What the Prelude S is faster!?

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fookin

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Sorry the title is meant to read "What? The Prelude S is faster?" :(

Recently I've been holding time attack sessions on Special Stage 5 trying to perfect the setup for my red '98 Honda Integra Type R. Let me break it down to specifics and then tell everyone my fastest time. The car is at full spec, everything race modified.

Honda Integra Type R DC2R
Gearbox Final drive - 5.200 Auto set - 9

Spoon original suspension Spring front: 14 Spring rear: 12.7

Rebound: Front 10 Rear 10 Bound: Front 10 Rear 10

Camber front: 2.8 Camber rear: 1.8

Toe front: -1 Toe rear: -2

Stabilizers front: 10 Stabilizers rear: 10

Downforce Front: 30 Rear: 30

LSD Initial: 10 Accel: 40 Decel: 5

Power [No nitrous oxide or turbo just plain NA] 295 HP 198 Lb/foot

Tires Super soft R5 tires

Weight 950 kg

No traction aids, just a bruised right thumb and a severely bruised left thumb.

Fastest time so far 1:25:090

So last night I was goofing off and jumped in my full spec NA Mirage ZR which ran a 1:25:456! I was surprised as hell! The setup was good. Hardly any understeer at all compared with my DC2R. It was incredible!! But naturally the DC2R's power kept it in front.

So then i thought "how slow would a Prelude Type S be compared to my DC2R?"

Went over to the used car lot. Bought a decent one in grey. Dumped every single performance part in GT4 into it (Forgot the specs but it was all NA power). The car churned out 319 HP and 225 Lbs/foot of torque on a heavy 1125 kg (Disclaimer: Not sure whether that was the correct figure). It was using Super Soft R5 tires as well

Just for fun I load the replay of my DC2R and decided to do some setup work and then try chase myself down. After setting up the suspension and gearing I went for it.

5 laps later I beat the DC2R with a time of 1:24:416!!! I was stunned, 1 because the car behaved and handled so much better than the DC2R, while very nearly being 200kg heavier. And 2 because it shattered my DC2Rs fastest time.

I've been a long time reader of the forum. I try to do my own setups and what not but for the life of me, I can't find a solution to getting my DC2R to handle better.

According to my analyzer in corners the Prelude S is more stable and carries higher cornering speeds and exit corner speeds.

Whereas on straights my DC2R accelerates faster.

Is it just because the Prelude has a more rigid chassis than the DC2R, contributing to its faster cornering and exit speed? 'Cos in terms of power to weight the DC2R has it beaten.

Please help with comments and setup suggestions.
 
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What year DC2 were you running?

Take a look at the newer models; the '95 while lighter has much narrower tires and a lot less grip. '98 ITR or the 2001? ATR may provide more grip.
 
Rotary Junkie
What year DC2 were you running?

Take a look at the newer models; the '95 while lighter has much narrower tires and a lot less grip. '98 ITR or the 2001? ATR may provide more grip.
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The Acura is an '01. The newest Honda Integra Type R is a '99. Perhaps try that or the Acura and see if theres any difference. The '99 actually has a 6.2mile (on PAL at least) version, if that would be any help.

Strange situation though, you'd expect the Prelude, with its better power and torque to have the straights and the Integra having the corners. But no, here they seem to be reversed. :lol:

Also I noticed your setup is very stiff on the DC2R. Try softening the back end a bit and see if your handling improves. I know tuning for R5 tyres is different to S3 tyres so it's difficult to make improvements simply by looking at the setup.
 
As a way of seeing straight off the bat whether we're seeing an undetected slip problem here, turn the TCS on and drive as you normally would whilst looking to see if the TCS is activating a lot.

If it is, then the trouble lies in getting the power down to the road. I know your report states that the Integra is out-accelerating the Prelude but if it's losing drive-wheel grip in the corners then that will upset the handling too.
 
