regular Fiat 850. Right: 850 Sport Coupe​

Allow me to give an example of my vision - and let's take the Aygo. Now obviously, practicality will suffer. A Paseo is less practical than the Tercel on which it was based. With the Aygo, sticking to Toyotas, the rear seats (we'd still want to keep them) would need to lose a bit of leg room, and become more "occasional". We'd also lose some headroom as the roof would slope down. Ideally, though it would be called a coupe, we'd have a hatchback to retain important practicality and a modicum of boot space. Up front, the car would be little different from a normal Aygo, which includes keeping the same engines, even a diesel, as this is the 21st century and people like diesels that can do 70mpg. And why not? If diesel is good enough for an Audi TT then it's good enough for a humble Aygo coupe.

Toyota Aygo - the perfect small coupe platform?​

The car would be light, fairly cheap to build still, cheap to run and insure, as it would keep the small engines of the hatchback. So it'd be good for young drivers, for whom it'd be so much cooler than a bargain-basement supermini. Girls would like it, because it'd be cute. Guys would like it, because girls would like it. Tuning companies would like it, because they could have pint-sized cars that look great with a few well-chosen modifications. Anyone with an environmental conscience would like it, because they could have fun in a car without feeling guilty about driving a gas-guzzling sports car.

Imagine how much cooler that Aygo would be. Now, imagine competitors from Fiat, who'd fit theirs with a revvy little 1.2 that sounded like a small Italian coupe should yet does 50mpg. Imagine it from Peugeot, who'd make a stripped-out Rallye version, in white, with white steel wheels and a bright red carpet inside. Imagine it based on a VW Fox, which would be high quality, and be a small coupe that feels like it would take huge distances in it's stride, and would look fabulous with some BBS alloys, and (whisper it quietly) stretched tyres and slammed suspension, for all the Euro buffs.

Left to right: Panda coupe? 107 coupe? Fox coupe?​

And most of all, they'd all be great, cheap fun. Which I really, really want from a car. And I suspect I'm not the only one.

Anyway, I've rambled on long enough.

What kind of car do you think the world needs? What car would bring us out of this spiral of car companies quitting projects, laying off workers, and borrowing huge amounts of money off the government? Feel free to add your thoughts on my idea too!

 

[buickgnx88]

Well, you'd be right and wrong. My latest thinking on the subject was inspired by this video on youtube, which is a Motor Week comparison from 1992 of five "economy coupes". Cars with particularly humble platforms but a dash more style and fun, available at very low prices thanks to economies of scale of the humble models they're based on. In the video, you'll see the Toyota Paseo, Hyundai Scoupe, Geo Storm, Saturn SC2 and Nissan NX1600.

A) Oddly enough I Believe Car and Driver also had a comparison comparison of those five cars in the April 1991 issue (I have the issue at home)

B) What does that picture have to do with anything?

 

[homeforsummer]

B) What does that picture have to do with anything?

Which picture?

 

[ls2_297]

The world needs a Hydrogen powered performance car. Ie.a hydrogen 'vette, that the working man can afford, that goes lilke the clappers and doesnt cost $100,000+

 

[DaddyVDUB]

As much as I enjoy the modern car with all the creature comforts. You know for a daily driver, meaning to work/school all one really needs is the bacics you know mayby its time for another beetle type of car. No not the "new" beetle the old one,just affordable transportation that is easy to afford,reliable,& effiecient.

 

[buickgnx88]

Which picture?

This one: http://www.igniq.com/images/gta_san_andreas_pc_070605.jpg

From here:

Well, you'd be right and wrong. My latest thinking on the subject was inspired by this video on youtube, which is a Motor Week comparison

 

[homeforsummer]

As much as I enjoy the modern car with all the creature comforts. You know for a daily driver, meaning to work/school all one really needs is the bacics you know mayby its time for another beetle type of car. No not the "new" beetle the old one,just affordable transportation that is easy to afford,reliable,& effiecient.

That's an interesting idea, are you proposing a car with basic, necessary creature comforts but lack of anything strictly unnecessary, like fancy seats, fancy stereo systems, electric everything, loads of performance, flashy styling etc?

