Which cobra?

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Themlasu
This is more of a question, but wasn't there 2 427's for the shelby/ac cobra. One was a hi power 427 (forged internals), and the other was the rare monster 427 SOHC (single overhead cams). I know some came with 428ci motor.


I know Shelby built two special Cobras in 1967-68. I think they were called the Cobra Dragonsnake. They had the 427 but supercharged and put out something like 700hp or so. I know the performance number from 0-60 is 3.8sec and that Carrol built one for himself and one for Bill Cosby!??.
Anyway only one exist to this day,,,,,Cosby crashed his.
 
TurboJ, thank you. i was hoping as i scrolled down the list that someone would post that actually knew something about the Ace and the Cobra, and there your post was. I was so relieved. But since you seem to know so much, which one would you pick (even though its kinda your personal preference, because as you said, they are nearly identical)?
 
all you need to know is, it was driven down the m1 motorway in england days before it opened to the public at a whopping 180mph. as a consequence of that act we now have a speed limit of 70mph over here in britain THANKS A BUNCH SHELBY AND A.C. ........ THANKS A BUNCH. :grumpy:
 
I'd go with the Shelby. Just for the simple fact that AC didnt know what they had untill Shelby stuffed a 427 under the hood and turned it into a world beater.
 
I would buy both. I like the Shelby name and I tink its a little more powerful so I'd buy that first. But the AC has the advantage of more colors.
 
Having been a fan of Ford, and the Shelby Cobra in particular, since I was a kid( 1960's!!!) I'm seeing alot of truth mixed with some missinformation, here are the facts. Carroll Shelby was a famous racing driver during the 1950's racing for many great European teams of the time, including Maserati, and won Le Mans in 1959. He retired the following year due to heart problems, and admitted later that this problem existed before then and often chewed nitro pills while racing!

He had approached Ferrari to put togther a team to race in America, but was told by Enzo Ferrari himself that their were no good drivers in America, and that racing in America was unimportant. This Angered Shelby and he began calling people he new within the American auto industry to try and build a car that he could use to beat Ferrari at their own game. Lee Iacocca offered to back him by providing money and engines, it was AFTER this that he started looking for a car to put these engines in. AC cars of England was making a car known as the Ace, but had lost their original engine supplier, when Shelby found out about this, he had one Ace shipped to America for his team to play with. This first car was outfitted with a 260ci V8 ( the 289ci engine was not manufactured by Ford until 2 years later) and this was the car shown and test driven by the various car magazines of the day. They only had one car during the first 6 months that this was going on, and painted it different colors each time they took it to a new magazine to make it appear they had more! ( God bless American ingenuity!)

The first production cars, and race cars, had 260ci V-8's, it wasn't till the third year of Cobra production that they began to use the 289. Even with the small engine, they were very fast and won most races they were entered in in the US, but were not campained overseas by Shelby until the creation of the 289 FIA car in 1964. This model used a newly designed suspension, created by Shelby's team, and was the first car NOT to use the original AC body, but still retained most of the chassis. Production 289 Cobra's were still using the original AC body and chassis until the end of their production. The FIA Cobra's were to drag limited on topend speed to win many of the races in Europe, so Shelby created the Cobra Daytona coupe in 1965, which they used to win the FIA World championship in Europe that same year. This car also used a 289ci V-8.

That same year they began work on a new Cobra, using the new Ford 427ci "side oiler" motor, this motor was originally designed for NASCAR racing, which made huge power and was designed for hours of running flat out in a 3500lb NASCAR racer, and would prove extremely reliable in the light weight Cobra. The 427 Cobra did not use any parts from the original AC car, not even the bodywork ( this was also the same time that AC cars went out of business) and was described br Carroll himself as " the ugliest damn car I've ever seen" the first time he saw it. Their were 2 versions of this car, the production version using the 427 motor and a single 4-barrel carb, and the 427 S/C using the same engine but with 2 4-barrel carbs, an oil cooler, larger radiator, and stiffer springs. The S/C was sold to those who wanted a car they could race right out of the box.

