What's so special about customization?

[PepeMickey]

Seeing how the ''Hybrid'' movement evolved from ridiculous cars to mechanical changes to achieve better ''looks'' and taking a look at the past 10 years in GT history, watching people complaining about customization and how other games did it better. All the comparisons between GT5 and FM3/FM4 at some point touch on the customization topic again and again. All these make me wonder, do we really need chromed Veyrons, pink 458s, stanced cars in GT6 or any future GT installment to make it a ''better'' game? To make our decision of buying it or not based on that, do we?

I just don't get it, does customization need to be GT's main focus to be ''better'' overall? I mean, PD/Sony spend millions of dollars licensing, taking pictures and modeling cars just to make them as accurate as possible to their real world counterparts. They go as far as getting the correct hue for the manufacturer's original colors, same goes for materials. 6-man months per car.

All that hard work just so people can instantly throw a Gold Chrome paint chip on their Enzos, put on a spoiler and generic equally chromed rims and voila, all the hard work goes to the trash can. Why bother licensing the cars then? If thats the case, GT would be better off with made up cars like GTA or Burnout, people are gonna change and ruin them anyway.

I think cars are beautiful just the way the come out of the dealership, manufacturers spend millions researching and designing their products, some have a brand character, such as BMW or Aston Martin. Senna helped to develope the NSX, great! let's throw an LFA chassis then, Senna would be proud.

When NFS Most Wanted 2012 launched without customization, some casual gamers and casual car enthusiasts thought it was ok and ''tuning'' was a waste of time, they thought that cars like the ones featured in that game didn't need ''tuning'' because that would completely ruin them. I find it hilarious that we are supposed to be the ''hardcore'' car enthusiasts and we act like children who just watched ''The Fast and The Furious'' for the first time.

I'm talking in general of course because I understand people who make replicas of cars not featured in the game, I find those very helpful and they bring a lot more to the game but terms like ''stanced'', ''Hellaflush'', ''Slammed''....seriously? why bother playing GT then?

To each their own but the point is, GT is lacking in other areas, focusing on those other areas would benefit the game a lot more than customization, really...I want to know what you guys think about customization and the way it affects the game in general.

 

[nickg07]

I don't see the need for hell a flush etc at all. There's loads of cars and loads of turning options already. Updates tuning should happen though like the ability to supercharge the new Toyota fr would be appreciated.

 

[Exorcet]

do we really need chromed Veyrons, pink 458s, stanced cars in GT6 or any future GT installment to make it a ''better'' game?

Yes, more options is better.

I just don't get it, does customization need to be GT's main focus to be ''better'' overall? I mean, PD/Sony spend millions of dollars licensing, taking pictures and modeling cars just to make them as accurate as possible to their real world counterparts. They go as far as getting the correct hue for the manufacturer's original colors, same goes for materials. 6-man months per car.

The accuracy of the cars is moderate at best. Visually, they are good (most of the time), but physics wise much is lacking.

All that hard work just so people can instantly throw a Gold Chrome paint chip on their Enzos, put on a spoiler and generic equally chromed rims and voila, all the hard work goes to the trashcan. Why bother licensing the cars then? I f thats the case, GT could be better off with made up cars like GTA or Burnout, people are gonna change and ruin them anyway.

1. Just because people can does not mean they will. You will have Gold Chrome Enzos, and you will have stock Enzos. I've never had a Gold Chrome anything because it looks ridiculous. On the contrary, I don't have a Viper GTS in Blue with White stripes because GT5 does not allow you to make one.

2. Real cars are more than exterior, so no even if everyone completely changed the look of the cars, modeling real cars would not be pointless.

3. Customizing is not ruining.

4. Race cars.

I think cars are beautiful just the way the come out of the dealership

That doesn't mean they're beautiful they way they come out of the dealership.

manufacturers spend millions researching and designing their products, some have brand character, such as BMW or Aston Martin. Senna helped to develope the NSX, great! let's throw an LFA chassis then, Senna would be proud.

