When did driving with the H-shifter and clutch combo get nerfed?

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BlueFG2

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Until yesterday, I hadn't played GT5 in a while. The first thing I noticed is how using H-shifter and clutch combination is now slower. I thought that PD would reward players that used this combination by letting them shift a little faster than in semi-automatic mode.

The problem is that there seems to be a set time that has to elapse between gear changes; and it doesn't matter what you use to change gears, this set time is always obeyed. So you do all this work, and you're just slowing yourself down. :yuck:

This totally ruins this game for me. GT5 was the sole reason I bought a PS3. I guess I better put it on Ebay before Sony does another price drop. Hopefully FM4 won't have this problem.
 
It's because people without a h pattern would be slower.
It would be nice if we could shift while flooring it. But we would have an advantage.
 
I'm not talking about power shifting (keeping the throttle floored while changing gears). Shifting properly with the clutch/shifter is always slower than shifting in semi-auto mode. You change gears really fast, but properly, and the clutch just takes a long time to engage. It just drags until the computer has decided the set time has elapsed.

Yes I'm aware that there are some manual cars that change gears faster than others. Race cars or cars that you have changed the flywheel/clutch to the lighter ones. But even in those, semi-auto shifting is still faster. I just want to drive like the guys in Best Motoring. At least lift the clutch/shifter restrictions in the off-line portion of the game. I can't risk taking my car to a track and practicing fast upshifting and heel-toe techniques. I'll probably just end up with a huge clutch and tranny repair bill. So shouldn't the premier "driving simulator" provide this experience for players?



I know some older cars can't be driven like this, and even most of the newer ones can't take this sort of driving without modifications, but why not have the clutch and transmission wrecking penalties that happen in real life in the game as well.
 
BlueFG2
I'm not talking about power shifting (keeping the throttle floored while changing gears). Shifting properly with the clutch/shifter is always slower than shifting in semi-auto mode. You change gears really fast, but properly, and the clutch just takes a long time to engage. It just drags until the computer has decided the set time has elapsed.
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This is exactly what I mean't too. The Lotus Elan is very bad for it, you can complete the shift (H-pattern with clutch) half a second before it will engage properly. But with a lot of other cars, you can barely notice it, or not at all. Also the larger the change in RPM, the longer the delay. Very noticeable in the Enzo for example.
 
Clutch/H shifter has been nerfed because people using it were much faster than normal semi automatic shifter users.
In real life H pattern transmission can never be faster than sequential transmission. You can get close to it, theorethically even match it - but never go faster.
But there's something about H pattern tranny that puts a smile to your face...satisfaction? Maybe...
 
funny how perceptions vary
I find the H shifter to be very quick and while I sure havent driven every car I do have 310+ cars, mostly race, muscle,exotic, rally, or other wise hi perf cars. As far as they go, the shifting is as fast as I am, and I've been stirring gears for 50+ years, owned exactly ONE automatic tranny car and hated that every day til I sold it.
my only complaint is the tiny stick/gate takes too much finesse to not miss a few gears during any decently long race.
 
to me the Enzo shifts slowly period, paddle shifting included but I actually like it as it gives the car more time to settle

Will27
This is exactly what I mean't too. The Lotus Elan is very bad for it, you can complete the shift (H-pattern with clutch) half a second before it will engage properly. But with a lot of other cars, you can barely notice it, or not at all. Also the larger the change in RPM, the longer the delay. Very noticeable in the Enzo for example.
Click to expand...
 
I have never driven an Enzo (irl) but I reckon that (having in mind all the race-tech in it) it should never shift gears that slowly.
I mean come on, that car used state-of-the-art technology, it should never take 0.5+ seconds to shift gears...
And it's not only Enzo who has this problem, almost all ferraries have painfully slow 1st to 2nd shifts.
 
599GT
I have never driven an Enzo (irl) but I reckon that (having in mind all the race-tech in it) it should never shift gears that slowly.
I mean come on, that car used state-of-the-art technology, it should never take 0.5+ seconds to shift gears...
And it's not only Enzo who has this problem, almost all ferraries have painfully slow 1st to 2nd shifts.
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The Ferrari Enzo SMG gearbox shifts in about 150 milliseconds. That's significantly faster than any human could ever hope to accomplish.
 
iamsupernasty
The Ferrari Enzo SMG gearbox shifts in about 150 milliseconds. That's significantly faster than any human could ever hope to accomplish.
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That's in reality, now check it in GT5.
About 0.5 sec...
 
