Where to test Standing Starts?

Discussion in 'GT6 Tuning' started by RiffleKing, Feb 14, 2016.

  1. RiffleKing

    RiffleKing

    Messages:
    74
    Hello

    I want to learn more about tuning the transmission. It would be useful to be able to "test drive" standing starts in a quick, easily accessible game format whether on or offline.

    How do you guys test this? Do you know which races have standing starts and allow a wide variety of cars?

    Thanks

    Update:
    Errr... I just had a "duh" moment. I guess that I can just go to any test track and stop the car, engage e-brake and start from any spot. Is there a more race-realistic way to do this?
     
  2. GT6champNK_69

    GT6champNK_69

    Messages:
    738
    Just download a point-to-point track from the course maker database, in these point to point tracks you start from standing starts.:D:tup:. That's what I recommend.:cheers:
     
    Thorin Cain and RiffleKing like this.
  3. DolHaus

    DolHaus

    Messages:
    3,865
    Location:
    England
  4. Otaliema

    Otaliema

    Messages:
    5,489
    Location:
    United States
    As the two above said a point to point user made track but if you go truly off line you have to do the stop on a track. I recommend SSRX as it has distance markets so you can easily check the changes to the transmission for gains.
    Just a note the highest speed at X distance is not always the fastest to X distance
     
  5. saywhat

    saywhat

    Messages:
    47
    That's drag racing talk right there. Lol


    @RiffleKing, if you give us an example of a car you're interested in, we might be able to give a little more assistance.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2016
    Otaliema likes this.
  6. Raiden76910

    Raiden76910

    Messages:
    3
    I
     
  7. Raiden76910

    Raiden76910

    Messages:
    3
    I do all my gear testing at Motegi oval. Not as good as the speed test in GT5 but it's all we have.
     
  8. saywhat

    saywhat

    Messages:
    47
    You can use the course maker if you really want. Made to any desired length.

    I'd recommend to anyone to try drag racing. Simply for the experience of setting up the transmission for a strong launch and maintaining the cars powerband through all gears.
     
  9. Grippy

    Grippy (Banned)

    Messages:
    383
    what I do is find a good point-to-point coursemaker track, completely straight. Then select auto transmission and notice when the car shifts/ how far down the revs drop each shift. Tune accordingly. Also note if you choose ssrx it has less grip than ssr7, a bog in 1st gear might end up as wheelspin on route X
     
    Otaliema likes this.
  10. eran0004

    eran0004

    Messages:
    8,712
  11. Otaliema

    Otaliema

    Messages:
    5,489
    Location:
    United States
    Grip levels at SSR-X are dependent on the time of day, at 6am (default)) they are pretty low at noon they are pretty good. SSR-7 got higher grip cause it's a pure night track like SSR-5
     
  12. Grippy

    Grippy (Banned)

    Messages:
    383
    I would usually think grip levels would be highest in the day time, since the sun is out? lol. ssr7 is in the night time, I havn't compared for sure but more grip on a pure night course Vs. a course that is more in the day really feels weird to me. Then again Routex is supposedly more fiction than 7. I tend to think each course in GT6 has a grip level slightly different from each other track, regardless of time of day. I can reach 260 mph easily in 300zx before the hill at route X whereas I take allot longer to reach 250mph at the longer route 7, most times not even making it without draft.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2016
    Otaliema likes this.
  13. saywhat

    saywhat

    Messages:
    47
    Tuning everything in Automatic is far from ideal in a lot of circumstances.
     
  14. Grippy

    Grippy (Banned)

    Messages:
    383
    I use it as a base, I see where the computer shifts, its consistent and tells me which gears are flat out knocked off the rev range, works for me.
     
  15. saywhat

    saywhat

    Messages:
    47
    You'd be better served using auto primarily to check the length of your last gear.
    Once you've ascertained that it's not too long or short, you can work on the rest of your gears.
    Transmission tuning is seriously flawed in this game. From a drag racing perspective it used to be all about keeping your car in the optimal rev range of every gear.
    But now we've shown cars like the supra and Chevelle launch considerably harder being held in 1st to a set mph well outside its rev range.
    Defies logic, but this is a game after all.
     
    Otaliema and Grippy like this.
  16. eran0004

    eran0004

    Messages:
    8,712
    Where is that shown?
     
  17. saywhat

    saywhat

    Messages:
    47
    In the GT6 drag leaderboards.
    I doubt you'll find it in a YouTube video, as it's certainly not common knowledge.
    Drag folk are extremely sensitive about releasing transmission info they've discovered through the test track created for the leaderboard.