This doesn't negate the fact that adding a functional body kit on a road car will probably make it better. It also doesn't change the fact that everyone has to option to make a modified car or leave it stock.

I'm talking in general of course because I understand people who make replicas of cars not featured in the game, I find those very helpful and they bring a lot more to the game but terms like ''stanced'', ''Hellaflush'', ''Slammed''....seriously? why bother playing GT then?

Why not? Replicas are no different from stanced cars or whatever.

To each their own but the point is, GT is lacking in other areas, focusing on those other areas would benefit the game a lot more than customization, really...I want to know what you guys think about customization and the way it affects the game in general.

Customization is one of the areas it's lacking in. There's also no reason why we can't get customization and all the other things.

 

[Scaff]

Nissan UK once took a Micra and converted it to RWD, threw in the 2.0 turbo engine and created a track maniac...

...in FM4 I could recreate it....

....in GT% I can't.

That's just one example of many. The ability to carry out drivetrain conversions, aspiration conversions and engine swaps, along with the need for visual work (as per the Ferrari below) are much needed in the GT series.

 

[Ranman20]

We can do as we please. Don't buy GT titles from now on then!

 

[Scaff]

We can do as we please. Don't buy GT titles from now on then!

I'm not sure who that's aimed at, nor do I really care as its not called for in any way.

 

[The Stig Farmer]

Customisation is all about individuality. There isn't much individual about a car with one choice of bodykit and no custom livery, and the same drivetrain as every other one of its kind.

 

[jgancherjr]

Customisation is all about individuality. There isn't much individual about a car with one choice of bodykit and no custom livery, and the same drivetrain as every other one of its kind.

This guys got it 👍

 

[PepeMickey]

Customisation is all about individuality. There isn't much individual about a car with one choice of bodykit and no custom livery, and the same drivetrain as every other one of its kind.

Ok, thank you, this a legit answer. I see where you are coming from, Having options is always good, it's just that some people don't seem to understand this:

1.- You can't just feature cross-manufacturer engine swaps without having an agreement with the companies involved.

2.- You can't just make your Ferrari 430 Scuderia 4WD if Ferrari doesn't allow it through licensing

3.- GT is a console franchise and modding/hacking is not allowed, having the opportunity to mod the game and get the most out of it doesn't make it ok to hack and it doesn't mean that GT6 must include this level of customization, if some expect that to happen, then they should take it to the PC where modding is allowed.

4.- If GT6 doesn't feature such level of customization that won't automatically make it a **** game

Some people expect way too much from the same company that took 5 years to develope 50% of a game, just because they've hacked GT5 doesn't make it ok to demand such things for GT6 nor does it make it easier for PD. Like I said, it all depends on licensing.

 

[Rayzah]

Does it really irk you that I like to paint all my Touring and Racing cars in matte white and remove their spoilers? Or that I'd prefer to swap an H22A into my DC2, and make it RWD like our good friend Dave did? Or that I'd like to put a big fat turbo on my big fat Dodge truck?
As far as I'm concerned, if it can be done in real life, then why am I not 'allowed' to replicate it in-game?

 

[Exorcet]

Some people expect way too much from the same company that took 5 years to develope 50% of a game, just because they've hacked GT5 doesn't make it ok to demand such things for GT6 nor does it make it easier for PD. Like I said, it all depends on licensing.

Other companies can do more in the same time, so how is it expecting too much? Licensing isn't an issue either, all the other games that have the features people want have to deal with licensing too.

 

[GODfreyGT5]

Customisation allows you to create something that becomes 'yours'!

In the short time I played test drive 2, I took pride in taking out the few cars I had put time into painting, they were unique, and styled to my liking, it was awesome!

If GT had a livery creator (either ingame or importable from pc using photoshop), it would launch life massively back into the game as hacking did. Imagine race series with teams that had their complete own designs, it would be fantastic!

