which is the most civilsed nation on earth?

[ZAGGIN]

which is the most civilised nation on earth? i believe a nation can be deemed civilised by its actions, how it treats others, how it treats its own citizens (ie sick, poor, disabled), its view of the world (foreign policy, foreign aid etc), how others nations view that nation, and by its history.
so come on, stand up for your nation and state its good points (as well as its bad points). no matter how big or small your country may be, let us know your views about the place where you live, and give opinions about what you think about other countries.

 

[Max_DC]

Difficult subject here I think... because judging over politics ( inner and outer affairs), history, etc and then drawing a line is a bit ... well.. you know I just think that there are too many aspects....
Anyway, a good example would be JAPAN I think, usually people don't steel in Japan, it is really the safest place on earth I know, japanese society has a lot of harmony ( well If I think about it, it is a difficult point) ... Ok I mean I could name a lot of arguments against Japan aswell... especially concerning its history, but overall I think Japan would be high in your ranking... Probably Germany aswell, of course except the historian aspect again : We are doing a lot for the environement , for peace in the world and in Europe by supporting the idea of the European Union and we treat our people so good that we will be broke in a few years if we don't stop

 

[Cosmic]

Umm...Sweden? I don't think so

 

[vladimir]

canada? i have never heard of anything bad happening in canada, as long as you leave out bears.

 

[Solid Lifters]

Norway or the Netherlands. Either would do nicely.

 

[VIPFREAK]

Difficult subject here I think... because judging over politics ( inner and outer affairs), history, etc and then drawing a line is a bit ... well.. you know I just think that there are too many aspects....
Anyway, a good example would be JAPAN I think, usually people don't steel in Japan, it is really the safest place on earth I know, japanese society has a lot of harmony ( well If I think about it, it is a difficult point) ... Ok I mean I could name a lot of arguments against Japan aswell... especially concerning its history, but overall I think Japan would be high in your ranking... Probably Germany aswell, of course except the historian aspect again : We are doing a lot for the environement , for peace in the world and in Europe by supporting the idea of the European Union and we treat our people so good that we will be broke in a few years if we don't stop

I'd agree but that might not hold up because of stupid ass influences like our sorry asses (U.S.)

 

[Danoff]

The United States of America

 

[ND4SPD]

I'd say my homeland...Canada! We're the peacekeepers of the world, and come on, a single normal homicide that gets reported on the news puts the whole country quivering.,...

 

[smellysocks12]

Haha, the USA definitely isn't the most civilized even though many Americans like to think it is. Lots of crime is going on, many gun wielding rednecks or gangsters going around, forcing their will onto others. Not to mention it's the only country that ever tested a nuclear bomb on people. I should also mention that the cities are modern, yet when you drive away from them it's like you take a leap of 100 years back into time.

Japan isn't the most civilized either, especially when looking at their history. But even besides that if you see whatever crazy stuff is being made in that country. A country which makes hentai and bukkake movies is not really that civilized.

Being from the Netherlands I don't believe my own country is the most civilized one in the world either. Football hooligans going rampant once in a while, neighborhoods with lots of criminality still existing.



I'd like to say Canada would be the most civilized as far as I know indeed. They have helped to free Europe just as much as the USA during WWII, yet they don't brag about it as much as their southern neighbors. Also crime rate is a lot lower, less racism and it seems to be less of a police state when compared to the USA, where they shoot first and ask questions later.

 

[Solid Fro]

danoff is correct.

Given the criteria ZAGGIN gave (How one country treats it's citizens, it's view of the world, how others view said country, and it's history), the United States would come out on top.

 

[Sage]

Seems to me a lot of people (here and around the world) equate socialism with "being civilized".

*Has thrown in two cents, runs before the civilized people throw their grenades.*

 

[smellysocks12]

danoff is correct.

Given the criteria ZAGGIN gave (How one country treats it's citizens, it's view of the world, how others view said country, and it's history), the United States would come out on top.

Let's see...

by its actions

*Ignoring the UN and going on a search for non-existing mass-destruction weapons.

*Guantanamo Bay

how it treats its own citizens (ie sick, poor, disabled)

*Hospitals throwing sick people back on the sidewalk when they don't have assurance and don't have enough money.

