What makes a game stand out for you? Why SCC now?

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Hun200kmh

Hun200kmh

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Although gtplanet is mainly a Gran Turismo fan site, we are lucky enough to have it being run by a man (not forgetting admins, supermods and mods) that is undoubtebly a GT fan, but not a GT fanboy.

So, we get lots of room in gtplanet to debate other racing games, and indeed if we are fans of the genre (more than fans of one particular game) we get to buy n' try lots of games.

Personally I own, playable with a PS3, the following racing games (by the order I got them):


1. Gran Turismo 5: Prologue

2. Race Driver: GRID

3. Ferrari Challenge

4. V8 Superstars

5. Need For Speed: Shift

6. Supercar Challenge




I guess the only racing games I'm missing are Formula 1: Championship Edition and bike games (MotoGP and SBK)
(Note: I don't regard Pure, Burnout Paradise, Motorstorm, Fuel or previous NFS games as "racing games").


Currently, I'm playing mostly SCC, but all the 6 games above have enjoyed some time of almost exclusive attention from me and my PS3.


So, I put myself the first question in the title ... "what do I think made those games stand out and worthy of being played?"


Well, this (in a very short version):

1. GT5P -

Good: Graphics, Physics, Suzuka

Bad: small game, no private lobbies



2. Race Driver: GRID

Good: Graphics, Damage, Le Mans with day/night cycle

Bad: Physics



3. Ferrari Challenge -

Good: Sound, wheel feedback, Spa, private lobbies

Bad: graphics, troublesome online



4. V8 Superstars -

Good: AI, tyre wear, the "racing"

Bad: small game, graphics (no cockpit view)




5. Need For Speed: Shift

Good: Graphics, Sound, the Nordschleife

Bad: AI, Physics



6. Supercar Challenge

Good: physics, online (and what I wrote about FC)

Bad: AI




Looking at all I wrote, I can imagine my dream game:

GT5P's Graphics, NFS: Shift's Sound, Race Driver: GRID's Damage and day/night cycle, FC/SCC's Wheel Feedback and online features and finally V8 Superstars' AI.

But, sadly, such a game doesn't exist.


So, here comes the second question:


Why SCC now?

Well, opinions are debatable, of course, but again looking at the above list of goods and bads I guess the answer becomes obvious:

1st, you take out the games that have physics classified as "Bad" (That's GRID and SHIFT if you are too lazy to look it up :D )

Note: I had a lot more trouble to make up my mind about Shift than I had with GRID. But in the end, and to add to confusing physics, I had an overall sense of arcadyness in the game itself, from the billboards to the AI behaviour to the points and badges and to every stupid destruction-derby kind of race I had to do offline .... and I really didn't want to spend more time with it.


2nd, you take out the games that have, under "Bad", the remark small game. You must understand that even a great game can become repetitive. GT5P lasted a lot longer than V8 in my PS3 because of the online buddies I had playing it for a long time. Sadly, none of my racing friends owns V8 SS so, after I completed the offline mode, there was really nothing else to do.

Even if I think that (beware, heresy coming up now :D ) V8 Superstars OFFLINE provides the BEST RACING of all the games I own, because of the AI it has and also because the game itself evolves around the recreation of an actual championship, and is very serious at doing it.



3rd, And because the games you have now left are just FC and SCC, it's only natural that you prefer the newest, latest, largest, more polished, more stable and overall better version of what is, basically, the same game.
That leaves you with SCC. And I have my second question answered.



If you got this far, thanks for reading 👍, I ask all to give me - and all readers, be they regulars or casual in this forum - your own input, mentioning what games you own(ed) and why are you playing ____(insert racing game name here )____ now.



PS - To Jordan, Admins, supermods and mods: I wanted to do this thread and for a while wondered where should I put it (GT5P, NFS Shift, FC, PS3, or here). Ultimately I decided to place it here because my current game of choice is SCC, so putting it on GT5P or SHIFT forums might look like a provocation and people are easily provoked nowadays. Placing it in the PS3 forum would probably make it a bit "missed" and, in any case, I really want to know WHY others chose SCC, if they did it for the same reasons I did or for different reasons. And since the SCC players won't miss it here ... that made my decision.



