What do you want in a live GT3 comp?

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As you may or may not know, MLG is a console-only tournament circuit that includes Gran Turismo 3 in its competitions. Unfortunately, low interest levels might cause GT3 to get cut from the games roster, which would be a sad day for all of us. The last event, held in Dallas last weekend, saw only 4 competitors show up to compete in GT3. And with $1500 in prizes being given out for it, MLG obviously won't want to continue using the game if interest doesn't pick up. It's been like this for all three events so far, although the first two had slightly higher attendance.

I have been wracking my brain for reasons why attendance is so low in comparison with Soul Caliber 2 and Halo, and for ways to spark interest. Initially, I just thought we needed more publicity, so I tried that for Dallas. I told 15 different web sites about it, but that only got 4 people to come in, so that wasn't the problem. So what is it? Why does Halo get more than 30 times as many people to show up as Gran Turismo 3? Is it because they can't play online like we can? No, they have X-box Connect that allows them to play Halo online against other highly skilled players. They have to come just as far as we do to hit up competitions, and they, like us, have a pretty good idea of how they're going to place. Yet they still come, even though they know they won't win. Why do they come for Halo while almost no one comes for GT3? Is it because of the audience demographic? Are GT3ers just too scared to lose? Is it just because of the kind of game it is? Is live racing too intense for us? Is it simply because GT3 is almost 3 years old (Halo is only 5 months younger)? I've been thinking about this for months, and I can't come up with any logical reason for the lack of interest. Everyone that goes to an event has an absolute blast. So much so that 2 of the competitors have been to all 3 events, spread out between New York City, Philadelphia, and Dallas. So why can't we get anyone to come, despite all our efforts?

I really want this to take off, and not just because I voulunteer as the official GT3 go-to guy of the organization. I like GT3 as much as anyone else here (I even have GT4 Prologue, which I said I would bring to Dallas if enough people showed up. That didn't accomplish anything), and really want to see these competitions take off so that people like us can make money doing what we love. So I'm on a crusade accross the GT world to find out why no one's coming, and what I can do to fix that. There are two things you can do to help me with this: first, give me your theories on why GT3 is so different from Halo. Second, tell me what MLG can do to make you and others come to an event. At this point, I'll take any and all suggestions and pass them along to the people in charge. If we think it'll really help the situation, we can make a lot of stuff happen. Do you want a different competition format? Rule changes? More people per race? Prizes for lower placement than 3rd? If so, what? T-shirts, hats, pins, undergarments, dinnerwares? Would you come if there were Driving Force Pro wheels on hand for use and demoing? Would you come if you could play Prologue? If there was free food? Bigger TVs? Drift competitions or exhibitions? Better chairs? Some things may be less doable than others, but you can tell me anything you think would make the competition better, and I'll do my best to get it done.
 
I would be willing to go to the one in Seattle in August, but I could never justify traveling far for an event like this.

I am not good, but I do occassionaly play well with others.
 
I think that's the biggest issue.Travel.I would go if i lived over there but i don't.It could also be that people don't have the time for it,some of us work.
But other then that,i have no clue.
 
GT3 Isn't set up well for multi player. You can only play with two pepole and the majrioty of the game is on single player. I think when GT4 comes out there will be alot more popularity. Mayve than there will be more pepole to play.
 
For me, it's a travel and time issue.

I actually would have come to dallas had I been in the position, but various reasons held me back...

However, as for why other people don't show, I don't know.

I think that the real reason for the lacking gt3 crowd is not so much that gt3 isn't popular, or that racers are less willing to travel for gt3...

I think that the first reason is difficulty... gt3 really is harder than a fighting or fps, so people are probably more inclined to take their chances with easier games than they are hard games.

Also, fps and fighters pull different crowds in general... when you play gt3 you are usually by yourself, so when you go to the comp, it's just you alone.
But with the fps and fighters, you usually play with friends, so when one person decides to take their shot at the comp, a few of their friends come along for the fun of it.

My say on how to fix this problem...
Continued advertising, patience for gt4 (which really will revitalize the gt world), and more comps in more cities. (even if the prize money is less for each of the podium runners.) (sorry max. ;) )

But yeah, continued efforts at advertising, patience for gt4 and more frequent comps/ more cities.

