What's the deal with aids?

  • Thread starter Thread starter inuakki
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---Driving Line = OFF (Do all the licenses and special events to learn driving lines , Instead of following a stupid green line round the track)

---Traction Controll = OFF (U gotto love setting Differential to locked and powerslide your way round nordschleife :) . BUT ! ON for some 700+ hp cars, its kind a nessesary with a ds3)

---Skid recovery = OFF (Only for fun "Arcade" style racing mood i use it. But the longer i play GT5 the less i use it, Most of the times its little irritating the feel of the car)

---Steering Help = OFF! (ill do my own steering thank u :p )

---ABS = 1 (Unless u got a full simulator letting u feel the braking G-forces 100% like in real life u better leave it on :p . Braking is done with feeling. Impossible sitting in your house )

---Controller Sesitivety = 7 (the faster reaction the better . but for nascar challenges and some other i set it lower)
 
I will no doubt get flamed for saying this but I consider Srf as cheating, I put it on last nite just to see how much it affected performance and ran 3 seconds a lap faster on trial mountain! No wonder guys can be hard to beat when they switch all the pussy aids on.
 
Just use whatever aids you are happy with.
Its generally the wheel snobs who come out
with all the "I dont use any aids" comments,
generally ......read carefully.....GENERALLY its
the guys with controllers who need some aids
otherwise it just turns into a wheelspin fest without
traction control
 
I don't think thats the braking force,its brake balance,how much braking power you want to send to the front or rear wheels.For example if its f5 and r5 then the brake balance is even and if its f5 r10 then the rear will have more braking power sent to it than front just like in F1 they have the brake balance next to the left knee of the driver and they adjust it quite oftenly before the corners.

PD should create a seperate brake force mechanism ,like the ferocity of the brake pedal so we can adjust on a scale of 1 to 10 how much brake force we want on all four wheels and then you can adjust the brake balance.
If you want to turn off ABS and believe me it is possible to not lock the brakes then try turning your brake sensitivity low,it helps.

It's both a bias and pressure controller.
If brake balance is 5:5 then you have even brake distribution on front and rear. If brake balance is 8:8 then you have "3" more braking force on both the front and the rear. Your example of 5:10 means that the front is normal pressure, while the rear has twice the pressure as normal. 1:2 is the same balance but 5 times less pressure.
 
It's the equivalent of playing baseball on steriods. If you idolize Barry Bonds then you probably use aids. If you idolize Hank Aaron you probably hate them all but admit ABS@1 is a necessary evil.
 
TeamOrecaViper
---Controller Sesitivety = 7 (the faster reaction the better . but for nascar challenges and some other i set it lower)

I agree with everything you said except this. When I'm using my Fireblade I've noticed that I get better times with sensitivity at -2. If I get to the point where I turn to lock then I've already f'd up. Id rather have better control in the range I use than have range I don't use.
 
---Traction Controll = OFF (U gotto love setting Differential to locked and powerslide your way round nordschleife :) . BUT ! ON for some 700+ hp cars, its kind a nessesary with a ds3)

No it isn't. I use a DS3 and traction control slows me down with any car, and I have every Formula car and nearly every race car. TCS = overrated in GT5 and all it does is limit your potential.

- EDIT: I'm sure it is necessary if you're using cheap tires though. :)
 
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Err..
You do realise that the GT-R in GT5 is 'just another car' right?
So, unlike the real life car, it doesnt have all sorts of gimmicks and aids.

In game, if you turn off the ABS it's off, if you turn off TC it's off.
Or am I mistaken and are you talking about the real-life cars?
I apologize I should've been more clear. What I mean is the 4WD system makes the car feel like it has assists. Drive the Lamborghini Murcielago and then the Nissan GT-R. The GT-R feels like it's glued to the road and the Lambo isn't (with sports hard tires). So it FEELS like the car has assists because of it's complex 4WD system.

