What Will The Chevy HHR Compete With?

[1X83Z]

The Saturn and Buick are rare (I've seen one and two, respectively). I'd like to know why the Buick exists at all, more than anything.

Same - they already have a minivan.

I've BEEN in the thing... I think I could have lived with the cheapo seats that look and felt like they came out of a 1970s public transit bus, and the oddball exterior, but the god-awful ergonomics of the entire front portion of the cabin completely turned me off. I didn't learn until afterwards that they do in fact have a CD player... half a foot under the top of the "column" occupying the centre of the dash...

The Quest is one of very few vehicles that looks great on paper but really isn't. It seems competitive but there's so many deficits in the interior and driving experience that they outweigh any pluses in standard features and engine size.

By sight, but as far as I know its fairly representative of the actual sales numbers too. And yes, Freestars mainly go to fleets.

I've seen one full-spec Mercury Monterey. I hate to say it, but I'd be content to own any full-spec Mercury right now. The nicest models have great styling and great standard features - the Mariner provokes desire deep within me. Maybe it should be our family car?

At the very least turn him into a gearhead.

I'll give him a Blue Book while he's in the shack.

And I'll guess the only thing keeping you from buying an Odyssey is the lack of AWD.

Indeed - I could get an Odyssey, but then we'd need yet another car for winters. I'd rather just combine a winter family car and a family car into one car. By the way, I apologize to you and all the rest of the Canadian members for having to see the new GM minivans on a daily basis.

 

[eliseracer]

But then again, this is a city where I'm starting to see multiple Daewoos on a daily basis. Yes, Daewoos.

Glad somebody else is noticing this... I thought that every Daewoo owner in Montreal came out of a 3 year sleep and went out to drive the other day.

 

[Delirious]

at least chevrolet trucks (not the colorado...ugh) are at least half-way decent

 

[Joey D]

at least chevrolet trucks (not the colorado...ugh) are at least half-way decent

Are you kidding me? The Silverado looks like hell, the designer think cat eyes on a truck look good for some reason. The next generation one, the GMT 900 doesn't look much better either. GM was trying to devolpe a unibody truck for a while but they scraped the program after they realized it was the worst idea ever, just like the Honda Ridgeline.

The Seirra looks better, in fact GMC's are better then Chevy's due to a heavier duty suspension and brake system. Not to mention the stylin doesn't suck.

If you want a good truck, you go out an buy the F-150, and this is coming from a guy who is employed by GM.

 

[Ev0]

If you want a good truck, you go out an buy the F-150, and this is coming from a guy who is employed by GM.

Agreed. There's a reason it's been the best selling truck in the US since around the time the Pilgrims landed at Plymouth rock. The new F-150 was recently reviewed in one of the UK car mags (sorry, can't remember which one), and even they liked it! They loved the interior, praised the engine, and just felt way more refined than they expected.

 

[Sniffs]

figures...blazin's an office geek for GM one of my relatives acutally works in one of the production plants, so I got wind of the SSR before most of the pics were released.

I don't like the way ford has turned all it's trucks into cookie cutters again. all these hard edges are driving me nuts, but got some reason, they look good on GM products...just drop a hint to the guys in the "art and color department" to get rid of the chrome bar in the middle. most people hate that.

at least olds (and, as far as I'm concerned, caprice and it's clones) went out looking good. somebody got the "ultimate Jellybean" styling right, and it looked good. I want something from Olds from the ninties on up...it's a collector's peice.

personally, I've been fooling around with car concepts for about 10 years. my biggest, silliest Idea generally runs "what if extinct name survived into such an era?" for example, if ford had been more subtle on the styling with the Edsel, or if Studebaker hadn't given up the ghost and not cashed in on the Muscle car Era, if AMC had gone with the flow (or if Renault at the time had as well)...unfortunately, I can't draw in the concept sketch style to bring one of my latest Ideas to life. and I'm a mechanical draftsman for a living!

 

[skip0110]

Are you kidding me? The Silverado looks like hell, the designer think cat eyes on a truck look good for some reason. The next generation one, the GMT 900 doesn't look much better either. GM was trying to devolpe a unibody truck for a while but they scraped the program after they realized it was the worst idea ever, just like the Honda Ridgeline.

