What the hell?!?!

[ElementRacer]

im racing at Interlagos in Huracan GR4
Work my way from 7th to 1st, need to pit as im running out of fuel, one or two other people pit, no-one else does, i come 4th overall, what in the hell??????

 

[zzz_pt]

im racing at Interlagos in Huracan GR4
Work my way from 7th to 1st, need to pit as im running out of fuel, one or two other people pit, no-one else does, i come 4th overall, what in the hell??????

Fuel management. In most GR.4 races, it's better not to pit. Especially at Interlagos, since it's one of the longest pit lanes. You loose way too much time there.

 

[Nuschel01]

Maybe they're using another fuel map which cuts power but increases mileage 💡

EDIT: Tree'd
What fuel map is the best btw? I tend to struggle as I put it on 5 or 6 which then leads to having way too much fuel left towards the end but if I put it on 3 or 4 the indicated laps don't really match the distance left.

 

[ShiftingGears]

I think it's because you pitted and they didn't

 

[ASH32]

You don't pit, if you are using the M4 anyway, seems to be the same with other cars too but I can't say for sure.

I have to run map 2 for a few laps and then 1 for the rest.

 

[Robben]

Maybe they're using another fuel map which cuts power but increases mileage 💡

EDIT: Tree'd
What fuel map is the best btw? I tend to struggle as I put it on 5 or 6 which then leads to having way too much fuel left towards the end but if I put it on 3 or 4 the indicated laps don't really match the distance left.

Go up to 4 or 5 then gradually reduce as the 'laps left indicator' updates... it needs some data on how you drive to gauge the amount of laps you can complete so just keep an eye on it

 

[ElementRacer]

Oh damn i didnt even think about the fuel map. Dagnabbit

 

[Robben]

 

[ElementRacer]

Havent played in a few weeks. Completely forgot about that aspect, thanks guys

 

[Robben]

Even when you saw competitors going in the Pit Lane and with a giant P next to their names? lol

 

[ElementRacer]

Even when you saw competitors going in the Pit Lane and with a giant P next to their names? lol

What? I said i pitted

 

[Robben]

Sorry, got it wrong way round... you pitted when others didn't. But I wrote that post thinking that you had run out of fuel.

 

[colic]

You don't pit, if you are using the M4 anyway, seems to be the same with other cars too but I can't say for sure.

I have to run map 2 for a few laps and then 1 for the rest.

With the 991 you can run the full race on fuel map 1, tyres get a bit dodgy towards the end but quicker then pitting

 

[mikevillena]

No pit strategy with Gr3. GTR with fuel map kept at 1 throughout. Short-shift often, coast and drop race pace a few seconds for the first 3 laps to save fuel and most importantly the front tires. Massive understeer due to worn out front tires will hurt a lot in the closing stages. Same strategy for Bathurst.

 

[zzz_pt]

Fuel depletion varies so sometimes it might be better to stop, others not to stop. I tend to run most of the longer races without pitting. Short shifting and fuel maps give me better results. If you're behind someone, even better because you can take advantage of the slipstream to save fuel and either a) change to fuel map 1 sooner at the end of the race or b) have a shorter pit stop because you won't need to refuel as much as the guy who was driving ahead of you.

 

[banckzy]

Fuel depletion varies so sometimes it might be better to stop, others not to stop. I tend to run most of the longer races without pitting. Short shifting and fuel maps give me better results. If you're behind someone, even better because you can take advantage of the slipstream to save fuel and either a) change to fuel map 1 sooner at the end of the race or b) have a shorter pit stop because you won't need to refuel as much as the guy who was driving ahead of you.

have to say I used your strategy the other day at interlagos (daily race C) and didnt take a stop. had a nervous final lap but ended up winning by 0.2sec.... was in second place until the guy in front pitted on lap 4, for him never to be seen again

 

[VFOURMAX1]

You don't pit, if you are using the M4 anyway, seems to be the same with other cars too but I can't say for sure.

I have to run map 2 for a few laps and then 1 for the rest.

With the 991 you can run the full race on fuel map

Is this a another case of where the game gets it wrong as compared to the real world racing they are trying to simulate with the games BoP limits?

In the real world fuel mileage and fuel capacity and fuel refueling rates are all a part of BoP standards.