Why on earth are you playing with people in races allowing SRF if you don't use it???
You do realize that can be restricted to off, right?
I know. But I always follow my friends and whatever rooms their in. 9 out of 10 times SRF is restricted but it's annoying when it isn't. But that's more the hosts fault for allowing SRF if the host isn't even using it. I usually don't stay in rooms like that for very long.
 
I agree with everything you said except this. When I'm using my Fireblade I've noticed that I get better times with sensitivity at -2. If I get to the point where I turn to lock then I've already f'd up. Id rather have better control in the range I use than have range I don't use.

Yes, I agree.
I notice that I find it helpful in adjusting the controller sensitivity depending on the car/course/condition.

Thing is, I didn't really think of "controller sensitivity" as a driving aid.
It's merely a controller setting. And I think it only applies to controllers.

No it isn't. I use a DS3 and traction control slows me down with any car, and I have every Formula car and nearly every race car. TCS = overrated in GT5 and all it does is limit your potential.

- EDIT: I'm sure it is necessary if you're using cheap tires though. :)

I too feel TC is a hindering. Even set at 1, it's going to slow you down.
But you know that saying you have to finish to finish or whatever.
So yeah if it's a high powered car that I'm not good with, or if there's lesser tires on a faster touchy unwieldy car, I'll take the bad with a little good. Just to get whatever done... you know if I'm just trying complete something I'm not that interested in. Like I can care less about some of the races in aspec, and don't necessarily want to spend a lot of time/credits on some of them... but I would like to complete them all. (Sometimes TC can save buying soft tires. LOL)

SRF is another animal. There's less downside to it than TC.
Frankly, I'm not sure SRF should even be grouped in with all the other aids, which are mainly just things a real car can do with a computer in a car in real life. SRF, I don't think is like that. ?? Maybe I'm wrong though. But I think SRF is a different aid altogether from say ABS.

That said, I used SRF in the Sebastian Loeb rally special event... But I still haven't made silver in all 3. hahaha.
 
It's the equivalent of playing baseball on steriods. If you idolize Barry Bonds then you probably use aids. If you idolize Hank Aaron you probably hate them all but admit ABS@1 is a necessary evil.

What is baseball?
I know James Bond but he uses a Walther PPK and a BMW car.
 
James Bond usually drives an Aston Martin, but that is besides the point, because James Bond does not use SRF!

In any case, I tried racing Daytona on the American Championship with and without ASM, and my overall time difference was 14 seconds, which is about 3 seconds per lap! There was no noticeable time difference with or without traction control; Having it on allows you to take the curves more smoothly, and when you don't use it you just have to compensate so that you don't get thrown against the wall.

However, I tried doing the Nurburgring without ASM and the problem there was that if my car went off the narrow road for an instant or even just grazed the side of the rumble strip, it would go into this over steering frenzy that was 9/10 times impossible to correct.
 
SRF is another animal. There's less downside to it than TC.
Frankly, I'm not sure SRF should even be grouped in with all the other aids, which are mainly just things a real car can do with a computer in a car in real life. SRF, I don't think is like that. ?? Maybe I'm wrong though. But I think SRF is a different aid altogether from say ABS.

SRF is different as it actually changes the games physics to give you more grip.
If you adjust your driving style towards SRF you will always be faster with SRF on because you have 30% more grip in corners. Just throw the car into a corner at a speed way too high for it to normally get the corner. Slam on the throttle halfway the corner and voila, much faster.

I think all the aids make people slower than they *could* be given an optimised situation.
I mean: you can turn TC on, but if you would be a real pro driver (not me) and you have a good steering wheel with good pedals in a good racing seat etc etc.. you would be faster with TC off.
Same with ABS. If you are a very good driver with good chair good wheel/pedals etc etc.. you will be faster with ABS off than with ABS on.