*Lower level of social security than in any European country.

*Death penalty still existant, while all other civilized countries banned that years ago.

*An atmosphere which gives the civilians a feeling that they need a gun to protect themselves.

its view of the world (foreign policy, foreign aid etc)

*Ignoring the entire world until they need something themselves.

*Keeping poor countries dependent to US services.

by its history

*Wiped out Mohicans, Aztecs, Mayas, etc.

*Vietnam

*Hiroshima

*Nagasaki

*Cold War, putting the world on the edge of self destruction together with Russia.




I am by no means anti-America and I know many Americans who are very good people, but to say that the United States of America is the most civilized nation in the world is beyond ridiculous. This topic definitely shows to me that the patriotic propaganda is effective, I have yet to witness the first non-American to mention the USA as the most civilized nation.

 

[vladimir]

danoff is correct.

Given the criteria ZAGGIN gave (How one country treats it's citizens, it's view of the world, how others view said country, and it's history), the United States would come out on top.

in what bubble do you live?


adding to what smelly has already said...the majority of the rest of the world hasn't exaclty a very good view on america.

america has probably the worst image of all developed nations.

 

[Solid Fro]

*Ignoring the UN and going on a search for non-existing mass-destruction weapons.

*Guantanamo Bay

Wrong.

The US followed UN Resolution 1441. The US did find WMD, I can make a list if you want to.

Guantanamo Bay is where the US holds suspected terrorists. Terrorists do not receive rights defined by the Geneva Conventions.

*Hospitals throwing sick people back on the sidewalk when they don't have assurance and don't have enough money.

Hospitals are not there to give free handouts. They are there to treat people. If people go there wanting free stuff, then they're going to the wrong place.

*Lower level of social security than in any European country.

"Lower level" in what way? Please, explain.

*Death penalty still existant, while all other civilized countries banned that years ago.

Oh, and convicted murders should not have the death penalty? How is that civilized?

*An atmosphere which gives the civilians a feeling that they need a gun to protect themselves.

What? I don't have a gun, my neighbors don't have a gun, my friends don't have a gun. Please, explain.

*Ignoring the entire world until they need something themselves.

Really? So, I guess we spent over $600 million, sent a carrier strike force, and a whole Marine division over to tsunami stricken south east Asia for what?

Rice patties?

*Keeping poor countries dependent to US services.

And who's fault is that? The US or the corrupt governments who run those poor countries?

*Wiped out Mohicans, Aztecs, Mayas, etc.

*Vietnam

*Hiroshima

*Nagasaki

*Cold War, putting the world on the edge of self destruction together with Russia.

I believe the Spanish wiped out the Aztecs and the Mayas.

The US went into Vietnam to stop the invasion of the Communist government of North Vietnam into South Vietnam. You can now see how badly the North Vietnamese treat not only their own people, but the people of South Vietnam as well.

We been through the atomic bombs of WWII discussion already. The nuclear weapons used on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were used instead of a full scale invasion of main land Japan (eclipsing the D-Day invasion of Normandy several times). The death projections were in the millions, for both sides. Either use a magical bomb that can end the war today or continue the war for another 5 years? You decide, Mr. Anti-War.

It was the Soviet Union itself that continued it's conquest after WWII, not the US. Winston Churchill feared it would happen if Stalin gained too much power during WWII.

 

[xcsti]

*Wiped out... ...Aztecs, Mayas, etc.

Whoa whoa, when did we do that? Weren't they both done by the conquistadors ie not the US.

 

[a6m5]

USA is the only Super Power I care for. As a leading nation in the world, it does some dirty work, but that's politics for you. Are there a major nation in the world that never gets its' hands dirty? To me, it's very simple. I'd rather have USA as the worlds' sole Super Power. Not the Imperial Japan/Nazi Germany, Soviet Union, Communist China(we still have to watch out for this one). Seriously, those nations would've invaded the whole world, if it wasn't for the U.S., IMO. The U.S. either played a major role in destroying them, or are keep them in check.

Japan has some stains in their history, but currently, they are one of the most peaceful nations in the world. Yes, China and Koreas still accuse Japan of it's militant past, but today, role has reversed. It's the Japanese trying to talk things over, while China, South and North Korea, who are the aggressors

Looks like Canada has a lot of support in this thread, and for good reason. I have never heard of Canadian government carrying out genocide or anything like that. 👍 Since clean "history" is part of the contest, my vote is for Canada for now.