We've wanted this since 2010, and were hoping to see it on GT's release.

Crossed fingers for GT6!

 

[PepeMickey]

Other companies can do more in the same time, so how is it expecting too much? Licensing isn't an issue either, all the other games that have the features people want have to deal with licensing too.

Other games also have moderate physics recreation like GT5, just like you said earlier, if thats your point then all those games desperately need to sort their physics engines out to achieve 100% accurate recreation of a car first before they even think about customizing it, right? Does adding a stage 3 turbo and weight reduction fixes the physics engine? not in my book so it's pointless really to try and make replicas.

Other companies also have bigger staff and bigger work force, other companies have more money, other companies make shortcuts to save time. You have to be realistic here.

 

[Exorcet]

Other games also have moderate physics recreation like GT5, just like you said earlier, if thats your point then all those games desperately need to sort their physics engines out to achieve 100% accurate recreation of a car first before they even think about customizing it, right? Does adding a stage 3 turbo and weight reduction fixes the physics engine? not in my book so it's pointless really to try and make replicas.

Actually some games have better physics than GT which aren't in need of as much attention.

But anyway, like I said before, they can improve physics while adding customization. They aren't mutually exclusive.

Other companies also have bigger staff and bigger work force, other companies have more money, other companies make shortcuts to save time. You have to be realistic here.

I am being realistic. I don't see what's difference between "them" and PD. They all have limits too and they seem to be doing OK.

 

[Tornado]

Other games also have moderate physics recreation like GT5, just like you said earlier, if thats your point then all those games desperately need to sort their physics engines out to achieve 100% accurate recreation of a car first before they even think about customizing it, right?

PD could have the best physics engine on the market (and they don't, but let's say they did) and there are cars, brand new Premium cars even, that they aren't even close to 100% accurately representing.

Other companies also have bigger staff and bigger work force, other companies have more money, other companies make shortcuts to save time. You have to be realistic here.

Not many companies have more money to develop games than PD did for GT5, nevermind time; and there are plenty of examples of shortcuts taken with GT5 (particularly in regards to sounds, but also in regards to data collection).

 

[Ranman20]

I'm not sure who that's aimed at, nor do I really care as its not called for in any way.

At OP.

 

[oXION4o]

as long it has 4 wheels and it can go faster than the AI its fine with me

 

[fbccars924]

The main thing we want from it is the livery editor. Imagine finally having the ability to match your car to your favorite race car. Or if your in a race/drift team being able to make a team livery that all the drivers could match so your team is recognizably on the same team.



Do Hackers make

 

[White & Nerdy]

Yes, as a matter of fact I do think customization is important. No matter where you go you'll people with bad taste. GT5's customization is comical, but still you find chrome Ferraris, ugly "hey guise I paint my car to look like *insert pony here*" cars, and attempts at stance.

Forza should be their target as far as livery editor goes, Shift2 should be their "whatever they do, do the opposite" example.

 

[PepeMickey]

Yes, as a matter of fact I do think customization is important. No matter where you go you'll people with bad taste. GT5's customization is comical, but still you find chrome Ferraris, ugly "hey guise I paint my car to look like *insert pony here*" cars, and attempts at stance.

Forza should be their target as far as livery editor goes, Shift2 should be their "whatever they do, do the opposite" example.

Shift 2 actually did one or two things better than both GT5 and FM4, you had the ability to turn any car...yes, any car into a race car with actual custom interior, tyres and everything, not just a road car with a race livery trying to be a replica like in Forza.

They introduced the helmet cam which we will be seeing in PCARS and finally, their sound design completely destroys GT5 and FM4, it's the only one out of those three that really makes you feel the car through the sound. Let's not talk about accuracy because let's face it, no game with actual realistic and accurate sounds has ever existed so all we've got left is the feel the sound produces in you and wether its convincing or not.

