What is clean racing?

[ConRollins]

I am an adult and I would be annoyed with you. once someone dissapears from your mirror and pulls alongside of you. Its time to take a turn two wide and drag race to the next corner, or hit each other, Your call. No one elses fault you can't keep up on what's happening on your inside.

I would agree. If he aint in front of you and he is no longer behind you, there's only one place he could be: beside you! Take the corner a little wider or gently edge over and be prepared to correct when you come together.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

You think it's funny and not possible to race clean when I think it's common courtesy and easily achievable with a little brains and a little respect, and I do it every night. No not every single lap or race of course, accidents do happen, but in rooms I run in with good, clean, respectful drivers, each of us may have once questionable incident in an evening of racing not one or multiples per race. I can live with some contact in 1 out of 50 laps of racing in an evening. I pass and repass others numerous times in a close race, but I and they choose their spots.

A guy makes a slight bobble going through the esses at Suzuka and you don't divebomb in and get your nose in front of his rear bumper, that's just ignorant. He's going to take his position on the track back and there will be an incident. If he slides out to the edge of the track that's different, lots of room by all means take his place. If you're 100 feet behind when beginning to brake for the first corner at Suzuka but you have a run because of the draft, and you decide to shoot out at the very last second from behind someone and divebomb them under braking after they've begun their turn in, that's also ignorant and likely to lead to a coming together. It's all about running a total race, picking and choosing your spot to pass and feeling good about a hard fought, cleanly run race, win or lose. My ego is not so small that I can't live with finishing second in a hard fought, no contact battle with multiple lead changes, is yours? <-Not sure why you had to put that here, it's ironic cause it makes you seem like your ego is being offended by my post all together, hmm...

As far as blocking goes, you're doing what a lot of people do and taking an extreme example and setting it up as the "norm" when it's not. I've raced a lot online and rarely ever seen anyone swerving to block outside of Nascar usually. And "blocking" is legal, if it involved one lane change. "Swerving" back and forth to block is not legal, and everyone should know the difference. In the real life competitive racing I've engaged in and in GT5, most guys at the front protect the inside line on corner entry, that's what you're supposed to do, it's legal and perfectly acceptable. No one is disputing that, but some drivers leave it open and still expect not to be exploited for it.

So if it's actually swerving and dodging you're talking about you have a legitimate point. If it's just blocking the inside line or making one lane change then you need to brush up on your racecraft.

Regardless, racing clean, multiple lead changes, bumper to bumper action is easily possible with drivers that respect each other, I do it all the time, and if you don't believe it can happen, then it never will.

Here's the problem that I see with your ideals of racing, you've taken an F1 model or thought as highlighted with the bold, and using it over a wide span of things. Also if you go into the archives of F1 fanatic website you can see all the "race incidents" from this year alone and it isn't just a few isolated, there are several. Racing is dangerous and takes a bit of daring maneuvers to win, there is no letting someone by unless your a lap car. The idea of one lane change block is F1 alone and not something you hear or see in say V8 supercars, BTCC, DTM, Nascar or ILMC/ALMS/LMS etc. Since the idea of blocking is a defending tactic it isn't illegal in those forms of auto racing and thus drivers will do what is necessary to hinder the blocking; if that means I get your rear bumper and cause you to lose aero force without wrecking you than so be it.

It is called racing F1 is an extreme in itself to even use for this discussion, only sparingly should F1 be the model for what is clean racing. Obviously you've taken offense to my viewpoint hence your mud slinging and insults. The point is a few of you on here from my perspective seem to not understand the differences between game and real life, the AI racing you do offline or the few friends you gather online is a ton different from random folks you'll racing in a race series. You seem to have it out that I don't think clean racing per say is possible at all. It is to an extent that you view it, but a slight bump here or there is going to happen and is perfectly fine. Winning is what your out there to do and if the idea of a slight bump to another driver makes you feel bad, then you shouldn't be racing. If a solid fifth makes you happy at the end of the race, that's fine but the name of the game is to win and I much rather know I tried that then sit back and avoid a slight bump.