I can understand how if a person cuts the power back with a fuel map by using a lower power level how one car can reasonably be explained to not unfairly gain an advantage of time or distance is gained in its ability to go further between refueling stops against a car that does not change from fuel map 1.

But if both cars are running the same full power fuel map and the same pace on track for the races duration then because of the difference in the total fuel capacity the cars are allowed to carry which differ because the BoP sets the difference to prevent exactly the situation of a car that benefits from better fuel mileage from gaining an on track advantage of not needing to pit while a car that gets less fuel mileage is forced to lose the time on track due to having to pit.

Car A should not be able to run full race distance while car B is forced to pit to have enough fuel to finish running the same race distance using the same full power fuel map for the duration of the event if the BoP standards are set correctly within the class.

Using real world BoP standards not only is the total amount of fuel capacity different between vehicles a car that would say only use 12 gallons of fuel over what would be considered a full fuel run compared to a vehicle that would require say 16 gallons for the full run the car that only required the 12 gallons would have the flow rate to fill the tank restricted so that it would take the same amount of time in the pits to put the 12 gallons in the one vehicle as it would to put the 16 gallons in the other vehicle.

Again those differences are so one vehicle will not gain an advantage in the race by requiring less time in the pits to complete a service designed for a car to run the same amount of laps.

So one car being able to complete a full race distance running a full race distance using fuel map 1 and not needing to stop or needing less fuel as a result of better fuel economy of the vehicle and gaining a faster pit stop as a result would actually be by products of incorrectly implemented BoP standards for the fuel mileage or capacities of the different cars within the class.

Why have BoP standards when they still give certain cars advantages over other cars within the class whether it be power for acceleration or speed, weight for the same or handling or fuel mileage which dictates losing time in the pits or not that directly influence the race results be dominated by certain cars as compared to the others in the class?

Again using a strategy that involves lower fuel maps or driving at a slower pace or using driving methods to intentionally save fuel will affect the above and should be taken into account.
Tire wear would not be considered an issue.

But the ability of one car being able to run flat out fuel map 1 full distance while the same cannot be accomplished by other vehicles in the class is in my opinion a BoP problem which needs to be adjusted.

So is it an actual problem on some cars with the BoP or just drivers stretching fuel mileage that are causing some to question the ability of some cars not needing to pit while other cars cannot make the distance at all?

 

[MilkandMelk]

Could be one of four reasons

1: They already pitted and passed you in the pit

2: They didn't spend as much time in the pit, maybe they didn't change tires or didn't use as much fuel

3: They turned their fuel map up and cruzed to the finish

4: They're in Megans and cannot be beat

 

[zzz_pt]

4: They're in Megans and cannot be beat

Yes they can be beaten. Did just that with the M4 4x in a row.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Is this a another case of where the game gets it wrong as compared to the real world racing they are trying to simulate with the games BoP limits?

In the real world fuel mileage and fuel capacity and fuel refueling rates are all a part of BoP standards.

I can understand how if a person cuts the power back with a fuel map by using a lower power level how one car can reasonably be explained to not unfairly gain an advantage of time or distance is gained in its ability to go further between refueling stops against a car that does not change from fuel map 1.

But if both cars are running the same full power fuel map and the same pace on track for the races duration then because of the difference in the total fuel capacity the cars are allowed to carry which differ because the BoP sets the difference to prevent exactly the situation of a car that benefits from better fuel mileage from gaining an on track advantage of not needing to pit while a car that gets less fuel mileage is forced to lose the time on track due to having to pit.

Car A should not be able to run full race distance while car B is forced to pit to have enough fuel to finish running the same race distance using the same full power fuel map for the duration of the event if the BoP standards are set correctly within the class.

Using real world BoP standards not only is the total amount of fuel capacity different between vehicles a car that would say only use 12 gallons of fuel over what would be considered a full fuel run compared to a vehicle that would require say 16 gallons for the full run the car that only required the 12 gallons would have the flow rate to fill the tank restricted so that it would take the same amount of time in the pits to put the 12 gallons in the one vehicle as it would to put the 16 gallons in the other vehicle.

Again those differences are so one vehicle will not gain an advantage in the race by requiring less time in the pits to complete a service designed for a car to run the same amount of laps.

