When do you shift?

  • Thread starter Torzilla
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Torzilla

Torzilla

648
torzilla
Just wondering about others opinions on this. When do you shift? When the needle hits the redline or when the tach runs out and the light comes on. Personaly try to shift as close to redline as possible. So feel free to post your prefrence and any reasons you have for doing so. This thread isnt meant to offend anyone, I know people around here can be pretty sensitive, so lets try to be adults and respectful of this topic, ok.
carry on
 
Near the redline usually. If it is a close race I run into the red to get a few extra MPH, but if it's an endurance I short shift to look after the tyres and fuel.
 
It really depends on alot for me. Some cars have a very "thin" redline so for these I usually shift right away. Others not so. If I'm on a straight, I usually shift at the red line but if a turn is coming up, I will let it rev higher instead of shifting up and then right back down. If I'm drifting, I usually blow the tranny. :dopey:
 
Yea it totally depends on the car. Sometimes you need to run well past redline to get every possible HP. In some cars, it's not necessary to rev that high and you can still keep the car in the powerband.
 
I really depends on the car! One test I run was with the Cappuccino RM and I had the fastest laptimes on Grand Valley East, with just shifting up to 5th (last gear) and never touch it again! Not at all just driving all in 5th!

Test results:

  • No turbo:
    • Shifting at redline: 1:26,467 / 1:21,402 / 1:20,147 = 4:08,016
    • All in 5th gear: 1:21,816 / 1:18,038 / 1:16,879 = 3:56,733
  • Low RPM turbo:
    • Shifting at redline: 1:24,352 / 1:20,075 / 1:18,956 = 4:03,383
    • All in 5th gear: 1:18,617 / 1:14,336 / 1:14,117 = 3:47,130
  • Mid RPM turbo:
    • Shifting at redline: 1:26,022 / 1:19,029 / 1:16,867 = 4:01,918
    • All in 5th gear: 1:18,393 / 1:14,484 / 1:14,044 = 3:46,921
  • High RPM turbo:
    • Shifting at redline: 1:20,545 / 1:14,797 / 1:15,323 = 3:50,665
    • All in 5th gear: 1:17,664 / 1:13,793 / 1:13,582 = 3:45,039
 
When the torque/power of the current rpm gets lower than what torque/power would be in the next higher gear.

A strong indicator is when you can "feel" that the speed suddenly starts to increase by a lower rate. That's when the torque/power drops away. For some cars that's A LOT below the red line.

Check the torque/power graph in the settings to get an idea, if you have a significant power-drop at high revs. If it goes up until the very end, rev as high as you can.
 
With the Cappuccino, I shift earlier than the redline and it's A LOT faster. I tried automatic with that car and the shifting is horrible.
 
i shift on average 1k rpm before redline
thats how i do it in my rl car when speeding:dopey: to avoid any engine problems
 
It depends on the car. You can't always just shift at redline, you have to look at your car's power band (specifically horsepower, which is the orange squiggly line). The majority of cars can be shifted at or near redline, but there are always exceptions.

If you've got a car which has a redline at 8,500 rpms, for instance, but peak power shows up at 6,500, it makes no sense for you to shift at redline. Doing so will usually not put the tach needle down far enough. Peak power is where your car's engine will be revving its fastest in the shortest amount of time.

It's very important to keep your engine revving consistently around its peak. Let's say that engine's peak is 300 horses at 6,500 rpms. At 8,500 rpms (where the redline is) the engine might only be making 200 horses, or maybe even less. Therefore, if the driver shifts too late, and the tach needle consistently falls to (let's say) 7,000 rpms, the engine will never be able to make its peak 300 horses.

Peak torque = where the engine is revving at its strongest

Peak horsepower = where the engine is revving its fastest in the shortest amount of time.

HTH.

another_jakhole
With the Cappuccino, I shift earlier than the redline and it's A LOT faster. I tried automatic with that car and the shifting is horrible.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure this confirms what I just typed above, although I haven't driven one of these in GT5. I know in GT4, the Cappy's peak power area is a lot lower than redline. Therefore if the driver waits until redline, he/she will ultimately losing speed because there isn't as much power at redline in this car than there is down lower.

EDIT: Matter of fact, according to my notes the Cappy's peak HP area in GT4 is at 6,500, while its redline is at 8,500.
 
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Exactly ^^^

Basilea
Just try it and shift to 5th after the start and keep it there for the rest of the race...
Click to expand...
I tried it, and I approve. I'm going to be doing this for nearly all of my Cappuccino grinding.

