What is an "organic" clutch?

[MrktMkr1986]

What is an organic clutch? What are some of the advanatages and disadvantages of having one as opposed to... whatever other kinds of clutches that are available?

 

[pimp racer]

I am not really sure but I hope this helps.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=organic+clutch&btnG=Google+Search

 

[MrktMkr1986]

I am not really sure but I hope this helps.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=organic+clutch&btnG=Google+Search

Thanks.

But that was the first thing I did. The only links that turned up were parts sellers and junk. No real explanation like what I'm looking for.

 

[toyomatt84]

Organic = Ceramic. Ceramic is another way of saying compressed clay, which therefore is organic material, not synthetic like Kevlar.

 

[MrktMkr1986]

Organic = Ceramic. Ceramic is another way of saying compressed clay, which therefore is organic material, not synthetic like Kevlar.

Thanks for that! 👍

 

[vladimir]

Ceramic is another way of saying compressed clay

and a much better way...i guess a clutch made of clay would not help to sell a car.

 

[ExigeEvan]

Ceramic brake discs are used on many supercars. But a ceramic clutch is just weird...

 

[TSi_Shiftz]

Ok first off when they say organic they mean what the clutch itself is held together with as a binding agent. The parrtices which the clutch is made of has to held together by something, which in essence can either be organic material or synthetic. There are also kevlar and other types but the most generic is organic.

-In a nutshell when they say organic they mean the binding agent holding together what the clutch is made of. 👍

-Say thanks to Sport Compact Car mag for that one.

 

[Roo]

Wow! I learned something today!

 

[CFM]

Wow! I learned something today!

From Sport Compact Car magazine, no less. Miracles never cease!

 

[MrktMkr1986]

-Say thanks to Sport Compact Car mag for that one.

You're the one that took the time to look it up! So thanks to everyone for the help.

 

[Blake]

From Sport Compact Car magazine, no less. Miracles never cease!

Where are organic clutches used? Is there any particular reason why they're better/worse?

Blake

 

[Stinky Chicken]

Ha, I was thinking, "a clutch made of clay?!" - but then then TSi_Shiftz came along and saved the day.

Interesting bit of information there. 👍

 

[Apclps]

I remember seeing a show on TV (I think it was on Discovery channel) where they talked about this. The show was about the top5 (or 10?) greatest supercars and they were driving the Porsche carrera GT.

The cerrara GT is the first car in the world to feature a ceramic clutch (just did some research LINK). They brought it up in the show because the cerrara GT was a supercar that you could drive like a supercar almost every day. The ceramic clutch is a lot more durable and you wouldn't have to worry about having to replace a very expensive clutch every time you burn some rubber.

 

[Blake]

Cool, that would be very usefull if you happened to like going fast...

Blake

 

[TSi_Shiftz]

You can use any type of clutch/pressure plate combo you'd like I would think. I know all supercars have numerous type they use for situations and cars. Also it would depend greatly on the stage (of the clutch setup) and the driver prefrence.

 

[JNasty4G63]

.....They brought it up in the show because the cerrara GT was a supercar that you could drive like a supercar almost every day. The ceramic clutch is a lot more durable and you wouldn't have to worry about having to replace a very expensive clutch every time you burn some rubber.

The problem with lightweight, twin-disc clutches like that in a street car is that they can almost get TOO light. Sure, with a race car, where your full bore the whole time, a clutch as light as possible is great. But, from just about every article I've read about the Carrera GT, the clutch in that car is either on or off. Its so small, that it grips REAL well. Meaning, trying to get moving from a stop light, or in a parking lot, or anything can be tricky. Very easy to stall. With a heavier clutch, yes its easier to burn them up, but because they slip that extra little bit, they are much easier to drive on a daily basis.

Clutches are ALWAYS a trade-off. Easier to drive in town, almost always equals less holding power. More holding power makes for reliable use on track and in cars with decent power, but crappy use on the street. My car, like many DSMs, uses the ACT 2600. For DSMs, there are 2 very popular clutch choices. Theres the ACT 2100 and the 2600. The 2100 is good for a car with decent mods thats driven on the street mostly. Holds very well, but isn't that touchy, and easy to drive. The 2600 being the one with more clamping force, is for cars with a lot of power. Again, it holds well, but can be a pain on the street. I've learned to live with it though. My car is AWD, so even when it was stock, I had to learn how to slip it a bit. Now, its the same, but with more slip. Its a pain replacing clutches, but I'd much rather change a $300 clutch, than have to rebuild a trans or transfer case. The big trade off.