I like it. The closest modern car I can think that adheres to that concept is the Volkswagen Gol, available in South America. It seems to be pretty down-to-earth and basic, but rugged, reliable and cheap. Interesting how it's a VW, giving buyers exactly what the Beetle gave buyers all those years ago.

 

[homeforsummer]

This one: http://www.igniq.com/images/gta_san_andreas_pc_070605.jpg

Edited, thanks for pointing it out 👍 The vid is now linked as it should be.

(Apologies for double post)

 

[DaddyVDUB]

Only wish they could be as cheap. I remember my sister bought a new super beetle/it had stripes LOL back in 75 I think believe it was about 1500 bucks. thats the kinda cheap we need. I would be happy with a very inexpensive car that would run. If only one existed.

Im prob wronge on the price, but it was'nt much more than that.

 

[Jim Prower]

You know what? I think you've got some great ideas, there.

My Ideal Perfect Car? I think It's already happened: the E8x Corolla. Actually, Corollas.

I mean, you got everything from 80HP Sedans to manic Rear-drive Coupes and front-drive hot hatches. I think I'll call my theoretical Modern version the Nova, drawing from my own car for inspiration. The requirements?

Light: Gotta be light. Being light, you can have a small engine and not worry too much.
Sporting intentions from the start: If you design a car from the start with the idea that there will be a sporting model, you get a car that's good, even in standard form
Drivetrain Flexibility: Okay, this may mean actually having two different platforms (E82/E86) that share common components, such as doors, forward bodywork, etc. I dont' know how Toyota pulled it off in the '80s, though. Furthermore, that also means designing with a Hybrid drivetrain in mind, too, on the Front-drive platform. It could mean using the batteries as a load-bearing member, then replacing them with bracing when they dissappear.
Variations: Sedan, 5-door hatch "Aerobody" (Think Prius), 3-door hatch, 2-door Coupe.
Engines: Okay, Here I will make a concession to modern day. A 1.3 Turbocharged four as the base motor, a larger 1.6T for the everyday model, a 1.3 Hybrid drivetrain, and a "Mad" 2.0L Normal Aspirated motor for the sporting versions. Something with 20 valves and direct injection. Okay, maybe 16 valves...
Lineup:
4-door Sedan: Base, everyday "LS", Luxury "LX", rare Performance "SS"
5-door "Aerobody": Luxury "LX", Hybrid, ultra-rare Performance "Super Aero"
3-door FWD Hatch: Base, Everyday "GX", Performance "FX"
2-door RWD Coupe: Performance "Z86"

Okay, I'm done playing around. I do think, though, that a flexible platform is a good thing, and it's a shame that there's only two Corolla models currently being offered in the US: three if you count the Pontiac (bad) Vibe.

 

[Philly]

Going way up to the first post, those do exist, sort of. At least here. A lot of the smallest cars you can buy here nowadays are offered as coupes. You have the Civic and the Cobalt just to rattle the first two to come to mind off. And a coupe based off the Aygo? Don't get too hopeful. We're talking about Toyota here. And it seems that they're afraid of people enjoying driving and going fast.

I think the world needs good, honest supercars back. Things like the Diablo and Countach and F40. Most of the supercar companies now are building cars that have lots of computers and seem to be built with the road in mind. Where are the cars that were built just to go fast with no consideration of day to day use? I know companies like Pagani are building these, but it would be nice to see something of the like from Ferrari, Lamborghini and probably a German company or two. The 1990s were good times for the very best cars.

 

[YSSMAN]

What a lovely idea for a thread! Major kudos to you!

This is something that I think about on occasion, and what frustrates me more than anything is that the regional setup of some companies allows for the cars that I'd want in places were I don't live. Because I live in Michigan, there would be three major pieces of awesome I'd like to see in some kind of new car:

- Relative small-size
- Diesel or small gas/turbo I4
- Part-Time AWD
- Hatch or lift-back

The problem is, the Europeans already make what I want:

...But I need it just a shade bigger. The CR-V and RAV4 are great, don't get me wrong, but they're too truck-ish these days to do the car thing right anymore. Saturn VUE? Forghetaboudit. VW Tiguan? Close, but still to truck-like.

See, in the United States, if you want a small AWD car, you've got two options: The Subaru Impreza (ewww) or the Suzuki SX4 (better with FWD). Not a single company produces an off-road "car" that can deal with snow easily while still being "civilized" in and around town. I'm amazed by the market share that they're missing out on, particularly in the northern half of the country that receives snow for 35% of the year.