Good luck, I know you will not find a lack of support on the net, but in the real world... :D

I really wish you and the mlg the best, maybe one day I will get to run with you guys. (lord knows I would love a shot at max in real life. :trouble: :lol: )
 
Hi, Sven:

I am in Toronto and the nearest large US town is Buffalo. Unless I can find an M1 tank cheap or MLG decides to cross the border (at least into Niagara Falls?), I can't justify leaving home to compete.

GT3 allows up to 6 players, so if you could figure out how to reward all participants, that would help everyone feel good (but then you have only had 4 players...).

You are using a LAN, right, or do you compete in 2-Player mode? Do you have pictures?

Hope that helps somewhat,

MasterGT
 
Hang on Sven:
:D I tend to "Ramble" a bit but will try to get my thoughts down in some sort of order. I was the 4th entrant at Dallas last week so figure I'm qualified to give some suggestions "First Hand."

1st: THANKS to MLG for hosting GT3 Racers in what they knew would be a Money losing deal. They can't be expected to take in $100 & Pay Out $1500 per event much longer.

2nd: MLG needs to fix their Website!!! It doesn't function well at all & even though I had been assured that it was "Fixed" I was not able to Register on-line not once but TWICE!!! Had "Max E." not convinced me to attend the less than professional website would have kept me away. When dealing with a "PS2/X-Box/PC" clientele there's NO EXCUSE for not having a Functioning Website!:irked:

3rd: Although I realize now that I was the first ever entrant to use a wheel MLG was totally unprepared for that eventuality. Driving with a Wheel in your LAP against Drivers of this Caliber is a bit too much of a hurdle to overcome. :irked: (BTW: MANY THANX to my fellow Competitors for helping w/a "Console Shift" between EVERY Race which was easier than me moving my Wheel Setup from TV to TV.) :cheers:

4th: Now that you mention it, the chairs were "Beyond" uncomfortable! :irked: My butt & back hurt for two days after I was there.

Now for some hopefully "Constructive" input:
Some sort of "Class" Structure might help. I really only showed for the "i-Link" experience since I had never done it before, but Max E.'s reputation "Preceeds" him & only a "Select Few Drivers" Worldwide (YOU know who YOU are!) could give him a good "Run for the Money." Maybe having another division for us "LESS Than World Class" Racers would help. Having said that, I personally would do it again in a heartbeat. Running four i-Linked Mazda 787Bs around various venues during the warm-up was "Waaay Beyond Kool."
Suggestion #2: (Boy "Max E. & Hogster IR" are gonna hate me for sure after this one.) Perhaps using each "Ride" only ONCE would help. We never used a "C" Class ride & these guy's are "Awesome" in the Ruf R-GT. Also they obviously know which Rides are quickest in each Class so both use the same one. Makes it just a little "Boring" to see the two finalists go at it in Identical Cars. Maybe specifying that "Dominant" Cars like the Mazda 787B & RUF R-GT CANNOT be used would "Breathe a Little Life" into the Competition? :confused:
I'm sure I'll think of something else after I hit the "Submit Reply" button but I've rambled long enough. "Good Luck" :cheers: & Thanx for a GREAT Experience!!! 👍 ...UB57 :D
 
Personally, I feel that Halo is more of a multiplayer game. Halo suits the multiplayer scheme more, as up to four (I think?) players can play on one console at once, whereas only two can play on GT3.

Ways to rake people in.. hmm... I guess you could poke around the 'net.. See where GT3 sales were highest among cities.. and then plunk an ad in the newspaper to tell people to come? :shrug: That might be a half decent, and AFFORDABLE idea. I mean, you guys are giving out prizes up to $1500 anyway, so $40 shouldn't be a problem for putting ads in the newspaper.
 
Originally posted by halfracedrift
Personally, I feel that Halo is more of a multiplayer game. Halo suits the multiplayer scheme more, as up to four (I think?) players can play on one console at once, whereas only two can play on GT3.
Hiya halfracedrift:
:D FYI
in the i-Link mode used by MLG up to SIX Racers "Could" compete at once (although there were only Four hooked together in Dallas) & more importantly each Racer has his own Monitor! 👍 IMO: "Splitscreen" like the Halo players were using w/three guys sitting shoulder to shoulder so they can each see the screen sucks! 👎 JMO...UB57 :D
 
Definately support for wheel users is a must(Edit: using just wheels would be even better), even if you have to bring your own. Which if you did have to bring your own, they should provide safe keeping for it when you aren't using it.