PS2 - As I wrote above, I don't think any of my usual online racing buddies owns V8 Superstars. And you all probably have read that V8 is a bad low budget game, with lowsy physics, graphics and overall poor everything. Well, I want to stress to you that there's no doubt in my mind about this:

- V8 Superstars has the best AI I have ever seen on any of the other PS3 racing titles;

- Therefore, V8 Superstars provides the best offline racing I have ever seen on any of the other PS3 titles. It reminds me a lot of the racing in TRD3, but don't ask me why.

But since images are much more valuable than words, I ask you all still doubtfull to watch one of the few youtube videos about V8 that are indeed worth watching.

And don't bother watching it all (it's a race at Valencia). Start by watching the two AI cars battling the human driver in the final lap (from 3:40 to the end) and then, if curious, watch the first part of the race.

You don't get this in any other PS3 game, unless you are online and battling good human drivers.

Enjoy:

[YOUTUBEHD]ufiSfjFHhfs[/YOUTUBEHD]
 
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The selection of good racing games for PS3 is very poor. I believe this is largely due to the capabilities of the PS3 - mammoth processing power, blue ray compatible etc. Development companies profits are not increasing proportionally to advances in console capabilities over time. So basically, the PS3 can do a lot more, so requires much more resources/development time, yet people won't pay much more than previous consoles' games, and sales have not increased at all to my knowledge, compared to PS1/PS2 (if anything, I'd say sales are less now that with PS1). So this is why we end up with a new low in software product quality as with SCC.

The market that many companies are aiming for, unfortunately, is this kind of elite "drifters" market - a bit like a Fast & The Furious theme; dramatisation of real life motorsport, bodykits, soundbites etc. Codemasters lost huge credibility for me after what they did with their series; following up a fabulous series of racing games (Toca, Toca2, up to Toca Race Driver3), with GRID. No doubt, they have well informed marketing teams etc. But is there a core base of online users for GRID? I don't think so. It seems like they market GRID to people who buy the copy, play it for a bit, and after that stuff them. I think this is a mistake.

If Codemasters just made a PS3 version of Race Driver 3, new graphics, damage, touch up some bits, change around championships a bit etc., I strongly believe it would clear the opposition for the PS3 racing game genre - be it serious simulation users ("sim heads" as the Eutechnyx admin says), or the less serious users with the reduced physics. I see a huge gap in the market, or rather, the market just seems to be totally lob-sided onto the hollywood/"drifters" side.

So we're left with FC and SCC, both of which are mediocre at best, if I be honest. SCC is more of a FC add-on than a new game. The cars drive kind of like the real thing, but there are a couple of whopping peculiarities in the physics, such as this automatic oversteer correction, and this steering-zone thing (where the tendency to oversteer is greater in a zone covering a corner). I've been thinking lately that perhaps the automatic oversteer-correction is a technical requirement - a sticky-tape job, for some other issue, which they had to put on at some stage beyond their requirements phase.

So to answer the 2nd part of the topic question - "Why SCC now" - I've explained it all above. There's nothing else I'm interested in. If there was a proper 'Race Driver 4' on the PS3, I would have no need for the Challenge series. That sounds very harsh, but I have to give an honest opinion. In saying that, of course I still enjoy SCC. But only because of the online play. And if the online play popularity reduces (or in fact, doesn't increase as it's currently not popular), personally my interest will be lost in SCC.
 
Ok Mario, I'll bite.

SCC: because you like racing on "familiar" tracks in "familiar" cars. ;)

Or: because you like all your tracks to have little mountains in the background, regardless of where the track is located. :dopey:

Shift gets the nod for: best in-car graphics (definitely inferior to GT5P in car modelling & replays however), sound, sense-of-speed, track selection, car selection, damage, clutch, online stability & functionality, & pit girls. I still get the feeling that there's more chance of getting a first-rate racing sim out of SMS/EA, than Eutechnyx/System3, unless the boys at Eutechnyx have recently appeared on "Dragon's Den".

My vote for best offline/AI is F1CE (I haven't tried V8 Superstars).
 
Considering the fact that I fell asleep yesterday at 9 PM , missed all my calls, missed 2 parties I was about to attend and finally woke up on "free of work" Saturday at 7 AM (something I imagined would never EVER happen), I feel quite responsible for your post (I think it was fueled by my remarks for your "hatred" ;) to GT5p in our Skype conversation). Since then I'll try to answer your question (maybe with a little twist) even without owning most of the games listed here.