So one car being able to complete a full race distance running a full race distance using fuel map 1 and not needing to stop or needing less fuel as a result of better fuel economy of the vehicle and gaining a faster pit stop as a result would actually be by products of incorrectly implemented BoP standards for the fuel mileage or capacities of the different cars within the class.

Why have BoP standards when they still give certain cars advantages over other cars within the class whether it be power for acceleration or speed, weight for the same or handling or fuel mileage which dictates losing time in the pits or not that directly influence the race results be dominated by certain cars as compared to the others in the class?

Again using a strategy that involves lower fuel maps or driving at a slower pace or using driving methods to intentionally save fuel will affect the above and should be taken into account.
Tire wear would not be considered an issue.

But the ability of one car being able to run flat out fuel map 1 full distance while the same cannot be accomplished by other vehicles in the class is in my opinion a BoP problem which needs to be adjusted.

So is it an actual problem on some cars with the BoP or just drivers stretching fuel mileage that are causing some to question the ability of some cars not needing to pit while other cars cannot make the distance at all?

From my experience last night at Bathurst between the 991 and the Corvette C7, BoP is not working when pit stops come in to play.
With the 991 I could drive fuel map 1 and only 2 for the mountainous section, 1 pit stop end lap 5, 5% left, finish the race with fuel left over, it actually had a little more fuel for the second half. You can make the first 5 laps all out at fuel map 1, need to save a bit in the second half.
With the Corvette C7 I started the same, yet in the pit stop the tank filled up slower and only to 70% or less (3.4 laps estimate on pit exit vs 5.1 for the 991) I assume because it has a bigger tank yet the flow rate and liters you can get in the pit are the same. So it started out with more fuel at the start, yet the pit doesn't fill it properly. I had to go to fuel map 5 to be able to finish the race, severely handicapped compared to the 991.

Some people needed to pit twice in that race.

Besides that, with fuel use said to x4, wouldn't it make sense to gain fuel 4x faster as well to even things out.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

While the game was offline I did 3 timed custom races to try to compare the fuel consumption rates on three different GR 3 vehicles as questions were raised about fuel mileage differences causing some cars to pit and not others.

I set no tire wear, 4x fuel consumption with BoP activated and used Kyoto Yamigawa circuit. The three vehicles were the GR3 Corvette, GR3 911 and the GR3 Toyota FT1. I did not want tire wear to affect drive ability on this trial run at all.

I drove easily repeatable race lines using two tires on some curbs but no further off the tarmac. Pace was just a steady 137.0 as this was to compare between cars and I wanted to easily drive the same with all three vehicles.

I will say I was surprised all three cars ran 7 full laps and all three ran out of fuel within 50 ft of each other right after cresting the uphill in the esses and heading down towards the left sweeper.

So although my test is unscientific and only three vehicles in one class my results show on fuel map 1 driven basically the same lines with the same aggression the fuel mileage between those three cars is about as even as you can ever hope to see.

From this limited sample only I would have to conclude it was fuel map and driving differences that allowed 1 car to not pit while it was required with another car. At least between these three the fuel mileage and fuel amounts on board the vehicle the BoP IS CORRECT.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

While the game was offline I did 3 timed custom races to try to compare the fuel consumption rates on three different GR 3 vehicles as questions were raised about fuel mileage differences causing some cars to pit and not others.

I set no tire wear, 4x fuel consumption with BoP activated and used Kyoto Yamigawa circuit. The three vehicles were the GR3 Corvette, GR3 911 and the GR3 Toyota FT1. I did not want tire wear to affect drive ability on this trial run at all.

I drove easily repeatable race lines using two tires on some curbs but no further off the tarmac. Pace was just a steady 137.0 as this was to compare between cars and I wanted to easily drive the same with all three vehicles.

I will say I was surprised all three cars ran 7 full laps and all three ran out of fuel within 50 ft of each other right after cresting the uphill in the esses and heading down towards the left sweeper.

So although my test is unscientific and only three vehicles in one class my results show on fuel map 1 driven basically the same lines with the same aggression the fuel mileage between those three cars is about as even as you can ever hope to see.

From this limited sample only I would have to conclude it was fuel map and driving differences that allowed 1 car to not pit while it was required with another car. At least between these three the fuel mileage and fuel amounts on board the vehicle the BoP IS CORRECT.