Same goes for my opponent, I rather them slightly bump me for the win then finish second because they were too afraid or felt some sort of remorse if they did. The idea of you first sir, is a bit elitist which F1 is even if I'm a massive fan. I think I also explained my race craft quite fine, you seem to have taken a bit of my writing and blew it up with out seeing the underlying point. Nice try I suppose.

 

[iamsupernasty]

The point is a few of you on here from my perspective seem to not understand the differences between game and real life, the AI racing you do offline or the few friends you gather online is a ton different from random folks you'll racing in a race series.

I'd say this is the underlying issue.

We understand the differences between game and real life, but we choose to drive in the video game just as if it was real life. In my opinion, the game is far more enjoyable that way. I don't get the same rush as I do racing in real life, but it's close.

Bumping, grinding and nudging treats the game more like NFS or some old Arcade Game (Cruisin' USA) rather than real racing, and makes the experience less enjoyable.

Obviously you disagree, and obviously we're all allowed to play the game whichever way we see fit. I (and many others) simply prefer to race with people who don't see it the way you do.

 

[Tower Turn 13]

as long as the contact isn`t blatent ramming, it`s classed as a `racing incident`.

You mean 'avoidable contact.'

I personally only use cockpit view, so unless I can see the car coming up behind me in the mirror, I don`t know what`s around me, so, if a car is next to me on the grid & decides to stay next to me going into turn 1, I can`t see it/don`t know it`s there, so I will take the racing line & inevitably make contact with the car on my inside, unless he either backs off, or outbrakes me, which is when I can see who`s where.

your choice to use cockpit view. I get the sim aspect but it isn't an excuse. In real life you can quickly look sideways (I also use cockpit view and assigned buttons on the wheel to left/right look for quick glance going into a turn). Side-by-side going into a turn with another racer, you aren't allowed the racing line that puts you through the apex you proclaim "your racing line" just because you "can't see." That driver already HAS the inside line. You aren't privy to it.

What the kids/non drivers don`t realise, is that not everyone is like them & uses chase cam (how can it be "real racing" if you`re not actually in the car?).

again, that's fine, I'm quite into the sim aspect, but it's up to you to be good enough to stay clean despite your own self-imposed visibility issues. And actually, I've sort of turned to the bonnet cam in my ALMS racing league because I want to see prototypes coming up behind me to plan the next corner (the rearview is much bigger and more visible in this view). You're right, it isn't "real racing," it's a game. Real race car drivers have much better visibility than GT5 offers in cockpit mode; they can adjust their heads, necks and bodies and many times have video-rearview mirrors, not ones you can barely see through in your periphery.

After the coming together, I usually get asked "how did you not see me???", to which I reply "interior view", then they have a discussion with their mates about "why do people use interior view?"

Lol, Kids have no clue.

Bottom line, cockpit view online makes it harder to see in many a car, and you have to be even more aware, not less.

 

[bushmaster]

I agree 100% with LMSCorvetteGT2 the you first sir dose not exist in real life racing. In F1 and Indy car or any open wheel racing there should be no contact because it is dangerous to do so. But all other forms of racing do have contact it is a fact of life. Intentional ramming and knocking a car off the track should not happen. But rubbing fenders and a bump to get a driver loose or let him know you are there is real racing.

This attitude of having a race where we do not ever touch another car and the you first theory is a nice idea but racing incidents happen when you get a bunch of cars racing.

 

[elston87]

It's a shame that if I am about to score a legitimate win, like thirty seconds before the finish line, I get the boot from the host because I "cheated". Meanwhile, the host calls himself a "clean driver" even though he tried to PIT me a couple of times...

Organizing events on GTPlanet seems like a good idea nowadays rather than crossing your fingers for a good and quality race on the Open Lobbies...