Make it a diesel, with a stick, and I'll buy one. Hell, get creative like Nissan and make the rear axle powered by an electric motor if they do a hybrid version.

 

[Leonidae]

I was thinking more like some kind of modular chassis, that could be easily altered for different purposes. Let's take Mini for example.

1.) it needs a basic shape, such as mini one for example.

2.) instead of having solid roof structure, it would have bit similar arrangement as Citroen C3 Pluriel, whoch would allow you to make it convertible or small pick-up.

3.) since it's already a small car for what it is, it's a 4-seater, but works better as 2-seater hatch. Now, here comes the catch. If you're young man or woman, a bachelor or young couple, you don't necessarily need a spacious car right away. the modular roof structure would allow you to change the rear roof arrangement from this..

to this.

Of course there's more to it than just roof arrangement, but you got the general idea. BMW and Peugeot could also do closer cooperation. Peugeot would deliver the small engines and diesels, BMW would take care the sporty engines. And since the car would be 4 seater to start with, there's no need for flat rear floor, thus, the performance models could be RWD, and that's BMW's territory. Peugeot would make the economical and practical versions drivetrains.

 

[kingcars]

I do agree that they really need to get back to TRUE economy cars. Even Civics are getting fat. I know it won't happen, but I'd love for the computer control crap to start dying off. What happened to WRENCHING on a car? Now it's just car wiring. Engine bays should look more like this:

 

[Leonidae]

Wrenching the cars, as you said, died off because nowadays engine bay is full of expensive electronic systems, solenoids, relays and computer units. in addition, everything is packaged tightly in plastic to avoid dirt and moisture, and to avoid the use of extra sheetmetal, whic has lead to the sad fact that in order to change the light bulbs you occasionally have to pull off the freaking front bumper in order to do it.

 

[homeforsummer]

Wow, this is exactly the sort of stuff I wanted from this thread, some great ideas coming up 👍 Keep it up guys! Leo, I definitely like your modular idea.

Going way up to the first post, those do exist, sort of. At least here. A lot of the smallest cars you can buy here nowadays are offered as coupes. You have the Civic and the Cobalt just to rattle the first two to come to mind off. And a coupe based off the Aygo? Don't get too hopeful. We're talking about Toyota here. And it seems that they're afraid of people enjoying driving and going fast.

I considered the Cobalt and Civic coupe but realistically they're far too big compared to what I have in mind. I mean, the Civic coupe looks about the size of a BMW 3-series coupe, and comes with a 2.0 litre engine. Not what I'd call an "economy coupe". They don't sell the Civic coupe in the UK either, but you can guarantee if they did it would be around £20k, which is around twice the price of the cars I have in mind.

The sort of cars I mentioned at first, like the Geo Storm et al, are getting there, they all had roughly 1.5/1.6 engines, and good economy (around 40mpg in US gallons) but in the modern world we'd ideally be reducing the engine size even further and going up another 10mpg at least, which is why my suggestion focuses on city cars. Cars like the Aygo/107/C1 weigh in the 800kg bracket which is a perfect starting weight.

- Relative small-size
- Diesel or small gas/turbo I4
- Part-Time AWD
- Hatch or lift-back

My first thought when you mentioned all that was the Suzuki SX4/Fiat Sedici. I see you mentioned the SX4, but do you guys get the hatch like we do? I know you get a sedan version. Both are available with a manual transmission over here, and you can also get diesel versions (though I'm not sure you can get diesel with the AWD option in both - I think only Fiat offers that). It's a car I quite like. They look pretty good, they're economical, have the security of four wheel drive, they're practical because they're hatchbacks, and they're relatively cheap.

I've looked through those sorts of cars in the UK though and the Sedici and SX4 really are the only types of cars like that. You can go bigger and get the CR-V, RAV4, Freelander etc, or you can go smaller and get the boxy Suzuki Jimny or Daihatsu Terios (which are more off-roaders than proper cars) but I think until MINI releases their crossover, those are the closest you'll get to the car you're describing.