The "special" car that was mentioned by Elduchey was called the Super Cobra, and their were only 2 of these cars ever made. they featured both a chin and rear spoiler and a larger hood scoop. The scoop was enlarged to accomadate 2 Paxton Superchargers ( forerunner of the Vortec) one feeding each 4-barrel carb! no documented testing was ever done on either of these 2 cars, but they were believed to make more than 800hp. One car was given to one of Shelby's designers ( I don't remember his name, but I do remember that he died when he crashed the car several years late) and the other WAS given to Bill Cosby, which he only drove once and gave it away. Cosby talked about this car on one of his comedy albums, the album is titled 200M.P.H. and can still be found on cassette tape, I'm not sure if it has ever been transferred to CD. This car has long been searched for, but so far has never been found, if it ever turns up it will be the most valuable Cobra ever made.

And that's the story ( excluding the Shelby Mustangs and GT 40 which Shelby was also working with at the same time! But that's another story ) one other thing that was mentioned a couple of times was about the "AC" version of the Cobra, this never happened, AC cars never sold any Cobra, not even the original 260 cars, the only reasons I can think of for GT4 to have them listed this way was so they could be used in the Euro cup races, and to allow more color choices since these are listed as 427's and not 427 S/C's, this stems from the fact that all 427 S/C's ever built were blue with white stripes.

For more on Carroll Shelby, and a complete timeline of his racing and car making years, check out his web site.
http://www.carrollshelby.com/about.htm
 
Elduchey
I know Shelby built two special Cobras in 1967-68. I think they were called the Cobra Dragonsnake. They had the 427 but supercharged and put out something like 700hp or so. I know the performance number from 0-60 is 3.8sec and that Carrol built one for himself and one for Bill Cosby!??.
Anyway only one exist to this day,,,,,Cosby crashed his.
Yep, Bill Cosby did get one. This was a dual Paxton supercharged Cobra with circa 900 horsepower. Motor Trend covered the car in one of their "back page special reports" a few years ago.
I sucessfully made the dual supercharged Cobra in GT3 by installing one supercharger and editing all 6 artificial aspiration values in the .ini file. Normally a supercharged or single turbo car only has the first 3 numerals altered. The twin turbo cars have all 6 numerals altered. I just used a supercharger and tweaked all 6 numerals to give the effect of twin Paxton screws under the hood :D
Besides the custom Cobra, only a handful of cars ever used two superchargers to make power. The Studebaker Avanti R5 is one of them. Studebaker had a quest to break the 200 M.P.H. barrier in the 1960s. It wasn't until the 1990s though when a dual supercharged Avanti "Due Cento" (200 in Italian) broke that barrier.
http://www.theavanti.com/RSeries.html
http://www.theavanti.com/Racing.html (Be interesting to see how many USAC records the Avanti still holds today)
http://www.theavanti.com/RonHall.html
http://www.theavanti.com/JimLange.html

gtjem
(edited)
The "special" car that was mentioned by Elduchey was called the Super Cobra, and their were only 2 of these cars ever made. they featured both a chin and rear spoiler and a larger hood scoop. The scoop was enlarged to accomadate 2 Paxton Superchargers (forerunner of the Vortec) one feeding each 4-barrel carb! no documented testing was ever done on either of these 2 cars, but they were believed to make more than 800hp. One car was given to one of Shelby's designers (I don't remember his name, but I do remember that he died when he crashed the car several years late) and the other WAS given to Bill Cosby, which he only drove once and gave it away. Cosby talked about this car on one of his comedy albums, the album is titled 200M.P.H. and can still be found on cassette tape, I'm not sure if it has ever been transferred to CD. This car has long been searched for, but so far has never been found, if it ever turns up it will be the most valuable Cobra ever made.
As a fan and owner of the Studebaker Avanti, the McCullough<sp?> superchargers were the predecessor to the Paxton. Paxton simply existed before Vortec. I know Paxton eventually overtook McCullough but Vortec became its own company.
Yes indeed the Cobra is talked about on "200 M.P.H." I've got the .mp3 file. They can be found on many of the *whistles* places where people get get songs for free *whistles* Of course I didn't get my copy from those types of places though ;)
 
I had forgotten about the Avanti, I remember reading a small mention in an editorial in Car & Driver a while back. I don't remember which magazine I first read about it, but it was back in the 1980's. After reading about the Cosby album, I went and found a copy on cassette. I still have it, but I don't think I've even got a cassette player of any kind....not even in my car :banghead:

I gotta find a player and import it into my computer, I could see using some of the crazy sounds he made during that bit as computer sounds.

you get an email, and your computer says LOOKOUT SNOOPY! :lol:

btw, bring up superchargers, have you tried one yet on any cars? I've looked at a couple for some of the imports, and they don't seem to add much hp but I'm wondering how they would be on a rally car. Tahiti Maze would be a good place for low end grunt, since the harepins can really drop your revs if you don't hit it juuuussstt right.
 