Why NOT SCC now?

1. Online.

My "adventure" with online racing started with GT5p. To say that I was blown away with the level of competition and dedication when I found out about scheduled races with the members of GTP/GTRP/KOR and many more forums would be a great understatement. 12 cars grids, smooth and stable (more often than not) , fast and fair racing was the thing that I was really looking forward almost every evening/night (my big shout outs to ALL the members of the night time race crew, you know who you are !! but I digress). Of course it died after some time because how long can you race on the same 3 or 4 tracks without the feeling of boredom kicking in? Since then I can't find online racing experience that would come even close to GT5p level of excitement (and YES , I know about lack of lobbies , killer clio's , hiccups during matching etc). Why is that you can ask, well few points:

- graphics (I am graphics junkie , I like HD very much and from my POV nothing comes even close to GT5p in that department)
- wheel deadzone (I don't know why but the only game that didn't have this problems is the GT5p, every other one I tried since changing to wheel had bigger or smaller deadzone issues. Lazy software optimization? Hardware problems? I sincerely don't have a clue)
- "diversity of racers" (the biggest thing, from what I read in SCC/FC/NFS you always race with the same people over and over again, it is like with eating sophisticated meal every night , after some time I always look forward for some junk food just to keep things interesting, that's the same thing with racing. In GT5p you could always had some very technical events to race @suzuka or fuji on S tires but you could always wander into High Speed Ring for some 800pp, 80% of the track on full throttle events just to mix it up and there were always some tagged drivers looking for some close racing. I don't see it in all the other games)
- smoothness/collision detection (big gripe in SCC, absolutely the worst thing is being "sucked" into other car without any proper explanation why it happened. Also the collisions physics is just underwhelming, I don't have any idea if I punted someone or not. In the speakers I hear I had contact with someone but when I look in the mirrors the car I supposedly hit is nowhere near me?! It would be OK if it happened from time to time but from my experience it happens in EVERY race, so to counter this you have to turn the collisions OFF and as we all know racing with ghosts is not the same at all.)

Those are the ones from top of my head about online aspects of the racing genre on PS3 (and please excuse my bit chaotic writing, it is 8 AM! on free of work Saturday !! I'm still in shock!!!).

2. Offline.

From my experience in offline gaming nothing can beat F1CE , the AI was absolutely at its best in that game (in comparison to other racing titles, it had it issues). GT5p offline mode is just bad. I consider it as a training in mastering physics and tuning not as a game mode really. The AI was poor (even though when I tried NFS I started to think it was not that bad) , missions were not very interesting and whole "replay value" was low (I didn't even bother to get all golds for first time in GT game ever). I can't really talk about other games because my playing time with them was nothing more than a sample size.

3. me vs eutechnyx/system3

I hate developers/publishers who are not keeping their promises (I'm looking mainly/also in your direction EA!!) , where should I start:
- the DLC debacle in FC
- Lambo disappearance in SCC without a word of explanation from the devs
- availability (finding any Eutechnyx title in Poland is like looking for good looking girl at 4AM in a half empty bar at the outskirts of the city.. not easy)
- selling a new game at full price which in fact SCC is just an add on to FC with few new cars and 2 new tracks
- only "1 car make" races in both titles
- graphics (the games just don't look good.. at all.. when some of my buddies paid me a visit and I was just racing in SCC Beta they all thought my PS3 had backward compatibility with PS2, enough said).

If I think about anything else I'll try to edit my post (or make it less chaotic ;) )

P.S. I'm very impressed with the V8SS video , the grid is full of different cars , the AI looks good and the graphics are not as bad as I thought it would be. My gripes are , who the hell in the world follows that racing series? Packed venue on V8SS race (not sim!!!!). Where in that video is my favorite F1 reject Adrea Chiesa ????!!!!!!
 
The only games on your list i have is gt5p and shift. SSC is not sold in norway:( but a friend from holland is trying to get it for me :dopey: Hate the graphic in that game, but physics is nice and sim like. I dont quite agree that shift has bad physics, i thinks its very good for a arcade game!
 
