What Will The Chevy HHR Compete With?

[skip0110]

It is Cobalt-sized, has only FWD I4 Ecotec drivetrains but big, chunky SUV styling. With that high roof it's not going to even manage sporting pretentions. Without availible AWD, CR-V and RAV4 look much better as all-weather wagons.

Perhaps the PT Cruiser? But the PT has a availible turbo engine, and is going to be replaced soon after 2006 on a next-gen Mitubishi Lancer platform used under the Dodge Caliber (or whatever it will be named when it enters production). The Caliber platform offers several design features that will make it stand out in the compact car market: a Honda-supplied CVT, possible AWD, and a expected 2.4 Turbo motor. What makes the HHR special besides it's "polarizing" styling?

I welcome another flop to the GM family. It can make freinds with the SSRs sitting on dealer lots.

 

[MrktMkr1986]

Yes, I do believe it was meant to compete with the PT Cruiser. However, GM has been making a lot of mistakes lately (reflected in stock price).

In fact, my avatar was modeled after GM's stock price history.

 

[skip0110]

In fact, my avatar was modeled after GM's stock price history.

GM needs to understand that flash styling on a mediocre car is not going to bring sales, much less a solid reputation.

 

[MrktMkr1986]

GM needs to understand that flash styling on a mediocre car is not going to bring sales, much less a solid reputation.

Exactly. They are need of a serious restructuring.

 

[Joey D]

I can't complain about GM for obivious reasons, but I really dislike the HHR. In fact we had one in today and even my boss thought it was crap. I'll ask him if I can drive it around the proving grounds tomarrow since a ton of people are taking tomarrow off, maybe it can be my reward for working . But I doubt it will be thrilling.

 

[TwinTurboJay]

Just give Lingenfelter 10 minutes alone with that thing...she'll sing a whole new tune !

 

[Joey D]

Actually GM comission So Cal to build one that will do 200+ mph. It will be a 1200hp Ecotec and be pretty much the same thing as the Cobalt they did. I'm not sure if a car magazine has said anything about it, but that's what my boss just told me.

 

[Ev0]

But damn near anything with a 1200hp 4 banger will do 200+mph, unless of course the vehicle weighs as much as a cargo ship, or has the world's worst aerodynamics. Congratualtions GM, you're setting out to prove absolutely nothing!

The street model of it is going to sell about as well as the Aztek, if not worse. Combine hideous styling with an aenemic engine, give it dimensions similar to that of a stool to kill handling, and you've got a winner! But then again, the above description perfectly fits the Scion xB, so if GM's marketing can work wonders, they could have a winner (not bloddy likely).

 

[Joey D]

Well its more of a program to promote the Ecotech engine then anything. But still So Cal is going to rework the design to make theirs look better. I bet it will sell well, the gas mileage is good, lot of interior room, etc. I never thought the PT would take off the way it did and that surprised me.

 

[pimp racer]

Scion XB? PT cruiser? Just MAYBE the Aveo? Thats all I can think of rite now. I think its bad. 👍

 

[Driftster]

I think they let someone design this thing that might have been an apprentice of Chris Bangel...

 

[skip0110]

Scion XB? PT cruiser? Just MAYBE the Aveo? Thats all I can think of rite now. I think its bad. 👍

If Chevy is releasing vehicles that are designed to comete with models already in their lineup, thats a big mistake.

 

[pimp racer]

If Chevy is releasing vehicles that are designed to comete with models already in their lineup, thats a big mistake.

Shoot tell me about it. Maybe not the Aveo then? Since the Aveo is much cheaper. But I still stick with the XB and teh PT.

 

[eliseracer]

If Chevy is releasing vehicles that are designed to comete with models already in their lineup, thats a big mistake.

That seems to be what the're doing. Nobody has told me a straight answer on why GM released so many mid-sized sedans in the past 2 years, and knocked off so few.

 

[Joey D]

That seems to be what the're doing. Nobody has told me a straight answer on why GM released so many mid-sized sedans in the past 2 years, and knocked off so few.

Ok here is the deal, to the best that I know. GM a few years back did research on who buys their cars and they found that middle aged women didn't for some reason. So they thought what would appeal to them and for some reason or another mid-sized sedans came to mind. Also that is why you hear that Led Zepplin song on every friggen Caddy commerical, they thought it would bring in women buyers. How ever GM sees now they royaly f'ed them selves because someone did bad research. Last summer Jim Queen's head was on the chopping block if I remember correctly.

