Who's corner is it, inside guy or outside guy?

[K3Tuning]

I thought this might be useful here as many do not seem to know who REALLY has the corner... Some think if you are not on the optimum or "common" line its not your corner even if you pull ahead and are in the lead before the corner, but they are wrong. Its not as simple as that.

This Dive Bombing thing is an issue as long as there has been online racing. However what a lot of people call dive bombing actually is not.

People in the lead down the straight seem to think they own the corner and the line through it even if they get snuck past on the inside before the corner, and from what I've seen here the argument is that the inside is not on the "common" racing line BUT it DOES NOT work that way....

Since I couldn't find any helpful info here on GTP I found some from another game as all racing games have the same issue...


""""Ever been online and been accused/accused someone of being a dirty racer? Been rammed and spun out? Hit someone and they spun out? It happens to everyone. Well I'm here to tell you about the most basic rule to remember when throwing around accusations:

Whoever has the racing line has the right of way (track position in racing speak).

I shouldn't need to tell anyone what the racing line is, but when it involves avoiding incidents it can be more than 'the optimum line around the track to keep the most speed'. The most common example of this online is two cars that are traveling side by side on a straight. One car has drafted the other, pulled alongside and they are now approaching a corner. The car that will be on the inside during the corner technically has track position, even if the corner is normally approached from the outside, and the outer driver must maintain his spot on the outside of the track through the corner.

However, that rule applies only when both cars are side by side (any part of the cars overlap lengthwise). If the outside car is ahead of the inside car by a car length or more (rear bumper in front of the inside cars front bumper) and is on the optimum racing line, the the outside car has track position and is therefore free to take whatever line he pleases through the corner. The inside driver MUST yield in this situation. If in actual F1, for example, this scenario happens and the inside driver fails to yield, an accident will most likely occur and the inside driver will be penalized by the stewards. With changing speeds, either of these scenarios can cross into the realm of the other very quickly, so you must be aware of the other car's position and closing speed as best you can. If you have any doubt, maintain your place on the track but keep your speed, so if you're on the inside and aren't sure if you're alongside the other car entering a fast corner, keep your position but don't keep accelerating should the other car move in front. Discretion is the better part of valor."""""

quoted from http://forums.codemasters.com/discu...quette-101-the-racing-line-and-track-position

Lets go over this

"Whoever has the racing line has the right of way (track position in racing speak)."

Whoever has Track Position has the right of way.... Whoever is in the lead has right of way, If you get past before the corner you DO NOT have track position, you do not have right of way, you must yield the driver who has track position, simple as that BUT seems to be complicated.

The Racing Line might not be what you think

""I shouldn't need to tell anyone what the racing line is, but when it involves avoiding incidents it can be more than 'the optimum line around the track to keep the most speed'. ""

Continuing

"The most common example of this online is two cars that are traveling side by side on a straight. One car has drafted the other, pulled alongside and they are now approaching a corner. The car that will be on the inside during the corner technically has track position, even if the corner is normally approached from the outside, and the outer driver must maintain his spot on the outside of the track through the corner."

SO lets make this CLEAR

If the Outside car is passed by the inside car BEFORE the corner, the OUTSIDE car no longer has track position, he no longer has ownership of the line and the INSIDE driver is free to take WHATEVER line he wants through the corner, outside car MUST stay outside out of his way.

The outside car cutting to the inside apex hitting the inside car cutting him off is in the wrong, the guy on the inside is in track position when side by side going in, its his corner

HOWEVER

If the OUTSIDE car is ahead of the inside car going into the corner the inside car needs to get out of his way and NOT HIT THEM PERIOD.........

Now Dive Bombing

Dive Bombing IS NOT when the inside car has track position, takes a compromised line through the corner and pushes wide, its his corner. This is when a car who DOES NOT HAVE track position goes inside and slides into the car with track position on the outside......

Its aso

 

[DesertPenguin]

please delete

 

[DesertPenguin]

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/gtplanet-online-racing-olr-rules-guidelines.184984/

 

[K3Tuning]

first one is a dead link for me. 2nd one be more helpful if you snipped the applicable info and post that

 

[DesertPenguin]

All of it is applicable to clean driving so might as well read it all 👍

 

[K3Tuning]

All of it is applicable to clean driving so might as well read it all 👍

Thats kinda not the issue or the point here. Im pretty familiar with rules of racing especially on this topic. The problem is on this site people accuse others of being dirty drivers when really its them that are dirty and maybe dont even realize it. If it was just a matter of the rules being on the board how come its an issue? I cant make somebody else go read rules.

What I can do is make a topic of discussion on the subject, try and educate people on who's corner it really is, MAYBE some of the shenanigans online and here calm down.