 

[smellysocks12]

The US followed UN Resolution 1441. The US did find WMD, I can make a list if you want to.

No they didn't, they ignored the UN investigation which wasn't completed yet and went to action right away. If the USA did find WMD then why didn't I hear about it?

Guantanamo Bay is where the US holds suspected terrorists. Terrorists do not receive rights defined by the Geneva Conventions.

Suspected terrorists aren't terrorists.

Maybe the USA re-wrote their own version of the Geneva conventions then. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. A captured terrorist has the same rights as any other POW. Anyone living under the circumstances created in Guantanamo bay will eventually admit to being a terrorists, after 3 years of getting humiliated and tortured. (24 hour long questioning without enough food and sleep is mental torture)

READ

Hospitals are not there to give free handouts. They are there to treat people. If people go there wanting free stuff, then they're going to the wrong place.

"Lower level" in what way? Please, explain.

No chance to get a good education unless your parents have the funds to afford it for you.

No medical healthcare for everyone.

No proper rehabilitation system.

Not much is done to reduce poverty within the own American borders.

Really? So, I guess we spent over $600 million, sent a carrier strike force, and a whole Marine division over to tsunami stricken south east Asia for what?

Rice patties?

That isn't any different than what other countries did. As a matter of fact the Netherlands sent over 100 million euros (which is already more than 100 dollars) while our population is only 16 million people.

Oh, and convicted murders should not have the death penalty? How is that civilized?

Yep, death penalty is wrong. The justice system isn't without flaws and death penalty isn't reversible. One innocent person getting executed is worse than 1000 murderers alive rotting away in a cell. Who knows how many people have been put to death innocent by the American justice system? I do: too many.

And who's fault is that? The US or the corrupt governments who run those poor countries?

Both, since the American government supports many of those governments. For example Uzbekistan.

I believe the Spanish wiped out the Aztecs and the Mayas.

The US went into Vietnam to stop the invasion of the Communist government of North Vietnam into South Vietnam. You can now see how badly the North Vietnamese treat not only their own people, but the people of South Vietnam as well.

We been through the atomic bombs of WWII discussion already. The nuclear weapons used on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were used instead of a full scale invasion of main land Japan (eclipsing the D-Day invasion of Normandy several times). The death projections were in the millions, for both sides. Either use a magical bomb that can end the war today or continue the war for another 5 years? You decide, Mr. Anti-War.

It was the Soviet Union itself that continued it's conquest after WWII, not the US. Winston Churchill feared it would happen if Stalin gained too much power during WWII.

Those Spanish people are the ones who started the continent America. I'm sure the English immigrants ones also killed many original inhabitants. Besides that didn't you ever see the cowboys and indians movies? To the indians your ancestors were exactly what the nazis were to my ancestors, only these nazis over here lost their conquest.

The USA went to war in Vietnam to stop communism, to stop the Soviet Union from getting more support in the world. Not to save those poor Vietnamese people, but simply to stay the biggest superpower in the world.

Your reasoning around dropping atom bombs is sickening. Magic bomb to stop the war. Your twisted thoughts about this topic disgust me. The long term effects were known when they dropped the bombs on those cities full with innocent people who were in a worse position than the American citizens during that war. That act is inexcusable whether the Japanese government was correct or not.


In my opinion the USA government and Soviet Union kremlin are/were equally guilty to the cold war. Pointing intercontinental ballistic nuclear rockets at another nation's cities isn't very civilized to begin with. I never said the USA is less civilized than the Soviet Union / Russia, because it is more civilized in a lot of ways.


I still stand by my original statement that the USA isn't the most civilized nation in the world, but that doesn't mean I would refuse to drink a beer with some of you savages.

 

[smellysocks12]

USA is the only Super Power I care for. As a leading nation in the world, it does some dirty work, but that's politics for you. Are there a major nation in the world that never gets its' hands dirty? To me, it's very simple. I'd rather have USA as the worlds' sole Super Power. Not the Imperial Japan/Nazi Germany, Soviet Union, Communist China(we still have to watch out for this one). Seriously, those nations would've invaded the whole world, if it wasn't for the U.S., IMO. The U.S. either played a major role in destroying them, or are keep them in check.

