Where Did GT2 Fail?

[Korndawg]

the speed 12 doesnt suck, it just needs to be tuned perfectly to work well

 

[Korndawg]

20. Earning gold. Some of the license tests are way too easy. Others take hours, if not days to conquer.
.

i think ive achieved the extreme in this, i have nowhere else to post it without starting a new thread so yeah... for example, the rally tests are way too easy, i think ive beat the one in the S License by nearly 15 seconds, but then the test in IC (yes the camaro blind corners one) i NEVER beat since the time i got the game nearly 5 years ago, until a week ago - yay

 

[Pupik]

for example, the rally tests are way too easy, i think ive beat the one in the S License by nearly 15 seconds

The PAL version fixed this "error". I'm quite alright with it, though!

 

[Korndawg]

lol yeah it seems to be a nice confidence booster when im feeling sucky

 

[Parnelli Bone]

That Camaro blind corner test is absolutely atrocious. Same thing with A4 in the Toyota Altezza. I can't tell you how many times I ran these 2 tests, smashing my X button in frustration so the STUPID COMPUTER HURRIES UP AND I CAN TAKE THE TEST AGAIN and NO I DONT' WANNA SEEE THE FRICKIN REPLAY!!

Just last week at my job I changed the oil in a Lexus IS200 (same as Altezza, just American) and I felt the urge to just drive it into a wall. But I didn't.

Studying zen helps with those tests. Calm calm calm no worries just another try...also reading other people's frustrations on the 'net with certain tests made me not feel like such a loser!

 

[flamingwonky]

That Camaro blind corner test is absolutely atrocious. Same thing with A4 in the Toyota Altezza. I can't tell you how many times i ran these 2 tests, smashing my X button in frustration so the STUPID COMPUTER HURRIES UP AND I CAN TAKE THE TEST AGAIN and NO I DONT' WANNA SEEE THE FRICKIN REPLAY!!

Just last week at my job i changed the oil in a Lexus IS200 (same as Altezza, just American) and i felt the urge to just drive it into a wall. But i didn't.

Studying zen helps with those tests. Calm calm calm no worries just another try...also reading other people's frustrations on the 'net with certain tests made me not feel like such a loser!

Hey, Parnelli. I haven't been on here, forever. Nice, but somewhat disturbing to see that you still meddle with infantile little hickups of Sony's gaming francise.

You mention your job being to change oil. Was it you who wanted a job as a mechanic some time ago, or am I confused? If it was, nice to see that you got it .

I spend most of my forum time on Gamespot now (although I've been away from civizilation all summer!), but certain nostalgic pricks made me return to this inspiring temple to the Gran Turismo gods...
GT4 Progress - 68%

 

[Parnelli Bone]

I was wondering what happened to you. Also I haven't seen liam2maps, stinky chicken, and a bunch of others in months! Well, welcome back. Uh not sure what you mean by ‘meddling with Sony's infantile hiccups’. :-/

Yeah, I been working as a mechanic's apprentice for almost 6 months now. Fixing tires, balancing them, oil changes, easy stuff like that. Lately I've learned how to turn rotors and change brake pads, too. I love working on brakes.

Well like I said, welcome back. The GT2 forum still lives on!...

 

[dropzone]

I don't take it as a flame, but I'd like to respond to your post of what's wrong with GT2 Parnelli,

