Wheels, pedals and shifters.

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fubar214

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fubar214
I've been playing the series since GT3. I honestly consider myself to be an advanced player but I feel like I've reached the limits of what a controller can do for me. To keep this short, I'll tell you exactly what I'm looking for.

All in all I'm looking to spend between $200-250 just because I can't justify spending an insane amount of money on accessories for a video game.

I want a wheel with good/realistic feedback. I also want the same from my pedals and shifter. As far as a rig or stand to hold it all together, I can do that myself.

I also have a few other questions. How well is the clutch simulated in GT5? Is it simulated by a good/bad gear change or can you actually stall and jerk the car? Also, I'm thinking about the really fast cars here such as F1 cars and racing cars. Is there a wheel that also has flappy paddles that can be used as an option? Going through gear changes with a gearshift in an F1 car would seem to be a little difficult.

Summarized:
Best wheel, pedals and shifter that I can get for $250.
I'll build a rig myself.
Flappy paddles an option?
 
Depending on where you shop online you can get a Logitech G27 for a hair over $250. It comes with paddle shifters (used by formula cars and modern Ferraris) and also has a separate stick shifter with a clutch. I'm actually getting mine in the mail tomorrow to replace an older wheel. I don't know yet if it is possible to stall by improper use of the clutch or a bad shift but I'm sure a more experienced user can chime in here.

The Logitech G25 (older model) can be had for $200 and also has paddle shifters. The only advantage it has over the G27 is that you can use sequential shifting as well as six-way shifting on the shifter. The consensus of this site seems to be that if you can afford the newer model, get it instead.
 
G27 for the money does it all.

Clutch shifting in gt5 is a bit slow and clunky. Fun to cruise with, but just bang paddles to be fast and consistent.

Also look in the sim racing section of gtp. Many good comparisons.
 
fubar214
I've been playing the series since GT3. I honestly consider myself to be an advanced player but I feel like I've reached the limits of what a controller can do for me. To keep this short, I'll tell you exactly what I'm looking for.

All in all I'm looking to spend between $200-250 just because I can't justify spending an insane amount of money on accessories for a video game.

I want a wheel with good/realistic feedback. I also want the same from my pedals and shifter. As far as a rig or stand to hold it all together, I can do that myself.

I also have a few other questions. How well is the clutch simulated in GT5? Is it simulated by a good/bad gear change or can you actually stall and jerk the car? Also, I'm thinking about the really fast cars here such as F1 cars and racing cars. Is there a wheel that also has flappy paddles that can be used as an option? Going through gear changes with a gearshift in an F1 car would seem to be a little difficult.

Summarized:
Best wheel, pedals and shifter that I can get for $250.
I'll build a rig myself.
Flappy paddles an option?
Click to expand...

DFGT is a good wheel for starters, but no clutch or H-shifter, although as mentioned above, I don't think they are used much for competitive racing. They are on sale at Best Buy now for $89.95CDN, maybe the same in the U.S. It's a definite great buy at that price and a great wheel for the money. I've had mine for two years and it's served me well.

I just bought at G27 yesterday in fact, have to alter my rig to use it, but I got it for about $230 all in, also at Best Buy. Like a lot of other places, they price match, so just find your lowest price online, take in the web address and they'll look it up, assuming they do this in the States. It was on the shelf for $299.
 
G25/27 is great :)
The only thing is there's no feeling in the h-shifter; no resistance or whatsoever.
(G25. May be it's changed with the G27?)
 
Don't forget about where you attach the wheel. The stand I use is made special for gaming wheels and cost just over one Benjamin. I'm sure you can build one cheaper, if you are handy...or get lucky and have something sturdy at home already.
 
I'm a proud owner of a G27 myself and it's worth every penny I paid.

GT5's clutch is a terrible mess thought. Shifting gears manually and disengaging the clutch while still having some throttle applied just instantly puts you in neutral and messes up the shift completely. The "real life" shifting I do in my car seems to fail a lot in GT5. Interesting is that the H shifter can be used without clutch as well since last update. While not quite as realistic, it still gives you the stick "fun" and in this method is just as quick as driving on paddles.
 
fubar214
I've been playing the series since GT3. I honestly consider myself to be an advanced player but I feel like I've reached the limits of what a controller can do for me. To keep this short, I'll tell you exactly what I'm looking for.

All in all I'm looking to spend between $200-250 just because I can't justify spending an insane amount of money on accessories for a video game.