This is what people around the office have told me at least.

 

[Ev0]

If Chevy is releasing vehicles that are designed to comete with models already in their lineup, thats a big mistake.

That's what GM is pretty much doing with all their brands. Just look at the Saturn Relay, the Chevrolet Uplander, the Buick Teraza, and the Pontiac Montana SV6. They are all pretty much the exact same vehicle with just a different grille and badge. Ditto for Pontiac Wave and Chevy Aveo. I have no idea why they do this; all it does is confuse everyone.

 

[Firebird]

That's what GM is pretty much doing with all their brands. Just look at the Saturn Relay, the Chevrolet Uplander, the Buick Teraza, and the Pontiac Montana SV6. They are all pretty much the exact same vehicle with just a different grille and badge. Ditto for Pontiac Wave and Chevy Aveo. I have no idea why they do this; all it does is confuse everyone.

Montana SV6, Uplander and RELAY exist so that Chevrolet/Cadillac, Pontiac/Buick/GMC and Saturn/Saab dealers have a minivan to sell.

Wave and Aveo exist so that Chevrolet/Cadillac and Pontiac/Buick/GMC dealers each have a subcompact to sell.

Pursuit, Cobalt and ION exist so that Chevrolet/Cadillac, Pontiac/Buick/GMC and Saturn/Saab dealers each have a compact to sell.

G6, Malibu, 9-3 and L-300 exist so that Chevrolet/Cadillac and Pontiac/Buick/GMC dealers each have a midsize to sell.

Grand Prix and Impala exist so that Chevrolet/Cadillac and Pontiac/Buick/GMC dealers each have a larger midsize to sell.

Silverado and Sierra exist so that Chevrolet/Cadillac and Pontiac/Buick/GMC dealers each have a fullsize pickup truck to sell.

Colorado and Canyon exist so that Chevrolet/Cadillac and Pontiac/Buick/GMC dealers each have a compact pickup truck to sell.

Tahoe and Yukon exist so that Chevrolet/Cadillac and Pontiac/Buick/GMC dealers each have a fullsize SUV to sell.

TrailBlazer and Envoy exist so that Chevrolet/Cadillac and Pontiac/Buick/GMC dealers each have a midsize SUV to sell.

Buicks and GMCs are supposed to be more "upscale" than Chevrolets to offset the fact that Pontiac/Buick/GMC dealers don't sell Cadillacs. Oldsmobiles were more "upscale" than Chevrolets and less "upscale" than Buicks in order to make up for the fact that Cadillacs didn't sell as well as Buicks.

 

[Delirious]

hurrah for GM for at least keeping the corvette around and making one bad mofo? (the new Z06 comin out)

 

[Ev0]

Montana SV6, Uplander and RELAY exist so that Chevrolet/Cadillac, Pontiac/Buick/GMC and Saturn/Saab dealers have a minivan to sell.

Wave and Aveo exist so that Chevrolet/Cadillac and Pontiac/Buick/GMC dealers each have a subcompact to sell.

Pursuit, Cobalt and ION exist so that Chevrolet/Cadillac, Pontiac/Buick/GMC and Saturn/Saab dealers each have a compact to sell.

G6, Malibu, 9-3 and L-300 exist so that Chevrolet/Cadillac and Pontiac/Buick/GMC dealers each have a midsize to sell.

Grand Prix and Impala exist so that Chevrolet/Cadillac and Pontiac/Buick/GMC dealers each have a larger midsize to sell.

Silverado and Sierra exist so that Chevrolet/Cadillac and Pontiac/Buick/GMC dealers each have a fullsize pickup truck to sell.

Colorado and Canyon exist so that Chevrolet/Cadillac and Pontiac/Buick/GMC dealers each have a compact pickup truck to sell.

Tahoe and Yukon exist so that Chevrolet/Cadillac and Pontiac/Buick/GMC dealers each have a fullsize SUV to sell.

TrailBlazer and Envoy exist so that Chevrolet/Cadillac and Pontiac/Buick/GMC dealers each have a midsize SUV to sell.