That counts for all the driving aids EXCEPT for the horrible SRF.
There is noway you are faster with SRF off than with SRF off, speaking of the same person with same car etc etc. SRF on will always beat SRF off, and that is the biggest difference with the other driving aids.
No matter how much you practise, no matter how good you are, you will always* be slower with SRF off than with SRF on.

*note: as I said you must adjust driving style to much more aggressive with SRF on
 
James Bond usually drives an Aston Martin, but that is besides the point, because James Bond does not use SRF!

In any case, I tried racing Daytona on the American Championship with and without ASM, and my overall time difference was 14 seconds, which is about 3 seconds per lap! There was no noticeable time difference with or without traction control; Having it on allows you to take the curves more smoothly, and when you don't use it you just have to compensate so that you don't get thrown against the wall.

However, I tried doing the Nurburgring without ASM and the problem there was that if my car went off the narrow road for an instant or even just grazed the side of the rumble strip, it would go into this over steering frenzy that was 9/10 times impossible to correct.

Gawd I love the Nascar around the Nordschleife it's like.. so unnatural.
It's like using a Boeing 747 for stuntflying.

You said the difference was 14 seconds.
But you didnt say if it was 14 seconds faster with ASM on or off so pls enlighten :) I hope you mean you were 14 seconds faster with ASM off...

If you have oversteering frenzy I assume you didnt; put downforce of the car to maximum (front and rear).
But you're right, touching the curbs makes the can 'bounce off' those high curbs. The easy yet hard solution is to avoid the curbs.
A way to do this is by making the car steer more accurate. I do that by slamming th car to the ground. I believe it's -30 and -30 ride height for the Nascar in GT5. Also I heard it DOES matter which nascar you have. I have the eehh.. #88 Dale Earnhardt. I honestly believe it's a better car than some other Nascars.

Note: if you take my advice and you do lower the car, be very aware that touching the curbs now will make the car even more bouncier! And deadlier.
Still: lower car, max downforce and stay off the curbs.
 
SRF is different as it actually changes the games physics to give you more grip.
If you adjust your driving style towards SRF you will always be faster with SRF on because you have 30% more grip in corners. Just throw the car into a corner at a speed way too high for it to normally get the corner. Slam on the throttle halfway the corner and voila, much faster.

I think all the aids make people slower than they *could* be given an optimised situation.
I mean: you can turn TC on, but if you would be a real pro driver (not me) and you have a good steering wheel with good pedals in a good racing seat etc etc.. you would be faster with TC off.
Same with ABS. If you are a very good driver with good chair good wheel/pedals etc etc.. you will be faster with ABS off than with ABS on.

That counts for all the driving aids EXCEPT for the horrible SRF.
There is noway you are faster with SRF off than with SRF off, speaking of the same person with same car etc etc. SRF on will always beat SRF off, and that is the biggest difference with the other driving aids.
No matter how much you practise, no matter how good you are, you will always* be slower with SRF off than with SRF on.

*note: as I said you must adjust driving style to much more aggressive with SRF on


I think you're right...
Except about the wheel...

Indeed, I see people with wheels saying they can't turn ABS off for some reason???
When many times turning it all the way off to ZERO helps me loads. And I'm using a ds3.
I've seen people (using wheel/pedals) complain about their brakes locking up easily with ABS off.
I'm good at being delicate with the throttle... but for some reason my weakness is not being delicate enough with the brakes.

I even tried using R2 with an extender... and the problem doesn't get any better. And yet I don't find a problem having ABS off. For whatever reason, many times I can go faster with it off. I don't experience this locking up business at all generally. And so long as I can control a car, I'm always faster with the TC lower... ideally if I can control the car with it off, that's the way to go.
And like I said, I'm using a ds3.

So at least in the case of the ABS & TC, it applies to ds3 in my experience.