They only had one car during the first 6 months that this was going on, and painted it different colors each time they took it to a new magazine to make it appear they had more! ( God bless American ingenuity!)

LOL! Awesome!
 
i first heard about cosby talking about a 200m.p.h car on Nbox Comedy radio in itunes.
when i was listening to it, i was skeptical that he even had such a car. now after reading this thread i truely believe it.
and twin superchargers would be an awesome setup along with the 427! :D

and speaking of back page specials, i remember reading one of the magazines (Motor Trend, Car & Driver or some other famous U.S car magazine) showing an old cut out of a 196? Ford GT40 road version ad for sale for $16,000!
 
super_brrd
TurboJ, thank you. i was hoping as i scrolled down the list that someone would post that actually knew something about the Ace and the Cobra, and there your post was. I was so relieved. But since you seem to know so much, which one would you pick (even though its kinda your personal preference, because as you said, they are nearly identical)?

Thanks for the comment! :)

About preference, I like both cars a lot in the game, and I actually have 3 Cobras in my gamesave - A stock Shelby, a stock AC and a lightly tuned and lightened AC.
AC gets the vote for colour choice, but the Shelby has a sound track to die for...
That's why I have both! I use the stock AC for drifting at Seattle :scared:

Gtjem - great info! You obviously took some time to write that! Oh, I forgot to mention the 260 engine, good thing you pointed that out!
 
The ac cobra has a claim to fame. Before speed limits in Britain someone was clocked driving an ac cobra @ 140+ mph on the m1 (biggest motorway(highway) at the time) and this forced a countrywide speed limit of 70mph to be introduced!!!!
 
Shelby Cobra 427: 1967
AC Cars 427 S/C: 1966

The AC Cars is the elder one so I chose it.Dunno why, for me they're both pretty the same.Only does the first named "Shelby" and the other one "AC Cars"



Cheers,
 
Bill Cosby, which he only drove once and gave it away.


I be a car like that would scare the crap out of anyone. With that much power, you could probably break the rear end loose in fourth gear doing 80mph.
 
Elduchey
I be a car like that would scare the crap out of anyone. With that much power, you could probably break the rear end loose in fourth gear doing 80mph.
Yeah, my GT3 hybrid replica of Cosby's Cobra is pretty much undrivable. It's got 900 horsepower and more torque than that. Great for doing burnouts though.
 
Elduchey
I know Shelby built two special Cobras in 1967-68. I think they were called the Cobra Dragonsnake. They had the 427 but supercharged and put out something like 700hp or so. I know the performance number from 0-60 is 3.8sec and that Carrol built one for himself and one for Bill Cosby!??.
Anyway only one exist to this day,,,,,Cosby crashed his.


Along with the Super Cobra, there were also five Cobra Dragonsnakes. These Dragonsnakes were built for NHRA drag racing in the A/Sports Production class. Four of them had the 260/289 small block and the fifth had the 427 side-oiler. The 427 car, which I have an article on (Courtesy of the November 2004 issue of Hemmings Muscle Machines) goes into far too many details to list, but I will get some down. It had new rear axle assembley w/ 4.86 gears and Traction-Lok, a flywheel & clutch scattersheild, and quick-shift linkage, among other things. The side-oiler 427 had 12.5:1 compression, hi-rise aluminum intake, Holley 850CFM four barrel carb, and shorty headers. The output was conservatively estimated at 505 horsepower. It was a slicks car, and weighed around 2,200 pounds. The best known e.t. was a 10.87 @ 128mph, which was the record time for the class in 1966.

The 427 Dragonsnake still exists in (as far as I know) largely original condition. I don't know the fate of the 4 small-block cars.
 
gtjem
Having been a fan of Ford, and the Shelby Cobra in particular, since I was a kid( 1960's!!!) I'm seeing alot of truth mixed with some missinformation, here are the facts. Carroll Shelby was a famous racing driver during the 1950's racing for many great European teams of the time, including Maserati, and won Le Mans in 1959. He retired the following year due to heart problems, and admitted later that this problem existed before then and often chewed nitro pills while racing!

