What really makes the game? Physics Environment!

[FishHunters]

The one thing I'm most grateful for that Kaz and PD did was make such an AWESOME physics environment. It overcomes ALL the other deficiencies IMO.

Take for example the 458 Italia. I drove this car and was wowed by it. Particularly that little slide it has when cornering at high speed. What's awesome about it is the fact that that same "slide" is in the real car as evidenced by this video:



It lets me know that the other cars I've discovered I enjoy are probably just as realistic in their driving characteristics. I'm a big Grid fan because of the race; but since GT5 I've only had an inkling to go back to it. Can't get enough of discovering how these cars drive in the environment PD created!

 

[alvin23a]

I agree with you the physics are enjoyable for most people from hardcore GT fans to the bginers. If only if had the visual damage of grid.

 

[Force-Feedback]

I'm not too fussed on damage, i tend to drive clean all the time. But yes the physics are the best yet and very enjoyable to play unlike 'that other game'

 

[Skiddy]

O-o, another physics thread turning into damage modeling thread.. I can see where this is going..

 

[another_jakhole]

The one thing I'm most grateful for that Kaz and PD did was make such an AWESOME physics environment. It overcomes ALL the other deficiencies IMO.

That should be the "slogan" for GT5, for now.

 

[Whistle Snap]

GT tyre physics are rubbish, always have been. What's Polyphony's problem?

They have Bridgestone/Michelin/Pirelli/Goodyear in the game but couldn't get any real world data to build a competent tyre model. It's the number one thing that needs addressing because it's GT's biggest shortcoming.

 

[RayRoocroft]

GT tyre physics are rubbish, always have been. What's Polyphony's problem?

They have Bridgestone/Michelin/Pirelli/Goodyear in the game but couldn't get any real world data to build a competent tyre model. It's the number one thing that needs addressing because it's GT's biggest shortcoming.

This is where they need to take a leaf from Live For Speed. Forza 4 has obviously invested in taking time to model the tyre physics correctly and Live For Speed is simply 3 guys working freelance as mates who have designed a game that is not only completely customisable in terms of tracks and cars, but also has extremely good tyre physics (you can view replays seeing the tyres flex realistically, see the temperature, tyre wear whether it be even or uneven according to camber angle etc).

Before i turn the entire post into a gripe, i actually love gt5 and im completely hooked. Im going to be test driving many cars over many different setups before i give a complete verdict but from what ive seen so far im over the moon with it, tyre physics or not.

any deficiencies are made up when you have that fantastic close battle with your friends online and realise you were completely immersed in the race not even thinking it was a game.

 

[shigllgetcha]

Physics is probably the most important thing for hardcore racing fans but that doesnt mean you should expect passive fans that wouldnt appreciate the physics to see through the flaws

 

[FishHunters]

Physics is probably the most important thing for hardcore racing fans but that doesnt mean you should expect passive fans that wouldnt appreciate the physics to see through the flaws

There is a difference no doubt. The flaws are obvious if you're coming in looking for certain things having had experience with other racing games. They're obvious to the GT series follower. My point is (more radically) if it weren't for the great physics the game would've probably been in the trash already (throw in graphics too).

 

[CSLACR]

There is a difference no doubt. The flaws are obvious if you're coming in looking for certain things having had experience with other racing games. They're obvious to the GT series follower. My point is (more radically) if it weren't for the great physics the game would've probably been in the trash already (throw in graphics too).

Yes, without it's strong point GT5 would suck.
Without cop chases NFS Hot Pursuit might suck too.
Without better online play and features Forza might suck too.

My only problem with GT5 is the obvious things they chose to put on the shelf for later. 90% of my NFS Shift time was online. 99% of my GT5 time is offline, but slowed down because I signed in anyway.
In racing games in general, 95% of my time is spent racing, and climbing some type of ladder to the finish.
In GT5 90% of my time is saying "the hell with finishing this game, I can't afford a new PS3, so let's goof off.


But as per the OP, I have to say the driving experience is obviously the redeeming quality GT5 offers. And it is fantastic. 👍

I never ran the Nurburgring in shift just because, or to compare cars.

 

[TeddyBear-420]

as long as your using the right tires for each car then yes, but if you put racing softs on everything then its just like an arcade racer

 

[replacement]

GT tyre physics are rubbish, always have been. What's Polyphony's problem?

They have Bridgestone/Michelin/Pirelli/Goodyear in the game but couldn't get any real world data to build a competent tyre model. It's the number one thing that needs addressing because it's GT's biggest shortcoming.

Can you elaborate... What exactly are the problems with the tire modeling? I'm legitimately interested, thanks.