Could have something to do with my driving style. Sometimes my bf says it LOOKS as if I shouldn't be able to set the lap times I can by the way I'm driving. He's much smoother than me, but in some cars in some situations, that doesn't make him any faster than me. I don't know why. Maybe it's a case of 2 routes to reach a destination - neither better just depends on the circumstance?
Kind of like how if you watch Youtube videos of people doing the license tests. There may be 2 videos with gold times - but they do different things, take different lines, just slightly, but get the same time. Even though one looks harried & faster in certain areas, and another might look like they're going really slow in some parts... yet they both wind up with gold time.
Maybe it means one is better overall than the other in a variety of situations. But in certain set of circumstances, it doesn't matter.
 
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It was 14 seconds faster with ASM off. For the Nurburgring, I started off with the M3 GT-R '01 and I had just brought the downforce up to max and started the race. Immediately, however, I noticed the problem with the oversteering and so I exited out, reset the downforce to default, and tried again. So that is to say, I thought the downforce might have been a contributing factor to the oversteering. Needless to say there wasn't too much improvement if any. So my next step was to change ASM to on which seemed to help a lot. And at that point I left the downforce at default. But the reason I thought it may have been the downforce to begin with was that with my Corvette ZR1, I had brought the downforce to max and it was good around corners, but it didn't seem to do well when hitting the curbs.
 
I think you're right...
Except about the wheel...

Indeed, I see people with wheels saying they can't turn ABS off for some reason???
When many times turning it all the way off to ZERO helps me loads. And I'm using a ds3.
I've seen people (using wheel/pedals) complain about their brakes locking up easily with ABS off.
I'm good at being delicate with the throttle... but for some reason my weakness is not being delicate enough with the brakes.

I even tried using R2 with an extender... and the problem doesn't get any better. And yet I don't find a problem having ABS off. For whatever reason, many times I can go faster with it off. I don't experience this locking up business at all generally. And so long as I can control a car, I'm always faster with the TC lower... ideally if I can control the car with it off, that's the way to go.
And like I said, I'm using a ds3.

So at least in the case of the ABS & TC, it applies to ds3 in my experience.

Could have something to do with my driving style. Sometimes my bf says it LOOKS as if I shouldn't be able to set the lap times I can by the way I'm driving. He's much smoother than me, but in some cars in some situations, that doesn't make him any faster than me. I don't know why. Maybe it's a case of 2 routes to reach a destination - neither better just depends on the circumstance?
Kind of like how if you watch Youtube videos of people doing the license tests. There may be 2 videos with gold times - but they do different things, take different lines, just slightly, but get the same time. Even though one looks harried & faster in certain areas, and another might look like they're going really slow in some parts... yet they both wind up with gold time.
Maybe it means one is better overall than the other in a variety of situations. But in certain set of circumstances, it doesn't matter.

Well I'm not the best example...
I got a wheel, but I also have a lead foot. I'm fairly agressive with throttle and brake. I compensate by making very very many tiny corrections, and I have to do em very fast because otherwise I end up in a <insert immovable object>

But seriously.
I tried turning ABS off with the Lotus 111R RM on Nordschleife.
I have G25 wheel. I drive on my socks so I can feel the pedals better.
But when I put my small toe on the brake pedal all hell breaks loose, even with 1:1 braking force.
Meh. Maybe wrong car but I think I have the wrong foot.

Still I'm fast :D
 
They're there for those that need them, and it doesn't matter (at least it shouldn't) to anyone else whether this player or that player uses all, some, or none of them. If you suck, the aids are there to help you, like training wheels on a bicycle.

At some point kids want to remove the training wheels and ride their bikes like a big kid. Riding bikes without training wheels also enables them to outperform bikes with training wheels. Removing the training wheels forces you to become a more skilled driver (better), so it's a good thing in that regard.

I love this analogy. Well said.

I will have to add that it should only matter to others if you're racing at the same time. For example: if you're in an online race and one person has Skid Recorvery Force and someone else doesn't. That alone does not ensure that the person with the aid will win, however, if the two cars get tangled up - the car with SRF will come out of it much better than the other car and that's where the advantage lies. With TCS, it allows you to use a hyper-powered machine like a Viper ACR on a longer race without changing tires as often as someone who does have that aid removed.

