What porsche to buy as a second car?

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I want to buy a 911 because it's my dream car. I am lucky enough to have the means to buy a reasonably good second hand one.

Obviously the 993 model is the best looker. Moneywise the 996 might be the best choice for its practicality, build quality and value for money.

I'd like to know if fellow members of GTP have any experience with either of both models.

Thanks in advance for your comment 👍
 
Build quality would probably actually go to the 993 (the 996 came out while Porsche was going through a "phase"). Practicality would likely go to the 996 just because it is probably easier to maintain. As far as value for money, I'd say that would probably be about even.
Car and Driver did an article about buying a used Porsche a couple of years ago, but I think that might have been about the 964 rather than the 993.
 
If you want a cheap 911, you could go for a '70's Targa. Anything before or after will be more expensive. Though, a 996 would be good if you have the money. I've always wanted a 996 Turbo.
 
My choice is down between 993 and 996, preferably a c4 if at all possible.
I would like to spend around €30k but research shows €35k is more realistic for a good maintenance, mid-milage object.
 
I'd expect your money would get you further with a 993 than it would a 996 (i.e, top end of the market for 993s and lower end for 996s, though I could be wrong). Definitely the sort of car to buy on condition though rather than mileage etc.

996s have had their problems but whenever I've read buyers' guides they still seem to be pretty solid and if they've been well maintained the engine issues (oil seals, as far as I remember) shouldn't be a problem.
 
I'd probably go with the 911/930 era 3.2 Carrera from the late 1980s. They seem to be fairly easy to come by, and fairly reliable, from what I understand. A good friend of mine has an earlier version of the 911 Targa, and I don't think he has ever had a problem with the car, even when he drives it around everywhere.

I mean, c'mon... Best-looking 911, ever.

800px-911_Carrera.jpg
 
A budget of €35k (£30k) means you have loads of options - at least it does at UK prices where there's a big independent specialist market for 911's.

997
These now start around £30k for an early 04/05 with highish mileage... this would be by far the best option from a driving perspective as the 997 is a very modern drive. And the best looking modern 911 in my opinion.

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/1904053.htm

996
£30k will get you pretty much anything in the 996 range except a GT3/GT2. You could get a late, low mileage C4S or even a turbo for this sort of money. 996's aren't the best looking 911 for sure, but they are a much more modern car than a 993 - Better interiors, more refined, able to cover big distances in decent comfort etc.

Generally they are very reliable and relatively cheap to run - 02MY onwards = 2 years service intervals. But they can have engine issues... intermediate shafts and cylinder liners can go which means new engine (about £7k)... this doesn't affect Turbo's or GT models which have a different engine though.

C4S http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/1911992.htm
Turbo: http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/1893577.htm

Turbo's are immense performance machines... very fast and very secure... but they aren't so delicate to drive as a C2 for example.

993
IMO, 993's are over rated and over valued (993 Turbos start around £50k for a good one)... but the market thinks otherwise. Prices for 993's are really dependent on condition not age or mileage. Desirable models (C4S, Turbo's, RS's) are fetching much more that your budget will cover. Generally considered bullit proof. The advantage of a 993 is you're unlikely to lose so much on one over the next 5 years or so.

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/1799582.htm

964
£30k will get you in any 964 other than a RS model or a turbo 3.6. I've never driven a 964 so I can't really tell you much about them. But I do love the shape of the wide bodied cars.

911
Pre '89 911's are a specialist buy now... prices are so dependent on the particular model. £30k would get you a RS replica, a very nice turbo or one of the rarer older models. Bear in mind that these are old cars now and they are not a modern drive... no power steering for example!


As always, the best option is just beyond your budget... the best driving & best investment option is a 996 GT3. The engine in the GT3 has the motorsports derived block which does not suffer from the same issues as lesser 996's and GT3's are awesome to drive, plus values are steadily increasing now. But you really need £35k to get in to one.

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/1882487.htm

For most of the above you'd be able to chose between 2 or 4 wheel drive, manual or Tip and Coupe or Cab for similar prices... there's not usually a premium either way unless it's a specialist model. My preference is coupe, manual, 2 wheel drive... C4's don't feel the same to drive... they feel heavier and the steering just doesn't have the same delicacy as C2's.

Whatever you choose, make sure it has a perfect service history (quality independents are fine - doesn't need to be all main dealer), you get it checked over properly by a Porsche specialist and it comes with a 6/12 month warantee.
 
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Excellent post Stotty 👍

Im with you, 997 C2 manual coupe is what I would go for if possible :)
 
Thanks for the great writeup Chris 👍 I was actually hoping that you'd post some comments in this thread :)

From your side of the Channel the choice looks very easy and depends more on taste than on budget. Problem is that we have taxes on new cars that are much higher than in other countries and that affect second hand prices a lot. I already looked mouthwatering at UK second hand prices for Porsches and learned that you are much better of than we are.

964: this is a model I wouldn't choose as these cars are vintage and dangerous to pick in terms of possible maintenance bills. Also I don't know if I like it's driving characteristics ...

Here's an example of a decent 993 in NL. 10% up and that's just the beginning.

Same goes for a decent 996. Seems like prices go up for special models faster for 993's than 996's.

997: how the difference in prices can be so huge is best explained here and almost not to believe. The cheapest 997 I can find is about DOUBLE what you mentioned - check this one, a lower price is not to be found in the NL market.