my opinions/responses to that list...
1) I never experienced
2) I can't recall (last time I played was before I got my Xbox at its holiday release), I just started this game again yesterday to mess with hybrids.
3) I've noticed but don't let it bother me.
4) Have yet to witness this.
5) It don't matter to me, I'm not that big into Honda/Acura, or FF cars.
6) All I gotta say is dammit man, PS1 technology and 500 plus cars detailed to the best of their ability, deal with it.
7) I couldn't agree more.
8) (look at no. 6)
9) I noticed, I'm not that bothered.
10) Agree that the pop up scenery of the tracks and scenery can make decisions a last minute measure, but you should know that since you race the tracks over and over.
11) I never really cared about setting lap records.
12) Never payed attention to that/never noticed.
13) The HP limits can be bogus, but I always had cars that were close to the limit.
14) I rarely did qualifying anyway. Starting from 6th adds to the challenge.
15) (look at no. 12)
16) Agree with all you said there.
17) I loved that.
18) Agree with the save part. But tuning in the garage started in GT3. Let's try to compare with GT1.
19) That as a BIG miss on PD's part
20) I just wanted to pass the tests to enter the races. I didn't care about getting Gold and guess what, I still don't.
21) Perks of the game I guess.
22) LMAO. It is true. I'm also guilty of doing that myself, but my racing knowledge didn't suffer because of that either. All I play are racing games.

I don't know how picky you are at details in games and what not, but I myself do take note at all kinds of things especially in racing games. Much more now because the new consoles are capable of doing so much more than the previous systems. So looking back at GT2 I might have been relaxed at criticizing it knowing of the technology's limits.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

I don't know how picky you are at details in games and what not, but I myself do take note at all kinds of things especially in racing games. Much more now because the new consoles are capable of doing so much more than the previous systems. So looking back at GT2 I might have been relaxed at criticizing it knowing of the technology's limits.

Actually, these aren't my personal b!tches about the game; rather, they are either areas where a significant number of people who played GT2 had issues (when it was first released in 1999 till now) or areas where PD obviously tried to do something and screwed up. I don't care about typos, car merging, drag racing, setting records during races, or occasional pixellation either. I can deal with the fact that some of the cars look crappy. It doesn't ruin my experience of the game--instead it almost makes the game a bit more endearing since it's not perfect.

All I'm saying is the game has issues--it was rushed into production and it shows. If PD had a few more months to correct a few things (i.e., if Sony weren't pressuring PD to sell it before the Christmas '99 season) some of these issues would have been addressed....and they still would have those 600 cars.

 

[flamingwonky]

In my opinion, GT2 is pretty screwey for such a mass-market video game...
I mean, I had my garage erased TWICE! First with ~90 cars, then with ~50. Aagh! And that's to say nothing of the other buggy happenings and inconsistencies. In contrast, GT4 is much more user-friendly and has barely any errors at all, which is reflected by the fact that it was delayed for a damn long time to get everything strait.
Still, GT2 was one of the funnest games I've played. I jumped on the bandwagon fairly late, probably in 2002 or 2003. I started with GT1 for the PSX (although I could have bought gT2 then and there, I decided to start the evolution from the roots). GT1 was lots of fun at the time! Then I got GT2 (cheap!), switching to it not being my design; rather to try it out. I certainly never went back! The American and European cars, plus the higher complexity, new tracks (I love Seattle), and hubcaps settled it.
Even if it's screwey (and some claim that GT1's physics were better or whatnot), I'd take GT2 anyday for its maturity typical of evolution in a series.

Oh, and Parnelli, I work since March as n00b at a small computer company, hooking up wires, testing equiptment, networking, easy stuff like that.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

That's what I'm saying. Believe me there were surely some execs over at Sony who would have rather released GT4 in December of 2004 so they could hit the Christmas season. Instead, they decided to hold off while any problems were fixed. They learned from their previous mistakes, in other words, otherwise they would have definitely tried to get GT4 in stores earlier on.

FW, I jumped on the GT bandwagon really late in December 2003! And I had GT2 sitting on my shelf for 3 months taunting me while I patiently finished GT1. Meanwhile, remember that all this time, GT3 had been sitting in the stores. Talk about temptation.

 

[flamingwonky]

That's what i'm saying. Believe me there were surely some execs over at Sony who would have rather released GT4 in December of 2004 so they could hit the Christmas season. Instead, they decided to hold off while any problems were fixed. They learned from their previous mistakes, in other words, otherwise they would have definately tried to get GT4 in stores earlier on.