Is your only reason for hating the GM trucks their appearance (an eminently subjective reason)? The engines, while not top-of-the class, are excellent and very relaible. The interiors could use a freshening but the platform is solid.

 

[Joey D]

Is your only reason for hating the GM trucks their appearance (an eminently subjective reason)? The engines, while not top-of-the class, are excellent and very relaible. The interiors could use a freshening but the platform is solid.

There platfrom is very old and so are the engines. I've never really cared for GM trucks. They are very average compared to most of the trucks on market and they will go down hill now that the car group has taken over them. I promise that they will fade off quickly.

figures...blazin's an office geek for GM one of my relatives acutally works in one of the production plants, so I got wind of the SSR before most of the pics were released.

That says something since I can hate some of the crap my company produces.

I don't like the way ford has turned all it's trucks into cookie cutters again. all these hard edges are driving me nuts, but got some reason, they look good on GM products...just drop a hint to the guys in the "art and color department" to get rid of the chrome bar in the middle. most people hate that

All trucks from all manufactures are cookie cutters. Toyota, Dodge, etc. they all do it because think about it, say you wanted a Ram and like the looks but couldn't afford it? Well you can go with the cheaper Dakota.

Doesn't that say something about me that I can hate some of the crap the company I work for puts out?

 

[1X83Z]

Nope - I hate the Quest.

GM full-size truck and SUV interiors are horrible. Escalade vs. Navigator is the easiest competition ever if you go solely by interior. Ick.

 

[Sniffs]

well, then, I suggest you get Interior designers in to go ahead and redoo cars, people.

what, exactly does the PUBLIC want in a vehice. that seems to be what maufacturers don't get anymore.

 

[Joey D]

What the public wants? Well pretty much enough horsepower, room for 5, and fuel economy. That's why the Camry sells so well in my opinion.

GM just sucks at engineering interiors, I hate the one on my Blazer. It's not comfotable what so ever, plus the seats are wearing out pretty fast. Not to mention the window sill is slightly to high so its un comfortable to put my arm out of it, which is Michigan thing I guess.

Every GM truck, except the Denali lines have had pretty uncomfortable interiors, well save for the Envoy...maybe.

But then again I'm a short guy so I feel uncomfortable in these things. But I don't like to little of a car, I don't fit right in them either. Companies need to make more adjustable ineteriors to fit all body shapes and sizes.

But for trucks, I like the F-150 interior quite a bit and I was impressed with the Tundra's interior as well.

Toyota almost has the truck combo down pat, they just need to offer more of a selection in cab and bed configurations, I would call the Tundra the second best full sized truck behind the Ford. Third would be the GM's, and fourth would be the Dodges. I've never liked the Nissan trucks since they can't get it down, and Honda just makes a tall car with a bed.

 

[1X83Z]

It's not GM's fault the interiors on the current full-sizers suck. They've just been around a while. When the Tahoe debuted in 1995, I distinctly recall loving the interior. And it's tough to compare the c. 1999 Silverado to the c. 2004 F-150. From what I hear, GM's all new in CY 2007, which is only two and half years away. I'm sure they'll look better then.

 

[Joey D]

Ya I know what you mean, GM doesn't like to update models all that much. But don't be to certian on the next generation of truck, I see them every day and they aren't anything special. In fact I rather dislike them, but look for a debute at the NAIAS next year.

 

[1X83Z]

I'm sure the next full-size pickup from GM is great - I'm also excited to see the next Escalade / Tahoe / Yukon / Suburban / Yukon XL. And I hope some day the minivans get that 3.6L V6 they're begging for.

I saw a Saturn Relay today. It told me it wanted the 3.6 V6. Yep

 

[VIPFREAK]

In fact, my avatar was modeled after GM's stock price history.

No doubt about that!!!

 

[PS]

Agreed. There's a reason it's been the best selling truck in the US since around the time the Pilgrims landed at Plymouth rock. The new F-150 was recently reviewed in one of the UK car mags (sorry, can't remember which one), and even they liked it! They loved the interior, praised the engine, and just felt way more refined than they expected.