I can agree what Mario wrote. I have all the games except Shift. Played the demo only and was very disappointed. Ok, the graphics, the sound is very good but the physics are the worst I have ever played. You cant really feel the cars, their behavier is nearly unpredictable. Oversteering on a straight in 3. gear at 150 km/h during acceleration as example.
Mario made a good vote for V8 Superstars. I began playing the game a few weeks ago. Also I am not too far advanced in the game, but I enjoyed my offline races very much. The AI is very hard to you if they brutally use your mistakes for overtaking. You have the whole race in a steady of gaining and regaining positions. The tyre wear feature is one of the best things in the game. No more full power during the whole race, taking every corner with the same speed. You have to rethink your driving if you are in the middle of the race and want to finish it. The feeling of loosing grip is phenomenal. I didnt play it online yet. So I cant say anything about the online capabilities. Maybe we can do a few race in future with Mario and others who will hopefully by the game. I got mine for 15 Euros and this is not too expensive.
 
After another night of Shift online, I would just like to add one thing:

One of the reasons FC was so good online was because there was a small selection of cars available to race with (& all one-make cars). This was further restricted by the fact that only about 10 of the cars were regularly raced online. As a result the level of familiarity & skill with those cars was relatively high which resulted in close racing where everyone (mostly) understood the braking points & the performance of the cars.

GT5P achieved a similar point by having no selection of tracks available - by the time you've run Suzuka for the 3,000th time, you have a pretty good idea of where you have to brake!

Shift is still a bit of a disaster, as there are a lot of tracks to choose from & lots of cars to run them in. It's impossible to find a group of racers collectively competent at a randomly chosen track/car combination.
 
Good point biggles. Thats why i have had my best races on tracks that is in other games, like laguna seca, spa and ring. I saw your friend request today, but i have some net problems so wont be on net in a few days:(
 
Unfortunately, there's no guarantee that other racers are going to be familiar with those tracks, even if they do appear in other games. I was rear-ended a couple of times last night by a guy who seemed like a good racer - I'm not sure if I braked too early, or he was just reckless - but regardless, he didn't wait, I ended up 10 secs back - what's the point of that in a 2-person race? :rolleyes:

That kind of thing hardly ever happened with our FC community. That's why I think the best strategy is to build a small community through a "Friends" list & gradually expand it.
 
Why SCC now?

Games I've owned so far on PS3..

1. Gran Turismo 5: Prologue (still own)

2. Ferrari Challenge (played and then exchanged for shift)

3. Need For Speed: Shift(played and then exchanged for SCC)

4. F1CE (played and then passed on )

5. Moto GP (played and then exchanged for Ferrari Challenge)

6. SCC (playing at the moment and will be exchanged for GT5)

7. Grand theft Auto(still playing because its not a driving only type of game :) )

All these games have good and bad points as Mario points out...Apart from GTA,Thats just a great all round game IMO... :dopey:

The reason for SCC being the hot game for me now is simply because I've played all the others and moved on,Yes I still play GT5P,only because I am still doing One or two events that have been on going,but soon to end.When the full fat GT5 comes out I shall return to it on a full time scale and all other games will gather dust,even GTA..

SCC has a great feel to it,the looks of it,as far as the cars go, Is not great,but the tracks make up for it,they look great.Handling wise,IMO the best on ps3 at the moment and the closest to GTR on the pc.

So SCC is getting me through a dry spell untill GT5 gets here or something else shiny catches my eye :)
 
I've offered bits and pieces of my sim racing background in various posts since I joined GTPlanet. But here it is again, as I feel it's relevant to this thread.

I was a complete video game junkie from the time I was roughly 10 years old until I was 17. I mean, I was a seriously addicted gamer. It's all I wanted to do. (Atari 2600, 800, 1040ST, Mall Arcades--game anywhere and everywhere). When I started University (1988), for a number of unrelated reasons, I lost nearly all interest in gaming, almost overnight. Over the ensuing 20 years, I bought or played a game here or there. But few, if any, held my interest for more than a few hours. And being a Macintosh user since 1991 meant my gaming choices were rather limited.

From the time I was young, I've always been a motorsports enthusiast. Formula 1, CART, DTM, WRC, WSC, Le Mans Series, ALMS, etc. So one would think I would have been quick to hop on the racing sim band wagon already back in the late 90s. But I never did.

Here or there, one of my friends with an Xbox or a PS2 would have me over to play PGR or GT4(?) or another with a PC had several older NFS games that I tried out from time to time. But it had been years since I played any video games and not only did I lack the interest but more importantly, I was inexperienced and rather useless with a controller. And I always thought that racing games in particular needed a wheel. I remember once trying to control a Le Mans Prototype on La Sarthe with a sixaxis and I just couldn't keep the car on the road. While the graphics were gorgeous, I wasn't getting much enjoyment out of it.