Japan has some stains in their history, but currently, they are one of the most peaceful nations in the world. Yes, China and Koreas still accuse Japan of it's militant past, but today, role has reversed. It's the Japanese trying to talk things over, while China, South and North Korea, who are the aggressors

Looks like Canada has a lot of support in this thread, and for good reason. I have never heard of Canadian government carrying out genocide or anything like that. 👍 Since clean "history" is part of the contest, my vote is for Canada for now.

Yeah, the USA is the best super power from a western, developed country's point of view. It's better than the ones you mentioned as well in my opinion, though the politics are often TOO aggressive and biased. They decide to take one dictator out, yet keep another one in place because "he might come in handy some day".

China definitely doesn't have a clean history either (Nepal and Taiwan isues, Mao was their Stalin)... though South Korea isn't an aggressor at all. That's probably the 2nd most civilized country in Asia next to Japan.

I agree with most of your post though.

 

[Solid Fro]

No they didn't, they ignored the UN investigation which wasn't completed yet and went to action right away. If the USA did find WMD then why didn't I hear about it?

You don't want to hear it, that is why. From stockpiles of artillery shells filled with Sarin to French made cruise missiles and Russian made MiG fighters buried in the sand. All illegal under UN regulations.

Maybe the USA re-wrote their own version of the Geneva conventions then. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

Absolutely delusional.

I guess blowing yourself up and taking a school bus filled with children with you makes you a bonafied freedom fighter.

A captured terrorist has the same rights as any other POW.

No, they do not. You must wear a recognized uniform and symbol identifying yourself under the Geneva Conventions, not America's super-duper version. Terrorists do not wear such things.

No chance to get a good education unless your parents have the funds to afford it for you.

No medical healthcare for everyone.

No proper rehabilitation system.

Not much is done to reduce poverty within the own American borders.

You must earn your education, not pay for it. Looks like this is the beginning of Socialism.

That isn't any different than what other countries did. As a matter of fact the Netherlands sent over 100 million euros (which is already more than 100 dollars) while our population is only 16 million people.

Like I give a **** what the Netherlands did.

You said the US does nothing for other countries, unless it wants something. I gave you an example of the US helping other counties, without anything in return, and now you say it's not good enough because the Netherlands did it too?

👎

Yep, death penalty is wrong. The justice system isn't without flaws and death penalty isn't reversible. One innocent person getting executed is worse than 1000 murderers alive rotting away in a cell. Who knows how many people have been put to death innocent by the American justice system? I do: too many.

I wonder if the US caught Osama bin Laden tomorrow, would you want the death penalty on him? Or do you want him to rot away in a cell, fed, and clothed with your tax dollars?

Hmmmm...

Besides that didn't you ever see the cowboys and indians movies? To the indians your ancestors were exactly what the nazis were to my ancestors, only these nazis over here lost their conquest.

Oh yeah! Base your whole hypothesis on Cowboy and Indian movies!



Sorry dude, you just lost.

 

[Danoff]

i believe a nation can be deemed civilised by its actions,

US is the most charitable nation on earth and probably in the history of the earth.

how it treats others,

Fairly.

how it treats its own citizens (ie sick, poor, disabled),

Fairly. The US steals less from its citizens to redistribute property unfairly than the other countries listed here.

its view of the world (foreign policy, foreign aid etc),

Again, the US is top in foreign aid and has a strong record in foreign policy.

how others nations view that nation,

Who gives a rat's a*s?

and by its history.

Freedom.

 

[a6m5]

Yeah, the USA is the best super power from a western, developed country's point of view. It's better than the ones you mentioned as well in my opinion, though the politics are often TOO aggressive and biased. They decide to take one dictator out, yet keep another one in place because "he might come in handy some day".

China definitely doesn't have a clean history either (Nepal and Taiwan isues, Mao was their Stalin)... though South Korea isn't an aggressor at all. That's probably the 2nd most civilized country in Asia next to Japan.

I agree with most of your post though.