Triton V8, baby! The F-150 has been the best selling pickup truck in the world for the past like, what, 15-20 years? Ford has done a great job with the truck and are keeping it sheilded from the whole retro craze.

I am not a truck fan. I never have been, and likely never will be. But when I saw the 2005 F150, I just glared. I literally stopped in my tracks, and stared at a fully loaded truck at a stoplight. That's something I rarely do. Ford has managed to make its' 2nd lowest capacity/purpose/whatever truck to look incredibly badass and powerfull, and coupled with the Triton and quite a nice tan leather interior, I quite like it.

As do I the Nissan Quest. I don't know what it is about me, but I'm just drawn to that particular minivan. It has something like 5 roof "skyviews" or windows, and it has the best ass I've ever seen.

Unfortunately for Nissan and Infiniti I'm starting to see a lack of difference between the two brands in terms of styling. The G35 in particular just screams Nissan, whereas the Q45 and M45 still have the upscale luxury car look. But don't get me wrong, I love the G35 and its' styling, and even Jordan has one.

But what about GM?

What will the HHR compete with? Actually, I've asked myself that question with quite a few GM products. . .especially the SSR. The people who buy that thing don't buy it for the bed, and it only (comfortably) holds 2 people...and it's not that great of a track car, I just didn't understand it.

And now the HHR. I don't even know what it is. It said "size of a cobalt"??! That's got to be the ultimate in mini SUV. If only the S and the U and the V didn't have to come hand-in-hand.

I'm still perplexed by this thing, and I hope it flops. I'm sure it will, and even though I'd like to see it get dragged through hell and back, I also don't want to have the liberty (or misfortune) of seeing it on the street. Sacrifices must be made, so I hope it dies quickly.

And as a Canadian, yes, I do see a lot of GM crap floating around here, but Sienna's and Caravans are what I see the most of.

 

[Joey D]

Basically the HHR is a PT Cruiser rip off, its a tall hatch back. What will it compete with? My boss seems to think things like the Scion, because it's equally as ugly and possibly the Element. He was guessing though. Most people in my office at GM wonder what the hell on that thing.

But if you look at the Dodge Nitro concept it looks pretty close.

 

[PS]

Basically the HHR is a PT Cruiser rip off, its a tall hatch back. What will it compete with? My boss seems to think things like the Scion, because it's equally as ugly and possibly the Element. He was guessing though. Most people in my office at GM wonder what the hell on that thing.

But if you look at the Dodge Nitro concept it looks pretty close.

Ah, but following the trend of most Chrysler concepts, we're not likely to see the nitro come into production.

And the scion xB, while very funky looking, is much better that the HHR. Just the fact alone it's made by Toyota (Scion) places it higher up on the list; the build quality comparisons will be far in Toyota's favour and the HHR will just end up being another gas guzzling American ripoff stealing from another company's trademark.

Heck, even look at the beetle. As soon as that started the retro trend everyone has been doing , and -gasp- it's the American companies cashing in on it.

At least Dodge's cars can manage to look like tanks and instill fear into old drivers from the other old drivers who buy them.

[edit]

Well the Intrepid and 300C, anyway.

 

[1X83Z]

I've asked myself that question with quite a few GM products. . .especially the SSR. The people who buy that thing don't buy it for the bed, and it only (comfortably) holds 2 people...and it's not that great of a track car, I just didn't understand it.

Who cares? The second the first person bought one of those things they began making a profit. Now that horsepower's been increased to 390, there's no way Chevrolet isn't making a tidy sum on these things. The joys of limited production. Not to mention its status as an image car - people see those things on Chevrolet lots and get excited about Chevrolets. The key is to find an image car that sells too (350Z, TT) but even if it doesn't (GT40) it still fulfills its goal. Same goes with the Corvette - you might think the new Corvette is pretty sexy; it would raise your notions of Chevrolet. New car time comes and you might not be able to afford a new Corvette, but maybe you can afford a Cobalt. That's the goal with image cars.

we're not likely to see the nitro come into production.

Not only will it be produced, I think it might even be named Nitro.

