What's wrong with me?

319
United States
Colorado
Hello everyone!

So recently I started to do some laps on the Matterhorn Rotenboden track and get do a better lap time than 2 minutes and 6 minutes. Is there something wrong with me?

(If anyone asks here's the tune for my car):

Car: Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution III GSR '95

HP: 375

PP: 483

Tires: Sports Hard

Settings:

- Suspension:

Ride height = 125 both.

Spring rate: 12.83 Front and 11.46 Rear.

Dampers (Compression and Extension): 3.

Anti-Roll bars: 3 on both.

Camber angle: 0.0 both.

Toe Angle: 0.00 both.

Brake balance: 10 on both.


- Transmission:

Stock transmission.

1: 2.750

2: 1.684

3: 1.160

4: 1.617

5: 1.617

Final Gear: 5.358

- Drivetrain:

Limited Slip Differential:

Initial Torque: 5 both.

Acceleration sensitivity: 5 both.

Braking sensitivity: 5 both.

Clutch and Flywheel: stock.

Drive Shaft: Carbon Drive Shaft

Torque distributing center differential: 10 front and 90 rear.

- Power:

Power limiter: 100.0%

Engine Tuning: Stage 1.

Computer: Sports computer.

Exhaust: Sports exhaust.

Exhaust manifold: Isometric Exhaust Manifold.

Catalytic Converter: Catalytic Conveter: Sports

Intake: Intake tuning.

Turbo kit: normal/none.

Nitrous Oxide: None.


- Body:

Downforce: 0 both.

Ballast weight: 0.

Weight reduction: Standard/None.

Hood: Carbon Hood (Color)

Windows: Window weight reduction.

- Driving Assists:

ABS: 1. (Yes I know I'm a n00b or however you spell it)
 
why would it be something wrong with you?

If you mean what's wrong with the setup, then I spot a few things...
-springs seems too stiff
- brakes at 10/10 is a bit extreme
-you need some LSD accel. sensitivity (try 20)
-upgrade to triple clutch for faster shifting
-torque distribution 10/90 is a waste of a good 4wd system, try 35/65
-this car on this track will benefit from as much downforce as possible.
 
et_
why would it be something wrong with you?

If you mean what's wrong with the setup, then I spot a few things...
-springs seems too stiff
- brakes at 10/10 is a bit extreme
-you need some LSD accel. sensitivity (try 20)
-upgrade to triple clutch for faster shifting
-torque distribution 10/90 is a waste of a good 4wd system, try 35/65
-this car on this track will benefit from as much downforce as possible.

So add a spoiler?
 
et_
Anything you can:P
I made these changes:

- Changed Torque distribution from 10:90 to 35:65

- Changed spring rate to 11.01 front and 9.73 rear.

- Added triple-plate clutch kit.

- Changed Acceleration Sensitivity from 5 both to 20 both.

- Added Stage 1 weight reduction.

- Added a spoiler to increase downforce. (Honestly I liked it before. Now it looks ugly.):

image.jpg


New lap time is 1:56.890...what's wrong now?
 
et_
why would it be something wrong with you?

If you mean what's wrong with the setup, then I spot a few things...
-springs seems too stiff
- brakes at 10/10 is a bit extreme
-you need some LSD accel. sensitivity (try 20)
-upgrade to triple clutch for faster shifting
-torque distribution 10/90 is a waste of a good 4wd system, try 35/65
-this car on this track will benefit from as much downforce as possible.
I agree with everything apart from the Downforce. You can only have rear downforce and it won't do any good on a 4wd at this level, it will just push the rear down and lift the nose of the car, this will reduce front end grip and make the car harder to rotate.
 
I agree with everything apart from the Downforce. You can only have rear downforce and it won't do any good on a 4wd at this level, it will just push the rear down and lift the nose of the car, this will reduce front end grip and make the car harder to rotate.
True, but I've found that it still is faster, especially of you also add some rear toe out:)

@LightningLord : I'll have to drive it to know whats next.
 
Tires: Sports Hard
Settings:

- Suspension:
Ride height = Reset to default. (Lower is not necessarily better, resist the urge to slam.)
Spring rate: 30-40% Front 75-85% Rear. (A bit of mental arithmetic is required, or try to use the slider to gauge)
Dampers Compression: 5/5
Dampers Extension): 7/7
Anti-Roll bars: 3/5
Camber front: 1.5 - 2.0 (some experimentation will be required)
Camber rear: 0.5 - 1.5 (some experimentation will be required)
Toe front: -0.10 - -0.15 (some experimentation will be required)
Toe rear: 0.10 - 0.20 (some experimentation will be required)
Brake balance: 4/6

- Drivetrain:
Limited Slip Differential:
Initial Torque: 10/10
Acceleration sensitivity: 18/24
Braking sensitivity: 9/9
Clutch and Flywheel: stock.
Drive Shaft: Carbon Drive Shaft
Torque distributing center differential: 45/55-50/50

ABS: 1. (Yes I know I'm a n00b or however you spell it)
Give the above a try. I've been tooling around with a few mid-sized 4WD cars around this sort of PP and they've all responded fairly well to being setup as above.

