Wheel Snobbery

[Juice476]

so people that cant afford a superdeluxe wheel should have a harder time playing the game .

Yep 👍

Just as good as G25

http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/gaming/pc_gaming/wheels/devices/320&cl=us,en

 

[LouTs337]

Yep 👍

Then youre the first wheel snob user i have met here 👍 *cough*

 

[Juice476]

Then youre the first wheel snob user i have met here 👍 *cough*

No reason that people cant buy a good wheel. You dont have to have a $300 wheel, You could buy the Momo for $100 or less, the DFGT $150, DFP $130, DFEX $80 and thats just the Logitech stable.

There are plenty of good wheels out there that are not very expensive.

 

[Juice476]

http://www.compusa.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=457920&CatId=141

 

[Blitz187]

.. and anyone who dosent have a G25 will bitch so much that they will either change the control (wich they already have), take out the clutch or ban it all together.

UUmm I dont have a G25... you dont hear me bitching??? Im happy using both... Didnt feel like spending that much dough on a wheel and the DFP is nice as well.... If I do go expensive... I would like that Fanatec 911 wheel.... That thing looks just a tad better than the G25.... only drawback I dont think it has full support in GT5p

 

[Earth]

20 seconds on google and I found this

http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=10363070&listingid=26084473&dcaid=17902

Just $10 more then a Dual Shock 3?

Then go buy something like this fr $8 at your local department store

http://www.pondsolutions.com/images/ab88031841-take-five-folding-cafe-table.jpg

Then there you have it. Doesn't seem too expensive to me

As for wanting 3 physics, Standard, Pro and Sim, soon, as others as said, controller guys will get upset they can't handle sim physics.

Soon we'll have

Rookie
Arcade
Standard
Professional
Simulation
Pro
All-Pro
Ace
Veteran
Big Boss

 

[Juice476]

UUmm I dont have a G25... you dont hear me bitching??? Im happy using both... Didnt feel like spending that much dough on a wheel and the DFP is nice as well.... If I do go expensive... I would like that Fanatec 911 wheel.... That thing looks just a tad better than the G25.... only drawback I dont think it has full support in GT5p

The 911Wheel is a bit stronger in the FF and a bit smoother because it uses the belt systeme instead of gears like in the G25. It also has rumble and the G25 doesnt. The wheel is a bit bigger and the leather is a little nicer as well. And the buttons on the wheel are a nice thing to have. But the shifter is too tight and plastic and the pedals are very weak and plastic.

So all around the G25 is still a better wheel.

Wheel G25<911
Shifter G25>911
Pedals G25>911

If the PS3 would support it I would get the 911wheel and then just use ACT LABS RS SHIFTER and the Speed 7 pedals. But for now the ps3 doesnt support 4th party stuff, or they dont support PS3?

 

[Johnhannibal]

Nobody was upset or bitching!

PD can make their own conclusions, no doubt they gather statistics from the online races, they can tell what physics mode gets played the most!
Is it more or less realistic, I don't know, I have never driven a car on a track. All I know is I'm having lots of fun on Fuji 750PP with my F40(all aids off) using a pad. So why are the wheel users complaining again?

 

[Biggles]

so its not necessary... but its worth it.

Aagh! You're overlooking my point, which is: I'd rather use a smaller TV (up close) set up permanently with a wheel, than use a big TV sitting on the couch with a controller, or have to set up the wheel in front of the big TV each time I use it (which is one reason why a lot of people end up not using a wheel IMO).

Granted: bigger TV, cockpit, wheel permanently set up is the ideal set-up.

 

[Juice476]

What is fun for you isnt going to be fun to others.

 

[fasternfaster]

Aagh! You're overlooking my point, which is: I'd rather use a smaller TV (up close) set up permanently with a wheel, than use a big TV sitting on the couch with a controller, or have to set up the wheel in front of the big TV each time I use it (which is one reason why a lot of people end up not using a wheel IMO).

Granted: bigger TV, cockpit, wheel permanently set up is the ideal set-up.

oh I GOT your point

My TV / controller are permanently setup in my bedroom. And i dont sit on the couch/bed either. I have a computer chair that i can swivel to get out or move away entirely if need be. The chair is on wheels but they sink into the carpet and the chair stays pretty planted.