FW, I jumped on the GT bandwagon really late in December 2003! And i had GT2 sitting on my shelf for 3 months taunting me while i patiently finished GT1. Meanwhile, remember that all this time, GT3 had been sitting in the stores. Talk about temptation.

Do you have GT3 or GT4, or a PS2 at all? Since you're still posting here, I guess not, lol. If that's the case, I highly recommend... hmmm... upgrading! Sure, the system's nothing short of stinky at this point, but at least you get all the good games you want, and cheap! That's the beauty of buying a console late in its shelf-life, especially if you're broke: Cheapness, an improved non-buggy system and a storeful of great games. Well, in any case, I'll be seriously considering a PS3 purchase at launch or a bit later. Perhaps I'll hold on to my cash before anything I want to play comes out, though. To be frank, the 360's titles looks more promising: Halo, Oblivion, etc.

 

[Tornado]

That's what i'm saying. Believe me there were surely some execs over at Sony who would have rather released GT4 in December of 2004 so they could hit the Christmas season. Instead, they decided to hold off while any problems were fixed. They learned from their previous mistakes, in other words, otherwise they would have definately tried to get GT4 in stores earlier on.

For a while, they were even touting it as being released December 2003.
Anyways, I don't think GT2 failed in any way. I think it was over ambitious. This applies to the glitches. You say that GT2 was rushed out for the Christmas season, and, well, it is true...for America. Unless it had a worldwide launch, which I doubt, than all that had to be done for the U.S. market is the changing of Hondas to Acuras and the conversion of the language and the units (which, in the case of the units, they didn't even do properly). This points not to not enough playtesting at all, not necesarily rushing the game out. This answer a few of the glitches:

1. The garage theif. Like i said, i've experienced this one several times. So have millions of others i'm sure.

It's never happened to me, but I've heard of it happening. Maybe it has to do with the game version?

2. Sound cutting out during enduros, series races, and even some 3 lap sprints i've noticed. Sorry, this one gets real annoying when you're trying to ‘get into the game’. I hate it when i can't hear my car anymore, it throws me off!

This however, has happened to me (particularly with turbocharged cars). This is why I'm thankful that the chase cam HUD is much better than GT4's.

3. Numerous typos, spelling errors, inconsistent spec & info sheets, random glitches. Go have a look at the ‘post your oddities’ thread on this bb which is now close to 20 pages long!

So? Many many games made in Japan have typos. It's not like it interferes with you're driving. This, however, was a localization issue.

4. Occasional car merging during races. There goes your realism out the window!

But didn't that happen in GT1 as well? Also, while it has happened to me, only when I was trying to get it to happen.

5. One of the Integras has a stock 3rd & 4th gear that are almost identical. Real bad news for Acura lovers.

And really, how can you live without loving an Acura? But seriously, why would you buy the GS-R anyways? Why would you even buy an Acura? Just by the Civic Type-R. This is, however, also probably a localization issue.

6. Shoddy graphics. Some cars look great (or at least as good as the Playstation can support). Others look so horrible you can barely tell what they are, even in the showroom/garage!

This is only due to lower resolution. Play it on ePSXe or bleemcast!. Fixes that right quick. While it is true that it should have looked better on a normal Playstation, especially since the original Ridge Racer looked better and that was a launch game, it is a price to pay for all of the cars in the game.

7. Loss of many key features from GT1 that hardcore fans thought would be in gT2: the variable turbo boost, gearing charts, SS Route 11, Hi-res mode etc. (too many to mention here, basically).

Got me there.

8. Many cars sound the same. There's no way they sampled 600 exhaust pipes. It really gets bad when you hop in a Subaru wagon and notice it has the same sample as a PLymouth Superbird!

Space limitations? It already was two discs. What I find odd, though, which makes your claim substancial, is the fact that the game sounded better earlier in it's life cycle.

9. The game designers never programmed underparts. You can lower your car all the way and you'll never bottom out over those bumps.

And GT3 and GT1 were the same way. GT4 is the only one that notcibly fixes that.