In 2003, I purchased Feral's Total Immersion Racing with a Logitech USB wheel, when I upgraded to a G5 Mac. It was like a new world for me. I played it to death. And I was very impressed with the game. But it was very limited. It was basically a port of the PS2/PC game which was released 18 months earlier and it had no option to race online. (Of course I had no idea at the time what racing 'online' even meant or why it's significant). I hadn't played TIR much since 2006. I knew all the cars and tracks and it was becoming dated and maybe a bit boring. Actually for those with a PS2 or PC, TIR was probably dated and boring long before I started playing it.

For those of you who are still with me, I'll spare you the long and drawn out story of how and why but just about a year ago, I purchased a PS3, G25, Playseat and several racing games all at the same time, and effectively threw myself back into gaming. Or at least lets say, racing games. I bought Lego Star Wars last Christmas, my only non racing title and have played it for a total of 3 hours.

I started off with F1:CE, Ferrari Challenge and GT5P. I've since added SCC, NFS:Shift and have V8 SS on order. Now that I have a Wintel Mac, I've also tried my hand at a few PC games such as GTR and TOCA 3, and a few demos here or there. Here's my take:

For the first two weeks I was going back and forth between GT5P, FC and F1. And it was confusing the hell out of me. I was new to the sim racing world (things had changed a LOT since TIR) and I was new to the PS3 and the G25 and just about anything and everything to do with gaming. (o.t. I remember the first time somebody sent me a PSN Friend Request and I was eyeing it suspiciously thinking, WTF is this? LOL) A total n00b. And I quickly realized that learning 3 different sets of physics, lots of different tracks and a lot more cars and play systems was just too much and completely overwhelming. So I decided to shelve two of the games and concentrate on one of them until I had 'mastered' it and would then move on to the others. For whatever reason I chose Ferrari Challenge. Perhaps because of this, Ferrari Challenge, and now SCC has a special place in my heart and I just feel more comfortable with it, it's cars, it's tracks, it's play system, than I do with other games. As we learned, it had a LOT of issues, and it's not surprising as it comes from a small developer and an even smaller publisher without deep pockets. But I think I chose the right one to start in the sense that it had the best FFB of the bunch and a GREAT online community of players (as Biggles mentioned in his post) many of whom I've developed both an online and private friendship with. An unlooked for and unexpected boon of having private lobbies and voice coms. But either way, I think I now tend to view other games using FC as the standard by which I judge others. That's not to say that I necessarily view FC as setting a HIGHER standard. Just that I use it as a basis for my comparisons. Where as the majority of people on GTPlanet use GT1-IV as the basis for their comparisons to other racing games. Or as I've learned in the FC section, a lot of them use TOCA3 as the basis.

Pros and Cons:

FC:
Good: Brilliant FFB, good lobby set-up and options, good selection of tracks and cars, voice coms and private lobbies, very good physics
Bad: glitches, on-line issues, limited options (same cars running against each other), no tuning, etc.
Comments: I think I've said enough in the above paragraph

GT5P:
Good: Good FFB, Suzuka, Wonderful, world class graphics, good selection of cars, impressive physics, good turning options
Bad: no private lobbies, limited on-line options, limited tracks, no mics
Comments: GT5 was the 2nd game I played. It was immediately obvious how wonderful the graphics are. It's just so impressive and still is. But the on-line play is very limited, lobbies were often full of punters, the collisions seemed silly (and I'm not just talking about lack of damage) and while the physics seemed impressive, the overall impression is that it's rather sanitized. As if the cars had all the weight of a piece of paper. It was just missing something.

F1:CE:
Good: Impressive lighting effects, good AI, pit stops (although silly execution)
Bad: No more NTSC on-line, limited options.
Comments: I never spent much time with F1 because by the time I started to really get down with it, I knew the online would be shut off in a matter of months. And it seemed a very difficult game to master and it didn't seem worth it. Certain aspects may be dated but it still has excellent feeling in the FFB when riding over bumps and ruts--no other game matches it. Why can't any of them duplicate it.