I want a wheel with good/realistic feedback. I also want the same from my pedals and shifter. As far as a rig or stand to hold it all together, I can do that myself.

I also have a few other questions. How well is the clutch simulated in GT5? Is it simulated by a good/bad gear change or can you actually stall and jerk the car? Also, I'm thinking about the really fast cars here such as F1 cars and racing cars. Is there a wheel that also has flappy paddles that can be used as an option? Going through gear changes with a gearshift in an F1 car would seem to be a little difficult.

Summarized:
Best wheel, pedals and shifter that I can get for $250.
I'll build a rig myself.
Flappy paddles an option?
Click to expand...

Avoid the DFGT as it has very flimsy plastic pedals with no feel whatsoever. For your price range, the only wheel to consider is the Logitech G27, it has metal pedals with different strength springs in each that can be modified. The shifter is a little lighter than in most cars, but you'll quickly get used to it. The FFB is great, set it to 10 in GT5 for maximum realism.

The clutch model in GT5 is seriously flawed, you have to push it all the way down to shift. Also, GT5 will not allow you to power shift (ie; change gear with the gas pedal depressed), if you have the gas on even a little GT5 will throw you into neutral even though the stick on the G27 is in gear, it very frustrating! Most players never race with the clutch as it's too unrealistic, they use the paddles instead, I just use it for fun when driving. You can stall the car in GT5, but it's still not very realistc, & the clutch feels more like an on/off switch as it allows for no slip.

GT5 will not allow you to add deadzone to the steering either, so the wheel will want to oscilate from side to side on straights. This is very noticeable in some cars, & it will take some getting used to.
 
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Thanks to all for the timely responses, I appreciate the input. I've been 'lurking' around this site for a while now and I'm always impressed by the knowledge of the members.

I've read through the recommendations in this thread as well as others that were linked to me and it seems the G27 is the way to go. I will admit that the flaws with the clutch are very disappointing. Considering the quality of GT5 as a racing sim, I would've guessed they'd have allowed for a fully functioning clutch. Going through realistic gear changes was one of the things I was most looking forward to. Despite this, I think I will still be served well by having a wheel as I am assuming it adds a lot more feel to the game.

Thanks again everyone.
 
VBR
Avoid the DFGT as it has very flimsy plastic pedals with no feel whatsoever. For your price range, the only wheel to consider is the Logitech G27, it has metal pedals with different strength springs in each that can be modified. The shifter is a little lighter than in most cars, but you'll quickly get used to it. The FFB is great, set it to 10 in GT5 for maximum realism.

The clutch model in GT5 is seriously flawed, you have to push it all the way down to shift. Also, GT5 will not allow you to power shift (ie; change gear with the gas pedal depressed), if you have the gas on even a little GT5 will throw you into neutral even though the stick on the G27 is in gear, it very frustrating! Most players never race with the clutch as it's too unrealistic, they use the paddles instead, I just use it for fun when driving. You can stall the car in GT5, but it's still not very realistc, & the clutch feels more like an on/off switch as it allows for no slip.

GT5 will not allow you to add deadzone to the steering either, so the wheel will want to oscilate from side to side on straights. This is very noticeable in some cars, & it will take some getting used to.
Click to expand...

In order to change gear with a clutch in GT5 you have to:
Let off of accelerator completely
Press clutch all the way down
Move shifter into appropriate gear
Let clutch completely out
Get back on the accelerator

Is this what you're telling me? lol
 
I have 2 G27 wheels (one is unopened and bought for a back up). I've had my G27 for over a year and love it.

I've done the nixom pedal spring upgrade and the shifter upgrade (makes shifting stiffer). All in all well worth the money.
 
I'd also consider the fanatec GT3V2 value pack. It comes with CSR shiftersCSR elite pedals for 259. The CSR elite pedals have load cell brakes which are supposed to be a large step above the potentiometer based G27 pedals. I seriously considered buying the elites for PC sim racing but instead went with the Fanatec csp v2 pedals. I personally have a G25 which has worked great for me for several years but even with the nixim mod, the pedals aren't great.
 
fubar214
In order to change gear with a clutch in GT5 you have to:
Let off of accelerator completely
Press clutch all the way down
Move shifter into appropriate gear
Let clutch completely out
Get back on the accelerator

Is this what you're telling me? lol
Click to expand...

Sadly, yes! I have no idea which numbnut decided to code a throttle dependent clutch...