That's funny. I was thinking same thing about your post. 👍

While I'm a fan of U.S., I do understand your concerns regarding US's foreign policies. Some of the moves by the American, like the invasion of Iraq is definitely questionable and I didn't agree with it either. Overall though, the good the Americans did/do easily outweigh the bad, IMO.

Regarding South Korea, yes they are not as bad as China and North Korea. However, not many people know about the disputed island, claimed by both Japan and South Korea. While Japan is trying to have an discussion with the S. Korean government over this issue, South Korea continues to occupy the island with their military. They also have refused Japan's suggestion to settle the issue in the World Court.

Just this year, they argued that new Japanese history text books are down playing the Japanese WWII atrocities. Unfortunately they didn't stop there. The protesters started burning Japanese flags, the S.K. government are in the process of erasing Japanese language from their language(food names, "Sea of Japan", etc.). Also, if I remember correctly, they also hinted switching sides in the case of Taiwan invasion. Maybe those in favor of siding with China should live with their northern neighbors for while. 👎

 

[livemusic]

Who gives a rat's a*s?

And that´s why so many people around the world love you guys.

 

[Sage]

So, that makes us uncivilized? There are plenty of things I don't give a rat's a*s about – does that make them wrong?

It's called not succumbing to peer pressure.

 

[a6m5]

FatAss: Keep in mind, it's an arrogant attitude of an individual(s), not the United States of America.

 

[Max_DC]

That's funny. I was thinking same thing about your post. 👍

While I'm a fan of U.S., I do understand your concerns regarding US's foreign policies. Some of the moves by the American, like the invasion of Iraq is definitely questionable and I didn't agree with it either. Overall though, the good the Americans did/do easily outweigh the bad, IMO.

Regarding South Korea, yes they are not as bad as China and North Korea. However, not many people know about the disputed island, claimed by both Japan and South Korea. While Japan is trying to have an discussion with the S. Korean government over this issue, South Korea continues to occupy the island with their military. They also have refused Japan's suggestion to settle the issue in the World Court.

Just this year, they argued that new Japanese history text books are down playing the Japanese WWII atrocities. Unfortunately they didn't stop there. The protesters started burning Japanese flags, the S.K. government are in the process of erasing Japanese language from their language(food names, "Sea of Japan", etc.). Also, if I remember correctly, they also hinted switching sides in the case of Taiwan invasion. Maybe those in favor of siding with China should live with their northern neighbors for while. 👎

And you should not forget the fact that most of the demonstrating people were FAKE, all sent out by the Chinese government who doesn't want to give Japan a permanent place in the UN ( don't know the correct English term) " security council " and that's it... lying bastards you know just like little children... well however...

Honestly, I just waited that someone will name the USA in this topic...
Read through smelly socks posts and you will see why the USA certainly is not the most civilised country in the world... i would even say that it is on the last places : Sure, they did and do a lot for the world : Nobody can deny that, but they do 2 or 3 times more bad things than good ones and that is the problem :

All these wars ... freedom for the world, well yeah and you believe that or what ?
They fought for gaining power ( every war since WW2, except WW2 of course), Korea, Vietnam, supporting Afghanistan and Iraq against communists and Islamic influence; or for oil as Bush in the actual Iraq war....

Kyoto Protocoll : I don't know the exact figures, but I'd say the US is by far the worst destroyer of the environment in the world : They burn fossils like nobody else, have the highest emmission and their companies destroy the rain forests and
sell things like DDT still in third world countries...

All the third world countries are dependent on US companies who force the local farmers to buy their hybrid plants, that need special expensive treatment > all farmers are broke and 100% dependent on these companies.
In general the US capatialism is a hardcore agressive act, that doesn't care for anything else than profit....

Living in the US can be great if you have money and horrible if you are poor....
(> smelly socks posts)

Racism is a big issue in the US

300 million guns in private hands in the US... = civilised

US double morals : concerning sex, violence, murder, religion...

I could go on for hours... sorry but in this topic nobody can name the US without failing....

Notice, I am not Anti US or anything, because politics and economy are basically in the hands of the upper 10000, in every country of the world... The average US Citicen is not responsible for the things above, although you have - as every country has - a good percentage of complete idiots... but as I said, that'S the case in every country.... I mean I really believe the average marine, who says he fights for the freedom of Iraq or whatever... he risks his life for that and I respect that, but his boss sent him for oil and power and therefor abuses him....