NFS:Shift
Good: Graphics, Sound, Visual effects, good selection of cars and tracks, Incredibly lag free on-line play
Bad: Rather silly (NFS like) in-your-face visuals, Arcade like physics
Comments: Over the last 6 months, I was so bullish on Shift. I was like a kid in a candy store or a toy store near Christmas. And that excitement rapidly faded when I started playing it. I still have it and will still play it from time to time. But to me, the heart and soul of any racing game, is the physics engine. And the one that Shift employs is maybe OK if you're just putting around. But when you start to push the car it's all together unrealistic. It's not even like driving a car. I'll come right out and say it, it's 🤬. And as such, it was by far, the biggest disappointed I ever experienced in a video game. Because my expectations were so high and it basically didn't meet any of them. At least not when it came to actually driving.

SCC:
Good: See FC plus better on-line system (which is also hopefully being patched in the coming weeks for even bigger improvement) and improved physics and FFB
Bad: Will undoubtedly suffer life without any add-ons
Comments: While I was really looking forward to shift, I was not really looking forward to SCC. As a beta tester, my impressions of the private beta were rather negative and there is nearly no new content compared to FC. But comparing and playing Shift and SCC back to back, over a period of a few weeks, I found every time I played Shift, I liked it less and less and every time I played SCC, I liked it more and more.

I won't comment on V8 as I don't have it yet and my experience with PC TOCA3 or GTR or Demos of Dirt 2, etc aren't worth dragging into this thread.

But to sum up the question, "Why SCC?" my answer is this. Because right now, if you want a 'realistic racing experience' on the PS3, it's the best there is. Granted, GT5 has MUCH better visuals. But it lacks feeling. Having a race in GT5P, while visually stunning is like having a sword fight but using two empty rolls of papertowel. And while Shift has better visuals and better sound, sorry, but that's NOT driving. If you want to call it, moving some boat or hovercraft or pushing a bunch of pixels around on a screen. But I want a realistic experience. And while I wish the graphics in SCC were better (a LOT better) from my own limited experience behind the wheel, it seems to bring me closer to the real thing than any of the other game I've played on the PS3. (In a less visual way than Shift). But in what really counts--what really matters.
 
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jjaisli
GT5P:
...As if the cars had all the weight of a piece of paper. It was just missing something.
Click to expand...

If you think with a wheel it's bad, try out a controller! I just can't go near any faster cars for serious use because once you get a bit of oversteer, it's just awful to deal with it. Steering is all done in advance; give steering input, and around 0.3s later than expected, it steers. This is a real problem when correcting oversteer, because you release the correction, but the whees keep turning for that crucial bit extra, and it throws you into a tankslapper.

The throttle in GT5P is also very troubled. The increase in throttle input is not directly proportional to the actual throttle output; the first 50% of input seems to control around 25% throttle output, and there's a window between around 70-90% which controls around half of the actual output. This is hugely problematic for exiting corners - squeeze the throttle bit more and more, and then suddenly - whack - wheelspin, oversteer, and then we're back to the problem I mention above.

If it wasn't for those problems, I would spend half of my time with GT5P time trials etc.
 
I like all kind of racing games, even arcade ones, if they are good. So for that reason, my list of games goes like this (in order of getting them): Motorstorm, GT5:P, Motorstorm: PR, FC, Dirt 2 and SSV8.

Actually I have done most of my online driving in arcade racers. I drove MS: PR quite a lot on online, GT5:P I only tried. Same with FC, I only tried it online but I've driven Dirt 2 on online quite nicely. Currently I'm playing Dirt 2 and SSV8. I really enjoy Dirt's online, it's well done, lag free and great possibilities for variable racing with friends. SSV8 I just got, so I haven't driven it more than tested it yet. But already I really like the "racing atmosphere" that it has. It's not like you are just planted to a race car from nowhere, you have to go through practice and qualify. It really adds a lot to the feel of the weekend and you certainly respect the upcoming race more. And watching that video by Hun200km/h, I'm really looking forward for the harder AI levels!


I guess I need to answer for the "Why not SC?" question.

