When do you think the next BoP update will roll out and what changes will it include?

[K32]

Open topic for anyone who wants to discuss the current BoP and what would make it better, and that also goes for fuel/tyre consumption. Gr.4 is pretty much unbalanceable, so I would keep this more within the limits of Gr.1, Gr.2 and Gr.3. Have at it!

EDIT: I will make sure to update the thread as BoP changes are put in place in GTS (link to the GT website + thoughts about the alterations).

 

[VFOURMAX1]

I think overall GR3 BoP is pretty decent. The one thing that I see that needs a slight adjustment is the 911 RSR needs the final gear ratio shortened up a bit as it does not have the torque on long straights to pull redline in high gear or accelerate with the competition on certain circuits.

On de le Sarthe I was playing around with a custom race with BOP and the 911 struggled and could not even really maintain contact on the straights with the other cars even in a slipstream. Acceleration was just not strong enough.

I made a slight adjustment and changed the stock 3.80 rear ratio to a 3.87 which is a very small minor change but a major difference.

Now the car could maintain with the other cars and stay in contact on the straights much easier. It did nor make the car faster really but did make the car now be able to run on a more equal level to the other cars.

The problem as I see it for daily races where the circuit gives some cars an advantage over other cars and you are not running a series with the same car which over different tracks balances those differences overall that single races need the class to have the BoP adjusted for each circuit as the competition between the cars can favor one cars set up or bop over another from circuit to circuit.

Unless BoP is done for each track individually then you will still run the risk of certain tracks having the majority of just a couple of makes.

BoP done right would actually mean that whatever car you wanted to race in class regardless of the circuit would have a legitimate equal chance at victory.

When I say equal I do not mean all cars are the same as each cars have their strong and weak points on different parts of a circuit but those strengths and weaknesses should balance each other out over the course of a full race between all models of the cars within the racing class at hand.

 

[MIE1992]

I think the big change they should make is in regards to the Megane Trophy '11. They should lower the power/increase the weight insofar that it stops being the obvious choice, but not so that it's completely un-usable.

 

[K32]

I think overall GR3 BoP is pretty decent. The one thing that I see that needs a slight adjustment is the 911 RSR needs the final gear ratio shortened up a bit as it does not have the torque on long straights to pull redline in high gear or accelerate with the competition on certain circuits.

On de le Sarthe I was playing around with a custom race with BOP and the 911 struggled and could not even really maintain contact on the straights with the other cars even in a slipstream. Acceleration was just not strong enough.

I made a slight adjustment and changed the stock 3.80 rear ratio to a 3.87 which is a very small minor change but a major difference.

Now the car could maintain with the other cars and stay in contact on the straights much easier. It did nor make the car faster really but did make the car now be able to run on a more equal level to the other cars.

The problem as I see it for daily races where the circuit gives some cars an advantage over other cars and you are not running a series with the same car which over different tracks balances those differences overall that single races need the class to have the BoP adjusted for each circuit as the competition between the cars can favor one cars set up or bop over another from circuit to circuit.

Unless BoP is done for each track individually then you will still run the risk of certain tracks having the majority of just a couple of makes.

BoP done right would actually mean that whatever car you wanted to race in class regardless of the circuit would have a legitimate equal chance at victory.

When I say equal I do not mean all cars are the same as each cars have their strong and weak points on different parts of a circuit but those strengths and weaknesses should balance each other out over the course of a full race between all models of the cars within the racing class at hand.

Definitely. The gears on some Gr.3 cars are just a bit too long and there's no way that they'll ever come near the redline in 6th (or 7th) with the current BoP. This also goes for Gr.4, the SLS and Cayman (and even the Lancer, but to a lesser extent), their transmissions are just too stretched in the higher gears for them to be any use in race (you end up wasting precious fuel just to keep up with the rest).