Now, I'm not going to sit here discussing about Shift's actual physics or anything because some people get really sensible when the "inferior" third game is thrown into the GT vs FM equation. In my opinion GT would benefit more from copying SMS than T10, SMS work seems more suitable for GT's style than FM's, besides, nobody wants GT and Forza to be the same game, right? I want to believe that, if somebody actually wants that, then I will retire because it makes no sense to be looking forward to GT6 when Forza 4 is already there.

I won't ever understand some people, complaining about GT and wanting GT to be Forza. Why? wouldn't it be easier to just go with Forza? I hate this phrase but it really is that simple, if you don't like it, don't play it.

Edit: I forgot about one thing that Shift 2 did right, Shift 2 has hands down the best and biggest track selection ever on a console racer, Silverstone, Bathurst, Spa, Hockenheim, Donington, Brands Hatch, Road America, Laguna seca, Monza, etc.

 

[White & Nerdy]

Shift 2 actually did one or two things better than both GT5 and FM4, you had the ability to turn any car...yes, any car into a race car with actual custom interior, tyres and everything, not just a road car with a race livery trying to be a replica like in Forza.

They introduced the helmet cam which we will be seeing in PCARS and finally, their sound design completely destroys GT5 and FM4, it's the only one out of those three that really makes you feel the car through the sound. Let's not talk about accuracy because let's face it, no game with actual realistic and accurate sounds has ever existed so all we've got left is the feel the sound produces in you and wether its convincing or not.

Now, I'm not going to sit here discussing about Shift's actual physics or anything because some people get really sensible when the "inferior" third game is thrown into the GT vs FM equation. In my opinion GT would benefit more from copying SMS than T10, SMS work seems more suitable for GT's style than FM's, besides, nobody wants GT and Forza to be the same game, right? I want to believe that, if somebody actually wants that, then I will retire because it makes no sense to be looking forward to GT6 when Forza 4 is already there.

I won't ever understand some people, complaining about GT and wanting GT to be Forza. Why? wouldn't it be easier to just go with Forza? I hate this phrase but it really is that simple, if you don't like it, don't play it.

Edit: I forgot about one thing that Shift 2 did right, Shift 2 has hands down the best and biggest track selection ever on a console racer, Silverstone, Bathurst, Spa, Hockenheim, Donington, Brands Hatch, Road America, Laguna seca, Monza, etc.

True, but I still found Shift2's livery editor obnoxious and generally impossible. Eventually I just gave up and used the preset liveries because I couldn't make anything worth looking at. Compared to previous NFS games, they had a very small number of vinyl categories, limited to 10 vinyls per category, and two of the categories were "STANCE" stupidity. They also didn't include any pre-made numbers. So they obviously intended for you to assemble your own numbers and decals from their base shapes... enter NFS lo-res vinyls. The color-selection system was also a step down from that of previous games. Why bother seriously.

 

[Scaff]

At OP.

As per my previous post, don't attack other members in this manner again. Either argue the point without attacking the person or refrain from making the post.

Shift 2 actually did one or two things better than both GT5 and FM4, you had the ability to turn any car...yes, any car into a race car with actual custom interior, tyres and everything, not just a road car with a race livery trying to be a replica like in Forza.

They introduced the helmet cam which we will be seeing in PCARS and finally, their sound design completely destroys GT5 and FM4, it's the only one out of those three that really makes you feel the car through the sound. Let's not talk about accuracy because let's face it, no game with actual realistic and accurate sounds has ever existed so all we've got left is the feel the sound produces in you and wether its convincing or not.

Now, I'm not going to sit here discussing about Shift's actual physics or anything because some people get really sensible when the "inferior" third game is thrown into the GT vs FM equation. In my opinion GT would benefit more from copying SMS than T10, SMS work seems more suitable for GT's style than FM's, besides, nobody wants GT and Forza to be the same game, right? I want to believe that, if somebody actually wants that, then I will retire because it makes no sense to be looking forward to GT6 when Forza 4 is already there.