After just playing FC through when I got the SC beta key, I didn't really feel like going for SC that just seemed like an add on to FC. I thought that I would get Shift, but when all those comments of the bugs got reported I decided to postpone getting it until it's fixed. (here SSV8 steps in, because it was so cheap and I had to get something :dopey:) There were other reasons against SC too, ones that are already mentioned in here like the promises of developers that never happen and so on. But for me one big issue was that I couldn't get the configuration that I wanted for my DS3, it was in FC but it got cut out from SC. But then I got a wheel and thought that now everything is ok. Until I drove the beta and couldn't get near my DS3 times, which were sucky and done in a quick test. Of course, this isn't proven fact, but I certainly did get the feeling that you can't drive with a wheel as fast as you can with DS3. If my impression is right, I for sure don't want to get a "simulation" racing game where you should use DS3 instead of wheel to get the top times and drive constant.

So, now I enjoy Dirt's online and learn SSV8 in offline. Shift could be worth considering after the patch. Possibilities to get SC in the future? Quite slim I'd say. I guess the community could be only reason to go for it.
 
I tell you guys, there's a global conspiracy against us racing gamers! Game devs/ publishers have an understanding about none of them making a good game, and about al of them doing good about something but bad about something else :grumpy:

Last night, as I connected to the PSN to play SCC offline (need to unlock cars and earn money to buy them) I immediately got a message from frawe asking if I wanted to try V8SS online.

Well, curiosity won over my previous intention so there I went. Here's a small writeup of "Goods" and "Bads"

GOOD -

No lag at all - I mean it. It's PERFECT. Hard to tell we are racing online.

AI cars racing with us - only game with this option in the PS3 (unless F1CE also has this, I don't know) and it is a blast. First, nothing separates them from human cars (sometimes I had a bit of trouble to see where frawe was while battling all those cars), then, they surely add to the racing itself.
One example: we started the race at Vallelunga and I made a mistake in the long "esses" just after the start. So, in a matter of seconds, I passed from 2nd behind frawe to ... 12th. When I returned to 2nd, the last lap was about to start and I had no tyres anymore to keep pushing. But I did a great race! :D

BAD -

Poor voice coms

Can't setup the car

No invite system

No private lobbies

No Grid options

Can't go online alone (like in FC, if no one else shows up in the lobby you can't start a race)


Thanks for your invite frawe, good racing and at last I tried V8 SS online, something I wanted to do for a long time. :)
 
Hopefully I'll be able to join you guys in V8SS in another 2 weeks. Of course, I'll need some time to learn the tracks. It's amazing to think a small developer like that can create a zero lag game. But then again, when it's been just the two of us, we've had races in FC that had almost no lag. I guess the real test is in a large lobby with participants spanning the globe. Something that won't ever happen in this game.

Just a correction, NFS:Shift also allows you to add AI cars to lobbies with no human participants.
 
jjaisli
Just a correction, NFS:Shift also allows you to add AI cars to lobbies with no human participants.
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You are right, I even remember racing you and Biggles at Spa with one AI. But in Shift that option is useless, because the AI acts like 10 kubica88's put together, so all you want after the first few corners is to ... kick them from the lobby :lol:

In V8 SS, however, the AI races you without trying to ram you off track. And, depending on the AI setting you choose, it can be really hard to lap faster than them. So, they're a good addition to a online lobby.

Anyway, the inability to setup the car is very bad. I played with the Jaguar and the default setting of that car has the brake balance set with a stroinger value to the rear. I always change that in offline mode because when tyres get worn out it's really easy to lock the rear wheels under braking.

The fact that I couldn't do it last night meant my last two laps in every race were very, very difficult. Don't know about frawe (he was with the Audi and I never drove that car), but in my case, with the Jaguar, it was really difficult to keep the car under braking.

After trying V8 SS online I maintain what I said in the first post ... best game would have:

GT5P's Graphics, NFS: Shift's Sound, Race Driver: GRID's Damage and day/night cycle, FC/SCC's Wheel Feedback and online features and finally V8 Superstars' AI.
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I may add now ... Shift's and V8 SS's lag-free online
 
Yeah, how you could you forget. I think Biggles even slowed down and waited for the 'AI' car, thinking it was one of us and the AI car side swiped him when it went by. :lol:

It's a cyclical argument Mario. The majority of sim racers would like something really hard-core. iRacing like in it's realism, but with the visuals of GT5 and options of a GT4. And the fact is, development costs on modern hardware to create the kind of photo realistic backgrounds and gameplay are astronomical. Only big developers with deep pockets can afford to pour that kind of money into it. And if they did, who would buy it? One has to consider that the 'average' GT5 purchaser, is not a GTPlanet regular but a casual gamer who plays in basic physics mode with the controller and likely never changes the default car settings. And it's a fine line that developers have to walk, creating a game that's 'easy' enough and 'fun' enough for casual gamers and realistic and interesting enough for those more demanding. I think it was SMS/EA's intention to walk this line with Shift, creating a game in a game with it's different play modes. But I'm afraid they really botched it, instead creating a game that's too difficult for the casual crowd and too arcade like for the sim crowd. It was maybe a step up from Grid but not by much.