Organizing events on GTPlanet seems like a good idea nowadays

Speaking of which, I should really start trying this out soon!

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I'd say this is the underlying issue.

We understand the differences between game and real life, but we choose to drive in the video game just as if it was real life. In my opinion, the game is far more enjoyable that way. I don't get the same rush as I do racing in real life, but it's close.

Bumping, grinding and nudging treats the game more like NFS or some old Arcade Game (Cruisin' USA) rather than real racing, and makes the experience less enjoyable.

Obviously you disagree, and obviously we're all allowed to play the game whichever way we see fit. I (and many others) simply prefer to race with people who don't see it the way you do.

I race clean and take part in series and don't have a problem, I find it weird that you get more of a rush virtually than realistically, but to each there own I suppose. Slight bumps and what not as I have said more than once aren't Cruisin' USA, that is just a horrible comparison. Also seeing as my way is quite realistic in the real racing world, it must be your model that is trying to achieve something quite unachievable, which is racing with zero incidents. I've given you examples and what not that are true, do you need more supporting evidence as to way zero incidents is unrealistic?

Slight bumping and or similar doesn't make the race bad or ruin the experience it just shows how much both drivers are trying to achieve.

 

[Tower Turn 13]

This attitude of having a race where we do not ever touch another car and the you first theory is a nice idea but racing incidents happen when you get a bunch of cars racing.

Absolutely. But try the "slight contact" people get away with in GT5 in iRacing or better yet a real car. Two cars go off the track, races ruined, not one, and the damage is often significant, lucky if no injuries occur.

And yes the little fender bumping stuff is there but even this sometimes gets black flags thrown in certain situations. Taking a line that isn't there (as the other user suggests) isn't the kind of friendly elbowing to which you refer.

But yes, generally I think you're right. Clean doesn't equal never touching, but it absolutely SHOULD equal no touching when the field thins and you're in one-on-one situations. Throw caution to the wind and people get hurt (in real life, of course, but if you're trying to sim race the concept or sportsmanship/respect for the dangers of real racing should remain firmly in place).

 

[TheRedStig]

Simple:Racing like you would if it were your car and in real life. Its pretty easy IMO.

 

[Skython]

I would agree. If he aint in front of you and he is no longer behind you, there's only one place he could be: beside you! Take the corner a little wider or gently edge over and be prepared to correct when you come together.

Or they've crashed.

 

[Vince_Fiero]

Simple:Racing like you would if it were your car and in real life. Its pretty easy IMO.

But that is not equal:

The first rule of racing is: to come in first you must come in first.
= to win you need to arrive

dangerous driving will put damage to your car that might not let you finish the race or the race series.

The F1 teams have several cars and quite some budget to repair, so they could be less careful, e.g. make one driver spin out to have the pace car come out and control the race better that way.

 

[Christhedude]

 

[berty1979]

Great examples of clean racing 👍

 

[noisiaturismo]

When you make someone lose a position with contact, then it isn't clean.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Here's the problem that I see with your ideals of racing, you've taken an F1 model or thought as highlighted with the bold, and using it over a wide span of things. Also if you go into the archives of F1 fanatic website you can see all the "race incidents" from this year alone and it isn't just a few isolated, there are several. Racing is dangerous and takes a bit of daring maneuvers to win, there is no letting someone by unless your a lap car.

How many incidents in F1 this year? 15, 20, 30? How many laps in F1 this year? 15,000? 15 incidents in 15,000 race laps is 0.1% or 1/1000 laps. Using a typical online race of 10 paricipants over 5 laps, means one incident between 2 drivers every 20 races. I'd be more than happy with that if that's what you're advocating. Even if there were 100 incidents in F1 this year that would still translate into only 1 incident between 2 guys every 3 races online and I'd be happy with that too.