10. Heavy pixellation of backgrounds during race replays at times, not to mention plenty of scenery pop-up. Sometimes, it's difficult to gauge when to start into a corner the graphics get so crappy.

Again, lower resolution and hardware limitations. Replay mode taxes the CPU more than an actual race does.

11. Lots of people hated the fact that lap records were no longer recorded during races like they were in gT1. Instead, you have to fire up the Arcade disc to set a record.

Got me there aswell.

12. Enduros & tire wear. It doesn't matter if you use supersoft or hard tires, they pretty much wear out at a similar rate, making pre-race tire strategy not so important.

Again, got me.

13. As Gil says below, GT2 introduced horsepower limits, which in most cases are bogus. most times you can enter a race with 50 to 200 hp LESS than the limit and still win. 2 exceptions are the 2nd Historic race @ Rome and the Event Generator.

'Tis better than being allowed to enter every race with the Escudo, I would say. And what about the other races you get your arse handed to you with cars at the HP limit, like MR race 3?

14. No qualifying. You always start in 6th place.

Got me again.

15. Rome Nite only available as a random track or on the Arcade disc, as Gil noted. It's arguably the best-looking new course in GT2 but you can barely use it. Some folks may include Motorsport Land and Autumn Mini here, too.

True, yes. Damn, I was hoping I wouldn't concede this many points.

16. Drag racing and mph/kph conversion promised in pre-GT2 hype as well as mentioned in the booklet but were not included in the game. Go the bulletin board on granturismoforum.com and you can read hundreds of posts from people: ‘where is drag racing?’ over and over. Clearly lots of people were not happy about this, tho personally i don't care.

True about the first point, but not the second. The PAL version had the MPH/KMH conversion. Of course, I don't care about drag racing either. Only game that ever did that right anyways was Test Drive 5.

17. Random used car lot only featured in East City.

So? I happen to think $11,000 for a '67 Mercury Cougar is quite cheap. As is the $30,000 for an Aston Martin DB6. Besides, there aren't many non-Japanese used cars anyways.

18. As Gil noted, you can't save in your garage. You can't tune your car there, either. Instead, it takes a couple minutes of navigating to figure out where to go.

First point, yes. Second point, no. You couldn't do that until GT3.

19. No pre-race info. You might be up against that Toyota GT1...but then again, you might not.

True, but what are you going to do with the info anyways? It's not like you could reset the lineup without reentering the race anyways.

20. Earning gold. Some of the license tests are way too easy. Others take hours, if not days to conquer.

True. Too true.

21. Many of the most exotic parts can't be used in free sim races without getting that ‘cheating’ feeling. In other words, i can enter my Jaguar XJ220 with a stage 1 turbo and pretty much win the World Cup, the All Stars races, etc. Stages 2, 3, and 4 aren't necessary unless you're not very experienced or want to race your buddy in a 2-player race.

Not sure I understand you there.

22. The Escudo Pikes Peak was never a road car in r/l. In the game, too many people use it to cheat in sim enduros and road races, never gaining useful racing knowledge.

That is a problem. However, seeing as how you can enter nearly EVERY RACE with an incredibly over powered car in GT4 (hey, the Toyota GT1 Race Car is MR! I'll race Lotus Esprits and Toyota MR2s with it! I just have to put street tires on it), I don't see that as any problem specific to GT2.
So, my first post in the GT2 forums. And it was an arguement. Hmm.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Do you have GT3 or GT4, or a PS2 at all? Since you're still posting here, I guess not, lol. If that's the case, I highly recommend... hmmm... upgrading! Sure, the system's nothing short of stinky at this point, but at least you get all the good games you want, and cheap! That's the beauty of buying a console late in its shelf-life, especially if you're broke: Cheapness, an improved non-buggy system and a storeful of great games. Well, in any case, I'll be seriously considering a PS3 purchase at launch or a bit later. Perhaps I'll hold on to my cash before anything I want to play comes out, though. To be frank, the 360's titles looks more promising: Halo, Oblivion, etc.

