What is more difficult in online street racing: SH, or RS tires? (Read OP before voting in poll)

[Chrunch Houston]

About the poll: Please don't vote if you don't have experience racing in both types of online street car rooms.

Sports hard advocates claim that the lack of grip provided by the harder tires makes it much more difficult to race hard around the track.

Racing soft advocates believe that with more grip comes more speed, and if you pass that grip threshold your car will snap wildly out of control, making RS tires much more difficult.

Set realism aside, this is purely about the difficulty of online competition in a video game. What takes more skill and why?

 

[Sick Cylinder]

As the grip level of the tyre comes down, following the correct racing line becomes more important - this is because the amount of side slip from the car increases. This also makes it harder to overtake as any deviation from the strict racing line is likely to result in going off track.

The race soft does have some extra difficulties - the later braking point makes it difficult to judge the brake and turn in point.

 

[Malcolm Tucker]

Depends on the car tbh. If your at about 500pp on any Racing tyres then you won't get hardly any slip at all so obviously it will be easier. Sports and Comforts teach you more about driving so you could argue that the 'learning scope' off the lower grip tyres makes them harder to use; the guy who starts on Sports/Comforts then moves to Racing will find the transition 10x easier than the guy doing it the other way round. Plus I don't really co-sign the popular notion that Racing tyres snap out of control wildly, yes it's more progressive on lower grip tyres but it's also much easier to get Racing tyres pointing in the right direction again.

Must admit I've broken the thread rule; I've used RS tyres once since GT5, because I had to. And it was a race car lol

 

[332i]

Racing softs are good if you have them on a car that can be pushed hard enough to the point that you're on there threshold all the time. They work best when pushed to their limit and they won't work well if you're not. The problems where people say they become snappy is because they either lose the front or rear at a time. Not all four corners. They're not pushing the whole car. And when softs slide, they overheat in a flash, which means the other end of the car has insane traction and you're going where those tires are pointed. If you've over cooked the rear and can't react quickly enough, you're going around. That is why people feel like they lose it out of nowhere.

I simply find that you don't need to be as precise or control the throttle as much or react as fast with tires the harder they get. Racing softs are point and shoot, but you have to be accurate because the car is going where you tell it to. You can afford to make much greater mistakes on harder tires as they make it is easier to catch the car.

Racing soft and medium just don't work well on street cars. The cars feel like they bind up.

 

[LeoStrop]

The harder the compound the harder it is to drive, you have the same amount of performance from the car but less grip. It's like driving on dry roads vs wet roads, less grip = more difficulty.

But racing tires are much more exhausting to drive, since you need to have fast reactions all the time, and you are cornering in unrealistic speeds.

If the question was: "Wich one is harder to control over the limit?" I would say RS. But overall, harder compounds demands more skill, everything needs to be perfectly calculated if you wants to take 0.300s of your time.

It's simple to solve that, buy an F40, stock, drive it with RS, and then change it to Comfort Medium.

This is just my oppinion, if you like to use RS all the time and you enjoy that, go for it. I will keep using my granny tires.

 

[Johnnypenso]

RS tires do take cars to drastically unrealistic grip levels requiring faster reactions that is true. But it's also true that it's a videogame and fast reactions are what we're used to so it's just something you adapt to with a little experience. One thing to take into consideration is that throwing RS tires on lower PP cars especially with SRF on, turns what otherwise would be corners where you have to lift and have precise brake and throttle inputs on street tires, into non-corners requiring neither on the RS tires. You don't need to worry about corner exit wheelspin most of the time, you can run over curbs with abandon because of the massive grip levels and these are things you have to worry about with harder tires. The grip threshold might be a little finer on RS tires but overall it's hard to deny that driving cars at the limit on Comfort and Sports tires, especially the higher powered cars, is much, much more difficult.

 

[Harsk100]

SH tires are more difficult than RS tires.

 

[332i]

The harder the compound the harder it is to drive, you have the same amount of performance from the car but less grip. It's like driving on dry roads vs wet roads, less grip = more difficulty.

