What in the world just happened?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Boz Mon
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[sarcasm] I didn't know multiple companies could own the same patent.[/sarcasm] I'm also pretty darn sure you can't patent a chemical process. If it was a good process, whichever oil company owned whatever patent you're talking about would be manufacturing oil using it. There's simply way to much money to be made to ignore that.

If a pharmeceutical company can patent, for a certain amount of time, the production of a certain medicine (which I would think is just as much the result of a chemical process as this new fuel would be) I don't see why a hypothetical fuel creation process like that couldn't be patented, at least for a limited time.

That said, you're right, it probably isn't fiscally tenable to produce right now, if such a process exists, or we'd be doing it - given how expensive and tightly regulated coal mining and processing is, even compared to oil processing, that's not surprising, really.
 
If a pharmeceutical company can patent, for a certain amount of time, the production of a certain medicine (which I would think is just as much the result of a chemical process as this new fuel would be) I don't see why a hypothetical fuel creation process like that couldn't be patented, at least for a limited time.

I think the deal is (and I'll have to consult my wife on this, she's an expert), that you can patent a unique combination of chemicals, but you can't patent the use of chemicals in manufacturing. You definitely can't patent coal or oil.
 
The hybrid option keeps looking better and better. And I don't give a damn about the C02 output.

If you don't care about the C02 output a hybrid is a terrible investment, it takes forever to break even on those things. I did all the calculation on this and they can be found here:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=98007

Basically you are better off getting a Corolla over a Prius. Yes the prices on those calculations aren't exactly right but the increase isn't that great that it would skew the results all that much. I will be updating them soon though, I promise, and hybrid will still just be a bad investment.

Anyone concerned with fuel prices should look into buying a small, efficient petrol powered car. If you want something that is also affordable the Toyota Yaris is pretty much it as far are I can tell, the Fit is up there as well. Granted the Cooper is good on fuel (to some lists the highest pure petrol car) but the high cost of it makes it a lesser option.

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And as always converting European prices into dollars isn't exactly fair since the dollar is weak compared to the Pound and Euro. I know some of you don't believe me on this but everything is more expensive in Europe when converted over so it makes sense that fuel would follow the same trend since it is bought with money.
 
I think the deal is (and I'll have to consult my wife on this, she's an expert), that you can patent a unique combination of chemicals, but you can't patent the use of chemicals in manufacturing. You definitely can't patent coal or oil.

Gotcha, good to know 👍
 
[sarcasm] I didn't know multiple companies could own the same patent.[/sarcasm] I'm also pretty darn sure you can't patent a chemical process. If it was a good process, whichever oil company owned whatever patent you're talking about would be manufacturing oil using it. There's simply way to much money to be made to ignore that.

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Industrial gasification is a state-of-the-art process utilizing coal, petroleum coke, and other U.S.-based raw materials, diminishing the effects on the US chemical industry from the price volatility of foreign oil and natural gas and reducing our dependence on them.
Industrial gasification is a versatile, proven, and efficient process that Eastman has profitably employed for more than two decades.
At its most basic level, industrial gasification converts coal, petroleum coke, and a wide variety of carbon-containing feedstocks into a synthesis gas or “syngas."
This syngas is a valuable and versatile raw material that can be converted into a multitude of products such as chemicals, fertilizers, transportation fuels, synthetic natural gas and hydrogen, as well as clean energy.
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isn't that because most politicians are elbow deep in oil money?

More to do with the fact that more tax = more money for expenses claims. And cars = easy target. And green = no-brainer vote-winner.
 
More to do with the fact that more tax = more money for expenses claims. And cars = easy target. And green = no-brainer vote-winner.

Ah... but the price of diesel... as a "pro-poor" commodity... the local government here is actually discussing slitting its own throat and reducing diesel tarriffs to please the public transport sector... which just crippled the Metro a few days back with pretty big strike.

And... whoops... our foreign debt goes up another few million dollars thanks to the lost revenues... :indiff:
 
Like I said, LPG ftw, it's like what...0.67 euros a litre now or something? It stinks though :dopey:
 
Ah... but the price of diesel... as a "pro-poor" commodity... the local government here is actually discussing slitting its own throat and reducing diesel tarriffs to please the public transport sector... which just crippled the Metro a few days back with pretty big strike.

And... whoops... our foreign debt goes up another few million dollars thanks to the lost revenues... :indiff:

In the UK transport uses "red" diesel, at a reduced tariff. "Red" diesel is illegal to use for the general public on public roads.

Diesel itself is 5-8p a litre more expensive than Unleaded - and about the same as Super Unleaded (97-99RON/95 Octane)
 
There's a slight flaw on that logic: electricity can be produced anywhere, water IS everywhere, but only a few countries have oil, and it can't be done artificially (that I know of).

Bio-fuels?

But then they are a green myth anyway. Only slightly less Co2 production and most of it is made from what used to be rainforest land. It's not in the least bit sustainable either so god knows why people invest in it.

Hyrdogen fuel cells are the way to go.
 
The drop in the dollar is caused by interest rates, which, as you pointed out, is caused by the housing market. The fed is trying to stem the tide of a housing crash - which may not be the right answer.
I definitely don't think it is the answer. The majority of people affected are those that shouldn't have given out loans and those that knew they shouldn't be getting a housing loan.

And while the middle class takes a big hit when it comes to selling it does become a buyers market. My wife and I are looking at buying a house in the next few years and watching prices drop, and knowing that if you offer 10% under the asking price will probably get you a deal is making this ideal for us.