It's all in perspective. If you're on your own, go for it. Use all the aids you want and your lap times are still valid. If you're on the track with others, I think it's more fair to have everyone playing with the same chips. No legs up unless they are unamimously agreed upon.
👍
 
Merquise
Well I'm not the best example...
I got a wheel, but I also have a lead foot. I'm fairly agressive with throttle and brake. I compensate by making very very many tiny corrections, and I have to do em very fast because otherwise I end up in a <insert immovable object>

But seriously.
I tried turning ABS off with the Lotus 111R RM on Nordschleife.
I have G25 wheel. I drive on my socks so I can feel the pedals better.
But when I put my small toe on the brake pedal all hell breaks loose, even with 1:1 braking force.
Meh. Maybe wrong car but I think I have the wrong foot.

Still I'm fast :D

I think I have a similar driving style. I also use a wheel and pedals, and I find that I will usually have either the accelerator or the brake pedal pressed fully. I've been getting better At controlling my braking, but when it comes to accelerating it just seems like there is no difference whether I gauge it out gradually or start off full throttle. Oh, and I also drive with socks on.
 
@ inuakki & Merquise:
This can definitely be something that varies with maybe use of ds3 or wheel... but also very greatly with driving style (strengths & weaknesses), I think. Making it very personal, perhaps, what aids are going to help or hinder, even among newbies.

I'm super-new to racing games... altogether.
I quickly got better at the throttle modulating. But one of my main problems from the get-go was being too late & too forceful with the braking.
For example, I got gold on 1st try on all the late-braking license tests. LOL

I TRIED to be more delicate with the brake too. But trying every which way, I still find it very difficult to go easy on the brake in the same way I do the throttle. So my way of modulating braking is to sort of stab at it.

With ABS OFF, I don't experience brakes "locking up" unless I'm at least in a pretty high powered car, and on a track with longer straights... and then only if I'm really messing up because I'm not paying enough attention.
With ABS on, I sometimes have trouble with sweeping turns, and sometimes it seems to make the car slow more than it needs to when I don't need it to.
Again, this could be my braking method, coupled with the fact that sometimes I don't get all my braking done soon enough for some cars, because of my late-braking habit.

The bottom line is... whether you achieve something through aids or through tuning... There's always trade-offs.
Most cars have weaknesses, some more than others.
The aids (ABS, ASM, & TC) all have benefits & drawbacks.
The ways you can customize tuning, all have benefits & drawbacks.

The same thing that seems to help one person, can hurt another too much to be useful.

Yes, a truly experienced & savvy player/driver is able to cope with various weaknesses in various cars. They can take any car stock, with any tires, and do well.
But well compared to what?
They may do well in a stock one-make situation.
But I don't care how good a driver you are, there are some mechanical advantages/disadvantages with various cars, that can't be overcome with driver experience or player skill, or any amount of tuning or aids.

And let's face it, most Aspec races are NOT designed to be evenly matched.

I'm not "above" using aids to save me spending credits for upgrades or better tires, to complete some race in Aspec that I'm not very keen about anyway.
But this is just me.

When you're talking about online racing that's a different story.
I take it that in online races, aids are something that are either not allowed, or allowed, depending on the goal.
If the goal is having a fair race among strangers, or if the goal is having a bunch of friends be able to race together even if those bunch of friends vary greatly in playing skill - IE: tuning skill &/or driving skill.
It's a handicap option.

You can misuse handicaps of course.
Meaning that if you're playing with strangers, and the mentality of one of the strangers is win-no-matter-what... They're not seeing the aids there as a method of giving newbies a leg up, to make the race more even & competitive, & fun for all. They're seeing the aids as a way they can pound meaningless victory over newbies. LOL
 

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