He had approached Ferrari to put togther a team to race in America, but was told by Enzo Ferrari himself that their were no good drivers in America, and that racing in America was unimportant. This Angered Shelby and he began calling people he new within the American auto industry to try and build a car that he could use to beat Ferrari at their own game. Lee Iacocca offered to back him by providing money and engines, it was AFTER this that he started looking for a car to put these engines in. AC cars of England was making a car known as the Ace, but had lost their original engine supplier, when Shelby found out about this, he had one Ace shipped to America for his team to play with. This first car was outfitted with a 260ci V8 ( the 289ci engine was not manufactured by Ford until 2 years later) and this was the car shown and test driven by the various car magazines of the day. They only had one car during the first 6 months that this was going on, and painted it different colors each time they took it to a new magazine to make it appear they had more! ( God bless American ingenuity!)

The first production cars, and race cars, had 260ci V-8's, it wasn't till the third year of Cobra production that they began to use the 289. Even with the small engine, they were very fast and won most races they were entered in in the US, but were not campained overseas by Shelby until the creation of the 289 FIA car in 1964. This model used a newly designed suspension, created by Shelby's team, and was the first car NOT to use the original AC body, but still retained most of the chassis. Production 289 Cobra's were still using the original AC body and chassis until the end of their production. The FIA Cobra's were to drag limited on topend speed to win many of the races in Europe, so Shelby created the Cobra Daytona coupe in 1965, which they used to win the FIA World championship in Europe that same year. This car also used a 289ci V-8.

That same year they began work on a new Cobra, using the new Ford 427ci "side oiler" motor, this motor was originally designed for NASCAR racing, which made huge power and was designed for hours of running flat out in a 3500lb NASCAR racer, and would prove extremely reliable in the light weight Cobra. The 427 Cobra did not use any parts from the original AC car, not even the bodywork ( this was also the same time that AC cars went out of business) and was described br Carroll himself as " the ugliest damn car I've ever seen" the first time he saw it. Their were 2 versions of this car, the production version using the 427 motor and a single 4-barrel carb, and the 427 S/C using the same engine but with 2 4-barrel carbs, an oil cooler, larger radiator, and stiffer springs. The S/C was sold to those who wanted a car they could race right out of the box.

The "special" car that was mentioned by Elduchey was called the Super Cobra, and their were only 2 of these cars ever made. they featured both a chin and rear spoiler and a larger hood scoop. The scoop was enlarged to accomadate 2 Paxton Superchargers ( forerunner of the Vortec) one feeding each 4-barrel carb! no documented testing was ever done on either of these 2 cars, but they were believed to make more than 800hp. One car was given to one of Shelby's designers ( I don't remember his name, but I do remember that he died when he crashed the car several years late) and the other WAS given to Bill Cosby, which he only drove once and gave it away. Cosby talked about this car on one of his comedy albums, the album is titled 200M.P.H. and can still be found on cassette tape, I'm not sure if it has ever been transferred to CD. This car has long been searched for, but so far has never been found, if it ever turns up it will be the most valuable Cobra ever made.

And that's the story ( excluding the Shelby Mustangs and GT 40 which Shelby was also working with at the same time! But that's another story ) one other thing that was mentioned a couple of times was about the "AC" version of the Cobra, this never happened, AC cars never sold any Cobra, not even the original 260 cars, the only reasons I can think of for GT4 to have them listed this way was so they could be used in the Euro cup races, and to allow more color choices since these are listed as 427's and not 427 S/C's, this stems from the fact that all 427 S/C's ever built were blue with white stripes.

For more on Carroll Shelby, and a complete timeline of his racing and car making years, check out his web site.
http://www.carrollshelby.com/about.htm
My, it appears we have an accomplished member among us!:lol: Good show, gtjem, you certainly have done your homework.👍 Pity there is no Cobra Daytona in this game, it would win this question hands down...but, apparently, you can't have everything in life.:grumpy:

Back on topic, the Bristol (AC) 427 happens to have a beautiful exhaust note, does it not?
 
I have one of each. The AC 427 -- one helluva fast car!! The Shelby Cobra 427 -- another "one helluva fast car"! :sly:

In the game (I have both) they drive about the same -- some tweaking here and there on both. The AC 427 I think does sound nicer -- but have to give it up to Shelby for drivability out of the box (no REAL tweaking needed). That AC does show up more than the Shelby -- BUT I was able to beat it (the AC 427 in the World Classic Series in the Pro Events) with a 69 Corvette Stingray (modded to the teeth -- all horsepower added-- 594hp!?) Took me the better part of an hour practicing to get it right -- the 69 Stingray handles for ****!!
 
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