I won't ever understand some people, complaining about GT and wanting GT to be Forza. Why? wouldn't it be easier to just go with Forza? I hate this phrase but it really is that simple, if you don't like it, don't play it.

Edit: I forgot about one thing that Shift 2 did right, Shift 2 has hands down the best and biggest track selection ever on a console racer, Silverstone, Bathurst, Spa, Hockenheim, Donington, Brands Hatch, Road America, Laguna seca, Monza, etc.

No one is advocating that GT become Forza, simply that other titles have features that should be incorporated into GT. The livery editor from Forza is used as an example because its easily one of the best on the market, the drivetrain swaps from Forza are used because very few other titles have them, the Race modifications from Shift is another good example.

This statement....

"I won't ever understand some people, complaining about GT and wanting GT to be Forza. Why? wouldn't it be easier to just go with Forza? I hate this phrase but it really is that simple, if you don't like it, don't play it."


...however makes no sense, I could swap the work Forza for Shift and aim it straight back at yourself. It would still miss the point, as no one is asking for that at all, and a small heads up, simply because someone believes that other titles do things better than GT (which is no surprise and the list is fairly big) doesn't mean you get to state they should just refrain from commenting and go and play something else.

Target the point, don't target the person.

 

[nickg07]

Does it really irk you that I like to paint all my Touring and Racing cars in matte white and remove their spoilers? Or that I'd prefer to swap an H22A into my DC2, and make it RWD like our good friend Dave did? Or that I'd like to put a big fat turbo on my big fat Dodge truck?
As far as I'm concerned, if it can be done in real life, then why am I not 'allowed' to replicate it in-game?

Because its gran turismo not need for speed herp derp.

Yes Nissan once created a prototype car that had a 2.0 in a car x y z.

They are the car manufacturer. They have tools to produce concepts like this. And resources and if GT want you to have this car they will make the model themselves and put it into the game.

 

[Scaff]

Because its gran turismo not need for speed herp derp.

Yes Nissan once created a prototype car that had a 2.0 in a car x y z.

They are the car manufacturer. They have tools to produce concepts like this. And resources and if GT want you to have this car they will make the model themselves and put it into the game.

It wasn't a prototype or a concept, it was a fully road legal car - twice (which Evo ran as a long term test car) and it wasn't done by Nissan GB, it was done by a Motorsport team for Nissan GB. The same team that have just made a Juke with the 4wd drivetrain and engine from a GT-R, which has now gone into limited production.

Its something that motorsport teams do all the time, such as the RWD Audi A4 currently racing in the BTCC, Audi didn't make that either.

 

[Hei]

Because its gran turismo not need for speed herp derp.

Yes Nissan once created a prototype car that had a 2.0 in a car x y z.

They are the car manufacturer. They have tools to produce concepts like this. And resources and if GT want you to have this car they will make the model themselves and put it into the game.

Or all the shops and garages around the world making custom cars. Everyone wants that feeling of individuality. You may not like what others like, but as long as you like your own vehicle, that is what matters. Customization has been around since the beginning of automobile history.

 

[nickg07]

It wasn't a prototype or a concept, it was a fully road legal car - twice (which Evo ran as a long term test car) and it wasn't done by Nissan GB, it was done by a Motorsport team for Nissan GB. The same team that have just made a Juke with the 4wd drivetrain and engine from a GT-R, which has now gone into limited production.

Its something that motorsport teams do all the time, such as the RWD Audi A4 currently racing in the BTCC, Audi didn't make that either.

So it was commissioned by Nissan GB who no doubt provides much support as they wanted a halo car to get some public interest. It was a one off non production model.

Not something that a spec driver Scaff can go into his local Nissan dealership to order or go to even a reasonable garage and ask them to make it either. Same with the duke.

They are effectively concept cars albeit working ones.

That's not really what GT is about.