So perhaps the error is the fuel flow rate and how much is refilled in the pits? Because until the first pit the difference wasn't really there between the C7 and 991, I entered the pit at end of lap 5 both with 5% left. Yet the C7 filled up slower and got a smaller percentage back.

However I've also had daily C races where some vehicles could make it on fuel map 1 the entire way, while with others I had to conserve fuel.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

Chevrolet Corvette C7
FR 551HP 1300Kg
@1 ~126km; @2 ~145km; @3 ~163km; @4 ~182km; @5 ~200km; @6 ~219km

Porsche 911 RSR
MR 510HP 1243Kg
@1 ~117km; @2 ~135km; @3 ~153km; @4 ~170km; @5 ~188km; @6 ~206km

Toyota FT-1 VGT
FR 544HP 1280Kg
@1 ~126km; @2 ~145km; @3 ~164km; @4 ~182km; @5 ~200km; @6 ~219km

These numbers are from the fuel consumption sticky at the beginning of the forum.

If you look you can see on fuel map 1 that both the Corvette and the FT1, the other car I included in the test both are rated at 126km for a tank of fuel.

The 991 on fuel map 1 only goes 117km per tank.

That would explain why the Corvette would take on fuel at a slower rate so that it would take the same amount of time to take on the fuel required to go the same distance as part of the BoP.

The 911 gets worse mileage so uses more fuel but the BoP will be allowing for a larger tank size to compensate the worse fuel mileage to be able to go the equal difference.

I have noticed that in the offline races that the pits will sometimes automatically send the vehicle out with less than a full tank if the car only needs x amount to finish the race by the pits calculations.

Perhaps that is why the Corvette was not filled completely. Perhaps switching the maps back and forth screw up the calculations the pit crew uses to choose a default amount to quit fueling at.

It should be driver controlled by default actually but apparently that is not always true.

 

[Tristan Jones]

These numbers are from the fuel consumption sticky at the beginning of the forum.

If you look you can see on fuel map 1 that both the Corvette and the FT1, the other car I included in the test both are rated at 126km for a tank of fuel.

The 991 on fuel map 1 only goes 117km per tank.

That would explain why the Corvette would take on fuel at a slower rate so that it would take the same amount of time to take on the fuel required to go the same distance as part of the BoP.

The 911 gets worse mileage so uses more fuel but the BoP will be allowing for a larger tank size to compensate the worse fuel mileage to be able to go the equal difference.

I have noticed that in the offline races that the pits will sometimes automatically send the vehicle out with less than a full tank if the car only needs x amount to finish the race by the pits calculations.

Perhaps that is why the Corvette was not filled completely. Perhaps switching the maps back and forth screw up the calculations the pit crew uses to choose a default amount to quit fueling at.

It should be driver controlled by default actually but apparently that is not always true.

I love that people care about testing this stuff.

I did note that someone mentioned that the fuel tank sizes did not appear to be the same. This could effect how many laps you could do - and technically have a sizable difference on wear/ fuel rate due to the weight of the extra fuel load.

Also, I have also noticed the game not filling the tank all the way at times. After a few tests, I am pretty sure I found the answer - and even saw a visual indicator (triangle mark on the fuel tank percentage full ) that seems to show where it will fill to - I managed to override it only once, dunno how

Like the remaining laps calc visible on the fuel map hud, this system seems to use average fuel usage per lap. It is definately taking more than fuel map alone into account, because I was experimenting with coasting and shortshifting in hour long races. On my last pit stop of the race, if i had been doing 10 laps per tank, and had only 5 laps to go, it would only fill to half. This threw me when I wasn't expecting it, because I had planned to fill up more, and use a faster fuel map. I didn't get a full tank and so I had to do my last laps replicating the same extreme fuel management I had been using since the last pit stop!

Does anyone know if the average for laps remaining is updated per pit stop or average for the whole race??

 

[Sven Jurgens]

These numbers are from the fuel consumption sticky at the beginning of the forum.

If you look you can see on fuel map 1 that both the Corvette and the FT1, the other car I included in the test both are rated at 126km for a tank of fuel.

The 991 on fuel map 1 only goes 117km per tank.

That would explain why the Corvette would take on fuel at a slower rate so that it would take the same amount of time to take on the fuel required to go the same distance as part of the BoP.

