What would you define as a CLEAN RACE?
- Thread starter TheBuG
- 78 comments
- 4,542 views
Totally agree. Taps and nudges are what make DTM as entertaining as it is. I'm not condoning pushing people off track, or spinning them, but - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gw-AxiVqihM
- 326
- Gee-dub-ya
It's harder on the ring to have a clean race due to the width, speed, and undulations of the track.
I had an immense 1 lap battle online with a 430 scuderia in my S2000 GT1.I was in second all the lap but marginally quicker through a lot of the corners. We were right on the ragged edge all lap, any attempt to overtake would've ended in tears as all the track was being used, I had to back off a few times where I could've gone for it. Managed to pass just once cleanly,but was slightly muscled out in a re pass, I settled for following at a very close distance and a very exciting race.
I had an immense 1 lap battle online with a 430 scuderia in my S2000 GT1.I was in second all the lap but marginally quicker through a lot of the corners. We were right on the ragged edge all lap, any attempt to overtake would've ended in tears as all the track was being used, I had to back off a few times where I could've gone for it. Managed to pass just once cleanly,but was slightly muscled out in a re pass, I settled for following at a very close distance and a very exciting race.
- 347
- ace004
As far as online public races go, I just ask myself if I would be mad if someone did that to me? It's a game with a big difference in skill level between online players. If I fly up on someone and I bump them hard on the next corner and push them off course then I would probably be a little mad. But if I'm on a guys tailpipe for three laps trying to find a clean pass and he keeps blocking every attempt then swapping a tiny bit of paint wouldn't bug me. How I see it with majority of online races is... If I can't put a lead on you then I deserve to lose. Now I wouldn't treat real life this way, but for a video game I just ask myself how I would feel if it happened to me.
Destinkeys
(Banned)
- 1,199
- Destinkeys
Sometimes I have to wonder... When designing a RACING game, why make no effort at all to have the game adjudicate racing incidents? Oh yeah, I forgot... GT5 is a DRIVING game! I guess it's only coincidence that ALL the driving takes place on race tracks... 
It should be part of the software to say 'If you get four wheels off the track, your engine is cut and you have to give way to on track cars before you can reestablish yourself'. It should be possible to have a 'zone' from your center pillar (or whatever the game chooses) extending sideways out from your car, and if contact is made during a corner (or even a straight), if it is made BEFORE you cross this imaginary line, you get a drive-through, if it is made after you cross the line, the front car gets the drive-through. It should be easy for software to calculate (or look at your lap stats) to determine the fastest you can make it cleanly through any specific corner. If you enter MUCH faster than that, and then make contact - drive-through and if you brake WAY early for a corner to get the trailing car to tap you, that's YOUR fault - drive-through! If you cut a chicane and gain position inside a hundred yards or so (because of the speed advantage doing that gives you), drive-through.
These all seem to be things that the software itself could calculate, and act as a 'game steward', and impose penalties. Better than leaving it to the players themselves, to be honest.
The same could be done for 'lurkers' who like to park round blind corners, or drive backwards around the track. Do either, get booted automatically (if turned on by lobby creator). I am sure that most of us could think of some way the software itself could determine the difference between a 'tap' and a blatant 'shove'.
Flags would also add one more degree of realism and immersion. So would flag girls, too, if you like! I miss them from Shift!
But, unless you simply say that GT5 is a DRIVING game (and in which case, why do it on race tracks?), some effort ought to be made to adjudicate racing RULES by the software, not the players.
There are several Special Events and License Tests where VERY strict contact and track cutting rules are rigorously enforced. Apparently, the game CAN adjudicate at least SOME infractions, and more could be added. Time to add these to Lobby Rules (as an option, for the bashers out there!).
Maybe a whole 'Pro Mode'? Full damage on, full racing rules enforced, kitty litter MUCH harder to drive out of, grass MUCH slipperier, No track cutting of ANY kind. Drive-through's for EVERYONE!
It should be part of the software to say 'If you get four wheels off the track, your engine is cut and you have to give way to on track cars before you can reestablish yourself'. It should be possible to have a 'zone' from your center pillar (or whatever the game chooses) extending sideways out from your car, and if contact is made during a corner (or even a straight), if it is made BEFORE you cross this imaginary line, you get a drive-through, if it is made after you cross the line, the front car gets the drive-through. It should be easy for software to calculate (or look at your lap stats) to determine the fastest you can make it cleanly through any specific corner. If you enter MUCH faster than that, and then make contact - drive-through and if you brake WAY early for a corner to get the trailing car to tap you, that's YOUR fault - drive-through! If you cut a chicane and gain position inside a hundred yards or so (because of the speed advantage doing that gives you), drive-through.