But racing tires are much more exhausting to drive, since you need to have fast reactions all the time, and you are cornering in unrealistic speeds.

If the question was: "Wich one is harder to control over the limit?" I would say RS. But overall, harder compounds demands more skill, everything needs to be perfectly calculated if you wants to take 0.300s of your time.

It's simple to solve that, buy an F40, stock, drive it with RS, and then change it to Comfort Medium.

This is just my oppinion, if you like to use RS all the time and you enjoy that, go for it. I will keep using my granny tires.

The harder the compound the harder it is to drive, you have the same amount of performance from the car but less grip. It's like driving on dry roads vs wet roads, less grip = more difficulty.

But racing tires are much more exhausting to drive, since you need to have fast reactions all the time, and you are cornering in unrealistic speeds.

If the question was: "Wich one is harder to control over the limit?" I would say RS. But overall, harder compounds demands more skill, everything needs to be perfectly calculated if you wants to take 0.300s of your time.

It's simple to solve that, buy an F40, stock, drive it with RS, and then change it to Comfort Medium.

This is just my oppinion, if you like to use RS all the time and you enjoy that, go for it. I will keep using my granny tires.

Harder compounds don't demand more skill. They take less, the cars just don't have as much traction and you drive reserved given the lower thresholds. Less grip ≠ harder to drive. It just means slow lap times. Poor throttle control is not as penalizing as you climb up the hardness grades. Racing soft does indeed provide unrealistic cornering speeds, but that is not the point of this thread. Racing hards feel like racing grip. Medium and soft feels unrealistic. Either way, harder tires do not penalize you nearly as much. The softer the compound, the quicker someone gets away from you when you make an error and they do not. It's easier to catch the front with softer compounds if you don't use ABS. It is harder to catch the rear no matter with softer compounds when they get worn or over cooked. Harder compounds also have less grip loss when you leave the racing line/groove. Racing soft and medium depend on the racing line/groove. Otherwise, you're wasting grip and wearing tires down quicker.

Idk. Harder tires are just much more forgiving and versatile across the track surface and much easier to turn consistent lap times. You need a lot of experience with a track to come within a couple tenths every lap on softer compounds. The harder the compound, the more it feels like attacking a circuit is rinse and repeat. Braking techniques are far different as well, because you turn in less aggressively with harder compounds. So, braking becomes less technical. There is just less to think about on softer compounds. I don't put unnecessary tires on cars and go from 500pp sport hard rooms to Z8 club races on sport hards with fast tire wear and extra power to full distance fgta lotus races with required compound changes. I've got over 50k miles into GT6, so I feel I've got a decent handle on things as far as tires go. I also have a lot of experience with slicks and road racing tires. The same goes for real life. Peoples' minds are blown out of the water the first time they use full-on slicks. Everything becomes much more technical and the cars become far less forgiving. One in the same. At least they got this right. The levels of grip are the primary issue. If you knocked each tire back by two levels and made racing hards to be softs instead (eliminating RS and RM), things would be quite a bit more accurate in terms of cornering speeds.

It would be nice if they offered a racing tire specifically for street cars, because we use slicks in the SCCA and BMWCCA, but RH still feels funky on road cars. It must be something between the damper modelling and tires. Maybe road cars have a totally different modelling system for dampers in comparison to road cars. You need a stiff suspension for racing tires to feel somewhat ok on road cars. Anytime I slap racing tires on a road car, the tune needs to be changed, because the car ends up understeering. So, I don't even bother with racing tires on road cars ever. There are enough people online now that there are plenty of sport tire rooms and no need for a tune change, just so I can find some racing. I'm really surprised some people find harder compounds to be harder to control/require more skill. I think that is more to do with wishful thinking to be honest.

 

[LeoStrop]

@332i

It's not wishful thinking. Less grip will always increase the difficulty in my opinion, simply because it's easier to lose the car.