Before i had the 32" i tried moving the whole computer desk INTO the livingroom and put in 5-6" from my 50" DLP to see how stuff would look like in 1080p but that was a PAIN and i only did that once or twice... plus my wife thought that i am being rediculous.....

Once i got the 32" to replace my 19" its been great, its RIGHT behind the wheel, and i dont even need to get out of my chair to reach up and turn it off. i sit with my eyes about 3-4 feet from it.

 

[Joey D]

20 seconds on google and I found this

http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=10363070&listingid=26084473&dcaid=17902

Just $10 more then a Dual Shock 3?

Then go buy something like this fr $8 at your local department store

http://www.pondsolutions.com/images/ab88031841-take-five-folding-cafe-table.jpg

Then there you have it. Doesn't seem too expensive to me

Actually $80 for a controller does seem really expensive to me. This is why I won't ever own a wheel for a console. They are expensive and cumbersome. I rarely use the wheel I have for my PC because everything can be done with other input devices.

 

[hamstrings]

Sorry bud but in a way it is peoples fault. If nobody was bitching about how hard it was then the physics wouldnt have changed. And to me from what I have read its a bunch of pad users saying "how much easier it is to control the car now". Wich leads me to belive that it was the pad users who bitched and got it changed.

I don't see anything wrong with making the controls easier and more natural for pad users. They should be able to play the game without paying for a wheel. It has been like that up to GT4. We also got the list of more realistic tire settings.

Speaking of the G25 if it wasnt for pad and maybe some "otherwheel" users complaining they wouldnt have taken a feature away from the game known as powershifting. They had no right to take this away, but because people thought it gave an unfair speed advantage they limited what you could do with the wheel and the car. So it went from powershifting like you can in a real car to not being able to because pad/otherwheel users bitched.

I never used that feature in GT4 nor GT5. I'm not sure I would want to do it to a track car; consequently, I'm not complaining. PD does have every right to take this away (it's their game!) although I feel they went a bit too far when going on the throttle slightly makes the car pop out of gear. The same goes for preventing cars from jumping and the excessive understeer in GT4.

Its a slippery slope, Next you wont be able to use the clutch because of some unfair advantage, then it will be the G25 itself.

That is a slippery slope. How did you reach that conclusion?

Honestly I said it before and agree with you know there needs to be 3 physics systemes. AC, PR, SIM.

I thought that was traditionally how it worked. I didn't have much trouble keeping up with my friends in GT4 with the controller when we took turns with the DFP. I haven't heard my friends with their DS3s in GT5 complain yet.

As for now I will not "look down" on pad users but I will blame them, And continue to watch them destroy whats left of this game.

And when Im talking about the pad users im talking about the 14yo kid who gets on, rail rides for a few mounths, then never plays the game again regardless. Not the people on everyday putting in an effort, those are the guys that didnt complain that just went out and ran it hard and did well.

What is fun for you isnt going to be fun to others.

You're looking down on pad users.

So its less about pad vs. wheel and more about people who will work and put in an effort to get somthing and people who want it to be easy and come quick without working for it.

Its not just Poly though I said it before games have been getting dumbed down since around 2004 right when halo 2 came out. And they took away the health bar in favor of a regenerating health systeme.

I really don't see 14-year-old wall-riding punting pad users as the sole target audience of this game. They've got MotorStorm and NFS: ProStreet. I don't see how PD will deliberately make GT5: P worse just to cater to a group that isn't interested in simulation racing.

You're getting too worked up and finding a group of people to vilify.
Relax and enjoy the game.

 

[Greycap]

What is fun for you isnt going to be fun to others.

Sure, this is directed at a different thing but you just explained it perfectly well why you're seen as a whiner.

While you personally may like driving 400 bhp RWD cars on cut slicks and still losing it at the fourth gear when coming out of a sweeper because there is no grip whatsoever, the others may not. Before the update even the Cappuccino was slippery on S2 tyres, don't try to tell me that around 70 bhp can be slippery on medium compound cut slicks. It's outright ridiculous.