These all seem to be things that the software itself could calculate, and act as a 'game steward', and impose penalties. Better than leaving it to the players themselves, to be honest.
The same could be done for 'lurkers' who like to park round blind corners, or drive backwards around the track. Do either, get booted automatically (if turned on by lobby creator). I am sure that most of us could think of some way the software itself could determine the difference between a 'tap' and a blatant 'shove'.
Flags would also add one more degree of realism and immersion. So would flag girls, too, if you like! I miss them from Shift!
But, unless you simply say that GT5 is a DRIVING game (and in which case, why do it on race tracks?), some effort ought to be made to adjudicate racing RULES by the software, not the players.
There are several Special Events and License Tests where VERY strict contact and track cutting rules are rigorously enforced. Apparently, the game CAN adjudicate at least SOME infractions, and more could be added. Time to add these to Lobby Rules (as an option, for the bashers out there!).
Maybe a whole 'Pro Mode'? Full damage on, full racing rules enforced, kitty litter MUCH harder to drive out of, grass MUCH slipperier, No track cutting of ANY kind. Drive-through's for EVERYONE!
- 2,586
- trk29
I'm talking about the grass. The Apex book actually says this as a tactic to get better times/pass people.
I always follow the Formula 1 rule online. If I cut a corner (or even get pushed to the inside) and gain an advantage, I'm off the gas, tuck in behind the guy I'm racing, and go at it again. Concede the position and don't profit from cutting corners.
If someone tries to dive-bomb me on the inside, not leaving enough room to brake, then that's fair game. You'll usually see them try it a few times. The end of the tunnel on Trial Mountain is perfect for this. Give them room on the inside, brake early, slip in behind and underneath, and push them wide just a hair as you slip underneath.
If they get inside of me and drive a solid line, then we just stay side-by-side and race it out as clean as we can.
If someone tries to dive-bomb me on the inside, not leaving enough room to brake, then that's fair game. You'll usually see them try it a few times. The end of the tunnel on Trial Mountain is perfect for this. Give them room on the inside, brake early, slip in behind and underneath, and push them wide just a hair as you slip underneath.
If they get inside of me and drive a solid line, then we just stay side-by-side and race it out as clean as we can.
- 1,406
- Massachusetts
- AJ_Foyt_Racing
I find it very aggravating racing others online especially when racing incidence are looked at like intentionally hitting the other driver in which we see way too much of. I can be a patiently aggressive driver but I still want to cleanly race my opponents. I NEVER intentionally hit or ram other driver to gain a position on them.
It is best when you can race against people you know and who know how you race.
It is best when you can race against people you know and who know how you race.
Destinkeys
(Banned)
- 1,199
- Destinkeys
Who has the TIME to review each and every driver's replay after each and every race to ensure clean driving? The game itself should be the steward, it should not be handed over to the players... the 'red mist' has already come down!
It CAN be done, it SHOULD be done...
It CAN be done, it SHOULD be done...
Those who are saying that the game itself should act in a race steward type role really ought to play F1 2010. You'll see it's not the great thing you make it out to be.
Example: Start of a race at Valencia, the first corner is a very gentle right hander taken flat. Two cars collide in front of me, one spins directly on the racing line, I cannot do anything but hit it. Upon contact, I am given a 10 second penalty. Presumably it's programmed into the game that contact from behind is an instant penalty under any circumstance.
Honestly, I'd hate if GT were like that.
Example: Start of a race at Valencia, the first corner is a very gentle right hander taken flat. Two cars collide in front of me, one spins directly on the racing line, I cannot do anything but hit it. Upon contact, I am given a 10 second penalty. Presumably it's programmed into the game that contact from behind is an instant penalty under any circumstance.
Honestly, I'd hate if GT were like that.
- 179
- Rulerzigzag
A clean race in GT5 is the same as a clean race in real life except in the game there shouldn't be any lag at all or it can get sloppy. But other than that, clean driving includes-
-Waiting for passing chances, don't bump from behind, just rub the bumper to say hello.
-If a car is on your back bumper, and you know you're slow, LET IT PASS !
-If you sacrifice your driving line to pass, you better pass, otherwise brake and get behind again.
-Cut off trailing car in your slipstream, but make sure you don't cut them off too late and run them off the track.
Oh and here's an example of clean driving. At least the final lap and a half;
-Waiting for passing chances, don't bump from behind, just rub the bumper to say hello.
-If a car is on your back bumper, and you know you're slow, LET IT PASS !
-If you sacrifice your driving line to pass, you better pass, otherwise brake and get behind again.
-Cut off trailing car in your slipstream, but make sure you don't cut them off too late and run them off the track.
Oh and here's an example of clean driving. At least the final lap and a half;
- 3,273
- CA, USA
- Sum1s2pid
Clean racing isn't rocket surgery, it's common sense. Sadly, this is absent in a lot of online 'drivers'. Hopefully, someone will learn something after reading these scores of tips and advice, but...