GTPlanet has a full set of recommendations for racing and that's what I follow. It's all about hard, clean racing and respecting your fellow drivers. It's about understanding who has the right to what line in a corner and when and what each drivers responsibility is concerning his fellow drivers. Since it's a videogame I can't hold anyone accountable for their driving actions on the track outside of an organized series and that's why guys think it's ok to do the sort of stuff they do, like loosening up someone's back end entering a corner after they fought hard and clean with zero contact for 10 minutes to get a last lap lead. You go down that road and what you get is exactly what you have, a bunch of guys who think it's ok to wreck you or knock you offline to take a victory.

Thank you Dale Earnhardt.

Chris, those videos are fake right? You can't possibly race clean like that and actually pass each other can you?...lol. Great videos and a good example of what I'm trying to advocate.👍

 

[jtv90069]

I do understand what you are trying to say Johnnypenso, but I think taking F1 as an example is ummm a bit too far so to speak. F1 is the elite open wheel category and even minor contact will usually ruin a drivers race. Maybe a better series to think of is GT1, V8 Supercars,DTM,JGTC type classes where contact is a little bit more common.
I have watched v8 Supercars a lot more than the others and the top drivers can and do race centimeters from each other but there is still a decent amount of rubbing and mistakes the further down the field you go.
As long as all drivers attempt to keep off each other and self penalize for honest mistakes or botched attempts, a bit of inconsequential contact is passable. The more time someone spends racing with a group of drivers the cleaner and faster the racing will usually become.

P.S. Dale Earnheart?? the intimidator. I remember him running right on peoples bumper but rarely made contact. Jeff Gordon though would bump and run regularly.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

How many incidents in F1 this year? 15, 20, 30? How many laps in F1 this year? 15,000? 15 incidents in 15,000 race laps is 0.1% or 1/1000 laps. Using a typical online race of 10 paricipants over 5 laps, means one incident between 2 drivers every 20 races. I'd be more than happy with that if that's what you're advocating. Even if there were 100 incidents in F1 this year that would still translate into only 1 incident between 2 guys every 3 races online and I'd be happy with that too.

GTPlanet has a full set of recommendations for racing and that's what I follow. It's all about hard, clean racing and respecting your fellow drivers. It's about understanding who has the right to what line in a corner and when and what each drivers responsibility is concerning his fellow drivers. Since it's a videogame I can't hold anyone accountable for their driving actions on the track outside of an organized series and that's why guys think it's ok to do the sort of stuff they do, like loosening up someone's back end entering a corner after they fought hard and clean with zero contact for 10 minutes to get a last lap lead. You go down that road and what you get is exactly what you have, a bunch of guys who think it's ok to wreck you or knock you offline to take a victory.

Thank you Dale Earnhardt.

Chris, those videos are fake right? You can't possibly race clean like that and actually pass each other can you?...lol. Great videos and a good example of what I'm trying to advocate.👍

Well as other and myself have said your taking the F1 examples a bit too far seeing how elite it is, also your skewing facts. 15,000 laps doesn't happen over a entire race season in F1 and I doubt it happens even with Practice, testing and qualifying which are much different than racing. Depending on where you live you don't see all the racing action and incidents that happen on the track with say mid pack teams or back markers. Take this 2010 Kobiyashi vid for example

These moves didn't get him banned or penalized and if anything helped grow his fan base. That isn't even including 2009 and 2011 passes that were just like that. Also that isn't even all the crazy passes he made for 2010 and if you look alot of those passes contradict what you call "clean racing", yet a world class driver like him has a seat in F1 and sorry to be honest...you're at the DFGT(assumption). What rule of driving would most be willing to follow a top tier guy like him, or a unknown as yourself? It's fine if you want to preach GTP ideal or racing but it doesn't say anything about slight bumps that may occur which is what I'm talking about. You seem to think I'm talking about outright wrecking a person due to stupidity or just rage.