 

[JohnBM01]

Gran Turismo 4 had the worst driving model of any GT. Gran Turismo 5 has the best driving model of any GT. I've said on GTPlanet and in my primary blog that you can afford to be more aggressive behind the wheel with GT5's model. Same applies for the vicious crashes GT5 has. I realized why my higher-end cars were so tough to handle- I disabled ABS and turned off Traction Control. The more powerful machines can be brutal to race.

I have noted that the Lotus Evora is one of my favorite cars in the game. It's fun to drive to me. It was even a fairly good drift car as I tried it out in a Drift Trial around Eiger Nordwand Short Track.


But yeah... mad props to PD for a solid model here. It is the best and most realistic driving model of any GT I've played.

 

[CSLACR]

Gran Turismo 4 had the worst driving model of any GT. Gran Turismo 5 has the best driving model of any GT. I've said on GTPlanet and in my primary blog that you can afford to be more aggressive behind the wheel with GT5's model. Same applies for the vicious crashes GT5 has. I realized why my higher-end cars were so tough to handle- I disabled ABS and turned off Traction Control. The more powerful machines can be brutal to race.

I have noted that the Lotus Evora is one of my favorite cars in the game. It's fun to drive to me. It was even a fairly good drift car as I tried it out in a Drift Trial around Eiger Nordwand Short Track.


But yeah... mad props to PD for a solid model here. It is the best and most realistic driving model of any GT I've played.

Do you mean in it's time, or something other than realism? I know you can't believe GT1 (or 2) had better driving physics.

 

[NLxAROSA]

Actually, the physics in GT5 are rubbish. But that doesn't stop it from feeling realistic at all, and that's where GT5 really shines. PD really payed attention to how cars handle in real life and they managed to capture that extremely well, even though they don't use a proper physics model. Getting in an SL55 and seeing the ESP stutter when you floor it through a corner is just marvellous, because that's what it does in real life. Same goes for other cars.

While other games (both console and pc) have physics models that are miles beyond GT5, they fail to capture the true feeling of the cars. You can have a car behaving completely realistic in those games, but it doesn't always feel like the real thing.

 

[Flogger]

I was racing online with my 1967 Mercury Cougar, and the way it sets into a high speed sweeper is amazing.

 

[Vagabond]

In racing games in general, 95% of my time is spent racing, and climbing some type of ladder to the finish.
In GT5 90% of my time is saying "the hell with finishing this game, I can't afford a new PS3, so let's goof off.


But as per the OP, I have to say the driving experience is obviously the redeeming quality GT5 offers. And it is fantastic. 👍

Spot on 👍 I've never finished a GT "game" 100% I don't think, so I wouldn't consider that a specific flaw of GT5. The "carreer" aspect of GT in general, and its game % progress has never been the point of GT for me.... rather it was collecting cars and racing them in arcade mode or hot lapping that was the point. Still is the point as it happens.

I suppose you could consider me a "sim racer" - I have had every GT game from the first, yes, but in between them I discovered PC gaming and have spent much time in the company of rFactor, GTR2, GT Legends, GTR Evolution.... Anyone who has played any of these with user made mods will probably know how difficult it to make realistic physics dynamics. Tyres are the worst bit - its virtually impossible at this point to make tyre physics anything like realistic. The best we can do is compromise by saying "let's fudge some things" - I spent a year myself trying to develop a physics model for F1 tyres on rFactor and I actually understand real world pneumatic dynamics. It was well received by the punters who tried it but, to be honest, I'm still working on it. Situations continue to arise that show me the limitations of the model, although rFactor's physics engine seems to do a strange thing with inertia (wanders off a bit....)

....GT's physics engine is very good. Better than rFactor's I would say, in terms of suspension behaviour and inertia. Tyre models, though, are a bigger compromise than rFactor's and some of the tyre behaviour beyond the limit of grip is quite bizarre (F1 cars are good example) - its a bit hit and miss though and I have to say that some of the car/tyre combos are absolutely spot on in terms of driving feel. That isn't to say it is entirely accurate since impossible lap-times are still the norm in GT5 but it is definitely one of the best I have experienced, particularly on a console.

Oh and if any of you have GT Legends and want to try out one of my physics setups, I did a makeover of the Lotus Cortina with a tuned Lotus 912 turbo engine, Bridgestone RE92 tyres and OZ Racing alloys:

http://www.nogripracing.com/details.php?filenr=29065

 

[VBR]

The physics in GT5 are good, just as long as you have the right car/tyre combo, putting Racing Softs on everything regardless will ruin it.



👍

 

[vandaliser]

when you take a car to the ring, it just showcases everything that is beautiful about GT. You can look at the scenery whilst driving 150 miles per hour and also feel every bump, crack, dip and corner of the track.

when you add night racing and weather, it just becomes extra ordinary.

My only wish was if we had more real world tracks in GT. I want silverstone and spa PD!