Buicks and GMCs are supposed to be more "upscale" than Chevrolets to offset the fact that Pontiac/Buick/GMC dealers don't sell Cadillacs. Oldsmobiles were more "upscale" than Chevrolets and less "upscale" than Buicks in order to make up for the fact that Cadillacs didn't sell as well as Buicks.

They go to all this trouble, yet it would probably be much more efficient to just dismantle the Pontiac, Buick, and GMC brands, and just go with Chevy, Saturn, and Cadillac. That way, they still have all three sectors of the market covered (Entry level, mid range, and luxury)without causing confusion among consumers. And of course, there are other benefits too.

 

[Duke]

I welcome another flop to the GM family. It can make freinds with the SSRs sitting on dealer lots.

On "dealer's row" in my town the Ford dealer across the street from the Chevy dealer always makes it a point to have a used SSR prominently displayed on their spin rack.

 

[1X83Z]

Montana SV6, Uplander and RELAY exist so that Chevrolet/Cadillac, Pontiac/Buick/GMC and Saturn/Saab dealers have a minivan to sell.

As a devoted minivan fan I should say this:

1. the new minivans are six to eight years behind competition. The first minivans with standard side airbags were the 1998 Chevrolet Venture, 1998 Oldsmobile Silhouette, and 1998 Pontiac Trans Sport. Now they're optional, and curtain side airbags aren't even offered. Unbelievably, GM minivans and Kia are the only ones not to offer curtain airbags. It's been nearly a decade and they're optional and unimproved. Regarding other features, these vans have absolutely nothing to offer except a standard DVD player.

2. for the first time in my life I'm having trouble telling vehicles apart on the street. I can tell apart the Chevrolet because of its crossbar grille, but the others look identical to me, despite the different grilles. Only the front quarter seems to change between models - the rest is exactly the same.

I'm on the verge of buying my first minivan, a purchase I've always wanted to make, and will not be choosing GM. These are, in my view, the worst minivans ever to debut (depending on whether you consider the Mitsubishi Expo and Eagle Summit Wagon minivans - I don't).

Oh, and I hate the HHR too.

 

[Firebird]

As a devoted minivan fan I should say this:

1. the new minivans are six to eight years behind competition. The first minivans with standard side airbags were the 1998 Chevrolet Venture, 1998 Oldsmobile Silhouette, and 1998 Pontiac Trans Sport. Now they're optional, and curtain side airbags aren't even offered. Unbelievably, GM minivans and Kia are the only ones not to offer curtain airbags. It's been nearly a decade and they're optional and unimproved. Regarding other features, these vans have absolutely nothing to offer except a standard DVD player.

The Freestar is a pretty shameless rehash of its predecessor too, but at least Uplander/Montana SV6/Terraza/RELAY are moving off the lots faster than any other minivan save the perpetual sales leaders from Chrysler. (at least, they're moving pretty fast here; the fact that you can get lower-priced short-wheelbase versions of the Chevy and Pontiac here probably has a lot to do with it)

On a related note, just how long have you been a safety weenie? If I remember correctly you even had airbags retrofitted into your Typhoon...

 

[1X83Z]

The Freestar is a pretty shameless rehash of its predecessor too, but at least Uplander/Montana SV6/Terraza/RELAY are moving off the lots faster than any other minivan save the perpetual sales leaders from Chrysler. (at least, they're moving pretty fast here; the fact that you can get lower-priced short-wheelbase versions of the Chevy and Pontiac here probably has a lot to do with it)

Down here they've been on sale four or five months and I've seen a total of four. Sales are pitiful. Sales goals were low though - as they should've been, considering the vehicles are piss. Of course in the US, Japanese minivans now run the show, and even though Chrysler still outsells everyone else, the Odyssey and Sienna are now just as common as the Caravan and Town & Country.

On a related note, just how long have you been a safety weenie? If I remember correctly you even had airbags retrofitted into your Typhoon...

New father.

 

[Firebird]

Down here they've been on sale four or five months and I've seen a total of four. Sales are pitiful. Sales goals were low though - as they should've been, considering the vehicles are piss. Of course in the US, Japanese minivans now run the show, and even though Chrysler still outsells everyone else, the Odyssey and Sienna are now just as common as the Caravan and Town & Country.

Total of four? I've seen more than four in a span of a few minutes.