Everything will likely require a little fiddling to get right. Most important, in my humblest opinion, are the springs and probably the diff. Make the front springs soft and the rear stiff, you'll need to find the balance though. Workout what 5% of your spring strength is and then increase or decrease by that amount until you're happy. The stiff rear spring will greatly help under braking and corner exit, you'll likely find that lifting the rear 5-10mm higher than the front will help too, that rear spring is going to be busy and it'll need some room to work.

Once you've got the springs, you set your dampers to help further modulate weight transfer. If you've got a good balance on your springs then you won't need anything more adventurous than this. Then camber and toe to help fine tune rotation in the corners, don't be afraid to get funky with the rear toe, nothing wrong with a fat dose of +toe, go easy with the front toe, though. You'll likely find that high camber will be detrimental, start low and work your way up.

Regarding the diff, go read @Motor City Hami's guides, the man talks mucho sense. You'll likely find that if your suspension is nicely balance that you can run Initial and Braking balanced too. Sometimes you'll need to run the rear a couple of clicks higher than the front, effectively making a drag brake. If the rear Initial and Braking are set higher than the front, then the rear will be harder to turn and the front will turn easier. Setting the rear a couple of clickers higher will also aid with rear stability, particularly on corner entry. Accel you want as high as you can tolerate, both font and rear. Once again, provided you've got good suspension, this is what really drives the car out of the corners, particularly the rear. Keep increasing the rear Accel until you get steady consistent slip (tyre turns red) on the outside wheel, or you feel that the car is pushing wide, then decrease by 2 clicks. Similar for the front, but you'll likely find that it'll be the push wide rather than tyre slip that determines this setting and as such it'll likely be 4-8 clicks lower than rear Accel.

I'm sure the above could be a lot clearer, but I know the method is reasonably sound. I have a number of Imprezas that are in the tuning database (and can be found below in my sig), that have been setup this way @500PP on SH tyres, for online racing and they seem to do pretty well. I've also been setting up the Evo TC for a shootout the same way and it's responding pretty well to the same treatment 👍

{Cy}

PS - There's nothing wrong or noobish with ABS1 and I'll happily punch anyone in the eye who says different :sly:
 
Give the above a try. I've been tooling around with a few mid-sized 4WD cars around this sort of PP and they've all responded fairly well to being setup as above.

Everything will likely require a little fiddling to get right. Most important, in my humblest opinion, are the springs and probably the diff. Make the front springs soft and the rear stiff, you'll need to find the balance though. Workout what 5% of your spring strength is and then increase or decrease by that amount until you're happy. The stiff rear spring will greatly help under braking and corner exit, you'll likely find that lifting the rear 5-10mm higher than the front will help too, that rear spring is going to be busy and it'll need some room to work.

Once you've got the springs, you set your dampers to help further modulate weight transfer. If you've got a good balance on your springs then you won't need anything more adventurous than this. Then camber and toe to help fine tune rotation in the corners, don't be afraid to get funky with the rear toe, nothing wrong with a fat dose of +toe, go easy with the front toe, though. You'll likely find that high camber will be detrimental, start low and work your way up.

Regarding the diff, go read @Motor City Hami's guides, the man talks mucho sense. You'll likely find that if your suspension is nicely balance that you can run Initial and Braking balanced too. Sometimes you'll need to run the rear a couple of clicks higher than the front, effectively making a drag brake. If the rear Initial and Braking are set higher than the front, then the rear will be harder to turn and the front will turn easier. Setting the rear a couple of clickers higher will also aid with rear stability, particularly on corner entry. Accel you want as high as you can tolerate, both font and rear. Once again, provided you've got good suspension, this is what really drives the car out of the corners, particularly the rear. Keep increasing the rear Accel until you get steady consistent slip (tyre turns red) on the outside wheel, or you feel that the car is pushing wide, then decrease by 2 clicks. Similar for the front, but you'll likely find that it'll be the push wide rather than tyre slip that determines this setting and as such it'll likely be 4-8 clicks lower than rear Accel.