Yes I got a PS2 finally and am doing GT3. Pupik was trying to convince me to upgrade to the 4th game, but at the moment I can't see spending $49.95 + I wanna go thru the entire series as it evolved. I post here in GT2 mostly because it's my ‘home’. The GT3 forum actually seems slower than this one lately. What's the 360 btw?

 

[flamingwonky]

Yeah, i got a PS2 finally and am doing GT3. Pupik was trying to convince me to upgrade to the 4th game, but at the moment i can't see spending $49.95 + i wanna go thru the entire series as it evolved. I post here in GT2 mostly cuz it's my ‘home’. The GT3 forum actually seems slower than this one lately. What's the 360 btw?

360? Ah, nothin'. It's only the new rage that comes to shelves in a couple of months, otherwise known as the X-Box 2.

You should get GT4, I swear. It's difficult to say how much better the fourth game is, to no small part because of the car list (which sold GT2 for me!). Truth be told, I didn't play much GT3, only about a month after getting my PS2, until more involving games like GT4 partook in my interest. Pupik was right, as usual. 👍
Besides, if you work, $50 should be a snap for something that will occupy so much of your time! So get it, if only for the Nurb'.

The previous poster made some points that I'll have to address to, but not today, because I've a great deal of work I should be finishing up!

 

[Parnelli Bone]

What's up Toronado? Well I'm not gonna argue with you.

Haha, yes I am! I always like to explain where I'm coming from so here goes. Keep in mind that these ‘failures’ are not just my opinion, but are derived from the experiences of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of other GT gamers.

#1: could be the game version, tho I've had it happen to me even when using Greatest Hits. But then, I do lots of track testing.

#3: I already said I don't personally care about the typos & stuff, and I know it doesn't affect the actual game, but still, it's a failure on the part of the communicators. If you try to spell the word ‘cat’ use two tees (catt) you have failed to spell the word correctly. It is a failure. The inconsistent spec & info sheets also expand on this and show how miscommunicative and pressured PD must have been. There's not just one misspell or grammatical error, there are many!

#5: You may not personally love Acura, but millions of people do. In real life, the Integra is wildly popular, lots of people soup them up. But I don't care if it's the Daihatsu Midget we're talkin about--there's no excuse for a car to have an identical 3rd & 4th gear. It would probly take 5 minutes for the programmer to have fixed this error.

#6: I wasn't really referring to the shoddy graphics so much--I was referring to the inconsistency of GT2...some cars look decent & recognizable and others look horrible with too much shine or poor definition

#8: Too many cars sound the same. This isn't so much a space issue as yet another programming error. A Subie wagon should not sound like a muscle car. When you slap a semi-racing muffler on a Roadrunner, it should not sound like a Trueno. It's obvious that again, the game programmer hit the wrong button...got the wrong sound for the wrong car.

#9: In GT1, if you lower a car too much and stiffen up its dampers or springs, it'll lose speed over bumpy portions of tracks, just like it would IRL. In GT2, this doesn't matter since they didn't program the car to have a bottom. Go try it: take a TVR Griffith to Trail Mountain in GT1, lower it all the way with a fairly stiff suspension. Now do the same in GT2. Do you see the difference?

#13: Many hardcore gamers assumed that the Hp limit was meant to be neared or met when GT2 came out. So when they entered a 591 hp race in a 590hp car, they were disappointed at how easy they found the game. The hp limits seem to be set for beginners.

#17: The used car lots should have been featured in West, South, and North cities. Not to find a cheap car, but to find a RARE one. In real life, you can't just go into a dealership and find a DB6 or even a Cougar. It would make GT2 that much more stellar.

#19: I do plenty with the pre-race info. In GT1 it gave you the make, weight & power of all the cars you were up against, which made it possible to tune your car in a similar way and create a challenging race. Plus, it's simply realistic. IRL, you always know what you're up against. Michael Schumacher never has to guess if he's gonna be up against that Ferrari or not. He knows, the race marshals have to know, too. This is done so nobody is overqualified.