Hilg

 

[PublicSecrecy]

Well we know what ceramic is....what's carbon-ceramic then? And aren't the disc's of the brakes of F1 cars made of a "carbon-ceramic composite"?? Also, I heard they use those because it dissipates heat better.

 

[MrktMkr1986]

Well we know what ceramic is....what's carbon-ceramic then? And aren't the disc's of the brakes of F1 cars made of a "carbon-ceramic composite"?? Also, I heard they use those because it dissipates heat better.

I know nothing about clutches (which is why I started this thread in the first place ), but I do know that carbon fiber is very light, and ceramic dissipates heat better than metal so I think that's why they use the combo. That's what I think it is... a mixture of carbon fiber and ceramic.

 

[JNasty4G63]

The big advantage of carbon-ceramic brakes and clutch faces are the lightweight and heat resistance. The process goes something like this.....

1. Carbon fiber is molded into shape at around 220* F
2. The piece is then mixed with silicon, and vacuum treated at around 3000* F
3. Then, after all that, the piece is basically done, just needing final assembly on either brake or clutch assembly pieces.

A straight carbon fiber piece sounds good in theory, but in use, isn't so great. They can withstand very high heat levels and are very light. But, a straight carbon fiber piece doesn't have the "bite" needed for braking or clutch holding power. Thats where the heat treating and vacuum treating with silicon comes in. The resulting ceramic piece has more "grit" and holding power, but still has the extreme light weight and heat resistance. They do still have some disadvantages. As mentioned in many articles about them, CC brakes work great when heated up. But, they don't quite grab as well and can be very noisy when driven cold. But, once heated, those problems go away. On a track car, thats fine, since you'll heat the brakes up in just a few corners. But a street car might never get them heated driving around town, so the effects might be noticed a large ammount of time. Again, the big trade-off. Hope that helps.

Hilg

 

[retsmah]

Uh, if something is organic it means at one point the material was alive. Ceramics are definitley not organic.

Organic clutches are pretty standard it seems, as are organic brake pads.

 

[JNasty4G63]

Yes, organic clutches are just your basic standard clutch with some organic friction material added to the contact area. Its when the clutch starts using carbon-ceramics, carbon-carbon, or kevlar friction areas that they get more exotic.

Hilg

 

[blargonator]

Jnasty i dont think you mentioned ceramic brake pads are also known to get so hot hey will catch the rotors on fire. looks cool....but as we know fire is usually not a good thing. even nascar uses them (personally i dont like it but in have to do homework sometime <8- P) and you will see their brakes glow. i remember reading about a great clutch material in some magazine and they said the guy had to burn up the clutch to heat it up before going to the strip.

 

[JNasty4G63]

Jnasty i dont think you mentioned ceramic brake pads are also known to get so hot hey will catch the rotors on fire. looks cool....but as we know fire is usually not a good thing. even nascar uses them (personally i dont like it but in have to do homework sometime <8- P) and you will see their brakes glow. i remember reading about a great clutch material in some magazine and they said the guy had to burn up the clutch to heat it up before going to the strip.

Oh yea, you can totally burn up your brakes, literally. A few months back, in SCC they tested their Project Evo against the Project STi. The STi burnt up its brakes because of the new pads. Not bad, just needed a little cooling. But, it can get bad. I mean, watch any big-league road-course race series and you'll see glowing rotors everytime a car comes up to a corner. Thats big time heat. With cars like that, its not a big thing because they have ventilation, pads, rotors, and fluid that can take that on a much more punishing level. But, street cars often aren't that advanced. So, new sweet pads and rotors that look aces behind your wheels, might actually melt everything the next auto-x you attend. Heat is the biggest enemy of a car, and brakes are no exception.

And yes, carbon-based clutches, along with carbon-based brake discs need some heat in them to work. Like I mentioned in my earlier post, those things are fine on a race car, because they heat up very quick. But, on a street car, it could be a pain. The Exedy Carbon-Carbon twin-disc is a popular clutch with the DSM/EVO crowd. A common way for guys to heat the clutch up at the strip is to just to a big slip launch instead of a burnout before a run. Gets some heat in the discs, then they actually grab when you go.

Like I was saying, things like this, where friction is involved, there is always a tradeoff. If you get great bite and stopping power from some new brake pads, you can bet that you'll wear out the pads and rotors faster. Or, in the situation like the SCC article, you can burn things up with the heat. Then, you have the Carbon-Ceramin, Kevlar, and things like that. Sure, they're light, and have high heat resistance, but they need some heat to work. On a street car, you might never get them up to temp, and they will almost certainly work WORSE. Its just one of those things when the biggest and baddest isn't always best for a street car. Kind of like putting huge 15" brakes on a street car. Yea, they look nice, but does it really help or work any better???

Hilg