I always felt that even taking turns at 5th gear felt easy and not as heavy as other cars feel in the higher gears. Thanks for the pointer.
I'm sure the only reason it works is because it's a light car with the kind of "light car" specs it has. So basically, all that Parnelli Bone has so kindly explained to us.
 
i go by the track more than the car,if im going downhill ill shift before the redline and if im going uphill ill try and hold that gear at or over the redline as much as possible
 
If a car says it has 500lbft of torque at 6700rpm then you want to shift at 6700rpm. And that's with pretty much any car. The difference between shifting at the redline or at the torque peak is minor but still faster. In this game anyways.
 
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I look where each Car has its peak kw (or hp my game is in kw for power).
Is it at 4300rpm and it drops fast after the peak (example Suzuki SX4 WRC with mid-turbo) I will probably shift at 4600-5000rpm (probably later due to the "good" readability of the gauges except when driving in Bumper-view) to get the best acceleration.

The Kei-Cars (only(??) exclusion: Honda Beat) are a good example to look at the Power-Curve and "read" it right.
=> manual shifting is a must.
 
Supra_Skills
If a car says it has 500lbft of torque at 6700rpm then you want to shift at 6700rpm. And that's with pretty much any car. The difference between shifting at the redline or at the torque peak is minor but still faster. In this game anyways.
Click to expand...

If it truly is faster to always shift when the engine reaches torque peak in the game, then PD seriously effed up a very basic part of their models.

You want to shift at the point where torque at the wheels is higher in the next gear. Remember, the transmission acts to multiply torque. When you shift up to a higher gear, the multiplication factor goes down.

Let's say that you have a car with a 3.5:1 first gear and a 2.0588:1 second gear (using ratios from the transaxle in my 951) with a final drive of 3.375:1. This gives us overall ratios of 11.8125:1 for 1st and 6.94845:1 for 2nd. The car hits peak torque of 299 ft-lbs (values from dyno runs) at 4,300 RPM and maximum power at 274 hp at 5,100 RPM.

At 4,300 RPM in 1st gear the wheels are receiving 3,531.9375 ft-lbs of torque (thanks to torque multiplication from gearing) and are spinning at 364 RPM. If I shift into 2nd at that point, as you suggest I should, I'd be dropping my engine down to 2,529 RPM where it produces only about 160 ft-lbs of torque. That's 1,111.75 ft-lbs at the wheels. I'd lose out on a whole bunch of power. Not only is this much lower than the torque at the wheels in 1st, it's lower than the torque at the wheels would be if I shifted at redline.

Now, if I waited until redline (6,400 RPM) the engine is, admittedly, only producing 185 ft-lbs of torque. However, thanks to the 11.8125:1 multiplication from 1st gear, the wheels are still seeing a massive 2,185.3125 ft-lbs and are spinning at 541.8 RPM. Shifting into 2nd at that point would put the engine at about 3,765 RPM where it's making about 270 ft-lbs. Because the multiplication from gearing is lower, however, I'm only seeing 1,876 ft-lbs at the wheels.

For that car, because of the gearing and the engine's power curves (since it's an older single-turbo design it's dead below 3,200 RPM), I'm best if I shift only at redline.

The bottom line is that it's simply not possible to say "shift at torque peak" and have that be right. The right time to shift depends entirely on the power curve of the specific engine and the way the transmission has been set up.
 
100% depends on the car. Analyze the power and torque curve, set appropriate gears, then shift to stay within the powerband. Some cars that have poor high end power you can gain seconds on your lap times by shifting 1-2k before redline. Very rarely is it beneficial to shift after redline.
 
Zenmervolt
If it truly is faster to always shift when the engine reaches torque peak in the game, then PD seriously effed up a very basic part of their models.

You want to shift at the point where torque at the wheels is higher in the next gear. Remember, the transmission acts to multiply torque. When you shift up to a higher gear, the multiplication factor goes down.

Let's say that you have a car with a 3.5:1 first gear and a 2.0588:1 second gear (using ratios from the transaxle in my 951) with a final drive of 3.375:1. This gives us overall ratios of 11.8125:1 for 1st and 6.94845:1 for 2nd. The car hits peak torque of 299 ft-lbs (values from dyno runs) at 4,300 RPM and maximum power at 274 hp at 5,100 RPM.