Yes cause Dale Earnhardt would wreck someone to win all his races , once again your getting open wheel rules mixed with closed sport car or sedans. Good job at coming up with a unrealistic one hat fits all. Also those videos show drivers bumping and rubbing several times on the first lap which is what I'm talking about. It's fine to bump people slightly, just don't wreck them outright on purpose or through stupid actions.

 

[bushmaster]

Well said

 

[iridegravity]

When you make someone lose a position with contact, then it isn't clean.

Lot of different things floating around. Ultimately I think living by the Golden rule is the way to go. Don't hit and take a position from behind. Contact might happen. But if your behind someone, its your fault you couldn't avoid them while getting around. Back off and try it again.
Seems simple enough, but no one does it hardly.
Clean is finding a way around without upsetting the person in fronts line....
The End
You take a position any other way, and your a dirty chump in my book...and I won't race ya.
Seems to be two schools of thought. I am OK with mistakes because I make lots.... and mistakes bother me because I don't make many.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Lot of different things floating around. Ultimately I think living by the Golden rule is the way to go. Don't hit and take a position from behind. Contact might happen. But if your behind someone, its your fault you couldn't avoid them while getting around. Back off and try it again.
Seems simple enough, but no one does it hardly.
Clean is finding a way around without upsetting the person in fronts line....
The End
You take a position any other way, and your a dirty chump in my book...and I won't race ya.
Seems to be two schools of thought. I am OK with mistakes because I make lots.... and mistakes bother me because I don't make many.

Sorry I'd say it's a 50/50 situation. Half of incidents that occur from one driver hitting another from behind occur due to stupid unecessary, hard bump racing almost on the level or dirty nascar rooms. I've seen these alot, especially for Nurburgring and recently Spa alot. However, the other half which you neglect to mention, is when a driver is cut off blatantly and can't react. The middle video above shows that the Denso SC430 goes off the track and then comes back on cutting off the Petronas, you see it at the last corner with the Denso going over the rubble strips while the Petronas maintains the racing line and thus is still cut off forcing back end contact. Also the GT-R had issues you see it early in the vid with the car having lack of grip, then you see the GT-R later on bounce off the wall in front of the Petronas, and thus slowing up in front and the SC430 making backend contact. Neither were the fault of the GT-R and both are racing incidents...well the first not so much if you really know clean racing. Point is the other 50% are harmless racing incidents that may or may not be the fault of the lead driver and not that of the following driver like you've made it out to be.

 

[Tower Turn 13]

Most of the time these "clean" debates center around random rooms that claim to be clean.

Funny, in GTP series me and my leaguemates rarely ever have this discussion. Why? Because we don't friggin hit each other. And if we do we man up and follow the rules (don't steal places, don't cut track, etc.). Not only that but we have LMPs passing GT cars all race long.

So someone tell me why when a few rules and a structure are imposed suddenly it's super easy to avoid contact for 30+ laps, yet in a "clean" room they're "racing incidents"?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Most of the time these "clean" debates center around random rooms that claim to be clean.

Funny, in GTP series me and my leaguemates rarely ever have this discussion. Why? Because we don't friggin hit each other. And if we do we man up and follow the rules (don't steal places, don't cut track, etc.). Not only that but we have LMPs passing GT cars all race long.

So someone tell me why when a few rules and a structure are imposed suddenly it's super easy to avoid contact for 30+ laps, yet in a "clean" room they're "racing incidents"?

Those clean rooms aren't true clean rooms as said already on both sides, also most of those hosting those clean rooms think that when they cause an incident it's the other drivers fault. Most times it's not, and I'd say that if your going to take your chance on a so called clean room, you should watch one race first before just jumping in. This way you can gauge how clean the room truely is.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Well as other and myself have said your taking the F1 examples a bit too far seeing how elite it is, also your skewing facts. 15,000 laps doesn't happen over a entire race season in F1 and I

I did some checking and you are right. It's not 15,000 it's closer to 20,000...so the .1% figure is accruate and again I say, you can show all the examples of smash ups you want the fact is in any series it's a pretty rare event when you look at the number of laps being run and the number of drivers even in the BTCC or V8 supercars or what have you

For anyone confused over my use of the F1 examples, I never mentioned F1 at all in any post until Corvette posted and was assuming it's what I was talking about without my never having said it. Since then, I've just been responding to the questions and examples posed to me about F1...lol.