You can customise your cars...is 900 cars with 30+ tuning parts not enough for you? Even if they gave you more it woukdbt be enough and people will still hack like now because they just like to cheat to get an advantage.

 

[The Stig Farmer]

They are effectively concept cars albeit working ones.

That's not really what GT is about.

[COUGH]GTbyCitroen, LM Race Cars, Race Modifieds, Touring Cars, \/ everything Mrsafeway said[/COUGH]

You can customise your cars...is 900 cars with 30+ tuning parts not enough for you? Even if they gave you more it woukdbt be enough and people will still hack like now because they just like to cheat to get an advantage.

Tuning parts. I'm sure the majority of people want visual modifications like a livery editor, or bodykits, or more choice of rims.

At best those 900 cars can be painted a solid colour and have a single generic wing fitted.

 

[mistersafeway]

So it was commissioned by Nissan GB who no doubt provides much support as they wanted a halo car to get some public interest. It was a one off non production model.

Not something that a spec driver Scaff can go into his local Nissan dealership to order or go to even a reasonable garage and ask them to make it either. Same with the duke.

They are effectively concept cars albeit working ones.

That's not really what GT is about.

You can customise your cars...is 900 cars with 30+ tuning parts not enough for you? Even if they gave you more it woukdbt be enough and people will still hack like now because they just like to cheat to get an advantage.

GT2: Renault Espace F1 (not road or race legal).
Ford GT90 (never worked properly).
Quite a few cars that accepted race modifications, several that didn't have racing versions in real life.
GT4: Nike 2022.
Formula GT.
GT5: Red Bull X racers.
Formula GT (again).
Racing Car Pack DLC TC models.

These are just the examples I can remember, I'm sure there will be more. Hacked cars may be a problem, but Polyphony have a history of giving unusual concepts life.

Edit: I forgot the Tokyo Motor Show GT-R R35 without an interior.

 

[nickg07]

Like I said if PD can or want to model concept cars they will. But they won't let you create your own outside of pre set race mods.

After all, let's take some of these ridiculous suggestions and wonder how PD can make it work where they have no base model to work it from..

How can PD know the weight redistribution from going from a 1.6 in a Nissan to a 2.0 turbo? Where is the engine mounted? How high is it mounted? How does it effect centre of gravity or the front end drift?

They would put wider wheels on, perhaps entirely new suspension geometry and components plus mate to new gear box and new transfer box.

Going to even bigger engines create even larger problems.

PD can't even handle the adding of weight for a turbo or supercharger or reduce weight for a titanium exhausr . If they can't do that how can they possibly be expected to faithfully recreate franken cars where your basically creating a whole new car from 2 or 3 others?

They couldn't possibly reproduce it faithfully so they won't do it at all.

 

[Scaff]

So it was commissioned by Nissan GB who no doubt provides much support as they wanted a halo car to get some public interest. It was a one off non production model.

Not something that a spec driver Scaff can go into his local Nissan dealership to order or go to even a reasonable garage and ask them to make it either. Same with the duke.

That would be why they made two versions of the Micra and the Juke can be bought as a production car (still manufactured by RML Motorsport - who will be quite happy to build another Micra if you give them enough money).

Its also such a rare thing to do that my father and me couldn't possibly be having a straight 6 petrol engine taken out of a Series 3 Land Rover and replaced by a TD4 unit.

This kind of thing is not even remotely rare within the automotive world and people have been doing it for decades.

They are effectively concept cars albeit working ones.

That's not really what GT is about.

Nope GT has never had any concept cars in it at all, not that it is relevant as we are not talking about concept cars at all (unless a RWD A4 in the BTCC is now a concept car or my families Land Rover).

You can customise your cars...is 900 cars with 30+ tuning parts not enough for you?

Nope not even close to enough

Even if they gave you more it woukdbt be enough and people will still hack like now because they just like to cheat to get an advantage.

Customisation has nothing at all to do with cheating.