Still, I think that there is still sort of three sub-classes that exits in Gr.3 in terms of balancing cornering ability and then outright speed (due to bhp and kg). There are those that just rocket past you when it comes to the straight stuff but suffer in the bends (Mustang/Peugeot VGT), then there are those that are lightyears ahead in the corners, but struggle to generate top speed (911 RSR), and finally there are those cars that are kind of ok in each category by still somehow lack a bit of magic to make them competitive (AMG GT/Viper).

The solution of blurring the lines between these sub-classes would to give the rockets slightly less power, but also less weight (so that they become viable for shorter circuits - note: some are already pretty good for now, like the GT-R, but the Mustang struggles to stay planted through a corner, so it really comes down to how the car handles kerbs and how stable it is overall), the agile cars some more power and more weight (so that they're still usable for the twisty bits, but are now able to hold their ground on straights), while the all-rounders get a touch of both (and by "touch" I mean minuscule, just to make them feel a tad more lively)

 

[VFOURMAX1]

Definitely. The gears on some Gr.3 cars are just a bit too long and there's no way that they'll ever come near the redline in 6th (or 7th) with the current BoP.

For the 911 what I was finding was not as much a actual top speed problem because the car would not reach red line in high gear was the car did not possess enough torque to overcome the aero drag and weight and was an acceleration problem of not being capable to at least maintain a reasonable acceleration rate as compared to the competitor cars on the long straights.

If the car was still able to match the basic acceleration rate of the other cars that would have at least allowed the 911 to remain in contact while in a slipstream but on this track with such long straights in stock BoP trim even being and remaining in the slipstream was difficult at best, almost not possible.

Most tracks I find the 911 strengths will offset the weaknesses(of course the last bop adjustment hurt the car to a degree) but this is where I think the main problem exist.

Regardless depending on which circuit and which car when you use a single BoP class standard for all tracks, certain tracks will favor certain cars, just the nature of the beast.

Fine when a single BoP standard is used across a series that utilizes the drivers having to use the same car across multiple circuits with different attributes as where one car may be strong on track A, another it may be track B while it is track C for even another make.

The whole thing is that the variety of the circuits encountered will balance the makes out over a series of tracks that are different.

Daily races do not possess that variety and each day a class runs on one circuit only.

For that scenario to be balanced as far as BoP across the board at one circuit among all the cars within a racing class the BoP standards need to be set independently for each car for each individual circuit. Otherwise there will remain tracks that certain cars cannot be used and expected to be competitive with class.

This to me is not a proper application of what BoP is for. And yes having races that are based strictly on only racing one track and individual results of that race is all that matters does require all cars to be EQUAL in BoP to all cars in the class.

Actually in GR3 personally the Corvette would probably be my choice as a car I would use overall on most circuits while we only have one Standard that covers all circuits.

 

[sturk0167]

It would be nice if there were some AWD cars in group 3.

 

[DC2_Evan]

I find the gr4 and 3 BoP to be fairly good. Like others have said, it's a single bop adjustment for all tracks rather than adjusting bop per track per car. It will make some choices more obvious than others, at least in sport mode. I find in lobbies that there is a far better spread of cars, at least with gr4. Personally, I change car with every race in lobby racing to see how I stack up against the other drivers and if the bop system is halfway decent. I don't do much gr3 racing anymore, but I find it to be fairly balanced, with the Corvette being good and consistent pretty much everywhere.

 

[Alpha Cipher]

It would be nice if there were some AWD cars in group 3.

No.

Like VFOURMAX said, Gr. 3 is really balanced. The cars you mentioned that are ok but lack that magic to make them truly competitive have an advantage in their consiistency, making them stable "mid-field" choices for all tracks. Mid-field not in the way that they're only for the mid-field, but rather a viable choice because they're not a master of one but rather a jack of all trades, and extra consistency will help in longer races

Gr. 4 is actually quite balanced if you look at it, especially considering how jumbled the drivetrains are. If you can just nerf the Trophy like MIE said, it would be at the same level of balance as Gr. 3

I don't think we even need to talk about Gr. 2, they're so perfectly balanced already (BoP even just retaind their stock value)

Gr. 1 needs the most work (And seperate damn Group C from it), but I don't think PD gives any second thought into balancing that class at all since the only BoP adjustments we ever saw was when they added new cars into the class, save for the oddball power nerf to the L750R that was never even used

 

[Tou2istTrophy]

It would be nice if there were some AWD cars in group 3.