    And tbh, how it corresponds to other tracks is open for debate....but it stands to reason that the principals remain the same.

    Many cars launch harder when held in 1st to around 40mph.
    This technique also allows us to run a much wider second gear... In many instances second gear is full left on the slider.
    Doing this drastically decreases shift lag and increases overall pull through the higher gears.

    There are also other settings that can drastically increase a cars launch, even most drag folk don't know about.

    Also, in my experience, standing start launch techniques flow over to all forms of racing in GT6.
    It's kind of like a boost launch in Mario karts.

    As for proof of my claims....
    I can only point you to the leaderboards I guess.
    My PSN is Neck-it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2016
    Otaliema likes this.
  18. eran0004

    eran0004

    Messages:
    8,712
    40 mph instead of taller or shorter 1st? With a shorter 1st gear you get a lot of wheelspin in the more powerful cars, so even if you have a billion torques at the wheel, the tyres are only able to convert a fraction of it to a frictional force that accelerates the car.

    As the game operates at a framerate, in theory an ideal gearbox would be omptimized by the number of frames required to shift gear. For instance, reducing the theoretical shift time from 5.1/60th of a second (6 frames in the game) to 4.9/60th of a second (5 frames in the game) reduces the shift time by 1 frame (1/60th of a second), while reducing the theoretical shift time from 5.9/60th of a second (6 frames) to 5.1/60th of a second (6 frames) doesn't have any effect.

    For instance, say that you have the following theoretical shift times, determined by the gap between the gears:

    1 to 2: 7.2/60 seconds (8 frames)
    2 to 3: 6.5/60 seconds (7 frames)
    3 to 4: 5.5/60 seconds (6 frames)
    4 to 5: 5.2/60 seconds (6 frames)
    5 to 6: 4.8/60 seconds (5 frames)

    Total theoretical shift time: 29.2/60th of a second
    Total shift time locked by framerate: 32/60th of a second
    Seconds lost due to framerate: 2.8/60, or 0.047 seconds

    An optimal configuration:

    1 to 2: 6.9/60 seconds (7 frames)
    2 to 3: 6.9/60 seconds (7 frames)
    3 to 4: 4.9/60 seconds (5 frames)
    4 to 5: 4.9/60 seconds (5 frames)
    5 to 6: 4.9/60 seconds (5 frames)

    Total theoretical shift time: 28.5/60th of a second
    Total shift time locked by framerate: 29/60th of a second
    Seconds lost due to framerate: 0.5/60, or 0.008 seconds

    It would take a lot of work to calculate the theoretical shift time though and to optimize the gearbox to the framerate, but if every millisecond counts... ;)
     
  19. saywhat

    saywhat

    Messages:
    47
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2016
    Otaliema likes this.
  20. Grippy

    Grippy (Banned)

    Messages:
    383
    Nah it only slightly defies logic. a car wth 900hp In long first gear is going to pull off allot more then in 6th even outside the rev range. I dont think a car in 6th gear can ever pull more mph than what yu get in first with that much hp. the gearing would just slow 6th down to a bog before it makes past the speed
     
    Otaliema likes this.
  21. Otaliema

    Otaliema

    Messages:
    5,489
    Location:
    United States
    It's all about torque.
    Your transmission is a torque converter. Basic formula is
    (Gear ratio*Final Gear ratio*torque)*0.85^
    So just looking at that. Anyone with math knowledge is going to see very quickly than 3.123*2.500 *325is going to give more that 1.124*2.500*325.

    ^Thats assuming that PD programmed the 15% friction loss.

    Edit corrected typos and added missing part of formula-_-
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2016
    Grippy likes this.
  22. saywhat

    saywhat

    Messages:
    47
    We certainly wouldn't look to use sixth for launch in drag racing.
    At the GT5 SSRX 1/4mile test track, more often than not, on high HP & TQ cars considerable gains were made through utilizing a quick shift from 1-2 to effectively bog a car in its torque range, to the point of increased acceleration.

    In this version, whilst it still works on several cars. A considerable amount more work when over revved.
    In some instances it can gain 3/4 of a car length down the quarter.
    Might not sound like much, but I guess similar techniques used at say Tsukuba, might be very helpful come the first turn.

    Obviously this would be transmission length dependent. If your 1st is considerably longer you may not get the same effect.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2016
    Otaliema likes this.
  23. Grippy

    Grippy (Banned)

    Messages:
    383
    I think there are lots to improve in the transmission of this game series. Do wish they would make a better power graph with actual scale on the rev ranges this game looks simcade without measurements.