The 911 gets worse mileage so uses more fuel but the BoP will be allowing for a larger tank size to compensate the worse fuel mileage to be able to go the equal difference.

I have noticed that in the offline races that the pits will sometimes automatically send the vehicle out with less than a full tank if the car only needs x amount to finish the race by the pits calculations.

Perhaps that is why the Corvette was not filled completely. Perhaps switching the maps back and forth screw up the calculations the pit crew uses to choose a default amount to quit fueling at.

It should be driver controlled by default actually but apparently that is not always true.

I did some tests with the 991 and C7 to determine the fuel tank size, comparing the total fuel usage on the achievement page before and after.

First a test with the 991 on Tokyo with x4 fuel consumption, stock configuration, made it 33km at 27l
It seems you don't actually consume more fuel as that's only a quarter of the actual tank, see below.

I took it to Nurb 24h as that's a lot more fun to drive, it's limited to 2x fuel consumption now, twice as accurate for measuring but also takes 23 minutes per run. I raced at full pace yet on the conservative side not to wipe out (I have driven that track over a thousand times easily, very comfortable with it), TCS 2, Automatic transmission, no traffic. (1 AI behind, no boost) Press pause and exit as soon as the engine power cuts out after reaching 0%.

Results:

991 Stock Nurb 24h Fuel x2 67km 55l (110l tank) Corner at Steilstrecke lap 3
991 Bop Nurb 24h Fuel x2 64km 55l (110l tank) Near Kesselchen lap 3

C7 Stock Nurb 24h Fuel x2 68km 65l (130l tank) Just exiting Karussell lap 3
C7 Bop Nurb 24h Fuel x2 66km 65l (130l tank) Near Mutkurve lap 3

BOP has no effect on fuel you start with or tank size, it does affect your range by adjusting max power and weight.
I would need to test a car that runs at lower power and weight than stock to confirm that the range increases instead of decreases.

The 991 although not making it as far is more fuel efficient than the C7, 1.16 km/l vs 1.02 km/l

This seems to explain why the C7 doesn't make it on the second half of the run on Bathurst last Sunday.
I drive the 991 into the pits at the halfway point with 5% fuel left (5.5l), take in 100l (105.5l), tank is at 96% full, carry on the same.
I drive the C7 into the pits at the halfway point with 5% fuel left (6.5l), take in 100l (106.5l), tank is only 82% full, not going to make it.

 

[Robben]

I love that people care about testing this stuff.

I did note that someone mentioned that the fuel tank sizes did not appear to be the same. This could effect how many laps you could do - and technically have a sizable difference on wear/ fuel rate due to the weight of the extra fuel load.

Also, I have also noticed the game not filling the tank all the way at times. After a few tests, I am pretty sure I found the answer - and even saw a visual indicator (triangle mark on the fuel tank percentage full ) that seems to show where it will fill to - I managed to override it only once, dunno how

Like the remaining laps calc visible on the fuel map hud, this system seems to use average fuel usage per lap. It is definately taking more than fuel map alone into account, because I was experimenting with coasting and shortshifting in hour long races. On my last pit stop of the race, if i had been doing 10 laps per tank, and had only 5 laps to go, it would only fill to half. This threw me when I wasn't expecting it, because I had planned to fill up more, and use a faster fuel map. I didn't get a full tank and so I had to do my last laps replicating the same extreme fuel management I had been using since the last pit stop!

Does anyone know if the average for laps remaining is updated per pit stop or average for the whole race??

I have also been wondering this.... I presumed it would calculate based on whatever Map you had active when you entered the pit, but it seems inconsistent

 

[Macboyilija]

Nice to see you guys testing !

One question: does not changing tires in the pit make a huge difference ? I did not think of this but very logical of course. But sometimes you need a hint to think of this. Most of the times I can manage with the tyres so by driving carefully I would not need to change tyres and can benefit some ? seconds.

Great tip !

 

[Sven Jurgens]

The tire change is pretty fast, not changing can save maybe 3 seconds. You might gain a place or 2 in the pit but will have a harder time defending and overtaking. I always get fresh tires then overtake those again who did not.

By driving smoothly and staying off the kerbs you can make your tires last longer as well. I rather push the car at full power with fresh tires instead of going green. It's a game, I already hypermile in RL.