 

[PS]

Who cares? The second the first person bought one of those things they began making a profit. Now that horsepower's been increased to 390, there's no way Chevrolet isn't making a tidy sum on these things. The joys of limited production. Not to mention its status as an image car - people see those things on Chevrolet lots and get excited about Chevrolets. The key is to find an image car that sells too (350Z, TT) but even if it doesn't (GT40) it still fulfills its goal. Same goes with the Corvette - you might think the new Corvette is pretty sexy; it would raise your notions of Chevrolet. New car time comes and you might not be able to afford a new Corvette, but maybe you can afford a Cobalt. That's the goal with image cars.

Not only will it be produced, I think it might even be named Nitro.

You continue to surprise with your originality in seeing things.

I remember when you'd go on binges proving statistically how much better a car is, and how you couldn't fathom why someone would buy a certain car. And here you are, putting those "trend researching skils" to use and showing what works and what doesn't. I'm not sure what you did just there but it impressed me, unfortunately the whole image car thing still eludes my logic.

 

[1X83Z]

I remember when you'd go on binges proving statistically how much better a car is, and how you couldn't fathom why someone would buy a certain car.

I'd still do that given the right time and place.

And here you are, putting those "trend researching skils" to use and showing what works and what doesn't. I'm not sure what you did just there but it impressed me, unfortunately the whole image car thing still eludes my logic.

Well the point here isn't simple but it's one you must understand to do good business as an auto industry giant. Ford introduces the GT40. They probably made no more than 1000 of those things. Most people will never see one. But at this point nearly everyone's heard of it. Ford advertised it during the Super Bowl, not because they were trying to sell it, but because they wanted to show people how sporty Ford had become. Wow, look, it's the Ford that can keep with the nicest Ferrari on a track. So average Joe's sitting at home watching the Super Bowl, he sees the GT40 ad. He can't afford a GT40, but he loves it: quick, expensive, exclusive, fun, good-looking. That makes him like Ford as a brand more - "Ford builds that!?" Ford's hope is that it translates in to a sale - maybe a Focus or a Mustang - anything. The GT40 improved Ford's image for average Joe, and he bought a Focus because of it. Hence image car.

 

[Ev0]

The concept of the image car is certainly interesting. For exapmle, most of us here all drool over the new Vette, yet pretty much none of us will be buying a new Chevrolet in the near future despite this, mainly because their cars are inferior to the competition. So, we all think the concept of an image car is stupid, right? Well, lets think of it another way. The average Joe is going car shopping, and decides to have a quick glance at a Chevy dealership, because the Corvette at the front caught his attention, and drew him in. Now, he's not looking for a Vette, but it makes him think about Chevy, and gets him into their dealership, giving them a chance to make a sale.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the image car is aimed more at the general public than at automotive enthusiasts, most of whom are deeply loyal to their chosen marques, and will not pledge allegence to another brand unless a major shift happens within a particular brand. Case in point, Dodge/Chrysler. They were making some pretty craptacular cars as little as 3 years ago. But they have come out shooting with excellent marketing, and more improtantly, excellent cars. I'm now a big fan of Dodge and Chrysler due to the SRT-4, the 300C, and the new Hemi V8 (Very good value for it's massive horsepower). And none of this was related to a central image car. (Dodge has always had the Viper, but I've always been a fan of it, so it doesn't count for helping me like the brand)

 

[Joey D]

The Hemi was by far the best marketing poly I have ever seen. Let's not just make a V8 lets make a Hemi V8 and put it in everything! I commend them for thinking that up.

 

[1X83Z]

The concept of the image car is certainly interesting. For exapmle, most of us here all drool over the new Vette, yet pretty much none of us will be buying a new Chevrolet in the near future despite this, mainly because their cars are inferior to the competition. So, we all think the concept of an image car is stupid, right? Well, lets think of it another way. The average Joe is going car shopping, and decides to have a quick glance at a Chevy dealership, because the Corvette at the front caught his attention, and drew him in. Now, he's not looking for a Vette, but it makes him think about Chevy, and gets him into their dealership, giving them a chance to make a sale.

That's the goal!

