Who can do an F1 game right?

[MagpieRacer]

I always appreciate a mature and balanced view. I also agree we are too much in a tush to call something trash or disaster.

At the same time…just for myself, I know 100% that the F1 2023, 2024 is not the same quality of a game as GT7. Yet, it costs the same. I am able to play GT7 and for me the experience is very solid. Tore deg predictable, TC and other assists too. I see a lot of passion for cars and racing. Noone told me anything about GT7, I just tried it and it was amazing. Not perfect. When I compare an F1 game to it that costs the same, I know what I think - to me, it is not worth it. In fact, seeing what GT7 is, I think it should cost more.

And yet to long term Gran Turismo fans, such as me, it doesn't even rank in the top 3 in the series. Like the F1 games, it's all a matter of perspective. F1 and Gran Turismo are completely different beasts with completely different requirements in development, hard to compare. And PD haven't exactly got clean hands when it comes to messing with the physics update to update.

 

[Lightpilgrim]

I am in no contest to say much as I simply have no knowledge and experience, like you. And I respect what you say…I see some glimpses of it: event the change from 1.55 to 1.56. Also I came to realize the times in CE had to be adjusted due to the change of physics.

But think about a person, like me that has no historical knowledge. I only know GT7, F1 23 and 24 and tried iRacing and ACC. For PS5…for me…between GT7 and F1 24 there is no contest and like I said, it is unfair to pay the same money for a game that has a life span of 6-8 months and is in a „beta” stage for most of this period.

And yet to long term Gran Turismo fans, such as me, it doesn't even rank in the top 3 in the series. Like the F1 games, it's all a matter of perspective. F1 and Gran Turismo are completely different beasts with completely different requirements in development, hard to compare. And PD haven't exactly got clean hands when it comes to messing with the physics update to update.

 

[m355y]

Much as in many ways GT7 is absolutely mighty, for me easily the weakest part of the package is the actual offline racing. I've recently been stockpiling the new Formula car and trying to recreate a full '92 F1 grid, and I'm pretty much there. I've even tried to adjust the PP for individual cars to make the Williams fastest etc, and when you set it up and get to turn one it looks incredible and you think 'this is the only racing game I'll ever need'. Then you actually start racing and it's a bit....deflating. The challenge just isn't there for me. Maybe I'll have a nice battle for the lead till the first stop, then for no obvious reason I'll emerge from the stops with a ten second lead, or the other car will just randomly slow and I'll just feel like the game is handing it to me, and it's just so frustrating.

For all its foibles, a game like F1 23 or ACC offers a consistent challenge. Ofcourse it's not as wide ranging and varied as GT, it's a different type of game entirely.

Maybe all this thread shows is that we're all looking for something slightly different from these games? Nobody's actually wrong, just coming from a slightly different angle.

 

[Lightpilgrim]

It might be. My main issue with the F1 game is this: it is released as a Beta product in May/June, has a life-span of 6-8 months for most people, it costs premium and it is more or less stable by Dec when the F1 season is over.

Much as in many ways GT7 is absolutely mighty, for me easily the weakest part of the package is the actual offline racing. I've recently been stockpiling the new Formula car and trying to recreate a full '92 F1 grid, and I'm pretty much there. I've even tried to adjust the PP for individual cars to make the Williams fastest etc, and when you set it up and get to turn one it looks incredible and you think 'this is the only racing game I'll ever need'. Then you actually start racing and it's a bit....deflating. The challenge just isn't there for me. Maybe I'll have a nice battle for the lead till the first stop, then for no obvious reason I'll emerge from the stops with a ten second lead, or the other car will just randomly slow and I'll just feel like the game is handing it to me, and it's just so frustrating.

For all its foibles, a game like F1 23 or ACC offers a consistent challenge. Ofcourse it's not as wide ranging and varied as GT, it's a different type of game entirely.

Maybe all this thread shows is that we're all looking for something slightly different from these games? Nobody's actually wrong, just coming from a slightly different angle.

 

[MagpieRacer]

It might be. My main issue with the F1 game is this: it is released as a Beta product in May/June, has a life-span of 6-8 months for most people, it costs premium and it is more or less stable by Dec when the F1 season is over.

I mean, I dunno, beta product? Nah I don't think that can be levelled at '24. Had a few bugs that were fixed quickly and some which were clearly trickier to negotiate (new track models etc) but beta? Not a chance. I've played F1 games in beta stages before and, that ain't it. Again, could be your lack of experience or GT7 seemingly setting an unrealistic bar for you (and let me tell you, that game did NOT have a smooth launch period.