At 4,300 RPM in 1st gear the wheels are receiving 3,531.9375 ft-lbs of torque (thanks to torque multiplication from gearing) and are spinning at 364 RPM. If I shift into 2nd at that point, as you suggest I should, I'd be dropping my engine down to 2,529 RPM where it produces only about 160 ft-lbs of torque. That's 1,111.75 ft-lbs at the wheels. I'd lose out on a whole bunch of power. Not only is this much lower than the torque at the wheels in 1st, it's lower than the torque at the wheels would be if I shifted at redline.

Now, if I waited until redline (6,400 RPM) the engine is, admittedly, only producing 185 ft-lbs of torque. However, thanks to the 11.8125:1 multiplication from 1st gear, the wheels are still seeing a massive 2,185.3125 ft-lbs and are spinning at 541.8 RPM. Shifting into 2nd at that point would put the engine at about 3,765 RPM where it's making about 270 ft-lbs. Because the multiplication from gearing is lower, however, I'm only seeing 1,876 ft-lbs at the wheels.

For that car, because of the gearing and the engine's power curves (since it's an older single-turbo design it's dead below 3,200 RPM), I'm best if I shift only at redline.

The bottom line is that it's simply not possible to say "shift at torque peak" and have that be right. The right time to shift depends entirely on the power curve of the specific engine and the way the transmission has been set up.
Click to expand...

This is a game. In real life you are probably correct. I say probably cause your post was more then I wanted to read.:lol:
 
Usually I go just a little past the red line, between 5 - 15 MPH past (depending of the speed of the car and the gear I'm in) because the lower gear you're in, the more acceleration you will get, so it is a good idea to got past the reline slightly more me. With a slow car usually I only go to 2 - 6 MPH past the redline in gears 3+, and less than 3MPH with all cars in gears 1-3 or 4. With fast cars, especially the X1 on Indianapolis, I have its Final gear at 3.200 (313MPH max) and get the red light at 265, and the revs will go down if I stay in 6th gear at 279 for more than 8 secs. so I have to shift up at 279 usually. When I get to a corner in 7th gear, (280MPH+) I shift down just as I enter the corner unless I have been drafting, so I don't shift down until my speed in 7th gear is lower than 284.
 
It defiantly differs from car to car for me because some have a short redline to where you have to shift right away once you hit it and other where you have 500 to 1000 RPM after the reline to wait and shift. There is obviously a lot more reason of why someone could shift early or late in a situation, it really all depends.
 
Depends on the car, usually passing the redline, but, i have the bad habit to shift early wich makes me slower.
 
Depends what car I'm driving and the situation I'm in. In most cars and most situations, I'll shift at the redline (unless it's noticeably running out of puff at some point before then). If I'm coming up to a corner and I'm about to hit the limiter, I'll usually just let it hit the limiter for a while before braking, because that's sometimes faster than shifting up for a second then back down again, shifting wastes time.

Then if I'm driving the Spoon S2000 race car, if I remember correctly the redline starts at 9,000rpm but the peak power is at 11,000rpm, and the limiter at 11,500. You can't actually drive the thing without the shift light flashing all the time, because even when you shift up it usually drops the revs to the redline, if not slightly inside it. I love that car.
 
Depends on the car, and which mode I'm driving in :D

If I'm doing hotlaps, I shift around 500-1000 rpm above the car's peak power rpm.

Otherwise, I shift whenever I want to hear the engine make some awesome exhaust notes, like shifting my LFA at exactly 9500rpm:dopey:

With cars that have lots of low-end torque, it's preferable to shift earlier than usual (eg: 6000rpm for the Pugger 908) :)
 
I usually pass the redline to get some few more kmh.
but in endurance I shift before the redline to get some more laps on the tires and fuel :P
 
Zenmervolt
If it truly is faster to always shift when the engine reaches torque peak in the game, then PD seriously effed up a very basic part of their models.

You want to shift at the point where torque at the wheels is higher in the next gear. Remember, the transmission acts to multiply torque. When you shift up to a higher gear, the multiplication factor goes down.

Let's say that you have a car with a 3.5:1 first gear and a 2.0588:1 second gear (using ratios from the transaxle in my 951) with a final drive of 3.375:1. This gives us overall ratios of 11.8125:1 for 1st and 6.94845:1 for 2nd. The car hits peak torque of 299 ft-lbs (values from dyno runs) at 4,300 RPM and maximum power at 274 hp at 5,100 RPM.

