Wheel Locking/Brake Query

BLACK86 · Mar 17, 2012

I run with abs off, i have clubsports too. so ive been trying to get realistic feel on my brakes by adjusting the loadcell and adjusting brakebias in gt5 too. i wanted to exert the same amount of pressure on my pedal as i would in my real car. so in my real car with brakes in good condition and fast road pads, i could get my real car to lock the fronts at just over 70mph, when traveling over 100mph and slamming on the brakes i could not get them too lock up no matter how hard i pushed the pedal....they would lock around 70

so i wanted to mimick this in gt5, the car i was using was a big heavy(1600kg) toyota soarer stock settings comfort softs , real life car was a corolla 86, i know theres a massive weight difference but not too much i can do about that tbh. anyway front brake bias i set to 3 and rear was always at 1, with this setting i could not get the wheels to lock up, travelling at 108mph i slammed the brakes full force and it does not lock all way to 0mph.

so i tried fronts at 4 and yes i got them to lock up around 70-80mph all the way to 0mph, so now i just need to tweak the loadcell....anyway i thought i would try setting 5, again from 108mph i slam on the brakes and they lock up at around the same speed but then at around 30mph the tires turn blue, no more lock up, so i try brake bias 6 and this time they stop locking at around 40mph.

so im thinking 5 and 6 must create so much brake force that it heats the pads too much resulting in fade yet 4 seems to be the sweet spot with just enough force to lock the wheels and keep them locked but not enought force/pressure to cause the pads to overheat.....actually that doesnt make sense as once the wheels are locked they should stay locked?, the only force trying to unlock the wheels should be the force of the tyre trying to grip the road and spin/unlock the wheel. if setting 4 can keep them locked then surely setting 6 should too. during testing i kept the same amount of pedal pressure on the pedal throughout the braking period, and testing was done on flat area of route x

can anyone explain this

genius73 · Mar 17, 2012

try upping the front brake force to 6, drop the rear to 4. with no abs it might seem like understeer. i use abs 1, and a g27, and the brakes lock. i see front tire marks and smoke when over shooting a corner.

MSTER232 · Mar 17, 2012

I don't think GT5 has brake fade, otherwise there would be an option to buy new brakes for your cars. Even if GT5 does have brake fade, it would renew at the end of every race.

genius73 · Mar 17, 2012

fade is only going to show during a race. at the start of a race my brakes feel usless, after one good stab on the pedal, they tighten right up. i had a dfgt and now a g27, and i do feel the brakes working. are those load cell pedals something u have to calibrate?
ps. they look sweet.

Samus · Mar 17, 2012

In a word, no.

genius73 · Mar 17, 2012

this might sound crazy, but are you pushing the brake hard enough. my dfgt brake was so soft i stuffed rolled up socks under it to help feel more natural. g27 brake is so much stiffer it actually flexes the mounting bracket on my playseat when i step on it. load cells might be even firmer. maybe. all i know is that set up aint cheap, and its a xbox wheel by default. theres lots of you tube vids on that wheel and gt5. let us know. because if its questionable, you may have saved me 700 bones.

thedeester1 · Mar 18, 2012

Its to do with tyre Physics. The brakes lock up because they exceed the tyres working limits. As the car slows the tyres regain grip and overcome brake force and you no longer skid....Search the mods Post "Scaff" Hes written about this.

genius73 · Mar 18, 2012

so your saying his brakes are too strong?. and hes locking them, therefore driving right through the turn, with tires locked? interesting. makes sence.

GTPorsche · Mar 18, 2012

Brake fade isn't modeled in GT5, which is why there aren't any brake upgrades either.

Scaff · Mar 18, 2012

GT5 has no brake fade modelled at all.

Oh and when you joined you agreed to follow the AUP, part of which reads:

AUP
You will not use “textspeak” (“r”, “u”, “plz”, etc.) in your messages. Decent grammar is expected at all times, including proper usage of capital letters.

It seems a number of members in this thread think the shift key is optional, its not.