*waits for Gregor to appear*

 

[Sander 001]

The McLaren 650GT3 needs better gearbox ratios and better suspension setup!

 

[Pfei]

It would be nice if there were some AWD cars in group 3.

I was under the impression that GT3 cars are RWD-only as per the rules.

 

[bmxmitch]

It would be enough if they just do a quick hot-fix for the Megane. This thing ruins Gr.4 completely (and more so, the people using it).

Everything else seems to be 95% fine. Some buffs for the McLarens, Huracan GT3 and maybe the SLS's

 

[R10tz0r]

I would like to see lighter fuel usage on the Supra, thing is a bit of a thirsty boi!

 

[KONTRAone]

Everything else seems to be 95% fine. Some buffs for the McLarens, Huracan GT3 and maybe the SLS's

And my scirroco needs a power bump as well. I'm getting left for dead in the straights

 

[SjefGielen]

And my scirroco needs a power bump as well. I'm getting left for dead in the straights

:-)
That's the nature of that car, it's like Jeremy Clarkson said after the Top Gear test of the Scirocco:
It's a VW Golf with a different body, but it performs like a Golf.

 

[Hossnight1]

It would be enough if they just do a quick hot-fix for the Megane. This thing ruins Gr.4 completely (and more so, the people using it).

Everything else seems to be 95% fine. Some buffs for the McLarens, Huracan GT3 and maybe the SLS's

10000 % agree for the Megane Trophy !

 

[ceres2000]

Both the SLS Gr4 and the AMG GT3 need a buff. They've gone from competitive to total rubbish.

Also the Megane Trophy 11 needs a fix Asap.

 

[bmxmitch]

Both the SLS Gr4 and the AMG GT3 need a buff. They've gone from competitive to total rubbish.

Also the Megane Trophy 11 needs a fix Asap.

I did surpisingly well with the Gr.4 SLS at Monza the other day. Could keep up with most Veyrons and got 2nd in the end.
Also, the AMG GT3 is now as weak as the SLS GT3. They really need a little love from PD.
And I forgot the Aston Martin, they are pretty much never seen on track...

 

[jagenigma]

Definitely. The gears on some Gr.3 cars are just a bit too long and there's no way that they'll ever come near the redline in 6th (or 7th) with the current BoP. This also goes for Gr.4, the SLS and Cayman (and even the Lancer, but to a lesser extent), their transmissions are just too stretched in the higher gears for them to be any use in race (you end up wasting precious fuel just to keep up with the rest).

Still, I think that there is still sort of three sub-classes that exits in Gr.3 in terms of balancing cornering ability and then outright speed (due to bhp and kg). There are those that just rocket past you when it comes to the straight stuff but suffer in the bends (Mustang/Peugeot VGT), then there are those that are lightyears ahead in the corners, but struggle to generate top speed (911 RSR), and finally there are those cars that are kind of ok in each category by still somehow lack a bit of magic to make them competitive (AMG GT/Viper).

The solution of blurring the lines between these sub-classes would to give the rockets slightly less power, but also less weight (so that they become viable for shorter circuits - note: some are already pretty good for now, like the GT-R, but the Mustang struggles to stay planted through a corner, so it really comes down to how the car handles kerbs and how stable it is overall), the agile cars some more power and more weight (so that they're still usable for the twisty bits, but are now able to hold their ground on straights), while the all-rounders get a touch of both (and by "touch" I mean minuscule, just to make them feel a tad more lively)

The F-Type is also in the balanced category to, where as it's great at handling but lacking in any real shine because its bogged down by lack of top speed.