See my problem?
- 997 is no option
- 996 and 993 prices are matched
- 993 is much older but WAY more pretty and has reputed better build quality
- 996 seems the rational choice but lacks character and sound, and the possibility of rear crankshaft oil leaks gives me nightmares in advance ...
- most models have tiptronic which I don't like and are known to have maintenance issues
- very few offered cars have the desired c4 4wd option

One last example to underline the difference in markets. Your 996 GT3 that does €35k would set me back ... almost double!!! Check this great looker at €60k :(
 
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When you say it like that, it seems you've already decided. The 993 would be prettier, better-built, more characterful, and more likely to have the right transmission. The one downside would be that 4WD could be harder to find.

Besides, it's a second car. Things like comfort and practicality are less important here than would normally be.

Just my 2 cents.
 
PM AMG. - he ran a 996 911 for a couple of years and in the Netherlands...
 
steven
Thanks for the great writeup Chris 👍 I was actually hoping that you'd post some comments in this thread :)

From your side of the Channel the choice looks very easy and depends more on taste than on budget. Problem is that we have taxes on new cars that are much higher than in other countries and that affect second hand prices a lot. I already looked mouthwatering at UK second hand prices for Porsches and learned that you are much better of than we are.

964: this is a model I wouldn't choose as these cars are vintage and dangerous to pick in terms of possible maintenance bills. Also I don't know if I like it's driving characteristics ...

Here's an example of a decent 993 in NL. 10% up and that's just the beginning.

Same goes for a decent 996. Seems like prices go up for special models faster for 993's than 996's.

997: how the difference in prices can be so huge is best explained here and almost not to believe. The cheapest 997 I can find is about DOUBLE what you mentioned - check this one, a lower price is not to be found in the NL market.

See my problem?
- 997 is no option
- 996 and 993 prices are matched
- 993 is much older but WAY more pretty and has reputed better build quality
- 996 seems the rational choice but lacks character and sound, and the possibility of rear crankshaft oil leaks gives me nightmares in advance ...
- most models have tiptronic which I don't like and are known to have maintenance issues
- very few offered cars have the desired c4 4wd option

One last example to underline the difference in markets. Your 996 GT3 that does €35k would set me back ... almost double!!! Check this great looker at €60k :(
Click to expand...

€33k for a 2000 996... my 2000 is worth maybe £15k! Could you import one from Germany? I'd have thought prices are also linked to supply and demand and there are loads of cars slushing about in the German market... though I'm not sure what prices are like I'd expect them to be similar to the UK.

Here's some more thoughts on the 996... The IMS issue is always going to be a concern, but you can cover yourself for this by making sure you have a decent warantee. Otherwise the 996 is as bullit proof as other Porsches. And the lack of the traditional Porsche noise is easily fixed with a sports exhaust system.

The 993 you posted a link to above is absolutely lovely... the RS PU on the front looks great and those wheels along with either coil overs or lowering springs give it a great stance. Assuming it's a good close up as it looks in the pictures, it's got all the right stamps in the service book, and it drives properly on that wheel/suspension combination it would make a great weekend toy. A standard 993 on 17's, running standard ride height, would not look quite so impactful!

Why are you set on a C4? Do you get lots of snow where you live? If you don't, a C2 is a better all round car. It's lighter, handles better and feels nicer to drive (particularly the steering). 2WD Porsche's have incredible traction even in the wet.
 
I got myself a 996 C4S from Wittebrug 4 yrs old and ran it for 2.5 years. Paid 70K and traded in for 41K, again at Wittebrug. Porsche Wittebrug was sold off the day I handed in my Porsche and was merged with Rdam & Adam.
They advertised my ex-car for 41K without any warrantee.

The car drove like it was on rails, went to Zandvoort Porsche training too, check out my photo album here on GTP. https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/album.php?albumid=716

The running cost of this daily driver is quite high.
Petrol 1:8.5 Vpower
Roadtax is cheap because the car doesnt weigh a lot
Insurance despite 75% no claim was high + I needed to have the GPS car tracking option too
Service a minimum of 1200
Repair cost - you dont wanna know
Tyres - a bloody fortune

Unfortunately I think I bought a lemon (maandag produktie) because it developed a lot of costly faults that needed to be corrected to keep on trucking.

I'd love to have a Porsche again one of these days, its the best roadcar Ive ever had, the road handling is exceptional and I would still have the car if it hadn't developed al these faults. You know that Holland has this attitude of you have a 911 and nothing else (Porsche wise). I would probably opt for a poor man's Porsche Cayman or Boxter, new or very young 2nd hand.

The seats in the back were good storage areas and my weekly shopping fits in the front. It was slightly more practical than my AMG SLK (hence my user name on this forum)

Now, I hope this hasn't put you off buying a Porsche. Remember though that paying 30-35K is a one off deal. It's the maintance that can kill you if you buy a lemon.


AMG.
 
Thanks for the writeup Rob 👍

But errr ... it's exactly a story like yours that would keep someone from buying a car like this, isn't it?

Could you tell a bit about your garage bills? Interesting to hear if they, like they say, had to do with the much recognised engine problem (rear crankshaft oil leaks).
The tyres, I can imagine that also has to do with what you do with your car - track days for example :)
 

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