But it's an interesting concept, I wouldn't mind seeing more cars like that 👍

 

[Sniffs]

leonidae said everything I believe and would have stated. they're too tech for old wrenchers.

throw in the fact that older americans are the only ones that go for the repairs nowadays, and can't figure out why they can't get metric nuts off with an SAE tool set...

America's safety requirements also make things more complicated. throw in America's "once a POS always a POS" attitude and it's pure aggravation.

 

[Joey D]

Right now in order to pull the automotive companies out of it's slump they need to develop fun to drive sedans that can seat five, get good fuel economy (30+ mpg in the city) and look good while doing it. The best effort I've seen so far is the new Ford Fusion, which is now being rumours to have a 2.0T Ecoboost in it. I would seriously considering buying a new Fusion based on what I've seen thus far, it looks great, it sound like it's going to be nice to drive, and it appears to seat 5 decently well.

I don't know what the price of the Fusion is going to be but if it starts around $17,000 then it's a great entry level car for those looking for solid family transport.

Down the road in the not to distant future we need to concentrate on making cars like the Honda FCX (recently features on Top Gear). However before we do that we need to build up the hydrogen fuel infrastructure but I really think that's the way we need to be headed shortly.

 

[Tornado]

My first thought when you mentioned all that was the Suzuki SX4/Fiat Sedici. I see you mentioned the SX4, but do you guys get the hatch like we do? I know you get a sedan version. Both are available with a manual transmission over here, and you can also get diesel versions (though I'm not sure you can get diesel with the AWD option in both - I think only Fiat offers that).

We get the hatch, but we don't get the diesel.

 

[YSSMAN]

I don't know what the price of the Fusion is going to be but if it starts around $17,000 then it's a great entry level car for those looking for solid family transport.

With the 2.5L and the stick, you're looking at just over $19K, which I still think is a steal. A mid-range SE, what I'd probably go for, goes for about $20.5K with the stick.

Either way, I'm completely agreed. It shall be an amazing car.

RE: SX4

We've got the hatch and the saloon, but the cars have only been given mixed to positive reviews. The saloon seems to be pretty well-accepted, the hatch (with AWD) not so much. I really like the car, but when you're only option is that or an Impreza for the segment, I'd like to have better options.

 

[homeforsummer]

Right now in order to pull the automotive companies out of it's slump they need to develop fun to drive sedans that can seat five, get good fuel economy (30+ mpg in the city) and look good while doing it. The best effort I've seen so far is the new Ford Fusion, which is now being rumours to have a 2.0T Ecoboost in it. I would seriously considering buying a new Fusion based on what I've seen thus far, it looks great, it sound like it's going to be nice to drive, and it appears to seat 5 decently well.

The humble sedan is definitely a type of car that needs a good kick up the backside. I've always been more of a sedan person than I have a hatch person, and I deplore the lack of good, cheap sports sedans in the UK. When you go up a class into the 3-series range there are some great cars but below that there really isn't a lot. The best I can think of in recent times is the VW Bora, a car I really like, and much prefer to the Golf. The last time I can think that we had some good, small, inexpensive fun sedans was the late 80s/early 90s, with cars like the Ford Orion Ghia Injection, the Renault 19 16v, Peugeot 405 Mi16 and of course the E30 3-series.

Now, the hatchbacks have taken over for that class of car because they're so much more practical.

RE: SX4

We've got the hatch and the saloon, but the cars have only been given mixed to positive reviews. The saloon seems to be pretty well-accepted, the hatch (with AWD) not so much. I really like the car, but when you're only option is that or an Impreza for the segment, I'd like to have better options.

I agree. As I mentioned, it'd be nice to see some competition in that sector. I think we will, in the near future, as people really start to downsize their cars. People will still want rugged off-road styling so 4x4s will still sell, but people will also want them to be inexpensive to run. Which is mutually exclusive with massive cars and massive engines.

 

[Sniffs]

home: again, for the US it has to do with the reputation of the humble sedan. the sedan is on the bleeplist like hatches, european non luxury, estates, and now all SUV's

the american taste has an "Unpleasable fanbase" when it comes to cars. it may be a lost cause.

 

[homeforsummer]

I depends how good the car actually is. If the thing can be economical enough, and offer good enough performance at the same time, and look good... then I see no reason why it wouldn't sell. People are looking for cheaper and more economical options right now and if it's practical enough for the average family whilst offering all the above then whoever builds it should be onto a winner.