This is fookin i was told to change my nickname due resemblance to a swear word.

sukerkin,
There is definitely some slip occurring in corner. I can't accelerate through it like i can with the Prelude Type S and the Mirage Cyborg ZR. It's odd because on both the cars mentioned earlier the spring rates are 13 to 14kg front and 12 to 12.7kg rear - similar to that of the DC2R. Will definitely have a shot at testing out the TCS to measure the amount of slippage.

VTiRoj,
Will try softening the back end and test the results.

The odd thing is in real racing, the car with the stiffest chassis will have higher corner stability UNLESS the car has equal 50/50 weight distribution (MR-S, RX7 etc etc).

I suspect that if i can not resolve this issue that it could be that the track layout of Special Stage 5 is more suited to heavier cars. Long straight sections and fast speed corners.

Perhaps i will see different results on Tsukuba.

Thanks for the advice guys.

PS anyone else wanna give it a whirl and see what your results are? :)
 
I can't have a look at playing with the car in-game until tmorrow but just looking at the set-up in the OP gives me a few ideas as to what to try.

My opinion (and it is just an opinion :D) is that you are running everything far too stiff. The car only weighs 950kg after all. That maybe a lot parked on your foot but for a car is not that much. She's an FF too which means that she's front heavy.

Try softening the springs down to something like 8.0/7.0, the dampers to 3/4 8/9 and the Stabalisers to maybe 3/6. I'd drop the camber quite a bit too (perhaps 1.6/0.8) and change the toe to -2/0. If you can play with the Ride Height, try for at least 15-20mm of 'play' from the bottom of the scale.

Of course, without running her to check those out, the figures are pure pie-in-the-sky but the idea is to soften the car up enough to allow the suspension to work.
 
The main difference is that the DC2R has more power and more torque than the MIVEC Mirage. The Prelude you have made more powerful but the DC2R has better handling when it's set correctly. I suggest more along what sukerin has suggested but a little softer than his settings. But first you MUST buy the Fully Customisable Suspension. ;) Then a rough baseline for your settings are as follows.

Spring Rate: 7.0/6.4
Height: 100/100
Damper Bound: 2/3
Damper Rebound: 5/6
Camber: 2.2/1.4
Toe Angle: +1/-2
Stabilisers: 3/4

Adjust from there and if it's not 100% right, adjust towards sukerin's settings as the sweet spot is somewhere inbetween our settings.

Also, change your final ratio, it's WAY TOO LOW!! Go for around 4.800. ;)
 
Aye, mafia, I reckon you could be right there.

You have to recall that I generally tune heavy, powerful, FR cars, that have been pre-crippled by PD so-as not to make the rice-burner sponsors look bad :D. That colours my internal 'baseline' figures :lol:.
 
Don't worry, I know about yours and Soprano's efforts. ;)

I also forgot in the previous post that the acceleration and initial LSD is set WAY too strong for the car. Change settings of LSD to around 7/11/9. That 40 on the acceleration is what's mainly killing the car.
 
I also concur with your thoughts on the LSD. I didn't want to say too much tho' until I got a chance to play with the car and see how 'theory' matched up with track time experience (given how my signature rather gives the game away with regard to my intrinsic opinons :D)
 
And vice versa with me on my passion for FF's. ;) I issue fatwa's for haters of the FF (check GT4 forum itself. :lol:) and I'm the only one now that's trying to find all the limits that PD had placed on FF cars in GT4. :ouch:

Anyway, let's not clog up the thread with chatter to eachother. :lol:👍
 
Hi guys great suggestions will get to it after F1 today :D

In defense of my final drive I've actually tuned all the gears with that final drive quite happy with the results. As for the other mods will give it a shot.

Thanks :)
 
hi guys, tried the quoted settings below and tried the new setup for the LSD which was suggested but the car turned in a best time of only 1:25:896. The inside wheel spins a lot of corner exit in 3rd gear, think i am losing time there as well. Will start to fine tune for here and see whats comes of it.
:)

mafia_boy
The main difference is that the DC2R has more power and more torque than the MIVEC Mirage. The Prelude you have made more powerful but the DC2R has better handling when it's set correctly. I suggest more along what sukerin has suggested but a little softer than his settings. But first you MUST buy the Fully Customisable Suspension. ;) Then a rough baseline for your settings are as follows.