For me to compete I would like there to be a B-class. I am not a world class gamer, but still like competition, even if we do have to take a pay cut ;). And if they did a time trials to determine what class you were in would help too.

Other than that, I will have to think of some, but the chicago event sounds delicious.
 
Hi Sven, I'm planning on attending the Chicago event:) I hope a lot of people show up (well more than 4 would be nice).

Anyway, one suggestion I have to make the competiton more interesting would be to draw the track out of a hat and also draw the car out of a hat, then both drivers would have to use the same random cars on the same random track. This would take make the event more interesting to me and would pay dividends to the "well rounded" diver. Without random drawing of the cars, everyone is going to pick the same few cars over and over. Every driver would then have a chance of drawing a personal "Bad combo" which they may not do as well on as a slower driver who it would be a "good combo" for, if you know what I mean. Once a car has been drawn out of the hat, it would not be replaced, so a much wider variety of cars would be used throughout the tournament.

I don't know if you have done any rally in the events, but you should throw one in once in awhile too:)

However you decide to do it, it should be alot of fun and I am looking forward to attending. :D I'll get registered if you guys ever update the website:odd:
 
I already posted a reply on this at racing-line.org.

When reading the statements here and having attended about twenty iLink sessions as of now, I want to add some words here.

1st) In no way is the RUF R-GT of Arcade Mode A-Class cars superior. The TVR Speed Six is a perfect match to the disguised Porsche. You might wnat to have a look at the following two database pages of www.granturismo.de:
R-GT times
Speed Six times
These are arcade mode a-class car times. As you will notice, the R-GT is not the fastest car all the time. And in several iLink events this combination of the two starring in the same race (3 drivers R-GT, 3 drivers Speed Six) proved to be one hell of a fight. Of course you have to be able to handle both cars to make this come true.

At the recent iLinks in the Netherlands and in Germany with well over 20 participants at each of them we used the following qualifying scheme to determine who will start in which group of drivers. according to the outcome of each race group members would be dropped down to the next lower class and vice versa.

Qualifying system:
Two track/car combinations are chosen, which are not to be known by any driver until the qualification is held.
The mode will be 3 laps in free run of the arcade mode. The fastest lap will count, considering one second added to the displayed time for each incident of wall hits or off tracks (more than two wheels off the track).
We usually dealt with the check on cleanliness of the laps as to put one person behind each currently driving individual and determining "online", whether a second was to be added here and there. Of course this could be done more strictly by saving each lap or so, but this doesn't really benefits the fun part of the event.
I think the link to the point / group scheme I already gave to you. If not let me know.
 
I've noticed that the recurring theme on why people won't come is the travel consideration. So I got this idea on how to eliminate the need for travel (expenses) in events. It's just a theory/brainstorm at this point, but I wanted to bounce it off the target audience for feedback. Basically, the idea is to replace the live events with 100% verified non-live events, akin to the kind of competition held here and on other sites. Entry fee would be reduced, and time submission would require sending in a videotape of the lap/race (it may be possible to cover shipping/whatnot with the registration fee). The prize for the event would start at cash + a trip to the live final event, and hopefully go down farther than it currently does so you could come out in black easier. Also, a "prize displacement" technique would be employed to make sure a maximum number of people can win it, and a couple star racers can't hog all the prizes.

So, if that, or something like it, were implemented, do you think you and other GTers would be more likely to enter?
 
Sven,
I am Australian so there is no chance of me being there.
From what I have read above there is an entrance fee required to compete.
Sounds like the entry fee is keeping all but the best away.
 
After reading subsequent replies, I think you are getting closer to what is needed.

Some way of classifying participants is needed. Some of us will never be top points winners, some of us will. If enough people participate, then there is less chance of mismatching.

Having preliminary races to get classified sounds reasonable. How often you do them will depend upon how often you have live play-off championships. (I don't know and I didn't look...) Every quarter, semi-annual, annual - you decide.

A prize scheme that rewards most/all players would be great. Travel costs sounds great, but I don't know if your fees would cover it.

I am interested in knowing how this all works out for you, Sven.

Cheers,

MasterGT
 
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