Sienna's popular down there? I've seen maybe three or four in the last year or so. I saw my third Quest yesterday. I can't even remember seeing a front-drive Mazda MPV.

If I were to give minivan sales a sort of scale it would look like this:

------ >Caravan/T&C
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
--------> GM vans
-
-
-
-
-
--------> Odyssey
-
-
--------> Freestar
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-------> Everything else

New father.

👍




I could go on a rant about how obsessed today's parents are about safety, germs, blah blah blah... but I'll be nice and spare you...

Do your kid and yourself a favour though: don't totally weenie-out and buy a minivan.

 

[1X83Z]

Total of four? I've seen more than four in a span of a few minutes.

I still haven't seen a Buick or Saturn. Actually I'm not totally sure - a few weeks after they were released one drove by my office window and I didn't catch the brand. I think it was a Chevrolet, but it could've been any of the four really.

No - they pretty much don't exist down here.

Sienna's popular down there? I've seen maybe three or four in the last year or so. I saw my third Quest yesterday. I can't even remember seeing a front-drive Mazda MPV.

MPVs are rare everywhere. Quests aren't meeting sales expectations for our region or nationally (expectations were too high anyway - have you SEEN the thing?). Most of my neighbors have Siennas; they're just about everywhere. I tend to recommend against them because I hate their stupid packages - you can spend thousands for one single option because of their damn packages. I hate cars like that (Mazda 6). Honda Odyssey is also very common.

If I were to give minivan sales a sort of scale it would look like this:

Is that correct or based on sight? I imagine Freestar is primarily fleet sales? (here it's nearly all fleet sales)

I could go on a rant about how obsessed today's parents are about safety, germs, blah blah blah... but I'll be nice and spare you...

Do your kid and yourself a favour though: don't totally weenie-out and buy a minivan.

We already got the S6, but my wife wants me to have a four-door car too. I considered E55 and RS6 but their expense was deemed too great so I've decided just to supplement the CLK with something else. I didn't really want an SUV (though I'm considering new Range Rover) so I figured why not AWD minivan? I've always loved the Chryslers and this seems like a perfect time to get one, '03 being the last year of AWD and only year with a sunroof, not to mention the depreciation that's set in (it's $42k new!). I'm still totally unsure of my next auto move but I'm very pro-Town & Country at this point.

I'm not germ conscious - I want our new kid to move in to a shack about a quarter mile from our house (within the next few days) with no running water or heat because I want him to learn about the real world. I finally compromised with my wife and agreed to allow him to have a candle in the shack and possibly a lock on the door to keep wild animals out, but if he wants heat he'll have to earn his keep.

 

[Firebird]

I still haven't seen a Buick or Saturn. Actually I'm not totally sure - a few weeks after they were released one drove by my office window and I didn't catch the brand. I think it was a Chevrolet, but it could've been any of the four really.

The Saturn and Buick are rare (I've seen one and two, respectively). I'd like to know why the Buick exists at all, more than anything.

Quests aren't meeting sales expectations for our region or nationally (expectations were too high anyway - have you SEEN the thing?).

I've BEEN in the thing... I think I could have lived with the cheapo seats that look and felt like they came out of a 1970s public transit bus, and the oddball exterior, but the god-awful ergonomics of the entire front portion of the cabin completely turned me off. I didn't learn until afterwards that they do in fact have a CD player... half a foot under the top of the "column" occupying the centre of the dash...

Is that correct or based on sight? I imagine Freestar is primarily fleet sales? (here it's nearly all fleet sales)

By sight, but as far as I know its fairly representative of the actual sales numbers too. And yes, Freestars mainly go to fleets.

I'm not germ conscious - I want our new kid to move in to a shack about a quarter mile from our house (within the next few days) with no running water or heat because I want him to learn about the real world. I finally compromised with my wife and agreed to allow him to have a candle in the shack and possibly a lock on the door to keep wild animals out, but if he wants heat he'll have to earn his keep.

At the very least turn him into a gearhead.

 

[Ev0]

In Toronto, Uplanders and SV6 Montanas are spreading like the plague. Doug, you say you've seen a total of four of these pieces of crap since they went on sale; I've seen that many in five minutes walking down a major street. Although I do have yet to see the Buick, and the Saturn Relay is rare (The only one I see regularly is a dealer shuttle). But then again, this is a city where I'm starting to see multiple Daewoos on a daily basis. Yes, Daewoos.