There are some people that if they don't know, you can't tell them.
Louis Armstrong
There are some people that if they don't know, you can't tell them.
Louis Armstrong
- 21
I have met alot of clean drivers online (might be some of you guys 
) that raced with courtesy and sportsmanship. i also met some drivers that made me scringe. The worst thing for me is when you spin off the track, don't just immediately cut in, allow other drivers to pass, if there is a gap where you can enter the track without cutting someone off, then do so. I cant tell you how many times i hit people because they spun off and just decided to cut everyone off so that they can continue racing 
Technitium
) that raced with courtesy and sportsmanship. i also met some drivers that made me scringe. The worst thing for me is when you spin off the track, don't just immediately cut in, allow other drivers to pass, if there is a gap where you can enter the track without cutting someone off, then do so. I cant tell you how many times i hit people because they spun off and just decided to cut everyone off so that they can continue racing Technitium
- 267
- Perth, WA
- Bobtehblob
Weren't trying to pull the classic AI your on my racing line pit manoeuvre were we? 
- 4,209
- Wasilla, AK
The problems with waiting for someone to recover are several:
First, someone who brakes too early for corners (*cough*ME*cough*) should not get to ruin everyone's chance of catching the leaders. Allowing them to do so encourages them to not bother improving their braking points. Exposing them to the full cost of early braking, however, would provide incentive for rapid improvement. Thus, allowing an early braker to fall behind is actually in that driver's long-term best interest, and everyone else's by extension.
Second, if they brake checked you on purpose, that's class A poor sportsmanship and should not be tolerated at all.
Third, if someone brake checked you, it probably won't be the last time. Having to wait for the brake checker to get back in front of them, then repeat the whole routine, could completely ruin an otherwise good race for whoever is unlucky enough to get stuck behind them.
(hope this isn't infraction worthy. Not trying to troll, it's just that sometimes, you can't hide your beliefs.)
I cant tell you how many times i hit people because they spun off and just decided to cut everyone off so that they can continue racing
Yes, but there's a limit to that. Some people don't know it well enough. I've been honked at by someone who was in no danger of a collision or even significant inconvenience.
First, someone who brakes too early for corners (*cough*ME*cough*) should not get to ruin everyone's chance of catching the leaders. Allowing them to do so encourages them to not bother improving their braking points. Exposing them to the full cost of early braking, however, would provide incentive for rapid improvement. Thus, allowing an early braker to fall behind is actually in that driver's long-term best interest, and everyone else's by extension.
Second, if they brake checked you on purpose, that's class A poor sportsmanship and should not be tolerated at all.
Third, if someone brake checked you, it probably won't be the last time. Having to wait for the brake checker to get back in front of them, then repeat the whole routine, could completely ruin an otherwise good race for whoever is unlucky enough to get stuck behind them.
(hope this isn't infraction worthy. Not trying to troll, it's just that sometimes, you can't hide your beliefs.)
I cant tell you how many times i hit people because they spun off and just decided to cut everyone off so that they can continue racing
Yes, but there's a limit to that. Some people don't know it well enough. I've been honked at by someone who was in no danger of a collision or even significant inconvenience.
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- 491
- GTP_DOUQA
I think that rule held most weight in Prologue and could probably be removed now. In Prologue if you quit the race and you were the host, everyones race was over.
The OLR is stringent to ensure that everyone has a clean race. Racing on a computer and viewing everything through a screen makes it much more difficult to be aware of your surroundings and what other drivers are doing. If you follow the rules you should have some great races.
Hitting someone from behind just because they are slower than you is wrong unless its an honest mistake, sometimes it easy to get caught out by much slower drivers. The OP wasnt talking about brake checking, he was talking about knocking other drivers off just because they are slower through turns and he made it sound like he doesn't even try to brake behind them.
If you hit someone who has rejoined the track and is on the racing line doing 2MPH its their fault. In that situation you'd have to assume they didn't give you enough time to avoid them(or you wouldn't have hit them right?). If you leave the track you should wait until there is a large enough gap to rejoin safely.
Anybody who disagrees is welcome to stay the hell out of the fantastic online racing that goes on around here.👍
- 3,221
- Maldives
- zedextreme8177
Basically, don't attempt to pass unless you know you can. Sometimes, you just have to wait behind until an opportunity comes.
I've had some of the most enjoyable races at La Sarthe 2005 unchicaned. It doesn't allow for too many shortcuts, and the Mulsanne is a great place for slipstreaming.
I've had some of the most enjoyable races at La Sarthe 2005 unchicaned. It doesn't allow for too many shortcuts, and the Mulsanne is a great place for slipstreaming.