It's always been like that since semi-automatic technology was introduced. Just think of it as clutch+h pattern is much slower because there are more mechanical things working and human error. Why we still use it? It's just sticking to the tradition and the experience that usually leads to great satisfaction, maybe why I prefer driving stick than automatic in real life. That's the only reason why I bought my g27, so I can still drive stick even when i'm inside the house. The 2nd gear issue in GT5 though is very annoying.
 
599GT
Clutch/H shifter has been nerfed because people using it were much faster than normal semi automatic shifter users.
In real life H pattern transmission can never be faster than sequential transmission. You can get close to it, theorethically even match it - but never go faster.
But there's something about H pattern tranny that puts a smile to your face...satisfaction? Maybe...
Click to expand...

But most cars from the 90's and early 2000's never had any F1 styled tranny or dual clutch tranny, yet you can change gears in the game much faster than real life by using the paddle shifters. I think I'll give FM4 a shot. The flange sound in this game was getting to me already too. Drive the Peugeot Le Mans car in the Nurburgring to hear I'm talking about.
 
Sander 001
Wicked clip. What are the two lights on the tach that blink occasionally?
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In first gear, soft green light will emit from 6000rpm-7100rpm, intense green light will lit from 7100rpm-7400rpm.

In second gear, soft red light will emit from 7200rpm-7500rpm, intense red light will lit from 7500rpm-8000rpm.

For 3rd gear and up, soft green light from 6750rpm-7100rpm, intense green light from 7100rpm-7400pm. Soft red light from 7300rpm-7700rpm, intense red light from 7700rpm-8000rpm.

Shift timing indication, exclusively on the NSX-R.
 
599GT
Clutch/H shifter has been nerfed because people using it were much faster than normal semi automatic shifter users.
In real life H pattern transmission can never be faster than sequential transmission. You can get close to it, theorethically even match it - but never go faster.
But there's something about H pattern tranny that puts a smile to your face...satisfaction? Maybe...
Click to expand...
Of course this point is 99% irrelevant.
Because 99% of GT5 cars do not have semi-automatic transmissions in real life.

BlueFG2
But most cars from the 90's and early 2000's never had any F1 styled tranny or dual clutch tranny, yet you can change gears in the game much faster than real life by using the paddle shifters. I think I'll give FM4 a shot. The flange sound in this game was getting to me already too. Drive the Peugeot Le Mans car in the Nurburgring to hear I'm talking about.
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If your point is "Forza is better" wrong place.
Surely you can do better than name 1 car sounding bad when shifting to base a complaint on, right?
 
BlueFG2
This totally ruins this game for me. GT5 was the sole reason I bought a PS3. I guess I better put it on Ebay before Sony does another price drop. Hopefully FM4 won't have this problem.
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What wheel did u get because I'd sell the lot if it's logitech, if your going for fm4.

I also use a H pattern with clutch, and your right it is slower, that's probably why f1 drivers don't have one! it makes little to no difference in most unmodified road cars. what makes you think forza will lavish you with rewards for having more money than the average gamer?
 
I don't see the point of this thread..... Semi-auto/DCT/DSG whatever you want to call them gearboxes, DO shift faster than a manual transmission. So why are you complaining?
 
I haven't driven with the h shifter for a while now, gonna check it out to see if it different from the last time I did a few months ago.



👍
 
To OP- its always been slower, the real problem I see is that there seems to be more mis-shifts in t N from 2nd to 3rd even when you do it perfectly withOUT wheelspin. I remember what you describe with the delay really bad in GT5P, but not so bad in GT5.

I did all the races in the Miata and world compact car seasonals with gated shifter on my G25 w/ newly installed Nixim mod and had tons of mis-shifts into N for no reason.

I'm taking Nixim mod spring out of clutch and leaving the brake spring in. The clutch spring requires too much pressure at the end, but I don't think that's the reason for all the mis-shifts, I noticed that before the mod.
 
I agree with OP.. I hate how there is a set time for in-between shifts.. and no matter how fast I shift the G25, the car won't shift any faster than the computer tells it to. Also agree with BWX that there are FAR too many mis-shifts. & don't even get me started on not being able to shift when wheel spinning. No power shifting either. It's like Kaz punishes us for using H + clutch. FLAPPY PADDLES NEED TO DIE. Shifting is half the fun of driving.

Sidenote.. the C6 ZR1 with the upgraded clutch and flywheel is a fun one to shift. You can just about get away with power shifting in that car.
 
I've found that I'm faster with a H-pattern than with just semi-auto box. Not on straights though, but the overall laptime is usually faster with full manual. Something to do with decelerating? I use left foot braking most of the time, and I can't heel-toe yet, so I can be quite violent to the car's gearbox in some corners...
 

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