But that depends of what we are talking about. I agree that RS are less forgiving when you make a mistake, but that is because racing tires in this game are not made to drive over the limit, so they punish you a lot harder when you do.

So RS are "easier" until the point where you go over the limit of grip. And in some cars, you have to try real hard to break the grip using rs.

I agree about a racing tire specifically for street cars, they do feel funky on road cars.

 

[332i]

RS aren't easier. It sounds like you haven't raced with people who put them on the limits until they need to pit. You must be a very good driver if you find them easier. It is so much easier to hit your lines perfectly with harder tires. I am talking replicating exact laps. Try something like the lotus on racing sorts with tire wear on and attempt to get within a two tenths of yourself at Silverstone for five laps or so. Then take another car that suits sport softs about equally as well as RS on the lotus. It is a joke how much easier it is to turn the same lap times. Far easier. You can afford to slip up and still meet within a half second. If you turn in wrong on RS, kiss a few tenths away. Turn in wrong on SS and you can manipulate the rear much easier than RS to counter the mistake by rotating the car with the rear.

 

[lbpomg95]

I find my 1,000BHP Lamborghini Diablo easier to drive on SH tyres than RS. As far as driving itself is concerned, SH tyres are easier for me because the loss of grip is more progressive. In terms of racing, I'd say RS tyres present more overtaking opportunities, because margin for error seems lower.

 

[Johnnypenso]

RS aren't easier. It sounds like you haven't raced with people who put them on the limits until they need to pit. You must be a very good driver if you find them easier. It is so much easier to hit your lines perfectly with harder tires. I am talking replicating exact laps. Try something like the lotus on racing sorts with tire wear on and attempt to get within a two tenths of yourself at Silverstone for five laps or so. Then take another car that suits sport softs about equally as well as RS on the lotus. It is a joke how much easier it is to turn the same lap times. Far easier. You can afford to slip up and still meet within a half second. If you turn in wrong on RS, kiss a few tenths away. Turn in wrong on SS and you can manipulate the rear much easier than RS to counter the mistake by rotating the car with the rear.

You're narrowing the discussion to "cars with appropriate tires" which isn't mentioned in the OP. The OP just says one tire vs. the other. So for example,your 425 PP car on RS vs. same car on CM's, SRF on and off. Your Lotus on SM's vs RS...etc. etc

 

[kilesa4568]

I won't vote as I've not got barely any experience with racing softs, but as someone who likes to drive on the edge of losing grip, I'd say RS are a lot harder to use at that level.

I've only ever used them in the Le Mans class cars though, where the limit is exaggerated when you reach it.

Are you talking about high powered cars or cars up to 600-650pp with racing softs on?

Edit: I've just tried a few laps of Silverstone in various cars up to 600hp with racing softs and the only way a I could lose grip was by driving like a hooligan. Very slotcaresque. The Huayra was the 1st car I tried where I had to balance the car off the grip and it was still snatchy. Getting grip back when I least expect it to and certainly where it shouldn't be gripping so soon.

They feel like they've got about 30% more grip than they've any right to have.

You know something's wrong with them when you can use racing softs in wet races and know you get more grip than with full wets.

 

[DuceTheTruth]

Harder compounds DO command more skill imo, unless you just like sliding around the whole track all 5 laps

 

[ALB123]

I know some of the well known tuner's on GTPlanet have recommended installing "Improved Body Rigidity" on your Lamborghini's and Ferrari's if you're going to be running race tires.

As far as the OP's question... I think RS tires are pretty unrealistic and in a lot of cases make the cars feel like slot cars. As the PP value increases I believe that SH tires will allow you to get into a lot of trouble for over driving the car. Of course the same can be said for RS tires, but I think it takes a lot more to get in trouble with RS compared to the SH.

 

[FerrariFXX 07]

I know some of the well known tuner's on GTPlanet have recommended installing "Improved Body Rigidity" on your Lamborghini's and Ferrari's if you're going to be running race tires.

