What happened to the Japanese coupé?

[Tornado]

It will be, it's supposed to start at 27,000 or 29,000, something like that.

At that price I would have to seriously wonder why Toyota even bothered.

 

[niky]

So true. If they take a barebone, go-kart approach, it might be perfect by the time it reaches the showroom!

No... then we'll end up with the Toyota ForTwo...

 

[a6m5]

Don't say that.

At that price I would have to seriously wonder why Toyota even bothered.

Agreed, 110%.

 

[Casio]

In general terms, no. A coupe is any car with a sharply plunging rear roofline and without a B-pillar, regardless of seats. Traditional coupes also have a boot/trunk which is separate from the passenger compartment, but coupe-styled hatchbacks (where you can reach through the boot/trunk opening and smack people in the head) are also coupes if they meet the earlier definitions.



Lots of Coupes have B-Pillars?

 

[Famine]

I'm afraid not. They're called coupes - and are even designed so that that B-pillars look like non-supporting breaks from the outside - but they're two door sedans.

 

[Omnis]

So the only coupe in production is a CLK.

 

[niky]

The 370Z is a coupe. So is the RX8 (no B-pillar between front and rear doors).

Funny though... technically a coupe is defined by roof shape, which is why Mercedes has the cheek to call the CLS a coupe... but as far as I'm aware, the 3-series coupe has often been classified as a two-door sedan (which I agree to)... which has hampered its entry into some racing series or another (can't recall which).

 

[Famine]

So the only coupe in production is a CLK.

No, there's loads of them.

The B-pillar is the important distinction. If there's no structural support for the roof between the front and rear screens, it can be classed as a coupe. The "cut" ("coupe" - cut) roofline is corollary to that. People do like to draw the distinction between a separate boot and a hatchback-type, but if it doesn't have a B-pillar and the roofline is all swoopy, it's a coupe.

The BMW and Holden shown are designed so that the B-pillar looks absent - or a "non-supporting break" - from the outside, but it's present inside the car and is structural. Thus not a coupe.

 

[Sniffs]

so, people are using the 50-60's "hardtop" definition? bah, there were hardtop Sedans (Saloons) over here that had no B pillar either. I think they go by the seat count instead/in addition. I consider a coupe "2 front seats and a package shelf with seatbelts" anything less that that is a sports car

 

[Famine]

so, people are using the 50-60's "hardtop" definition? bah, there were hardtop Sedans (Saloons) over here that had no B pillar either.

There still are. Hence my saying:

They're called coupes - and are even designed so that that B-pillars look like non-supporting breaks from the outside - but they're two door sedans.

"Hardtop" is nothing to do with it - except that you can't have a coupe that doesn't have a roof (coupe-convertibles are a neat example of both - not a coupe when the roof is down, but when the roof is up they have a coupe roof and no structural B-pillar = coupe).

I think they go by the seat count instead/in addition.

They don't. They don't go by doors or trunks/boots either. They go by B-pillar and roofline which is why that BMW and the Holden are designed to look like they have no B-pillar when they actually do - they're coupes on the outside. Coupe is a body style, not a seating capacity definition.

 

[Sniffs]

There still are. Hence my saying:



"Hardtop" is nothing to do with it - except that you can't have a coupe that doesn't have a roof (coupe-convertibles are a neat example of both - not a coupe when the roof is down, but when the roof is up they have a coupe roof and no structural B-pillar = coupe).



They don't. They don't go by doors or trunks/boots either. They go by B-pillar and roofline which is why that BMW and the Holden are designed to look like they have no B-pillar when they actually do - they're coupes on the outside. Coupe is a body style, not a seating capacity definition.

that sure doesn't make sense to me, that's for sure. but you know how it is over here in the states...different set of standards and definitions . I consider a coupe something with a useless back seat where your ears and knees have an intimate relationship with each other. a Camaro or Beretta is what I think of (i've never seen a ford coupe, unless you count Model A's)

 

[Tornado]

I'm afraid not. They're called coupes - and are even designed so that that B-pillars look like non-supporting breaks from the outside - but they're two door sedans.

I'ma have to say that that definition is a bit silly, then. Is the Ferrari 599 a two door sedan?

I understand when it made sense (back when companies made sedans, tudors and coupes of everything, and to an extent they still do so today), but that was like 70 years ago. You might as well be trying to make people pay attention to the old-timey definitions of "roadster," "convertible" and "phaeton."

 

[TheCracker]

I understand when it made sense (back when companies made sedans, tudors and coupes of everything), but that was like 70 years ago.

Companies like BMW, Mercedes, Volvo, Renault and Peugeot still do.

 

[Tornado]

Companies like BMW, Mercedes, Volvo, Renault and Peugeot still do.

Mercedes is also the only one who really seems to care about the distinction between "coupe" and "tudor," and even then they only do so when it suits them.

 

[Famine]

I'ma have to say that that definition is a bit silly, then. Is the Ferrari 599 a two door sedan?