The helpful thing would of been to snip the applicable info and post it here

 

[LeGeNd-1]

See, I'm in the school of thought that overcomplicating these things are just pointless. It's racing. Things happen in a split second and you need a consistent and easily applied rules

IMO in theory the rules are:
1. If you're more than half a car length ahead, it's your corner, outside or inside
2. If the overlap is less than above, the inside usually has advantage purely because they will be ahead by the apex

Simple as that. Of course, depending on the car, track, subsequent corners and who you're racing against there might be slight modifications to the rule. But that's something only experience and feel will tell you. As always, racecraft is not equal in everyone so golden rule is assume the other guy is always going to force past you at no cost (especially in dive bomb prone corners e.g. hairpin after a long straight on the final lap). If ever in doubt, better just back off than crash out of the race (or get a penalty).

If you're faster than the other guy, you'll find a way past eventually. If the other guy is faster, then just let him go and save both of yourself time. Stick behind him and learn how to get better 👍

 

[DesertPenguin]

I cant make somebody else go read rules.

Unfortunately that's where the source of the problem lies. I bet a lot of people haven't read through all of that. Some people just don't want to learn

 

[K3Tuning]

That I have no argument against lolololololol

Thats why I make the topic, while its rare they go to the rules page, they see post here. If the topic picks up more and more will read some rules then inadvertently learn the rules better

See, I'm in the school of thought that overcomplicating these things are just pointless. It's racing. Things happen in a split second and you need a consistent and easily applied rules

IMO in theory the rules are:
1. If you're more than half a car length ahead, it's your corner, outside or inside
2. If the overlap is less than above, the inside usually has advantage purely because they will be ahead by the apex

Simple as that. Of course, depending on the car, track, subsequent corners and who you're racing against there might be slight modifications to the rule. But that's something only experience and feel will tell you. As always, racecraft is not equal in everyone so golden rule is assume the other guy is always going to force past you at no cost (especially in dive bomb prone corners e.g. hairpin after a long straight on the final lap). If ever in doubt, better just back off than crash out of the race (or get a penalty).

If you're faster than the other guy, you'll find a way past eventually. If the other guy is faster, then just let him go and save both of yourself time. Stick behind him and learn how to get better 👍

Yeah

more or less its that simple but the GTP crowd disagrees through likes

I got crucified for making a move on the inside. Legal Move in Racing, I scrubbed off too much speed and lost position before exit but didnt touch anybody or the wall, Im told Im out of control dive bombing lol

Out of control because my tail stepped out a sec? Seriously maybe them but not me. Furthermore Dive Bombing because I wasnt on the fast line lol

Car and a half in the lead before turn in, Im told IM DIVE BOMBING?




So Im of the opinion that many here need educating...

 

[watto79]

To me this over complicates things. I go by the rule of always leave a car width for the other car. This is true if you are on the inside or the outside, slightly ahead or slightly behind. Always make sure your opponent has track space.

What is and isn't the racing line can be open to debate. Judging how much of an overlap there is under heavy braking and in the heat of the moment is tricky to say the least.

I know my view on this can also be up for debate after the fact but I think it's a good basic principle to drive by.

I do also agree that the term dive bombing is way over used. It's often just out braking someone and making it stick.

 

[Famine]

Who's corner is it, inside guy or outside guy?

No.

Also "Whose".

 

[K3Tuning]

Unfortunately racing has some complicated aspects and its better to know and UNDERSTAND the rules then to ignore them because of complexity. Its commendable to avoid any issue by giving space or lets say ALWAYS giving way but thats not racing. When fighting for position sometimes the details of the rule are important.

No.

No... No what?

Also "Whose".

Thanks for the grammar lesson

 

[Famine]

No... No what?

It's not the inside guy's corner and it's not the outside guy's corner. So "no".

 

[K3Tuning]

It's not the inside guy's corner and it's not the outside guy's corner. So "no".

okay

Somebody likes being cryptic I see. Care to elaborate or is a next lesson on the way for me where I'm made to look foolish for needing clarification on your one word sentence and then cryptic explanation?

 

[Famine]

Somebody likes being cryptic I see. Care to elaborate or is a next lesson on the way for me where Im made to look foolish for needing clarification?

There's literally nothing cryptic about it and nothing to clarify. Your thread title is "Who's corner is it, inside guy or outside guy?" (sic) and the answer to it is "No.".

 

[K3Tuning]

There's literally nothing cryptic about it and nothing to clarify. Your thread title is "Who's corner is it, inside guy or outside guy?" (sic) and the answer to it is "No.".

Okay

The question is an A or B question so when your answer is C with no further explanation I do not understand what you mean. If you don't feel there is further explanation required well I'm sorry I don't get what you mean so I need more explanation or its a sure, whatever you say, moving on.

It sounds like you think something different and Im very interested in what that is but not sure what you expect of me since I dont understand you and you wont further explain.