By the way - and this is the only time I will ever make such a comment - a true auto enthusiast has no brand allegiances.

 

[Ev0]

By the way - and this is the only time I will ever make such a comment - a true auto enthusiast has no brand allegiances.

I have to agree with that; any true enthusiast only likes cars because they are good cars, not because of the badge they carry. But unfortunately, as we all know, people don't think like that (myself included).

 

[Firebird]

As do I the Nissan Quest. I don't know what it is about me, but I'm just drawn to that particular minivan. It has something like 5 roof "skyviews" or windows, and it has the best ass I've ever seen.

As much as I believe everyone is entitled to an opinion... well, frankly, your opinion is wrong.

 

[skicrush]

That HRV OR HHR thing is hideous. You have no idea how maddening it is to be a marketing graduate and see the endless sea of utterly forgetable CRAP that rolls off the production lines. They have means to see what people like, yet again and again they produce these things NO ONE thinks are cool. Like the Aztec. HOLY **** that thing is UGLY! How did it ever make it past the focus groups? The Chevy SS concept that came out a year or two ago--nothing ever happened with that, even when the market was CLEARLY showing that 4 door muscle cars are DEFINITLY back in (IE when Chrysler struck gold with 300C and now the Charger). Why does GM and Ford think that if you have a family, you want to drive like a grandma? Or be able to afford a BMW? Don't even get me started on the "angry eyes" on the chevy trucks. (I DO have to point out that GM + Chevy Trucks outsell the Fords by quite a large margin. The GM trucks are designed to appeal to the more conservative buyers, and "steal" a lot of Chevy sales)

It's like GM employs their marketing people to make excuses for their poor product offering, and con people into buying their cars, instead of the marketing department taking control of the company and driving innovation. Marketing is the name of game because if you don't sell, you're out of the game! To sell, they need to find out what people want, and then make it. Marketing is the first and last step in the process--market research to find out what people want, and then advertising and stuff to let people know you built what they wanted. Man, I am SO frustrated with GM right now--their marketing team is SO asleep at the wheel! Why does it take a near death experience to wake anyone up (CADDY!!!!!)??

 

[Duke]

GM, for the last 20 years or so, have been the kings of spending huge amounts of development money answering questions nobody ever asked.

 

[skicrush]

The Hemi was by far the best marketing poly I have ever seen. Let's not just make a V8 lets make a Hemi V8 and put it in everything! I commend them for thinking that up.

Now, I know there are several factors at play here, but SERIOUSLY! Do you really want to run your own meal ticket into the ground? Because of the vast United Auto Workers agreements GM has in place, they have to run their factories at 80% or more, or pay union memebers their salaries even if they shutter the factory. Thus, they keep developing "new" cars that can be made at the same facilities, on the same machinery, utilizing old technology to keep development and re-tooling costs down. That's a huge oversimplification of the problem, but that's it in a nutshell. None of the asian carmakers are saddled with these kind of "legacy costs"--the don't emply union workers. (GM made some noise about equalizing benefits between salary (who pay about$100/month) and union workers (who have crazy benefits for free), and do you know what the union's response was? "WE're more than willing to share our benefits plan with the salaried workers.") Really, it limits their mobility to follow the newer trends, such as the building of performance oriented family cars and cutting down on their SUV offerings, or of shuttering their out-of-date divisions. While it may have been the right long term move, shuttering Olds cost GM $1.1 BILLION! CASH. NOT counting the little bit more market share they lost. And it looks like the unions are content to just ride it into the ground.

But still, there are NO excuses for some things, like the AZTEC and for building 5-6 models of IDENTICAL cars.

 

[Sniffs]

chuckle*
something just struck me

I think the HHR is Aztek's replacement O.O


I agree with Skicrush on most points...GM's asleep, and has a rep for simply throwing money around. but right now, ford also appears to be sound asleep. it's taking the European divisions of GM to prod it awake, and even then, they just roll over and go back to sleep.

Ford also seems to be asleep at the wheel, as everything is starting to look like clones in the ford stable, lincoln gets a breif mention occasionally, and I haven't seen a PEEP out of Mercury.