I agree with the lifespan stuff etc, but as F1 fans and F1 gamers, we all know this, every year, and buy it anyway, perhaps if sales start dwindling sharply, the price point or selling format will shift but I can't see that happening for a while. I also don't think there's a solution to that side of it that would appease everyone. You could see it launch just before or at the start of the season and have a live service update model with paid yearly expansions and whatnot, but FOM probably won't be happy with that and selling expansions for less money, i.e. not premium, probably wouldn't cover the license and ongoing development costs. A chunk of fans might not get behind a live service model and yearly expansion due to lack of room to grow within the confines of a single title effectively.

Release later in the season will work once before ending up on the same cycle again, gives one title the chance to accelerate ahead with 6 months extra Dev time. Fans would bemoan it came too late in the season, F1 is over and it'll be out of date in 2 months but hey we got a relatively bug free game.

F1 games ultimately will always carry a premium price tag, annually, until the series completely falls flat on its face, F1 '24 commercially has had a huge stumble, but hasn't quite hit the deck. Even if CM did fall flat on their face and 2025 is the last title they release, the next Dev will just go into the same cycle of probably lower quality and we won't have an F1 game for 2 years again and miss the 2026 regs, new team, new tracks etc.

Unless milestone did it, but, yeah.

 

[Lightpilgrim]

Again, a matter of words. Until a certain patch, probably 1.14 I was able to race normally…but then something happened:
1. Ferrari engine sound got broken
2. Tires lasted 2-3 laps and then it was an abrupt loss of grip, not gradual. I was able to easily win races early in the game, but after a certain patch I had no idea how to preserve tires

It almost was launched in a better shape then it became after patches.

Imagine you purchase a real car like this:-) You would not call it a final product. Or imaging you purchase an iPhone and it never takes a single consistent picture. Or imagine you purchase an espresso machine and time after time get a very different coffee taste and quality even though each time you do precisely the same thing.

I do not know. I was not able to learn anything because things were changing all the time. I am able to learn a lot in GT7. I was just thinking I am useless when I played F1. I see that I can actually progress and be solid one day with GT7.

I tried to like it, but it did not work for me. I purchase PS5 only for F1. I was not even planking to get GT7. But I ended up in a different place than I thought.

People can do what they want with their money. If folks are happy, they will purchase F1 2025 and it will sell well. I am not going to have the same experience again. Just not a good quality product for me. And no feedback is heard. So if they do not care, what we can do:-)

I mean, I dunno, beta product? Nah I don't think that can be levelled at '24. Had a few bugs that were fixed quickly and some which were clearly trickier to negotiate (new track models etc) but beta? Not a chance. I've played F1 games in beta stages before and, that ain't it. Again, could be your lack of experience or GT7 seemingly setting an unrealistic bar for you (and let me tell you, that game did NOT have a smooth launch period.

I agree with the lifespan stuff etc, but as F1 fans and F1 gamers, we all know this, every year, and buy it anyway, perhaps if sales start dwindling sharply, the price point or selling format will shift but I can't see that happening for a while. I also don't think there's a solution to that side of it that would appease everyone. You could see it launch just before or at the start of the season and have a live service update model with paid yearly expansions and whatnot, but FOM probably won't be happy with that and selling expansions for less money, i.e. not premium, probably wouldn't cover the license and ongoing development costs. A chunk of fans might not get behind a live service model and yearly expansion due to lack of room to grow within the confines of a single title effectively.

Release later in the season will work once before ending up on the same cycle again, gives one title the chance to accelerate ahead with 6 months extra Dev time. Fans would bemoan it came too late in the season, F1 is over and it'll be out of date in 2 months but hey we got a relatively bug free game.

F1 games ultimately will always carry a premium price tag, annually, until the series completely falls flat on its face, F1 '24 commercially has had a huge stumble, but hasn't quite hit the deck. Even if CM did fall flat on their face and 2025 is the last title they release, the next Dev will just go into the same cycle of probably lower quality and we won't have an F1 game for 2 years again and miss the 2026 regs, new team, new tracks etc.

Unless milestone did it, but, yeah.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Again, a matter of words. Until a certain patch, probably 1.14 I was able to race normally…but then something happened:
1. Ferrari engine sound got broken
2. Tires lasted 2-3 laps and then it was an abrupt loss of grip, not gradual. I was able to easily win races early in the game, but after a certain patch I had no idea how to preserve tires

It almost was launched in a better shape then it became after patches.

Imagine you purchase a real car like this:-) You would not call it a final product. Or imaging you purchase an iPhone and it never takes a single consistent picture. Or imagine you purchase an espresso machine and time after time get a very different coffee taste and quality even though each time you do precisely the same thing.