Feel like Im talking to a guy who only speaks in riddles

 

[Fosterions]

The answer is give space. Inside, outside, alongside - give space. Divebombing is not giving space at high speed.

 

[K3Tuning]

But that answer is not applicable since people do not give space then come to GTP to cry foul, the rules in racing have details those details important. So many cry about Dirty drivers this and that often its THEM thats causing the problem.

I also find it funny some want to seemingly bury the topic as if this is not an issue instead of using this as an opportunity to teach people THE ACTUAL RULES of racing vs "give space" that's not applicable to 2 cars fighting for the lead in a RACE, more details specifically about who has right of way and when is critical...

The answering the question who has right of way with simply No, is seemingly like a passive aggressive attempt to start some nonsense argument.

If you saying neither of them has right of way..... Well say so, and why you believe this or is it now time to make me look foolish for trying to go over the finer points in racing rules applicable to much of the convo on GTP

 

[Famine]

The question is an A or B question so when your answer is C with no further explanation I do not understand what you mean.

The answer isn't C, it's "No", as in "Neither of these two things is the right answer", rather than "A third party, unnamed to this point, is the right answer.".

If you don't feel there is further explanation required well I'm sorry I don't get what you mean so I need more explanation or its a sure, whatever you say, moving on.

It sounds like you think something different and Im very interested in what that is but not sure what you expect of me since I dont understand you and you wont further explain.

I don't expect anything of you... I'm answering the question you posed. I've not asked anything further of you in any way. If you don't like the answer, I can only shrug.

However, I've read a few of your intervening posts and you seem to have a bit of a bee about GTPlanet for some reason:

the GTP crowd disagrees

Im of the opinion that many here need educating...

people do not give space then come to GTP to cry foul

The problem is on this site people accuse others of being dirty drivers when really its them that are dirty and maybe dont even realize it.

I'm one of the site's administrators and I can unequivocally tell you that we remove posts where people name other players as dirty drivers because we don't allow naming and shaming.

Aside from that, what they get up to in public lobbies is their business and not ours. We're not the PSN police and we couldn't enforce any particular set of driving standards regulations in public lobbies even if we wanted to. If people drive badly and post up videos showing what they think is other people driving badly, they end up getting a bit of a shock, as the discussion very rarely goes in their favour.

I wonder if this stems from you not getting the answer you wanted from a thread you posted the other day of an incident online?


Incidentally, the only "rules of racing" that apply to GT Sport lobbies are the ones Polyphony Digital chooses to implement. If you don't get penalised for something, it's permitted. If you do, it isn't. Whether this reflects whatever real-world rules of racing you think should apply or not isn't really relevant.

 

[rono_thomas]

But that answer is not applicable since people do not give space then come to GTP to cry foul, the rules in racing have details those details important. So many cry about Dirty drivers this and that often its THEM thats causing the problem.

I also find it funny some want to seemingly bury the topic as if this is not an issue instead of using this as an opportunity to teach people THE ACTUAL RULES of racing vs "give space" that's not applicable to 2 cars fighting for the lead in a RACE, more details specifically about who has right of way and when is critical...

It really depends if the track position was gained in a controled manner or in an illegal cannon ball smash fest that usuall dive bombs result in.

Also why read codemasters?

You can find all the information from real world racing sites.

 

[K3Tuning]

The answer isn't C, it's "No", as in "Neither of these two things is the right answer", rather than "A third party, unnamed to this point, is the right answer.".

I disagree with you

Also No would be conciderred a C answer to an A or B question .

You suggest there is another correct answer but won't give details on it so, not sure what you expect out of posting since you refuse to clairify but have no probles debaiting the crypticness of your post. Why go about it like this? Its a good way to invite the other guy to misunderstand you possibly get annoyed with your empty answers and step out of line so you can use some administrator clout on a missbehaving member. Very passive agressive behavior... Look at all these post and you've not said a thing yet.

I don't expect anything of you... I'm answering the question you posed. I've not asked anything further of you in any way. If you don't like the answer, I can only shrug.

Its not about if I like or dislike the answer. You've not really given one, if you give a C aswer to an a or b question you can either explain c or dont expect much at all because its not an answer, refusing to further explain is being cryptic not helpful. This is passive aggressive behavior.

However, I've read a few of your intervening posts and you seem to have a bit of a bee about GTPlanet for some reason:

Not sure what that means to have a bit of a bee about GTP? I got crucified in a thread over this topic so I want to point out the rules say I was perfectly allowed to do what I did racing on PD servers.

I'm one of the site's administrators and I can unequivocally tell you that we remove posts where people name other players as dirty drivers because we don't allow naming and shaming.

Its not about naming and shaming although I got shamed for how I took corner... Told I was wrong for this and that despite my explaining I had trac position and even though I wasn't on the fast line it was my corner to do so nothing I did was dirty.