You also can't really use any real life series as an example of what is ok or not ok in GT5 concerning rubbing and light contact because we aren't dealing with real life physics and generally aren't dealing with races long enough to make up for small incidents. You can bump and bang in a 1200kg race car side by side all day long and be fine, try doing it in GT5 and even light contact can often send you flying into the sand or grass. I try to deal with the issue at hand, that is the physics of GT5 online, not how cars react in a real life race series to contact.

If wanting to avoid contact and make clean passes at all times makes me an elitist then an elitist I am. As an elitist, I think we can resolve this argument quite easily by answering the following question.

How would you rather race against?

Driver 1: [Clean racing] "It's not possible"
"I'm most likely going to set them up in a way that they'll take both of us out or end up in the wall."

or

Driver 2: "You think it's funny and not possible to race clean when I think it's common courtesy and easily achievable with a little brains and a little respect, and I do it every night."

In my opinion, the Driver 1's are the problem, not the driver 2's, but then again, I'm an elitist...lol.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Well as other and myself have said your taking the F1 examples a bit too far seeing how elite it is, also your skewing facts. 15,000 laps doesn't happen over a entire race season in F1 and I

I did some checking and you are right. It's not 15,000 it's closer to 20,000...so the .1% figure is accruate and again I say, you can show all the examples of smash ups you want the fact is in any series it's a pretty rare event when you look at the number of laps being run and the number of drivers even in the BTCC or V8 supercars or what have you

For anyone confused over my use of the F1 examples, I never mentioned F1 at all in any post until Corvette posted and was assuming it's what I was talking about without my never having said it. Since then, I've just been responding to the questions and examples posed to me about F1...lol.

You also can't really use any real life series as an example of what is ok or not ok in GT5 concerning rubbing and light contact because we aren't dealing with real life physics and generally aren't dealing with races long enough to make up for small incidents. You can bump and bang in a 1200kg race car side by side all day long and be fine, try doing it in GT5 and even light contact can often send you flying into the sand or grass. I try to deal with the issue at hand, that is the physics of GT5 online, not how cars react in a real life race series to contact.

If wanting to avoid contact and make clean passes at all times makes me an elitist then an elitist I am. As an elitist, I think we can resolve this argument quite easily by answering the following question.

How would you rather race against?

Driver 1: [Clean racing] "It's not possible"
"I'm most likely going to set them up in a way that they'll take both of us out or end up in the wall."

or

Driver 2: "You think it's funny and not possible to race clean when I think it's common courtesy and easily achievable with a little brains and a little respect, and I do it every night."

In my opinion, the Driver 1's are the problem, not the driver 2's, but then again, I'm an elitist...lol.

First off, the argument wont be resolved because there are too many people that take a slight rub or bump as I have said to an extreme. Why race if you're not trying to win? I never said I'd take a driver out and or take both of ourselves out, go ask the folks that I've raced with in the organized events. They'll tell you I race clean. The point is if you race hard and side by side you may touch or rub each other and that is fine, but when driver A goes for a gap that was never there and brake slides into driver b, that is dirty racing. However when driver A is door to door with driver b and they slight touch, that is a racing incident and is still clean racing. That is the point I was trying to make. Also we're saying that F1 shouldn't be used as an example by anyone, not just you. Yet if you're going to use it as a means to explain something, then expect someone to use F1 as well to pose the opposite.