I do not know. I was not able to learn anything because things were changing all the time. I am able to learn a lot in GT7. I was just thinking I am useless when I played F1. I see that I can actually progress and be solid one day with GT7.

I tried to like it, but it did not work for me. I purchase PS5 only for F1. I was not even planking to get GT7. But I ended up in a different place than I thought.

People can do what they want with their money. If folks are happy, they will purchase F1 2025 and it will sell well. I am not going to have the same experience again. Just not a good quality product for me. And no feedback is heard. So if they do not care, what we can do:-)

Can't speak for the tyre wear thing or grip, I haven't noticed that as an issue.

What did you think about the 3 or 4 physics changes there have been in GT7?

 

[Lightpilgrim]

Can't speak for the tyre wear thing or grip, I haven't noticed that as an issue.

What did you think about the 3 or 4 physics changes there have been in GT7?

I started playing GT7 on Dec 31. I do not know if there was a physics change since then. I did not notice anything. For me it is a very consistent experience so far. I am genuinely a bit shocked how much you get and for how long for the same price as an F1 game. If GT7 was 150$, it would be worth every penny for me

 

[NickGuy]

yeaaaaaa.....I do not want PD anywhere near the F1 license. GT7 is one of the most nakedly greedy shady and worst GT experiences IMO, if the F1 games ever became DRM that would be the end of it for me. Can't speak on iRacing but since that's PC only, I don't want them on it either.

Like the other poster said, Codemasters does a fine job. Not great, things could be much improved on the immersion front (can we get a real upgrade/development system instead of just a checklist please) but ever since 2019, when I came back to the series after 2012, there is not a single racing game out there with a better career mode. This is a massive deal and the selling point for me

On a physics front I think the grip levels could be much improved, 21-22-23 were way too slippery, these cars have so much grip. Watching quali in Australia and there's so many corners where the drivers can plant it full throttle through a turn that you just can't on the game. It's just that kind of stuff that I find myself disagreeing with alot of other players of the game, alot of times these "sims" end up being more unforgiving than real life. I have seen some vids of Assetto Corsa mods with F1 cars, I almost thought it was real life lol. However I am hearing that e-sports drivers are giving feedback and helping with f1 25 development so my hope for more realistic grip is low.

 

[Lightpilgrim]

There must be either something wrong with me or we are so different or I do not know what.

The f1 2024 is not worth anything and I am not surprised that 7 months after the release you could get a 85% discount. Sales are decreasing 40% year on year. But ok…if there are people like you who enjoy it and rate above GT7 - that is great.

I know that the only reason I purchased PS5 was an F1 game. But as soon as I saw GT7, I realized what a good racing game should be. To me….these two cannot even be in the same conversation.

p.S. I do consider f1 2024 visually amazing

yeaaaaaa.....I do not want PD anywhere near the F1 license. GT7 is one of the most nakedly greedy shady and worst GT experiences IMO, if the F1 games ever became DRM that would be the end of it for me. Can't speak on iRacing but since that's PC only, I don't want them on it either.

Like the other poster said, Codemasters does a fine job. Not great, things could be much improved on the immersion front (can we get a real upgrade/development system instead of just a checklist please) but ever since 2019, when I came back to the series after 2012, there is not a single racing game out there with a better career mode. This is a massive deal and the selling point for me

On a physics front I think the grip levels could be much improved, 21-22-23 were way too slippery, these cars have so much grip. Watching quali in Australia and there's so many corners where the drivers can plant it full throttle through a turn that you just can't on the game. It's just that kind of stuff that I find myself disagreeing with alot of other players of the game, alot of times these "sims" end up being more unforgiving than real life. I have seen some vids of Assetto Corsa mods with F1 cars, I almost thought it was real life lol. However I am hearing that e-sports drivers are giving feedback and helping with f1 25 development so my hope for more realistic grip is low.

 

[NickGuy]

GT7 is not a great racing game to me. The on-track stuff may be great, but it is massively ruined by all the other negatives of the game, and DRM is a killer. I would not want PD to be the only ones to make an f1 game.

I don't really know if I can honestly say the F1 series is a great racing game, but it definitely delivers the best career mode of any racing game that I've played, so for me it's a great racing game. Sales are down, but AFAIK, the f1 games were always super niche, I don't think it's realistic to expect Madden level sales or to even think that another developer would suddenly make F1 games mega popular. F1 may be gaining popularity in America but it still is nowhere near the selling power of NFL/NBA/MLB/even NHL. Maybe that will change, but I don't think you can go "iRacing is making the f1 games from now on" and voila all problems are solved. it would still be yearly, it would end up feeling copy pasted, there would still be bugs.