As far as the OP's question... I think RS tires are pretty unrealistic and in a lot of cases make the cars feel like slot cars. As the PP value increases I believe that SH tires will allow you to get into a lot of trouble for over driving the car. Of course the same can be said for RS tires, but I think it takes a lot more to get in trouble with RS compared to the SH.

Racing Soft (or any racing tire) is unrealistic on any street car. Believe it or not, I've found SH tires of lower to be better on sports cars because they were meant to use those tires. I know I've read that get better tires require better suspension, but half the time it doesn't work. Someone said they act like slot cars and they're right.
My tire PP scale is this
<400 PP: CH tires
401-465 PP: CM tires
466-530 PP: CS tires
>531 PP: SH tires
All tuners: SM tires (SS is a bit too much i think)
All race cars: RH, RM or RS (race cars like the Spoon Fit and Honda CRZ could try SS maybe?)
Ferrari FXX: This car is treated like a street car in GT6 when it isn't in real life. I classify this as a race car and allow race tires.

 

[TexasTyme214]

I think SH are the easier tire since they don't have that sharp fall off once you go over the limit. Thus, you can do more with SH tires in a sense. RS tires are a lot faster and easier below the limit, but when you're racing, you want to be right on the limit, not below. I think RS "feeling" easy in a street car is an indication that you can get more performance out of your car.

 

[Streeto]

Unless it's a time attack monster with 600hp~ I would never put slicks on a road car.

Main reason is, it just feels too arcadey and lifeless on a street car.

You don't have to worry about oversteer because frankly, the tires are so damn grippy it will stick to the road like glue.

Anybody can race on RS, but SH is another matter.

If you're used to RS, SH will have you spinning in every corner and hitting numerous walls.

It's not that I hate RS tires, just leave the race tires for the race cars.

Those "500pp RS" lobbies have me facepalming every time...

 

[GT_Alex74]

Surely, it is easier to stay on the road for the beginners. But will you learn something with them ? No.

Actually, the more grip you have, the more it is difficult to get the most out of it. Plus, grip losses are much more sudden and violent, and as the speeds are higher, you have less room for error and time to react. I even find some cars to be harder when you get better tires on, like the Ruf BTR, which feels odd to me as soon as I drive it with something above comfort softs.

And street tires are not so difficult to get used to, you really just have to give it a go and it will come. 99% of you can drive your real car without crashing it, no ?

In the end, if you manage to drive comfort tires without crashing all the time, the time difference with the best players will probably be less than what it would be on racing tires. So I didn't vote on the poll, because there's no fixed truth that always work on that question.

 

[gkgamer]

I'd say it is harder on RS because I think I am decent at riding PP350-CH, PP400-CM, PP450-CS, PP500-SH, PP550-SM & PP600-SS. Switch any of these PP categories (the lower particularly) to RS and just watch and laugh. I am a ridiculously unskilled RS driver...

 

[BrandonW77]

For years I've driven exclusively on comfort or sport tires. Last night I had 20 minutes to kill so did a few Quick Matches on racing tires and had a hell of a time controlling the car. Inputs that I'm used to having minor effects had immediate and extreme effects, and once they started to lose grip it was an almost immediate loss of control with a very small window to recover. This is mostly because I'm not used to driving on racing compounds, but I found the racing tires to be more difficult and less forgiving. I was quickly reminded why I avoid racing tires like the ebola.

 

[kilesa4568]

It feels like the RH tyres are pretty close to being the right grip level when you're using higher powered cars, but I'm used to them as they're the tyre I usually use for race cars with enough power to necessitate the grip.

@GT_Alex74

Your Mario Andretti quote seems apt for RS. The fault with RS is you seem to be able to drive too fast with them. Once you get up to the limit of them, you have to back off to keep their temperature in check. Kind of counter intuitive.

 

[GT_Alex74]

It feels like the RH tyres are pretty close to being the right grip level when you're using higher powered cars

You're talking about race cars only ? If so, I do agree completely to this.

Your Mario Andretti quote seems apt for RS. The fault with RS is you seem to be able to drive too fast with them. Once you get up to the limit of them, you have to back off to keep their temperature in check. Kind of counter intuitive.