#21: Phew, this is almost over! My point here is that lots of people (not just me) were overly disappointed with the high-end AI in GT2. Enter a car with more than 700 horses in a sim race, and the race becomes too easy. It would be cool to have a series of 1000 horsepower cars to race against, see what I mean? Instead, the only opportunity to have a fair high-powered race is against your buddy in 2-player.

Don't worry about this being your first post and stuff. I'm just defending my POV and there's lots of friends here in the GT2 forum. Cool?

 

[Parnelli Bone]

[QUOTE=fl

 

[Korndawg]

yeah most likely it wont be long. i got bored of it after about 2 weeks. i still play it when i want to see my cars in more detail and to just do free drives around my favorite tracks. i dont own gt4 yet cuz im BROKE and i dont have a job il get one soon i hope

 

[TMM]

yeah most likely it wont be long. i got bored of it after about 2 weeks. i still play it when i want to see my cars in more detail and to just do free drives around my favorite tracks. i dont own gt4 yet cuz im BROKE and i dont have a job il get one soon i hope

A job or GT4?

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Good luck finding a job...GT4 shoudl be easy enough to find, even in Lemoore, California. Like, what is there to do in Lemoore, anyways?

 

[flamingwonky]

I don't know about LeMoore, but here in the Southern Bay Area it's pretty quiet and villagy. There's in fact very little to do outside, so communication with friends happens at school or each other's home. This is quite contrary to my visit to Russia this summer, where the goal is to get away from home with the intention of getting piss drunk.

 

[Thiele]

650 or so cars in the game,

max of 200 cars in garage that is just a mess.

edit: sorry, condraz23 is right it is only 100 cars

 

[Condraz23]

I thought it was just 100 cars maximum.

As for its failures, Gran Turismo 2 was rushed into production and it definitely shows. If Polyphony Digital had a few more months to correct a few things, most of these issues would have been easily resolved.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

I thought it was just 100 cars maximum.

As for its failures, Gran Turismo 2 was rushed into production and it definitely shows. If Polyphony Digital had a few more months to correct a few things, most of these issues would have been easily resolved.

Oh yeah. Say it like it is brother ¬

 

[greenlightning]

******* For its time GT2 simply left all other car games in the dust *******

There is not another game that came out at same time that was even close

Does it have it flaws yes, back then did it matter that much no, could it of been better, yes. All games can be better, and all GT games have there flaws or bugs or whatever. GT2 also was the only game to have simulated damage, although not pictorial damage.

 

[Condraz23]

The damage modelling was horrible in Gan Turismo 2. Maybe that's why they decided to take it out on the later installments. All you would have was the car pushing you to the right when travelling along a straight path.

 

[HYBRIDLVR]

GT2 was Extremley fun, I don't think it failed @ All! There's more to do in GT2 than all other GT's, And if you Hybrid you'd know it's the best GT period!!!

 

[Korndawg]

Good luck finding a job...GT4 shoudl be easy enough to find, even in Lemoore, CAlifornia. Like, what is there to do in Lemoore, anyways?

yeah it wont be a problem finding the game at all.. basicaly.. all there is to do is party, sk8 (or ride bmx ) or chill and play GT

 

[Parnelli Bone]

The damage modelling was horrible in Gan Turismo 2. Maybe that's why they decided to take it out on the later installments. All you would have was the car pushing you to the right when travelling along a straight path.

The damage modeling in GT2 sucked. You could only use it on the Arcade disc, and it only affects your car...the AI is immune to it. The only place it makes sense is in 2-player, where you and your buddy could potentially wreck each other taking a turn too fast!

 

[Parnelli Bone]

GT2 was Extremley fun, I don't think it failed @ All! There's more to do in GT2 than all other GT's, And if you Hybrid you'd know it's the best GT period!!!

See but the question isn't “Did GT2 Fail?” the question is “WHERE did it fail?”. In other words, where did they try to do something that didn't work...or what did they leave out (drag racing) even tho they promised it would be there.