 

[the_undrtaker89]

I think it was sweden or switzerland that was like the most peacefull place on earth. I can't remember, but there are some really good statistics about it on the cia's website.

 

[a6m5]

And you should not forget the fact that most of the demonstrating people were FAKE, all sent out by the Chinese government who doesn't want to give Japan a permanent place in the UN ( don't know the correct English term) " security council " and that's it... lying bastards you know just like little children... well however...

Max, I was talking about the South Korean demonstrators. Chinese were far worse, but like you said, it was the Chinese government behind the whole thing. Power of brainwashing.

P.S. I don't see poverty in the U.S. as serious as some of you suggest. If you don't do drugs, spend money wisely and last but not least.... actually work, U.S. is a great place to live. Most of the struggling people I see here are people who's too lazy to work, or people with issues(drugs, single parents). Food's so cheap here, you'll never starve.

 

[Solid Fro]

Honestly, I just waited that someone will name the USA in this topic...
Read through smelly socks posts and you will see why the USA certainly is not the most civilised country in the world...

Unfortunately, we just proved 98% of what smellysocks just said to be false.

For being "uncivilized", it's a miracle that I can spell civilized correctly.

They fought for gaining power ( every war since WW2, except WW2 of course), Korea, Vietnam, supporting Afghanistan and Iraq against communists and Islamic influence; or for oil as Bush in the actual Iraq war....

Incorrect.

Korea - North Korea, under the control of the Soviet Union attacked South Korean forces, in order to "unify" Korea under Stalin's Soviet control. US and UN forces defended South Korea from the Soviet invasion.

Vietnam - US involvement was gradual over time after the French failed to pacify Vietnam. The US escalated the war after continued attacks by the Communist controlled North Vietnam into South Vietnam.

Iraq (1990) - After Iraq's invasion of Kuwait, Kuwaiti oil fields, and disobedience of UN Resolution 660, the US repelled Saddam's forces from Kuwait and destroyed them in 39 days.

Afghanistan - The safe haven of the Taliban, a known terrorists regime who aided support to Al-Queda in the 9/11 attacks. The US eradicated the Taliban and liberated Afghanistan from their dictatorship.

Iraq (2003) - US involvement was gradual after the Iraqi Liberation Act, passed by Congress and Saddam's refusal of UN Regulations, weapon inspections, and Human rights laws. UN Resolution 1441, drafted unanimously by the UN, threatened Saddam with "serious consequences", if Saddam did not comply with the UN.



Wikipedia is your friend, if you don't like history books...

Kyoto Protocoll : I don't know the exact figures, but I'd say the US is by far the worst destroyer of the environment in the world : They burn fossils like nobody else, have the highest emmission and their companies destroy the rain forests and
sell things like DDT still in third world countries...

As stated in the "Global Warming" thread, the Kyoto Protocol is a waste of tax payer's money.

Living in the US can be great if you have money and horrible if you are poor....
(> smelly socks posts)

Racism is a big issue in the US

300 million guns in private hands in the US... = civilised

US double morals : concerning sex, violence, murder, religion...

A lot of empty statements there. Show me some facts.

Notice, I am not Anti US or anything... although you have - as every country has - a good percentage of complete idiots...

So, let me get this straight. You are not Anti-American, but you will call Americans "idiots"?

I mean I really believe the average marine, who says he fights for the freedom of Iraq or whatever... he risks his life for that and I respect that, but his boss sent him for oil and power and therefor abuses him....

Bull****.

You support the troops, but not the war?

I love your logic.

 

[Max_DC]

Unfortunately, we just proved 98% of what smellysocks just said to be false.

For being "uncivilized", it's a miracle that I can spell civilized correctly.

Please notice that I am not a native speaking American. Probably my German, French and Latin is better than yours...

Incorrect.

Korea - North Korea, under the control of the Soviet Union attacked South Korean forces, in order to "unify" Korea under Stalin's Soviet control. US and UN forces defended South Korea from the Soviet invasion.

Vietnam - US involvement was gradual over time after the French failed to pacify Vietnam. The US escalated the war after continued attacks by the Communist controlled North Vietnam into South Vietnam.