 

[Pupik]

Smaller rear-wheel drive sedans and coupes under $25,000. Base models do not have to have lots of power, as long as you can get a stick; make a more powerful model (and of course, make it available with a manual transmission). The basic "cars" are in place, but the drive axle and incorrect transmission part numbers are used. Give the enthusiast a car they can live with for all occasions. With that said, the handling of front-wheel drive cars are improving year after year, so this is becoming a moot point.

Smaller mid-engine two-door cars under $30,000. Same requests as above.

Sedans with real wagon backs (not necessarily hatches) instead of SUVs. Volvo does it, BMW and Audi do it...why not an American or Japanese manufacturer? Market it as being more fuel efficient and a smarter all-round purchase than an "old" SUV or "cross-over".

Having driven a Nissan Versa hatch for nearly two days recently, I can say the kind-of-fun, small-car issue has been rectified. I've also driven a Honda Fit when at Honda, and those two cars are actually cars I wouldn't mind owning; despite the frugality of fuel and "lack of power", they scoot almost as quick as my old Lexus (which needed a master cylinder), and handle quite sharply.

Otherwise, the US market has everything else it needs.

the american taste has an "Unpleasable fanbase" when it comes to cars. it may be a lost cause.

We are a difficult bunch to please, although SUVs definitely are apparently enough for 40-50% of the driving population.

 

[I-ROC]

Do you know what? We don't need SUVs. Why doesn't make a small 3 row economy car with 3 folding seats? Half these people look at SUVs thinking, "Thats just what i need!" But no, they don't. SUVs are very likely to roll over, they chug up gas, break down, and are just a mix of a station wagon and a pickup. Will the automakets please stop making those dang SUVs? I really like what Honda is doing with the Insight. Eco-Friendly, yet Affordable unlike the Pruis.

 

[eiriksmil]

The car world needs smaller and lighter cars again. Mazda 2 leads the way, the other makers must follow.

 

[1X83Z]

Do you know what? We don't need SUVs. Why doesn't make a small 3 row economy car with 3 folding seats? Half these people look at SUVs thinking, "Thats just what i need!" But no, they don't. SUVs are very likely to roll over, they chug up gas, break down, and are just a mix of a station wagon and a pickup. Will the automakets please stop making those dang SUVs? I really like what Honda is doing with the Insight. Eco-Friendly, yet Affordable unlike the Pruis.

Unaffordable, unlike the Prius? Aren't Priuses like $28k?

What you want is an SUV-sized small car for under $28k. There's a reason this isn't built and it has something to do with the fact that automakers enjoy actually making a profit on their cars.

 

[YSSMAN]

Starts at $27K. The four-door is even cheaper...

 

[1X83Z]

Starts at $27K. The four-door is even cheaper...

No way in hell that's a three-row economy car. 15/22mpg w/ AWD is just as bad as the Ford Explorer V6 which according to I ROC people don't actually want even though they think they do.

 

[Sniffs]

YOUR not the one squeezing 20 out of a 4 door 4Runner, 22 out of a 4 liter Jeep Cherokee, and 17.5 out of a pickup with a hundred gallon Deisel tank permanently in the back. unlike my contemporaries, I actually FILL the tank and don't run like my hair is on fire and my butt's about to catch.

for those of you saying "no three rows", you've never had to haul people, loads of groceries, or furniture, have you? I make good money providing a service for people who aren't allowed near a motorized vehicle by their religon, or are too SCARED of the speed demon, weather, and brainles non-lookers (as well as the costs) to drive. there's still a place for people mover vehicles...as long as they're not Minivans (and my clients are about the only ones who don't protest at a minivan).

I think they need to bring prices back under the 20 G mark. when a 10 year old used vehicle with a hundred thousand plus on it, nearly worn out from teenager use, sells for 10-12 grand...without modern amenities like more than 2 airbags or non-optional ABS (or single axle ABS), stuff is getting TOO expensive.

oh, and i think the reason americans have a distaste for the small cars that europeans love...they aren't powerfull enough to get up the 2 or 3 mile long hills that prevade parts of the US (we go straight UP the hills instead of curve-switching around them).