 

[sturk0167]

I was under the impression that GT3 cars are RWD-only as per the rules.

I understand that FIA has rules for their car classes. Where I'm coming from is an issue of driveability for me, personally. I can't spend the money on a wheel and pedal setup, so I'm stuck with a controller. I never got comfortable using the L2/R2 for gas and brake. Therefore, I use X and square buttons, which means full throttle and full brakes. Full throttle with an AWD car is fine. With RWD, I have to have the TCS at 2, which, of course slows me down. I don't mean to subvert the class rules, just hoping to be competitive in GR3. I assume there's a lot of other people in the same boat.

 

[OutlawQuadrnt]

The F-Type is also in the balanced category to, where as it's great at handling but lacking in any real shine because its bogged down by lack of top speed.

I want the F-Type you're driving. The Gr4 is sluggish in corners and the Gr3 is about average. The only notable advantage is defending/attacking on long straights with top speed. The Gr4 was strong in Tokyo and I'm hoping the Jag will eat up Le Mans.

I'm 60/40 that we've seen the last of any BOP changes for the season. Technically, they should be allowed to under their TOS but it's the type of change that could stir up legal trouble in some jurisdictions anyways to where it's not worth the risk.

 

[KONTRAone]

I understand that FIA has rules for their car classes. Where I'm coming from is an issue of driveability for me, personally. I can't spend the money on a wheel and pedal setup, so I'm stuck with a controller. I never got comfortable using the L2/R2 for gas and brake. Therefore, I use X and square buttons, which means full throttle and full brakes. Full throttle with an AWD car is fine. With RWD, I have to have the TCS at 2, which, of course slows me down. I don't mean to subvert the class rules, just hoping to be competitive in GR3. I assume there's a lot of other people in the same boat.

I get where you're coming from but an AWD car in gr. 3 will never happen. Your best bet is to start learning to use the triggers for brake and throttle. The x and square may have worked in older titles and on older controllers with pressure sensitivity, but the increased realism on newer titles makes throttle and brake modulation vital to overall performance.

 

[DriftMethod]

I want the F-Type you're driving. The Gr4 is sluggish in corners and the Gr3 is about average. The only notable advantage is defending/attacking on long straights with top speed. The Gr4 was strong in Tokyo and I'm hoping the Jag will eat up Le Mans.

I'm 60/40 that we've seen the last of any BOP changes for the season. Technically, they should be allowed to under their TOS but it's the type of change that could stir up legal trouble in some jurisdictions anyways to where it's not worth the risk.

Interesting. Never thought about a BoP causing legal issues.

I would be surprised if PD does a BoP that affects the FIA Manufacturers Championship. Everyone got to pick their Manufacturers contracts based on the current version of BoP, so would be quite upsetting to a lot of people if they adjusted before the end of the final season.

My guess is that there will be some sort of surprise for the FIA races, but hope it will be something like a new track for one of the final season races.

 

[jagenigma]

I want the F-Type you're driving. The Gr4 is sluggish in corners and the Gr3 is about average. The only notable advantage is defending/attacking on long straights with top speed. The Gr4 was strong in Tokyo and I'm hoping the Jag will eat up Le Mans.

I'm 60/40 that we've seen the last of any BOP changes for the season. Technically, they should be allowed to under their TOS but it's the type of change that could stir up legal trouble in some jurisdictions anyways to where it's not worth the risk.

There is a Gr3 tune for it somewhere in the Tuning section of the forums which made the GR3 really good at handling. I forgot who had it though. A search will bring it up.

 

[Tidgney]

Hopefully they'll sort out group 4 because the BoP is pretty shocking at the moment.. which gets even worse in race trim!

 

[KONTRAone]

Hopefully they'll sort out group 4 because the BoP is pretty shocking at the moment.. which gets even worse in race trim!

Indeed. For example, the Citroen is way to quick to be as good as it is on fuel, the Magane needs a TON of weight and more power to even out cornering and straight line speed, the wrx and scirroco need more power, and the Viper is still just a bit too good IMO.
I must say however that it has been slowly improving so I'm sure that we'll get there eventually.