And I'll guess the only thing keeping you from buying an Odyssey is the lack of AWD.

 

[Sniffs]

GM, and now Ford, have a bad case of "badge engineering", the reason for the death of Plymouth in 98. throw in the fact that US automakers have trucks on the brain yet (i call 1995-2004 "the SUV is king") the Japanese have takeon over the car slot completely, Germany does the handling and performance, and that leaves the US with nothing but the truck group. at least that's ONE thing that ford does well. I have a feeling that the US automakers might as well surrender, and drop thought of cars completely, concentrating on nothing but trucks, which is where all our Engineer's minds seem to be lately. let the Japanese have the car market. no-one drives a car in the US anyways...they're afraidf of getting hurt in a colission...as the safety advocates keep pointing out.

what I can tell, so far, is that the American brain has permenently shifted to "utility" mode...vehicles are something to be used and thrown out when their worn (tho most everyone here disproves that theory handily ). I should know, I get the ones that they throw away

someone ought to kick GM in the slats...Olds had finally found its niche, and they dumped it. drop Buick, we don't need two ultra luxury brands (tho caddy is now posed to become more beamer/benz like).

 

[Joey D]

Actually In GM there was a hostile take over of the truck division by the car division, hence why I got moved down to Warren to the car group instead of the truck group were I worked at before. So no GM doesn't have truck on the brain, they have cars. I mean they let Isuzu engineers make that monstrosity of the Colorado, not to mention the thousands of problem they had.

GM makes good cars, it's just people who don't open there eyes can't see that. Are they the best? No there are many cars better then GM ones, but the don't suck at all. I think Pontiac has a nice line up and Saturn's are great small cars not that the designers uninserted their head from their ass.

no-one drives a car in the US anyways...they're afraidf of getting hurt in a colission...as the safety advocates keep pointing out.

Well lets see I can look out the window in my office and see thousands of cars. Lots of people drive cars and mini vans. Sure people have SUV's because well in Michigan it's easier to drive through snow with it.

let the Japanese have the car market

First off saying Japanese is racist. Second off car makers depend on one another. Look Nissian is a French company, Chysler has partnership with Mitsu, GM buys Honda engines and has partnered with Toyota, GM also owns part of Subaru, Ford owns part of Mazda. If you got rid of American cars the world economy would go to hell.

someone ought to kick GM in the slats...Olds had finally found its niche, and they dumped it. drop Buick, we don't need two ultra luxury brands (tho caddy is now posed to become more beamer/benz like).

Uhh Oldsmobile sales had been falling for years, the only good thing outta them in the past god knows how many years was the Aurura V8. They were a basic car company that sold most of their cars to senior citizens.

If you can have more of your brands in the market, chances are you will make more money. Simple as that. I could say that Toyota doesn't need Lexus and it would be the same thing.

And Caddilac is the saving grace to GM right now, I've met some of the designers and they are really trying to appeal to the younger crowd, so far it's working. I would take a Caddy over a BMW any day.

 

[Ev0]

Besides, GM cars are selling pretty well. The Cavalier and the Sunfire are among the best selling cars in Canada (despite the fact that the Civic, Corolla, and Mazda 3 are superior small cars). American sedans aren't selling bad either; the Chevy Impala is getting strong sales and it isn't that bad of a car. But I do agree, the Japanese cars are definitley superior to their American counterparts. But, they are still selling fairly well, because of their brand names, and because there are lots of people who are strongly opposed to imports (Go to any small town a few hours away from a major city and see how many Japanese cars you spot, and you'll see what I mean). So really, the big 3 have no reason to stop selling their cars.

And also, I have to agree with Blazin, Cadillac is GM's only really competitive brand at the moment (Unless you want to count Corvette as a separate brand). They really are taking the fight straight to the Europeans (and the Japanese luxury brands for that matter) with the CTS and STS. Although they still have to catch up with interior quality, the cars themselves are by all accounts excellent sport sedans. I still wouldn't know if I'd want to take a CTS over a 3 Series or a G35, but it's definitley worth a very good look. And I'd take a CTS-V over an M3 right now. It's cheaper, it has more horsepower, and it's got great handling. Excellent car.