Once again that 20,000 figure is not racing laps, how hard is that to understand? Qualifying, practice and testing laps are a lot different than racing laps. Especially the practice and testing since those two are mainly for setting the car up and getting it to speed. Qualifying is close but with the cars usually being gapped out and becoming a smaller pool with each phase in the quali session, it becomes less like that of laps set in a race. Point is there were plenty of bumps in all the series I point out, and you somewhat acknowledge this by saying "GT5 and Real life racing are different" they may have a different feel but the concept is quite the same, to win, so why should I not treat it like a real race? Isn't the idea of GT5 to simulate what racing is for those who can't do it all the time in real life?

 

[Johnnypenso]

Also we're saying that F1 shouldn't be used as an example by anyone, not just you. Yet if you're going to use it as a means to explain something, then expect someone to use F1 as well to pose the opposite.

Once again that 20,000 figure is not racing laps, how hard is that to understand?

Again, I never mentioned F1 to begin with. I made a general reference to racing etiquette and practice and you assumed I was talking about F1, so please let that die. All my references to F1after that were in response to you mentioning it.

And yes, it is 20,000 laps, as your President says, "It's math" 20 races x 20 drivers x 50 laps = 20,000 racing laps give or take. It's in the ballpark anyway.

But I do agree with most of the rest of your post. I have no problem with incidental contact. A little bump or trading some paint is not the problem. When it knocks you off line into the marbles/sand/guardrail/grass then it's a problem. Guys divebombing from 75 feet back under braking and letting their car lose grip and slide out into yours knocking you onto the grass is the problem. Guys getting 1 foot of overlap going into the esses leading up to a 1000 foot long straighaway is the problem. Guys attacking every single corner when only to get repassed on the straight is the problem because eventually they make a mistake in their aggressiveness and cause incidents. Guys who have raced 1000 races online and don't remember their tires are cold entering the first corner is the problem.

Incidental contact isn't the problem, but in GT5 incidental contact is usually reserved for clean drivers. Dirty drivers don't care how hard they hit your from behind or the side, but they will still call it "part of racing". To them all contact is fine, so long as they end up on the winning side of it. I tap guys under braking all the time, but rarely enough to knock them offline. On the rare occasion I knock them off the racing line, I slow my pace and allow them to recover, whether in an open lobby or in a series.

Perhaps our positions are not so different after all...lol..💡

 

[cbrown19d]

I have been following this thread. It took some precarious turns but I thought I would just drop in to say bravo to you guys for reasoning this out and coming to a conclusion. Very mature and great for the board.

 

[GTP_FastM3]

WOAH dude!!!!

I`m sorry that my post offended you, as it wasn`t intended to, was just putting my experiences out there.

I, like you have been playing since GT1 & use cockpit mode on every racing game that has it, as I drive for a living & race on track from time to time (took my skyline round Spa earlier this year, which was an immense experience 👍 ), so it`s the only `comfortable` view for me, the only time I ever use chase cam is when I drift, which is pretty much never.

My point was, that some people seem to think that chase cam is the only view, so don`t realise that other views are available & are being used in the same race.

That probably comes across the wrong way too, but I hope you understand what I`m trying to say?


EDIT: Just seen the other posts, think I`ll leave before I get banned.

I know your dilemma. I have used cockpit view before. The only way I found it at all realistic was to zoom in fully. At that point I not only had no side view, but I also lost half or more of my rearview mirror. I mostly use bumper cam and it too has no side view.

I'm just recently doing more online racing and others have suggested to me to change the HUD map view to 2. This allows a wide angle view of the track and lets you see where other cars are in relation to yours. The downside is it then doesn't give you an idea of what's coming up on the track. Most of the time when racing online I'll know the track anyway, so this isn't usually an issue. I haven't tried this out yet, but plan to next race I'm in.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I know your dilemma. I have used cockpit view before. The only way I found it at all realistic was to zoom in fully. At that point I not only had no side view, but I also lost half or more of my rearview mirror. I mostly use bumper cam and it too has no side view.