Scaff

BLACK86 · Mar 18, 2012

thedeester1
Its to do with tyre Physics. The brakes lock up because they exceed the tyres working limits. As the car slows the tyres regain grip and overcome brake force and you no longer skid....Search the mods Post "Scaff" Hes written about this.

So how come setting 4 keeps the wheels locked till 0mph, but setting 5 and 6 which are stronger cant keep them locked?

BLACK86 · Mar 18, 2012

genius73
try upping the front brake force to 6, drop the rear to 4. with no abs it might seem like understeer. i use abs 1, and a g27, and the brakes lock. i see front tire marks and smoke when over shooting a corner.

With abs off anything higher than 1 causes the rears to lock and the the back of the car becomes out of control. 4 is way too much especially for comfort softs.

BLACK86 · Mar 18, 2012

SimonK
In a word, no.

Yes while typing the thread i realised it could not have been brake fade but forgot to change the title.

Can a mod change the title to "wheel lock up query"

MSTER232 · Mar 18, 2012

BLACK86
With abs off anything higher than 1 causes the rears to lock and the the back of the car becomes out of control. 4 is way too much especially for comfort softs.

BLACK86
So how come setting 4 keeps the wheels locked till 0mph, but setting 5 and 6 which are stronger cant keep them locked?

Please use the edit button to avoid double posts. And to answer your question, are you stepping on your brake pedal with equal force each time? Maybe it's because the brakes, on a certain brake bias, reach their peak braking power?

EDIT: You have now triple posted in the same thread. Plus you can edit the title yourself. When you go to edit a message, click "Go Advanced" and you can type and edit the OP like when you're about to do a new post. Change the thread title from there.

BLACK86 · Mar 18, 2012

genius73
this might sound crazy, but are you pushing the brake hard enough. my dfgt brake was so soft i stuffed rolled up socks under it to help feel more natural. g27 brake is so much stiffer it actually flexes the mounting bracket on my playseat when i step on it. load cells might be even firmer. maybe. all i know is that set up aint cheap, and its a xbox wheel by default. theres lots of you tube vids on that wheel and gt5. let us know. because if its questionable, you may have saved me 700 bones.

Im not sure what you are asking but in regards to load cell being stiffer, well loadcell doesnt really have anything to do with the stiffness of the pedal, the force you need to push the pedal is dictated by the spring. and i have actually taken the nixim mod v2 clutch spring i had for my g25 pedals and cut it to size then added it to the csp brake pedal alongside the one that comes with the csps too.

So i have two springs on my brake pedal, the nixim fits nicely over the csp one. when the pedal cant travel anymore thats when the loadcell comes into effect more, so when the pedal is at the end of its throw then its the pressure on the pedal that makes you brake harder.

If i havent answered your question let me know

MSTER232 · Mar 18, 2012

BLACK86
Im not sure what you are asking but in regards to load cell being stiffer, well loadcell doesnt really have anything to do with the stiffness of the pedal, the force you need to push the pedal is dictated by the spring. and i have actually taken the nixim mod v2 clutch spring i had for my g25 pedals and cut it to size then added it to the csp brake pedal alongside the one that comes with the csps too.

So i have two springs on my brake pedal, the nixim fits nicely over the csp one. when the pedal cant travel anymore thats when the loadcell comes into effect more, so when the pedal is at the end of its throw then its the pressure on the pedal that makes you brake harder.

If i havent answered your question let me know

To settle this, when you brake to lock up the wheels, is the brake indicator at 100% ? If it is, then we can all say that he's pressing the brake pedal hard enough.

BLACK86 · Mar 18, 2012

MSTER232
To settle this, when you brake to lock up the wheels, is the brake indicator at 100% ? If it is, then we can all say that he's pressing the brake pedal hard enough.

Yes i mention i used full force and all test were done at the same pressure, basically i made the red brake bar fill all the way to the top on all tests.

wont be able to answer for a while as im off to see a potential suitor