In short, impossibly difficult doesn't mean perfectly realistic like you seem to think. The problem before the update was that S2 tyres seemed to represent the original tyres of the car which is just plain wrong.

The original tyres are in the N1-N3 range, not in the S1-S3 range like before. You can still get the slippery feeling, slap on some N2 or N3 tyres and you surely will have a shortage of grip like you should on road tyres. The S class tyres are sports tyres, S1 representing something like a Pilot Sport Cup and S2 & S3 being track only tyres of different compounds. Almost nobody seems to realize that before the update medium compound cut slicks gave the grip of road tyres, now they give the grip of cut slicks. And cut slicks are pretty damn grippy, thus the increase in grip when using them. If you want the grip of road tyres, use road tyres instead of the said cut slicks. Simple as that.

 

[m00ndancer]

Soapbox on:
As a PC simhead (rFactor, LFS, GTR, GTR2, GTL....) I find the DS3 hard to control. I use my DFP both on PC and GT4/GT5P. I got the PS2 with GT4 on launch day and almost never driven it with a pad, the same thing goes for GT5P.

I like the new tires (I think that's the only difference). And I couldn't care less if the update made it harder or easier for pad users. From my point of view has the things that bothered me the most about GT5P compared to all the PC sims been corrected. Tires now works as they should. And my DFP feels about the same.

When I drive GT5P the same way as I drive my PC sims I have similar feedback and feeling for what the car does. Some cars better than others.

Now the R tires are different types of slicks and S are different maxperformance tires with grooves. And the N tires are similar to the road tires the car has when delivered. The manual is excellent in that regard.

The only thing i do not like is the penalty system, it's not there yet. Some changes are good and others is worse than before. But that is another discussion.

If the G25 has been "tampered" with then it's to bad and I hope that they will fix that.

So, if the game the game/sim has been tweaked to make it easier for pad users? Doesn't really concern me as long as the sim part of GT5P is what I would expect from a good PC sim. There will always be several pad users a lot faster than me and lot of wheel users as well.


Stepping off soap box.

 

[nick09]

I'm a part-time worker and I'm aiming to get a 700-800-ish laptop, replace my DS screen and get a 8GB stick. I'm limited to 1K-ish this summer and I want to grab some DS3's. So I really have no cash or something to clamp the wheel to.

 

[Wolfe]

If Polyphony Digital really "dumbed down" the physics to make it easier for controller users, it's entirely PD's fault. No matter how realistic a game is, a controller's input has to be filtered (as opposed to the direct, 1-to-1 input from a 900-degree wheel like the DFP or G25). Otherwise, a tap of the stick would lead to a sudden and immediate shift to full-lock steering and back again, resulting in a brief moment of extreme understeer and wearing down the tires excessively. Instead, games are programmed so that when you tilt the stick, the wheel responds at a pre-determined rate, rotating slowly and providing more predictable handling. Game developers know this and utilize it in all console racing games.

If you set this filter up correctly (using algorithms that monitor the speed and motion of the car and try to predict where the player wants to go, not unlike a modern car's stability control system), even the world's most realistic physics simulation wouldn't be too much for a controller user to handle. The trick is to also make it so that the controller user can make mistakes and feel like they have complete control of the car, which is still possible with ultra-realistic physics. If PD took the lazy route and modified the physics, then shame on them. As consumers you guys deserve better.

 

[Jay]

If Polyphony Digital really "dumbed down" the physics to make it easier for controller users, it's entirely PD's fault.

Well from my experiences so far since the update it doesn't seem they "dumbed down" the physics at all, just seems the tyres we are all used to driving on normally (S tyres) have a lot of extra grip reducing much of the difficulty novices or Sixaxis/ds3 users have.


Official word from Sony just prior to the update

"Improved controllability when using S1-S3, and R1-R3 tyres."

N tyres have not been touched.

 

[D0wNFoRc3_]

I myself have never thought people 'look down' on them because they dont have a wheel.

i remember putting lap times on fuji with the f1 car before the ps3 had come out with superhero_wally and being amazing at the control he has with the controller. i had a wheel at the time. and its time like that i hope certain people dont get a wheel.
ive been racing Thanos-GTLMsquad alot lately and christ its a lesson in how to use the wheel. you come out humbled every race.