 

[Vagabond]

+1 for Spa, that would be fantastic.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

Gran Turismo 4 had the worst driving model of any GT.

I disagree.
Rather than "worst" I believe it was in many ways the most difficult to adjust to, having employed the understeer characteristics that it did, that are present in most cars.
However I found that the cars that would not likely display understeer, did not in GT4.
Having played GT4 to the hilt for 3 yrs., admittedly I grew very accustomed to the physics model, and maybe more inclined to use it as a standard.

Gran Turismo 5 has the best driving model of any GT.

Generally, I agree.
But I think this is very example dependant.
At times I totally agree, but at other times I don't.

I've said on GTPlanet and in my primary blog that you can afford to be more aggressive behind the wheel with GT5's model. Same applies for the vicious crashes GT5 has. I realized why my higher-end cars were so tough to handle- I disabled ABS and turned off Traction Control. The more powerful machines can be brutal to race.

This I can agree with.
The same cars in GT4 were generally a little easier to drive than in GT5.

But yeah... mad props to PD for a solid model here. It is the best and most realistic driving model of any GT I've played.

Overall I agree GT5 is better, but not in every instance.
The physics model in combination with the graphic rendering of the enviroments is GT5's strong suit.

 

[VBR]

when you take a car to the ring, it just showcases everything that is beautiful about GT. You can look at the scenery whilst driving 150 miles per hour and also feel every bump, crack, dip and corner of the track.

when you add night racing and weather, it just becomes extra ordinary.

HELL YEAH! That is the best thing ever, we're racing there tonight at my stock car event with weather on & set to sunny/not fixed, with a real time day to night transition too. Check out the Saturday Stock Car Series link in my sig if you're interested.


👍

 

[Exorcet]

While other games (both console and pc) have physics models that are miles beyond GT5, they fail to capture the true feeling of the cars. You can have a car behaving completely realistic in those games, but it doesn't always feel like the real thing.

The more accurate the physics, the more the car feels like the real thing. I don't understand your post.

 

[Spagetti69]

The more accurate the physics, the more the car feels like the real thing. I don't understand your post.

It's probably something he can't quite put his finger on.

It usually is.

 

[dhandeh]

I hadn't played gt5 for 3 to 4 months, then got shift 2, which has everything apart from the physics right, I've now got my gt5 bug back due to how good the cars handle. The physics are everything with this.

 

[replacement]

While other games (both console and pc) have physics models that are miles beyond GT5, they fail to capture the true feeling of the cars. You can have a car behaving completely realistic in those games, but it doesn't always feel like the real thing.

Interesting thought. Don't lap times for numerous cars in game vs real life match fairly well with GT5 though (assuming realistic/correct tires)? I'm just trying to figure out the actual shortcomings of the game physics (what makes them "unrealistic" but feel right)... there are a lot of things the game seems to do well, for example shifting weight fore/aft and the effect on front/rear grip levels.

 

[replacement]

I hadn't played gt5 for 3 to 4 months, then got shift 2, which has everything apart from the physics right, I've now got my gt5 bug back due to how good the cars handle. The physics are everything with this.

Arcade racer vs sim.

 

[FishHunters]

The Lotus Elise falling off the table at the first turn on Top Gear.
The Mercedes SL-300 sliding off the rails on the turn after the first long straight on Nordeschleife.
Doing multiple spins after breaking too hard on turn one Daytona Road course.

I could go on but you get my point. Best Physics on a console!

 

[NLxAROSA]

The more accurate the physics, the more the car feels like the real thing. I don't understand your post.

I'll explain.

While GT5 doesn't model things properly like the tyre model (no temperatures, pressure, different segments, etc.), has a simplified suspension model (e.g. simplified springs/dampers, no caster, no bump stop, no positive camber), no brake physics (e.g. modeled fade/temperatures), dumbed down online physics, exaggerated draft, etc. etc. it still manages to capture the real-life feel of the cars. E.g. when I get into a 350Z, it pretty much feels like the one I owned in real life. Same applies to other cars I have driven and/or owned.

There are other games out there that model all the things I mentioned, but still don't manage to capture the real-life feel of the car. E.g. you get into that same 350z, and it behaves like a real RWD car would in terms of physics (e.g. things like brake fade, suspension behavior, etc.) and you can tune it like in real life, but it just doesn't feel like a real 350z.

And that's what I love about GT5. But the best physics on a console? Nope (my opinion). And to me, GT5 is more about other things than just physics. The sheer volume of cars combined with tracks makes online marvelous with the right friends. E.g. only in GT can you take a 1000HP Viper to a snow track. And that's what makes the game for me.

It's probably something he can't quite put his finger on.

It usually is.

What's your problem?

 

[Spagetti69]

What's your problem?

Other than the fact I'm waiting for shoulder surgery, nothing. All is gravy.