If you are asking can anyone do a better job of the on-track stuff than Codemasters, I would say yeah probably, if laser scanning tracks, 1:1 realistic physics etc. are what you mean. I don't know that I necessarily want a different developer on this. EA buying the F1 games I think turned alot of people off too, but the problems that the games have are not EA's fault. They were copy paste before they were purchased. At least with EA they are forced to try some kind of new idea or gimmick every year, it's not great but it's...something?

 

[Lightpilgrim]

I respect your opinion being very different to mine, bit because it is so different, I do not think there is anything valuable I can get. Maybe only that it is good to have variety: you can enjoy F1 game and I am massively enjoying GT7. And that is all that matters.

GT7 is not a great racing game to me. The on-track stuff may be great, but it is massively ruined by all the other negatives of the game, and DRM is a killer. I would not want PD to be the only ones to make an f1 game.

I don't really know if I can honestly say the F1 series is a great racing game, but it definitely delivers the best career mode of any racing game that I've played, so for me it's a great racing game. Sales are down, but AFAIK, the f1 games were always super niche, I don't think it's realistic to expect Madden level sales or to even think that another developer would suddenly make F1 games mega popular. F1 may be gaining popularity in America but it still is nowhere near the selling power of NFL/NBA/MLB/even NHL. Maybe that will change, but I don't think you can go "iRacing is making the f1 games from now on" and voila all problems are solved. it would still be yearly, it would end up feeling copy pasted, there would still be bugs.

If you are asking can anyone do a better job of the on-track stuff than Codemasters, I would say yeah probably, if laser scanning tracks, 1:1 realistic physics etc. are what you mean. I don't know that I necessarily want a different developer on this. EA buying the F1 games I think turned alot of people off too, but the problems that the games have are not EA's fault. They were copy paste before they were purchased. At least with EA they are forced to try some kind of new idea or gimmick every year, it's not great but it's...something?

 

[MagpieRacer]

There must be either something wrong with me or we are so different or I do not know what.

The f1 2024 is not worth anything and I am not surprised that 7 months after the release you could get a 85% discount. Sales are decreasing 40% year on year. But ok…if there are people like you who enjoy it and rate above GT7 - that is great.

I know that the only reason I purchased PS5 was an F1 game. But as soon as I saw GT7, I realized what a good racing game should be. To me….these two cannot even be in the same conversation.

p.S. I do consider f1 2024 visually amazing

There's nothing wrong with you, it's just a different opinion, where yours is coming from a place of self confessed inexperience and others are drawing on a bit more experience of all racing games over the years. @NickGuy is right in that GT7 on the whole isn't a great game, it's certainly a long way behind previous Gran Turismo entries and from the perspective of single player racing and career modes, it is behind the F1 series which is well known for its competency in in track racing capability and solid career modes. The open wheel physics are probably not far apart and F1 does a better job of tyre wear simulation, damage, sound (though there's no direct comparison on physics and sound) and wheel to wheel racing. I know the games aren't comparable as they're very different things but you keep bringing GT7 up so the comparisons now have to be made. Gran Turismo 7 is visually better yes but Gran Turismo tends to be the visual leader on whatever given console it launches on and even then it can still look bland. F1 has been visually similar over the last few years which affects people's perception of improvement and/or development (though it does look outstanding on the PS5 Pro).

Every F1 game gets massive discounts around the same time, as the sales taper off, the new season anticipation ramps up and the game inevitably heads to EA Play/Game Pass Ultimate, it's a last hurrah to sell a few more copies, so that isn't an indicator of a games success. Yes F1 '24 had weaker sale than previous games, despite it having a much stronger driver career mode than previous and in my opinion one of the more engaging physics interpretations of recent years too. It shows the negative impact that a select few can have on a game in eSports and the creators/influencers. It has it's issues sure but it's not worthless, it's far from the worst F1 game ever made and it's far from the worst F1 game Codemasters have made.

Gran Turismo 7 has more of an argument for being the worst in the series than F1 '24 does. But that's a whole different discussion and argument.

 

[Lightpilgrim]

I am not going to debate, guys. I am not a shareholder of PD. I am pretty sure there are issues everywhere. I love F1 and was very disappointed with f1 2024 and not with the state it was released in but how many times it was changed in a short span and how mamy issues were introduced and never fixed

I cannot compare GT7 to previous iterations. Can only compare it to F1 2024.
I do not know what is wrong with it - for me, everything is working beautifully. I am able to learn, progress and sharpen my skills. I am massively- massively enjoying it! I want to get better and it takes time. With GT7, I know I have it for many years.