Using the stick shift without clutch works fine thought. GT5 then senses the gear it's in and will remain in that gear (even if the shifter is moved to neutral) until a new gear is selected. If I feel like racing a car with stick, this is the method I use.
 
Looking at the shifting in GT5, I find it odd when reading some off the criticsm, when in fact we have the best of both world.
If you feel like power shifting and go trough the gears without even lifting the accelerator, it is all good, just don't use the clutch.
If you feel like shifting like you would driving your personnal car then you have to time it right, lift accelerator, engage clutch, pass gear, realease clutch, reangage accelerator, if you dont time it right it does not work.
After all if you find manual shifting to demanding you can always power shift or paddle shift.
Not perfect, but what is?
Try to shift to quickly in you car and let me know how long your gear box will last.
 
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fubar214
PS3 - $300
GT5 - $60
G27 - $250

For $600 I'd expect a perfect clutch...
Click to expand...

The G27 is as entry level as it gets with a clutch, and GT5 and a PS3 or forza and a 360 are pretty much as entry level as you can get with sim racing. People spend pretty big money to get their sim racing gear together. 600$ is just about as cheap as you can go to start sim racing. Alot of people have well over 600$ just in their wheel and that's without buying pedals.

I would bet that closer to 1500-2000$ is what the average person has in their sim racing equipment when you go to the more realistic PC sims that actually try and be a sim that is geared toward steering wheels and pedals.

GT5 really has no reason to try and make their clutch better. I bet less then 5% of people that play it have a steering wheel and pedals and most of them probably have a DFGT with no clutch.

With that being said GT5 was pretty fun when I played it with a G25. I haven't had a G27 but I'm sure it's better then the G25 I had and that is a pretty decent wheel. The problem of you not having the perfect clutch will not be because of the G27, it will because of GT5. GT5 probably had the worst in game clutch I have played of any game that supports it.

If it hadn't been for GT5 I would have never of gotten a wheel to start with and wouldn't be enjoying iRacing now.
 
fubar214
In order to change gear with a clutch in GT5 you have to:
Let off of accelerator completely
Press clutch all the way down
Move shifter into appropriate gear
Let clutch completely out
Get back on the accelerator

Is this what you're telling me? lol
Click to expand...

sounds like a car...
 
A short shift plate for my TH8RS, shift knob that sits lower on the shaft, and remapping of the shift gates' neutral zones using the the TH8RS utility made using the clutch for me in GT5 much better.

That improved it well enough that I've actually gone back to some of the seasonal's where I can use a manual trans car and re-done the events using clutch.

It's not perfect by any means, and yes other PS3 console titles do seem to have more "forgiving" clutches.

Cote Dazur
Not perfect, but what is?
Try to shift to quickly in you car and let me know how long your gear box will last.
Click to expand...

In total agreement on that.
 
smokey777
sounds like a car...
Click to expand...

It is, but you have to be really, really deliberate with each step of shifting. It's alot less forgiving then trying to shift a real car.
 
bevo
It is, but you have to be really, really deliberate with each step of shifting. It's alot less forgiving then trying to shift a real car.
Click to expand...

That's why I said its not perfect. In agreement with you, but I can use it now, could not before I did the mods to TH8RS.

I don't know how less forgiving it is then real car though, when I miss a shift in my "real" car the gears grind all to hell.

Anyway I would rather avoid one of these comparison discussions, there is no cut and dry answer.
The point I wanted to make is that the mods I did improved the ability to use the less than perfect GT5 clutch.
 
bevo
It is, but you have to be really, really deliberate with each step of shifting. It's alot less forgiving then trying to shift a real car.
Click to expand...

There is no riding of the clutch..... At all
 
I'm just saying GT5 is a great game and it's serious fans put a lot of money into it. I absolutely love the game, it's just that they did so good with everything else then why not the clutch?

And where are my Koenigseggs and Porsches? :(

In any event, I've purchased the G27 rig. I really appreciate all the feeback from those who have responded. Thanks once more.
 
fubar214
I'm just saying GT5 is a great game and it's serious fans put a lot of money into it. I absolutely love the game, it's just that they did so good with everything else then why not the clutch?

And where are my Koenigseggs and Porsches? :(

In any event, I've purchased the G27 rig. I really appreciate all the feeback from those who have responded. Thanks once more.
Click to expand...

You'll love it. Don't get frustrated if your not as fast at first. It takes some people time to get use to a wheel but once you figure it out your fastest laps will start dropping.
 

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