Aside from that, what they get up to in public lobbies is their business and not ours. We're not the PSN police and we couldn't enforce any particular set of driving standards regulations in public lobbies even if we wanted to. If people drive badly and post up videos showing what they think is other people driving badly, they end up getting a bit of a shock, as the discussion very rarely goes in their favour.

Good point GTP rules dont really apply to racing PD servers, but why not learn about the finer point of racing vs sweep it under the rug n point to a rules section people already know not everybody to say the least goes to read them.

I wonder if this stems from you not getting the answer you wanted from a thread you posted the other day of an incident online?

Yes

Yes this does stem from that thread as I said so.... Its a great opportunity to inadvertently get people more familiar with the real rules, give space is not applicable to racing where further definition is required lmfao this aint the Highway in a grocery getter.

It really depends if the track position was gained in a controled manner or in an illegal cannon ball smash fest that usuall dive bombs result in.

So car and a half in the lead BEFORE turn in means the track position was gained in a controlled manner. MID CORNER if the tail steps out a touch I'm still in control in fact stepped it out on purpose even if not everybody can do it, I can.

POINT IS not how I took the corner, OPTIMUM Racing line IS NOT always the fastest one when 2 cars fighting for position one overtakes a car in the optimum fast line

However the track position was already gained on the straight a controlled manner.

Please tho give me more examples to show somebody who is confused on who has right of way

Also why read codemasters?

You can find all the information from real world racing sites.

Came up first in the Google search and applies to video games where crashing doesn't put you in the hospital or morgue or cost a cent in repairs. Lots of things in the real world where we have a failing penalty system in the game

 

[watto79]

You really weren't crucified in the other thread. You put a video up for criticism, your driving was criticised and you were given really solid advice.

The same thing is happening in this thread.

It was one corner from one race. If you're happy with it and don't accept the criticism as valid just let it go.

 

[rono_thomas]

Please tho give me more examples to show somebody who is confused on who has right of way

I already did this for you, in the other thread but this following link is extremely useful.


https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/f1metrics.wordpress.com/2014/08/28/the-rules-of-racing/amp/

Please dont think I’m attacking you, but dont expect me to dress things up for you. From my perspective I will give you my honest assessment.

Following these rules will enable you to achieve an SR of 99 and further more maintain it.

 

[K3Tuning]

I dissagree with you

I made a legal move and didn't ask for driving advice. The question is only if the move was legal or not.... Every reason given as to why it was a bad move is proven to be false..... Thats facts.

Stop spreading falsehoods, you talk as if you know the rules but clearly you have some issues. Every argument made against my move is proven false in the rules you act like you know but clearly do not.

 

[rono_thomas]

I dissagree with you

I made a legal move and didn't ask for driving advice. The question is only if the move was legal or not.... Every reason given as to why it was a bad move is proven to be false..... Thats facts.

Then no its not legal you were not able to hold the natural racing line because you had too much speed.

 

[K3Tuning]

Then no its not legal you were not able to hold the natural racing line because you had too much speed.

Natural racing line? lol Track position has the racing line.. Seems you dont really know what the racing line is do you. I had the Track Position before and going into the corner. Car and a Half ahead, not even side by side, and if side by side I would of still had Track Position being on the inside. No such thing as "Natural Racing Line" I MUST follow.......

My point EXACTLY

You seem to think the fast optimum line is always the racing line lmfao too much video games with imaginary fixed racing lines lololol...

 

[_ApexPredator]

What is this thread? OP is a lecture that sounds as though it's only applicable to himself, and where's the clip of this divebomb that isn't a divebomb?

I'd also like to know who Corner Is It is.

 

[rono_thomas]

Natural racing line? lol Track position has the racing line.. Seems you dont really know what the racing line is do you

You did not achieve track position, you outbraked yourself and lost control which meant you wound up shooting away from the apex, the natural racing line is not a V.

 

[K3Tuning]

Im the blue car up front.

Its pic I already have Ill get more n maybe make video of just the corner.

You did not achieve track position, you outbraked yourself and lost control which meant you wound up shooting away from the apex, the natural racing line is not a V.

Wrong, I achieved Track position by using an inside late brake maneuver. I had track position before turn in way out and took the way I needed to not only make the corner but also leave room for anybody in the outside lane

Your making stuff up as you go to suit your argument lolol "natural racing line" clearly spreading misinformation.

Wait you know, give the benefit of the doubt. Please link up something talking about the natural racing line I must follow...... GL

 

[_ApexPredator]

View attachment 790747

Im the blue car up front.

Its pic I already have Ill get more n maybe make video of just the corner.

Ok, so you're asking whose corner is it out of those three?
Hard to tell from a still but it looks like P2 is more likely to come out ahead. P1 still has the brake lights on and is already too deep to take an optimal line and carry the momentum.