Spring Rate: 7.0/6.4
Height: 100/100
Damper Bound: 2/3
Damper Rebound: 5/6
Camber: 2.2/1.4
Toe Angle: +1/-2
Stabilisers: 3/4

Adjust from there and if it's not 100% right, adjust towards sukerin's settings as the sweet spot is somewhere inbetween our settings.

Also, change your final ratio, it's WAY TOO LOW!! Go for around 4.800. ;)
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With the LSD, turn accel up slowly until the inside front stops lighting up.

I like something like 7-8 initial, 25-35 accel, and 5-10 decel on FFs.
 
Can't manage it fellas. Tried and tried again no matter what the setup the Prelude (replay of my fastest lap in it) just pulled out of corners faster and had better stability overall. Even through the technical sections.

I re-did the analysis of my fastest lap in the DC2R and Prelude S and the differences are marginal until you get to middle of each corner where the Prelude has a good 5km/h advantage in some places.

On the straights the top end of 5th gear the Prelude is faster but the top end of 6th gear is at parity for both cars.

Guess i'll just move on and try out more FF cars for ****s and giggles ;). Thanks for the help guys.

PS decided to use a DC5R to take on the Prelude S and then followed by the monster Trial Celica GTS heh.
 
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You'll find the DC5R a complete monster at SSR5. I remember in a little "FWD Honda's only" event I made on another forum, the DC5R was king of the laptimes. This was turbocharged with R5's and a wing though.
 
If you have a DC5R now, try Rotary Junkie's Integra tune inside RRV, it was a real treat when we were doing our Tuner Cup Touge Challenge. ;)
 
I always said that DC5R of RJ's was too oversteery for it's own good. But since John is working with R5s, I'd say it might just work out great!

Shame TCv3 never got finished... me and N4HS were pretty much tied for the RWD lead.
 
mafia_boy
*Arnie Voice* STOP WHINING!! :P
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Just because your Silvia got toasted by the midships. :sly:

Enough off-topic from us. :P


I'll get my DC5R Turbo setup in here and see if it helps out. Even if it was built for a turbo'd car it should still be very usable on a N/A. 👍
 
VTiRoj
Just because your Silvia got toasted by the midships. :sly:
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Pffft. WHATEVER!! :lol: That Silvia pulls 7.30's now around the 'ring (I'm a bit more competent as a driver around there now!! :sly: ) with only 268hp. ;) The new ones I'm building are taking it a little bit further ( S13's '88 & '91 Q's & one S15 S Spec).
 
Apart from the LSD which I tweaked about 10 mins ago, this is the setup I used to push a 444bhp DC5R into the 1'22s at SSR5 over 2 years ago.

Brake balance: 5/6

Original suspension
Spring rate: 11.2/8.0
Ride height: 72/72
Damper: 10/8
Camber angle: 1.0/3.5
Toe: -2/2
Stabiliser: 7/7

Transmission
1st: 2.344
2nd: 1.561
3rd: 1.199
4th: 0.954
5th: 0.779
6th: 0.649
Final: 4.666
Autoset: 20

Downforce: 30/15

FC LSD: 60/60/10

Now compare it to my setups now and you'll find how less insane I became. :lol:👍
 
Wow lots of response, thanks for keeping this thread going :D.

Well, last night bought the DC5R and completely blitzed the Prelude's time with something in the range of 1:23:500. Something like that. I can get the figures when i get home from work today.

Again i kept it NA (Call it silly but since i own a DC2 SI - GSR for American viewers - in real life, i've always kept my FF Hondas NA.)

I gotta say the DC5R was an absolute monster, it pretty tore up the track and was so easily controllable. Right out of the box without tuning and stock settings from the full race mods (Spoon suspension, brakes, NA stage 3, weight reduction 3 etc etc) it destroyed the Prelude Type S replay. I tuned the final drive, 5th gear and 6th gear synchro and it went even faster.

All i can say is i can't wait to tackle the car again tonight. I know the Trial Celica has more power but i am confident it can beat the higher output NA Celica ;).
 

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