I don't know, is it? More to the point, why are you asking me as if I make the rules up?

The current Society of Automotive Engineers definition of "coupe" make the Ferrari 612 a two door sedan, so why not? I happen to think that particular rule is a bit silly, but it doesn't matter two short ones whether I like it or not.

I understand when it made sense (back when companies made sedans, tudors and coupes of everything, and to an extent they still do so today), but that was like 70 years ago. You might as well be trying to make people pay attention to the old-timey definitions of "roadster," "convertible" and "phaeton."

The "old-timey" definitions of roadster (open-topped car with no roof) and convertible (car that coverts from one body style to another by means of a retracting roof) still apply today, the same as sedan and coupe do. It's hardly my fault for telling people that's how it is - that's just how it is.

 

[Tornado]

More to the point, why are you asking me as if I make the rules up?

It's hardly my fault for telling people that's how it is - that's just how it is.

I wasn't, and I never said it was, respectively.

The current Society of Automotive Engineers definition of "coupe" make the Ferrari 612 a two door sedan, so why not? I happen to think that particular rule is a bit silly, but it doesn't matter two short ones whether I like it or not.

The "old-timey" definitions of roadster (open-topped car with no roof) and convertible (car that coverts from one body style to another by means of a retracting roof) still apply today, the same as sedan and coupe do.

My point wasn't whether or not the definitions still applied. My point was whether or not it was actually worth needling people (again, as a general criticism of the official definition. Not in terms of "Famine is a needling pedant") over something so trivial when the reason the term is incorrectly used is due to decades of intentional misuse of the words by the people who actually build the cars.

 

[Famine]

No needling occured. Blitz187 was the first to bring up the question over how one defines a coupe and thanked me for providing him with this definition. Several other examples have been subsequently brought up with regards to how they fit the definition - and quite simply if they do not, they are not coupes even if marketed as such (BMW's 3-series coupes being a great case in point). Personally I find the pillar & roof definition a far more satisfying one than the SAE "less then 33 cubic feet of rear interior space" one, since almost all car body style definitions are derived from horse-drawn carriage body style names, rather than how much cack they can hold and where, but it matters not a jot which I find more or less satisfying.

That's just how it is. Same with "roadster", or "convertible", or "phaeton" (not that anyone's made a phaeton in a few decades) or even "shooting brake".

And since the thread is about the decline of the Japanese coupe, how one ought to define a coupe is quite important to it.

 

[Kryz11]

Any info about the Subaru Cupe pricing?

 

[Tornado]

No needling occured.

I was speaking hypothetically.

Edit: Perhaps that isn't the best word to use, but I'm not sure what the better word would be.

 

[Nielsen]

Any info about the Subaru Cupe pricing?

+1

and is there any confirmation that this car will make it to the streets?

 

[eSZee]

If the toyota will then so will the subaru. It will be less than the toyota, maybe wrx money.

 

[Nielsen]

If the toyota will then so will the subaru. It will be less than the toyota, maybe wrx money.

How can it be less than the Toyota? Around here, Subaru is generally more expensive than Toyota. Primarily because of AWD and boxer engines I think. I've also heard that the Subaru coupé has more power than the Toyota version. Are you sure?

 

[Kryz11]

I know the Toyota Price was predicted to be around 20k USD, I bet that Subaru will always be about 5 grand more. Also since that test driver of Toyota died in a car crash, toyota will be releasing another smaller RWD hatch, so I think Subaru might be out before the FT 86.

And I think its confirmed that Subaru will be out, right? They are already testing it.
http://www.speedlux.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/subaru-coupe-6.jpg

 

[Nielsen]

And I think its confirmed that Subaru will be out, right? They are already testing it.
http://www.speedlux.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/subaru-coupe-6.jpg

I hope it's because of the camouflage but from the rear it looks like a WV Corrado.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SYJjE7Xrf4&feature=related

 

[eSZee]

I know the Toyota Price was predicted to be around 20k USD, I bet that Subaru will always be about 5 grand more. Also since that test driver of Toyota died in a car crash, toyota will be releasing another smaller RWD hatch, so I think Subaru might be out before the FT 86.

And I think its confirmed that Subaru will be out, right? They are already testing it.
http://www.speedlux.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/subaru-coupe-6.jpg

The ft-86 will not be 20k. It was supposed to be that when it was first announced. Then toyota got smart and realized they need to aim it at the older crowd so they're making it better equipped and costing $27k+.

How can it be less than the Toyota? Around here, Subaru is generally more expensive than Toyota. Primarily because of AWD and boxer engines I think. I've also heard that the Subaru coupé has more power than the Toyota version. Are you sure?

Yeah, I mostly hear $25k from sites saying it will use the same 2.0L boxer like the toyota and $30k for the 2.5L version.
Of course this is all based on rumors, which honestly are almost all we have on these cars.

 

[Tornado]

Then toyota got smart and realized they need to aim it at the older crowd so they're making it better equipped and costing $27k+.

I wouldn't call that smart.