 

[OutlawQuadrnt]

Interesting. Never thought about a BoP causing legal issues.

I would be surprised if PD does a BoP that affects the FIA Manufacturers Championship. Everyone got to pick their Manufacturers contracts based on the current version of BoP, so would be quite upsetting to a lot of people if they adjusted before the end of the final season.

My guess is that there will be some sort of surprise for the FIA races, but hope it will be something like a new track for one of the final season races.

It dawned on me when I realized that our choice for manufacturer is locked for the season. Granted, some of us based our decisions in anticipation of future BOP changes but I can see many people who used the current BOP as their basis. Any change in the BOP between now and the Final and one could argue that it alters someone's chances of winning with no chance to switch. It wasn't an issue in the past because there was no actual award other than recognition. With real prizes of monetary value at stake, however, certain jurisdictions may give participants recourse regardless of what the TOS says. Not saying that we won't see a BOP change but I wouldn't rule out someone taking legal action because of it.

There is a Gr3 tune for it somewhere in the Tuning section of the forums which made the GR3 really good at handling. I forgot who had it though. A search will bring it up.

A tune would be nice if Sports mode allowed it. As it stands, the GR3 car isn't that bad but its lap times are always a bit behind I can do in other cars.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

I would be surprised if PD does a BoP that affects the FIA Manufacturers Championship.

You may be right but then again they did make a big deal out of being careful in choosing who you signed with as you would not be able to change through the end of 2018.

Almost like it was 'go ahead and pick the fastest cars now if you want because they may not be the fastest at the end sort of challenge or insinuation. Never can tell about PD!

One thing is that the manufacturers championship will give them the opportunity to amass a lot of performance data from the top drivers in the game over all the cars and across multiple circuits that at the very least should if the data is applied correctly result in some very good and balanced overall BoP settings after the championship concludes.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

It dawned on me when I realized that our choice for manufacturer is locked for the season. Granted, some of us based our decisions in anticipation of future BOP changes but I can see many people who used the current BOP as their basis. Any change in the BOP between now and the Final and one could argue that it alters someone's chances of winning with no chance to switch. It wasn't an issue in the past because there was no actual award other than recognition. With real prizes of monetary value at stake, however, certain jurisdictions may give participants recourse regardless of what the TOS says. Not saying that we won't see a BOP change but I wouldn't rule out someone taking legal action because of it.

Another thought or direction to consider as a possibility on this issue,

Basically since this is a FIA associated event could it not be possibly considered as FIA sanctioned?

Since the FIA on a regular basis alters and adjust or changes the BoP specifications in its real world sanctioned races as a regular part of balancing the competition levels between the different manufacturers and these Championships are being represented as being an E-Sport version of the FIA series then,
would that not possibly open up the adjusting of the BoP settings during the course of the championship would be a normal and regular occurrence of adjustment in the interest of balanced performance and therefore be legal and there would be no way to dispute the changes as a competitor?

 

[OutlawQuadrnt]

Another thought or direction to consider as a possibility on this issue,

Basically since this is a FIA associated event could it not be possibly considered as FIA sanctioned?

Since the FIA on a regular basis alters and adjust or changes the BoP specifications in its real world sanctioned races as a regular part of balancing the competition levels between the different manufacturers and these Championships are being represented as being an E-Sport version of the FIA series then,
would that not possibly open up the adjusting of the BoP settings during the course of the championship would be a normal and regular occurrence of adjustment in the interest of balanced performance and therefore be legal and there would be no way to dispute the changes as a competitor?

Hmmm. That's an interesting way to look at it. I suppose it comes down to how the law would treat e-sports in a specific jurisdiction, if it's even addressed at all. My gut feeling is that it will be seen like a skill-based game show in the States.

As a joke but possibly not, if it is an FIA associated event, you would think that the manufacturers themselves would be clamoring for BOP changes.