I'm sure the above could be a lot clearer, but I know the method is reasonably sound. I have a number of Imprezas that are in the tuning database (and can be found below in my sig), that have been setup this way @500PP on SH tyres, for online racing and they seem to do pretty well. I've also been setting up the Evo TC for a shootout the same way and it's responding pretty well to the same treatment 👍

{Cy}

PS - There's nothing wrong or noobish with ABS1 and I'll happily punch anyone in the eye who says different :sly:
Thank you. I'm also going to try this out. Unfortunately I have to go to school so it'll be a while before I say how the tune worked out. Thank you! :)
 
Yes. I need extra braking power.
You need to lower your spring rate to get more out of the brakes, currently when you slam on the brakes the force is being transferred forwards and the front springs aren't supple enough to absorb any of that energy. This means that the brakes/tyres are having to deal with all of the force and are being overloaded which leads to inefficiency.
 
Yes. I need extra braking power.

10/10 on sport hard tires has to be locking the brakes. Turn the volume up and the music off. Can you hear the tires squealing for their lives under braking? If so, the next issue is to figure out which end of the car or if it's both. Do any tires turn red under corner entry? If both outside tires turn red between off the brakes/turn in and the corner apex, I would say that both BB are too high. If just the fronts turn yellow or red on entry, then start by lowering to 8/10 and repeat the test.

The other thing that can be done to see brake lock up is to watch the replay in the view that looks like it is shot by multiple track side cameras. Sometimes you can see which tire stops rotating or smokes (front or rear). Also, watching a replay in chase cam can give some indications. If the nose of the car stays high under braking and you hear the squealing tires, the fronts are probably locking.
 
Racing brakes with 6/5 or 7/6 usually works as I want it to for me on most cars.

If you want a bit of extra turn-in raise the rear rideheight 10-15mm above the front.
 
Racing brakes with 6/5 or 7/6 usually works as I want it to for me on most cars.

If you want a bit of extra turn-in raise the rear rideheight 10-15mm above the front.
Long time no see. :D

On Topic: I always have the brakes on 10/10. Is that bad?
 
You run the risk of locking up your tires, unless you're in a 900hp LMP you don't need that much braking power.

The settings I use give more than enough braking power, enough to rely on at least.

You wouldn't put veyron brakes on a fiat punto in real life would you?

Overkill.
 
10/10 on sport hard tires has to be locking the brakes. Turn the volume up and the music off. Can you hear the tires squealing for their lives under braking? If so, the next issue is to figure out which end of the car or if it's both. Do any tires turn red under corner entry? If both outside tires turn red between off the brakes/turn in and the corner apex, I would say that both BB are too high. If just the fronts turn yellow or red on entry, then start by lowering to 8/10 and repeat the test.

The other thing that can be done to see brake lock up is to watch the replay in the view that looks like it is shot by multiple track side cameras. Sometimes you can see which tire stops rotating or smokes (front or rear). Also, watching a replay in chase cam can give some indications. If the nose of the car stays high under braking and you hear the squealing tires, the fronts are probably locking.

Was this too many words to read or something? This is why you should not run 10/10 for brakes.

As for LSD, I would start with this for Matterhorn:

Front 10/12/5
Rear 10/12/15 Decel at 15 should help add stability under braking for those downhill sections of Matterhorn.
 
Any reason?
Basically you are overwhelming the tyres by applying too much braking force and losing grip. Tyres all have a limit to how much force they can take before breaking traction and losing grip, the softer and higher grade the tyre, the higher the limit. Once this grip limit is exceeded the tyre will slip and have next to no traction until the force acting upon it is reduced.
Think about trying to drive a powerful RWD car on comfort tyres, when you apply the throttle too suddenly the rear tyres lose grip because they can't resist the amount of force coming from the engine. When you set your brakes to max its exactly the same process (except going in the other direction), applying the brakes is putting too much force into the tyre and causing it to lose grip
Try to remember that the tyres are the only reason you stay stuck to the road, everything we do in tuning is to allow those four slabs of rubber to stay in contact with the track. They only work if kept within their own limitations, if you exceed those limitations then they're not working and everything else is irrelevant.
 
@LightningLord, I would strongly suggest that you take on-board the advice offered in this thread. I tune mostly for racing tyres, which can take a lot more abuse before braking traction and I completely agree with the points above about both the spring rates and the brakes being too high. I think you would be better off with springs about 50-75% of what you have now and use the dampers more to control how the car behaves in the corners.

If you haven't taken @CyKosis1973's advice and read @Motor City Hami's guides yet I strongly suggest you do and if you find it too technical be sure to read the General Tuning Guide that @DolHaus has done, it's the one pinned near the top of the tuning forum.

All of these guys really know their stuff and I use both of these guides whenever I run into any problems whilst tuning. If there is anything you don't understand in the guides, don't be afraid to ask questions. Dolhaus and Hami have both put a lot of time into helping us lesser experienced tuners understand how to go about setting up our cars and they are always happy to help.

Good luck with your tuning.
 

Latest Posts

Back