I'm just recently doing more online racing and others have suggested to me to change the HUD map view to 2. This allows a wide angle view of the track and lets you see where other cars are in relation to yours. The downside is it then doesn't give you an idea of what's coming up on the track. Most of the time when racing online I'll know the track anyway, so this isn't usually an issue. I haven't tried this out yet, but plan to next race I'm in.

I didn't even realize anyone used chase cam anymore till I saw Adrenaline mention it one time...lol.

Map view 2 is one of the big keys to racing clean. Basically if someone is within drafting distance they are in view, so the gap from your icon to the bottom of the map in scale 2 is about 1 second on track. When someone is close to me I check it on every corner entry and exit and along the drafting straights. Saved me and others a ton of grief for sure.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Again, I never mentioned F1 to begin with. I made a general reference to racing etiquette and practice and you assumed I was talking about F1, so please let that die. All my references to F1after that were in response to you mentioning it.

And yes, it is 20,000 laps, as your President says, "It's math" 20 races x 20 drivers x 50 laps = 20,000 racing laps give or take. It's in the ballpark anyway.

But I do agree with most of the rest of your post. I have no problem with incidental contact. A little bump or trading some paint is not the problem. When it knocks you off line into the marbles/sand/guardrail/grass then it's a problem. Guys divebombing from 75 feet back under braking and letting their car lose grip and slide out into yours knocking you onto the grass is the problem. Guys getting 1 foot of overlap going into the esses leading up to a 1000 foot long straighaway is the problem. Guys attacking every single corner when only to get repassed on the straight is the problem because eventually they make a mistake in their aggressiveness and cause incidents. Guys who have raced 1000 races online and don't remember their tires are cold entering the first corner is the problem.

Incidental contact isn't the problem, but in GT5 incidental contact is usually reserved for clean drivers. Dirty drivers don't care how hard they hit your from behind or the side, but they will still call it "part of racing". To them all contact is fine, so long as they end up on the winning side of it. I tap guys under braking all the time, but rarely enough to knock them offline. On the rare occasion I knock them off the racing line, I slow my pace and allow them to recover, whether in an open lobby or in a series.

Perhaps our positions are not so different after all...lol..💡

Finally you understand where I'm coming from, that is why talking face to face about these things work best . Thanks though good talk. The only part I do disagree with you upon is the laps still. I wouldn't count each driver as individual laps, also even if you did that would still fall shy since half the field either didn't finish the race or finished 2-4 laps down from the top team. I would say that if you're going to measure laps per race you have to do so as a group and not individually, since statistics wouldn't do that to recorded miles run over the season.

 

[iridegravity]

Sorry I'd say it's a 50/50 situation. Half of incidents that occur from one driver hitting another from behind occur due to stupid unecessary, hard bump racing almost on the level or dirty nascar rooms. I've seen these alot, especially for Nurburgring and recently Spa alot. However, the other half which you neglect to mention, is when a driver is cut off blatantly and can't react. The middle video above shows that the Denso SC430 goes off the track and then comes back on cutting off the Petronas, you see it at the last corner with the Denso going over the rubble strips while the Petronas maintains the racing line and thus is still cut off forcing back end contact. Also the GT-R had issues you see it early in the vid with the car having lack of grip, then you see the GT-R later on bounce off the wall in front of the Petronas, and thus slowing up in front and the SC430 making backend contact. Neither were the fault of the GT-R and both are racing incidents...well the first not so much if you really know clean racing. Point is the other 50% are harmless racing incidents that may or may not be the fault of the lead driver and not that of the following driver like you've made it out to be.

Not sure what your talking about with this 50/50 business. I'm talking about the way I behave 100% of the time and the situations I can control. You do what you want in a crash scenario or whatever. I just know that when your trailing someone, especially if you have reeled them in, you are in control of the situation and should try to finish it clean. I am not talking about every single scenario in the game, nor do i want to. Just promoting the idea of being clean from behind as that's where most contact happens. Usually starts with someones front bumper way more than 50% of the time, regardless of scenario.