As it goes though the housing market just boomed too much too fast and while people are getting hurt by the crash it is a stabilizing effect in the long run and trying to stop it and bail people out will either slow the stabilization or cause a repeat boom and crash.

The main issue with all this is that pay has not gone up to meet the suddenly increasing cost of living. If it weren't for that I wouldn't even blink at rising gas prices.



True but it can be made out of coal (even low grade coal).
But guess who owns the patent on this; yes the oil companies.
An even bigger issue here is that Congress passed a bill saying that the government cannot purchase a fuel that creates more greenhouse gas in its complete life cycle than petrol.

Because the oil to gas process and technology is relatively new the total emissions after production and use make it worse than petrol. So, even if they get this running efficiently the government is preventing themselves from using it until they make it clean. So, once again climate concerns have taken place over economic concerns.

But then they are a green myth anyway. Only slightly less Co2 production and most of it is made from what used to be rainforest land. It's not in the least bit sustainable either so god knows why people invest in it.
The only reason why most of it is made from rainforest lands is because the countries that are making efficient use of it are in tropical regions and the most efficient plants used to date, sugarcane, requires a tropical climate.

But even if we all used sugarcane based bio-fuels there isn't enough proper farmland to support it outside of the individual countries.

And in cooler temperate climates the most efficient plants that can be grown locally don't provide enough to support their own needs. That and when grain keeps going toward bio-fuels it makes all my other prices go up to.
 
Exactly. Completely unsustainable. Surely if we can work that out they can? It has no future as an alternative fuel.
 
Well you know what they say....

What goes up must come down?!?!...... right? Right? RIGHT!?

I sure as F--- hope so.


God, I hope you're right. My daily driver (88 Mustang) gets 17 mpg after getting an engine swap. That'll start burning a whole in my wallet pretty quick.

Yay for having a Toyota as a back-up car!
 
God, I hope you're right. My daily driver (88 Mustang) gets 17 mph after getting an engine swap. That'll start burning a whole in my wallet pretty quick.

Yay for having a Toyota as a back-up car!

This is the great thing about the market - people adjust, find ways to use less of an expensive resource, and move on.

And... whoops... our foreign debt goes up another few million dollars thanks to the lost revenues... :indiff:

Could always, i dunno, cut spending.

I think the deal is (and I'll have to consult my wife on this, she's an expert), that you can patent a unique combination of chemicals, but you can't patent the use of chemicals in manufacturing. You definitely can't patent coal or oil.

Ok, just checked. It's complicated. You can patent a process. Obviously you can't patent the use of a particular chemical. But uou can patent a particular unique combination of chemicals or a novel process for creating something. If the only process that enables the production of gas from coal is already patented, then people either have to buy a license or wait for the patent to run out. In the meantime, the company that patented the procedure is being rewarded for their innovation by being handed exclusive rights to that process. If I were them, I'd be cashing in on that at this very moment. And perhaps they are. If they are, they're doing their part to reduce fuel costs.
 
As funny as this is guys; G is next to H on the keyboard.
 
This is an interesting topic.

Last year some 75% of all new cars sold here up north, were diesels, because CO2 had become a major tax factor (diesels let out less CO2 than petrol cars) in new car prices. Now people are angry because all of a sudden diesel prices have shot up and are now roughly equal (and at times more expensive) compared to petrol prices. Oh my, I wonder why. [/sarcasm]
 
And here minimum wages for those who have completed their education is roughly 1100-1300€ month, and 95 octane is about 1.40€ litre and diesel is 1.20€ litre. And Shell V-Power 99+? err.. astronomical.
 
Imagine what would happen if the US gas-prices went up to the Euro level overnight. The entire nation would collaps. It would be like a combination of The Day After Tomorrow, Godzilla, Cloverfield and Dude Where's My Car?.
 
Imagine what would happen if the US gas-prices went up to the Euro level overnight. The entire nation would collaps. It would be like a combination of The Day After Tomorrow, Godzilla, Cloverfield and Dude Where's My Car?.

Our prices tend to go up as their's do so I can't see it ever happening.
 
In the UK transport uses "red" diesel, at a reduced tariff. "Red" diesel is illegal to use for the general public on public roads.

Diesel itself is 5-8p a litre more expensive than Unleaded - and about the same as Super Unleaded (97-99RON/95 Octane)

There's a public utility discount, on top of the government subsidy. Diesel is subsidized because "working class" people use diesels... sort of like the SUV gas-guzzler exemption in the US... it's a definition that doesn't make sense anymore because more rich people are buying turbodiesels ecause they're more frugal, and more poor people are buying gasoline cars (both second- and first-hand) because they're much cheaper to buy.

Could always, i dunno, cut spending.

Government? Cut spending? Heaven forfend... :lol:
 
In the UK transport uses "red" diesel, at a reduced tariff. "Red" diesel is illegal to use for the general public on public roads.

I knew someone that put it in his daily driver and he got busted for using it. Apparently they were doing random testing at the yard where he worked. No idea how much the fine was.


As for rising fuel prices, the price for methanol has doubled in the past year. Last summer it was 3.30-3.55, depending on where you got it from. Now its 6.40 a gallon. I think the main reason it went up is because methanol is the main ingredient in bio-diesel. And the car its going into gets less than 5 miles per gallon, it adds up real quick. Im highly considering making my own fuel.
 
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