This quote just fits my way of driving anything And I race on RS, maybe... 3 times a year, and only half the races

 

[kilesa4568]

Definitely only RH on race cars.

I've used them on higher powered road cars before, but ideally, they need suspension and brake upgrades to justify them. Those are bored moments though. I'd rather drive stock set ups and know what the car is really like to drive. At least how PD perceive them anyway. That includes using the tyres they get sold with, or at most, 1 tyre compound above stock.

 

[GT_Alex74]

If you want to get closer to what you would drive in real life, you should fit comfort mediums or softs. SH are at least semi-slick tires, definitely not what you will have fitted when ordering a new car. CM are kind of a high-end every-day road tire, CS would be something like Toyo R1R, close to a semi-slick tire with a road profile and softer sidewalls.

 

[kilesa4568]

With GT, we've got an unlimited supply of track day (and race) tyres to try out though. Wouldn't it be a better idea to upgrade the tyres slightly rather than using the road equivalent, considering you're on a track?

What I mean is, I wouldn't pay for a track day and use the tyres my GTC SRI came with, whatever they are. (I don't pay for them as it's a free Motability car.) It would be like driving overcooked racing softs in 2 laps. I'd pay out for a better, grippier tyre with good track day attributes.

 

[Johnnypenso]

With GT, we've got an unlimited supply of track day (and race) tyres to try out though. Wouldn't it be a better idea to upgrade the tyres slightly rather than using the road equivalent, considering you're on a track?

What I mean is, I wouldn't pay for a track day and use the tyres my GTC SRI came with, whatever they are. (I don't pay for them as it's a free Motability car.) It would be like driving overcooked racing softs in 2 laps. I'd pay out for a better, grippier tyre with good track day attributes.

I think Alex's point was that stock tires are already 1 or 2 grades higher than most cars would come with. In the end its all personal preference anyway.

 

[rosckolove]

I have taken both to the limit around the ring and a perfect lap is much harder to achieve on sports tires. To achieve the perfect lap around the Nurburgring ring on sports tires you really need to control weight transfer. Sure that matters with RS tires, but in comparison it's nothing to the amount of finesse you need with the harder compounds. Racing tires are more "point and go" Also, I can run many laps around the ring within tenths on both sets of tires. And I feel, reaching the limits on the sports tires takes much more concentration and consistency.

 

[GT_Alex74]

I think Alex's point was that stock tires are already 1 or 2 grades higher than most cars would come with. In the end its all personal preference anyway.

Yep, that's it. I like to use comfort softs on road cars, that's a good comparison to what many people would run on track-days.

I have taken both to the limit around the ring and a perfect lap is much harder to achieve on sports tires. To achieve the perfect lap around the Nurburgring ring on sports tires you really need to control weight transfer. Sure that matters with RS tires, but in comparison it's nothing to the amount of finesse you need with the harder compounds. Racing tires are more "point and go" Also, I can run many laps around the ring within tenths on both sets of tires. And I feel, reaching the limits on the sports tires takes much more concentration and consistency.

That's because you don't reach the RS tires limit. The SH limits appears much sooner, so you have to deal with that, that's why you need more concentration with them. I'm currently training with some of the best GT players (Lacombe brothers) on a RH combo, and those guys actually slide a bit. Replicating this on this kind of tires is much, much harder than on sports or comforts, and being slightly off on your movements can lead to several tenths lost or worse. If I don't do that, I'm litterally left off in the dust in less time than it takes to write it.

I think that if you don't slide a bit on some corners, you're probably at 70 - 80% of the tires.

 

[kilesa4568]

I see now.

If I remember right, they had a partnership with Yokohama for the tyre data but there's no way they could reproduce sidewall and tread deformation. I doubt any game could. It would explain why the tyres seem to perform so well for their class and why dropping a compound would feel more accurate.

I never thought about any of this stuff till I found this forum. So ignorant to it all.