At 4,300 RPM in 1st gear the wheels are receiving 3,531.9375 ft-lbs of torque (thanks to torque multiplication from gearing) and are spinning at 364 RPM. If I shift into 2nd at that point, as you suggest I should, I'd be dropping my engine down to 2,529 RPM where it produces only about 160 ft-lbs of torque. That's 1,111.75 ft-lbs at the wheels. I'd lose out on a whole bunch of power. Not only is this much lower than the torque at the wheels in 1st, it's lower than the torque at the wheels would be if I shifted at redline.

Now, if I waited until redline (6,400 RPM) the engine is, admittedly, only producing 185 ft-lbs of torque. However, thanks to the 11.8125:1 multiplication from 1st gear, the wheels are still seeing a massive 2,185.3125 ft-lbs and are spinning at 541.8 RPM. Shifting into 2nd at that point would put the engine at about 3,765 RPM where it's making about 270 ft-lbs. Because the multiplication from gearing is lower, however, I'm only seeing 1,876 ft-lbs at the wheels.

For that car, because of the gearing and the engine's power curves (since it's an older single-turbo design it's dead below 3,200 RPM), I'm best if I shift only at redline.

The bottom line is that it's simply not possible to say "shift at torque peak" and have that be right. The right time to shift depends entirely on the power curve of the specific engine and the way the transmission has been set up.
Click to expand...

This 👍

Finally someone who gets it.
 
Most of the cars seem to have a lower rpm for the peak torque and a higher rpm for max hp. I've always assumed I want to stay between these two peaks. Is that about right?

I know some cars have shadowing hp/torque curves (Lotus Elise), but a lot of them don't.
 
Supra_Skills
This is a game. In real life you are probably correct. I say probably cause your post was more then I wanted to read.:lol:
Click to expand...

Fair enough. :)

My main point was that if cars are truly faster this way in the game, then PD messed up the physics at a fundamental level.

What seems more likely to me, however, is that people don't realise how much time is lost during a shift. For example, if you downshift into 3rd for a corner and have tho shift back into 4th almost immediately, you lose more time by having an extra shift than you gain from the brief instant of better acceleration. Similarly, if you upshift just before a corner only to downshift again, you lose time; it can actually be better to bounce off the rev limiter a bit rather than shift. I think that the "gains" from shifting early in many cars are more a result of people choosing not to downshift for corners when they shouldn't have anyway. Staying in higher gears more often "cures" the problem of downshifting when you'll only upshift again immediately and keeps people from losing time that way.
 
Zenmervolt
If it truly is faster to always shift when the engine reaches torque peak in the game, then PD seriously effed up a very basic part of their models.

You want to shift at the point where torque at the wheels is higher in the next gear. Remember, the transmission acts to multiply torque. When you shift up to a higher gear, the multiplication factor goes down.

Let's say that you have a car with a 3.5:1 first gear and a 2.0588:1 second gear (using ratios from the transaxle in my 951) with a final drive of 3.375:1. This gives us overall ratios of 11.8125:1 for 1st and 6.94845:1 for 2nd. The car hits peak torque of 299 ft-lbs (values from dyno runs) at 4,300 RPM and maximum power at 274 hp at 5,100 RPM.

At 4,300 RPM in 1st gear the wheels are receiving 3,531.9375 ft-lbs of torque (thanks to torque multiplication from gearing) and are spinning at 364 RPM. If I shift into 2nd at that point, as you suggest I should, I'd be dropping my engine down to 2,529 RPM where it produces only about 160 ft-lbs of torque. That's 1,111.75 ft-lbs at the wheels. I'd lose out on a whole bunch of power. Not only is this much lower than the torque at the wheels in 1st, it's lower than the torque at the wheels would be if I shifted at redline.

Now, if I waited until redline (6,400 RPM) the engine is, admittedly, only producing 185 ft-lbs of torque. However, thanks to the 11.8125:1 multiplication from 1st gear, the wheels are still seeing a massive 2,185.3125 ft-lbs and are spinning at 541.8 RPM. Shifting into 2nd at that point would put the engine at about 3,765 RPM where it's making about 270 ft-lbs. Because the multiplication from gearing is lower, however, I'm only seeing 1,876 ft-lbs at the wheels.

For that car, because of the gearing and the engine's power curves (since it's an older single-turbo design it's dead below 3,200 RPM), I'm best if I shift only at redline.

The bottom line is that it's simply not possible to say "shift at torque peak" and have that be right. The right time to shift depends entirely on the power curve of the specific engine and the way the transmission has been set up.
Click to expand...

English? ;)
 

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