 

[NickGuy]

I am not going to debate, guys. I am not a shareholder of PD. I am pretty sure there are issues everywhere. I love F1 and was very disappointed with f1 2024 and not with the state it was released in but how many times it was changed in a short span and how mamy issues were introduced and never fixed

I cannot compare GT7 to previous iterations. Can only compare it to F1 2024.
I do not know what is wrong with it - for me, everything is working beautifully. I am able to learn, progress and sharpen my skills. I am massively- massively enjoying it! I want to get better and it takes time. With GT7, I know I have it for many years.

You aren't wrong to feel disappointed by 24. I was as well, I thought 23 was heading in a great direction and it just needed better traction out of corners (apparently this sentiment was echoed by real f1 drivers as well) but it seems that codemasters went overboard and the game ended up feeling not great for anyone. All I can really say is that the experience of the career mode and singleplayer offering is what draws me to the f1 games over gt7 (not to mention drm) but if your goal is more on the competitive side then you arent wrong for choosing gt7, the f1 online experience is pretty garbage lol

I really really hope 25 brings back the things that worked in the past while keeping the good things from 24 (i for one think the tyre model in 24 is the best ive felt in the series) like how 2020 had a real sense of weight to the cars. Not holding my breath that everything will be fixed, but...I will always stay as optimistic as I can lol

 

[Lightpilgrim]

It is hard for me to believe my own words, but after 4 months with GT7, I no longer care for an F1 game. Happy to watch F1 races as I love the sport, but after spending time on GT7, F1 games do not exist for me…at least in the form I have experienced them

 

[RACECAR]

I don't think people realize that to target a wide audience (Like F1 is given the rise in popularity), you can't go full sim. Their's a reason why GT7 is not even close to arcade but not sim either, it's "Simcade". I guarantee the upcoming NASCAR game will itself be simcade (Which is especially worth pointing out since the full sim experience is already there on iRacing itself).

Likewise if there was a licensed Indycar game, that too would be simcade.

 

[Marty_KAR]

I love to compete in endurance races (at least 1-hour), where race strategy (pit stops) is a very important part of the race. I also enjoy Career mode, and it is these two aspects of gaming where the F1 games excel over Gran Turismo.

I'm sorry, but for me, that "rubber banding" nonsense in GT7 really destroys the fun aspect of competing in longer races.

Having said that though, I will continue to race GT7, as I have done so for many years. I tend to bounce from the F1 games to Gran Turismo; ...both titles have certain features that I really enjoy.

 

[nikhahagi]

GT7 is not a great racing game to me. The on-track stuff may be great, but it is massively ruined by all the other negatives of the game, and DRM is a killer. I would not want PD to be the only ones to make an f1 game.

I don't really know if I can honestly say the F1 series is a great racing game, but it definitely delivers the best career mode of any racing game that I've played, so for me it's a great racing game. Sales are down, but AFAIK, the f1 games were always super niche, I don't think it's realistic to expect Madden level sales or to even think that another developer would suddenly make F1 games mega popular. F1 may be gaining popularity in America but it still is nowhere near the selling power of NFL/NBA/MLB/even NHL. Maybe that will change, but I don't think you can go "iRacing is making the f1 games from now on" and voila all problems are solved. it would still be yearly, it would end up feeling copy pasted, there would still be bugs.

If you are asking can anyone do a better job of the on-track stuff than Codemasters, I would say yeah probably, if laser scanning tracks, 1:1 realistic physics etc. are what you mean. I don't know that I necessarily want a different developer on this. EA buying the F1 games I think turned alot of people off too, but the problems that the games have are not EA's fault. They were copy paste before they were purchased. Although F1 has one of the best career modes among racing games, the quality of the game is really noticeable. EA, of course, brought its own specifics, but many believe that with such big players there is not enough quality at the start. I would like to see more innovations that would really improve the physics and realism of racing, like in iRacing. Of course, you can make fun of any game. For example, need for speed, gta, even casinosfest.com where I have recently been reading about a no deposit bonus. Every game will have its shortcomings and this is normal. There is always a way out of the situation. It is worth paying attention to independent studios that can offer a fresh look at license management and improving the technical side of the game. At least with EA they are forced to try some kind of new idea or gimmick every year, it's not great but it's...something?

I see your point. I think F1 needs more attention to detail, like iRacing or GT7, but without all their downsides. Maybe someone else will take the license, but I'm not sure it will improve the situation.