We have to appreciate that the developers at Polyphony Digital or Turn 10 or Eutechnyx or Codemasters, may be genuine car, motorsports and racing enthusiasts, just as much and probably more than we are. And all of them likely have the desire to create the 'ultimate' driving simulator (some even claim they do). But those desires are governed by time, money & technical challenges (related to time and money) and also by the realities of those in charge of game development. And those in charge of game development know that ultimately, a measure of a game's success is not how great or wonderful or realistic it is, but by how many copies it sells and how much revenue it generates.

I still have some hope that the full version of GT5 will have much of what we want in a racing sim. Considering the length of time they've been working on it and the amount of money they've poured into it's development, it better be darned close to "as good as the PS3 can give us". Although, I'm guessing you can forget about day/night and weather effects until GT6. I should also make the disclaimer that I learned my lesson with Shift about allowing one's expectations to rise to levels that the game can't possibly meet. I said all along during Shift's development cycle that I was 'skeptical' and 'unconvinced'. But I think deep down I was so impressed with the still shots and Patrick Soderland's sincere testimonials that I bought into it all, hook line and sinker. Once burned...

And speaking of which, you can add SCC's fantastic rain effects into the mix. Did you drive the LM in cockpit view at Monza? Seeing the wiper swish back and forth and the rain 'smearing' across the windshield is pretty brilliant. One day maybe we'll 'have it all'. But I'm not holding my breath.
 
It was a great fun yesterday with Mario. Also it was my first online try with V8 and I am very impressed. As Mario wrote no lags, real racing atmosphere where the AI is really competitive. Sometimes you dont know if its human or AI or both together in a position fight. I remember the 2 Jaguars in front of me in a very hard and clean fight over some corners without hitting each other until I realized it was Mario with the AI. The tyre wear option adds more fun and scare to your race. Please please only one round to go. A great gap before entering the last round is no guarantee for winning the race. Just ask Mario. I drove the Audi and also had to struggle with my tyres like Mario. I always tried to "save" my tyres for the last rounds. But when you forced to push to get positions you dont have a choice. Anyway, it was fun, clean races, no kubicas88 and no lag.
 
frawe
I got mine for 15 Euros and this is not too expensive.
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My interest on V8SS is growing eventhough the letdown (to me) of not having an inside camera view while driving. And if I get it for that amount of money I would likely bought it. However, here I can only find it at 60/70 Euros!! Outrageous!:grumpy:
 
bullie, don't go to fnac or el corte ingles, those guys never lower the prices. Last time I checked fnac was still selling FC for 69,99. But ... if you go to a shopping center, you may get good deals. FC, as an example, was being sold at Feira Nova (Chelas) for less than 20 euros. New.

One other option is the GAME store at Colombo. They sell new and used games and maybe you can get V8 SS cheaper there.

A third option is to order it online like Jeff did, I think he got it very cheap!
 
Nice thread Mario, great read... That V8 Superstars is starting to interest me... I saw it in a store here for practically nothing, but didnt think twice about it.... Seeing the good words being thrown about here has raised my interest though... What could the physics in-game be compared to.... Because I did read a couple of reviews when the game came out and they werent too enthusiastic.... but reviews mean crap nowadays anyway, Id rather here it from people here in the community... Forgive me if it was mentioned somewhere but I havent finished reading everything but the first few posts... :D
 
Alan_G
Hmmm. I think I'll have a look for this V8 Superstars game.
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I Hope the racing simulation fans won't get disapointed.It's an arcade game just warning:)
But it looks good thought nice cars nice tracks(very nice) it was fun for a while...
maybe you want to take a look at this http://www.theracingelite.com/showthread.php?t=775 before taking a chance altought i think no one can be better judges than yourselves and when it cames down to opinions everyone has theyr one...
 
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