Iraq (1990) - After Iraq's invasion of Kuwait, Kuwaiti oil fields, and disobedience of UN Resolution 660, the US repelled Saddam's forces from Kuwait and destroyed them in 39 days.

Afghanistan - The safe haven of the Taliban, a known terrorists regime who aided support to Al-Queda in the 9/11 attacks. The US eradicated the Taliban and liberated Afghanistan from their dictatorship.

Iraq (2003) - US involvement was gradual after the Iraqi Liberation Act, passed by Congress and Saddam's refusal of UN Regulations, weapon inspections, and Human rights laws. UN Resolution 1441, drafted unanimously by the UN, threatened Saddam with "serious consequences", if Saddam did not comply with the UN.



Wikipedia is your friend, if you don't like history books...

Korea, Vietnam and Afghanistan were what we call ( word by word translation, might be wrong term in proper English) " Deputy wars" and of course the Soviet Union was not better... the US governement gave a shi** about the people in Vietnam, they just wanted to stop the ideology of their enemy.

Also I didn't talk about the recent war in Afghanistan, but about the role of the US as they supported the Taliban in their fight against the SU... but I didn't say this exactly, so not your fault...

As stated in the "Global Warming" thread, the Kyoto Protocol is a waste of tax payer's money.

Stated by whom ? Somebody who doesn't know what he/she was talking about like you ? Wow... now you convinced me....
Of course destroying the planet is cheaper than taking responsibility...

A lot of empty statements there. Show me some facts.

Your social system is not really caring for the people, and well you know that don't you? Although I have to admit that this point is not really a good one, because forcing people to work for money is not that bad....

I have to tell you facts about racism ? Where do you live ?

300 million guns is a number = facts ( ok i don't know the exact abmout, but you have more guns than people, and again I'm not talking about the military )

duoble morals : sex - violence - murder - religion : If a woman shows her breasts half America goes crazy, but 10 year old boys and girls on a shooting range are ok

Murder : many of you say that they believe in God, but they agree to murder murderers

Religion : you don't like the Taliban, but have about every religious freak I can imagin in your country ( uncountable little extreme groups, or the Amish etc ) Ok tha land of the free... again I don't care, but you should understand islamic extremists best !

So, let me get this straight. You are not Anti-American, but you will call Americans "idiots"?

Yes, I do, and I said that every nation is full of idiots, maybe a bit harsh, but I'd say that here in Germany about 30 % of the people are just silly : They just can't see the " whole thing " you know, they see their own little business and that's it, and they don't have a lot of knowledge, if history, politics or science... they are just happy with their beer and TV at night, these kind of people are in every nation, and well I'd say that in your country the percentage is not so low...

Bull****.

You support the troops, but not the war?

I love your logic.

I don't support your troops, I say that the motivation of the average American ( soldier or not ) might be a good one ( morally ), but they are just the instrument ( >GI ) of the oil lobby....

 

[Solid Fro]

Please notice that I am not a native speaking American. Probably my German, French and Latin is better than yours...

Oh, boo hoo. Use spell check, more specifically, one with an English dictionary, not an "American" one.

Korea, Vietnam and Afghanistan were what we call ( word by word translation, might be wrong term in proper English) " Deputy wars" and of course the Soviet Union was not better... the US governement gave a shi** about the people in Vietnam, they just wanted to stop the ideology of their enemy.

Proof? I gave facts, where's yours?

Stated by whom ? Somebody who doesn't know what he/she was talking about like you ? Wow... now you convinced me....
Of course destroying the planet is cheaper than taking responsibility...

Oh, so danoff doesn't know what he is talking about? I would like to see you tell that to his face.

You might want to read that thread over again.

The Kyoto agreement was crap, and I'm glad we didn't sign up. It wouldn't have done much more than waste money.

300 million guns is a number = facts ( ok i don't know the exact abmout, but you have more guns than people, and again I'm not talking about the military )

So, you go around posting empty statements without facts? So much for your credibility...

I don't support your troops, I say that the motivation of the average American ( soldier or not ) might be a good one ( morally ), but they are just the instrument ( >GI ) of the oil lobby....

Let me get this straight. You don't support the troops and you don't support the war, yet you state the troops are morally right to do what they do?



Where is Mr. Spock when you need him?