Why are the Auto Boxes so stupid

[John Smith UK]

I know Polyphony don’t want everyone to drive with Auto gearboxes they want people to drive with Manuals so that possible explains why cars with Auto boxes are definitely slower than manuals on like for like basis

however ask any top racing car designer manual or full auto and they will say full auto every time, it will always be in the right gear for the right part of the track. Ask any of the HyperCar manufacturers manual or auto and auto is the only option for reasons ranging from better acceleration to lower emissions and better economy.

i played The Barcelona daily earlier, the car would not accelerate through corners with the steering beyond a certain lock, that’s not right, of course it would but acceleration would be dented by excess wheel scrub, whenever I braked the gear advice would be X but the car would not drop to that gear it would always be a gear or 2 higher denting the acceleration out of the corner.

I know Polyphony has its own rules around what is acceptable and what isn’t in racing in their eyes, Auto drivers are evil but they are faster than manuals so why can’t the game give a smart gearbox to its users not the pile of rubbish that there is.

im a casual gamer so play with a controller and don’t want to drive manual - want to race fair and square - with an Auto box seems Polyphony don’t want me to be able to

 

[TT92]

Also, in previous GT games you could override the auto and force a down/upshift if needed with the paddles. I do miss this function. On faster cars e.g. Red Bull fan car, Tomahawk etc. I do drive in auto as I can't keep up with speed of the shifts that are needed ;-)

 

[Famine]

I know Polyphony don’t want everyone to drive with Auto gearboxes they want people to drive with Manuals so that possible explains why cars with Auto boxes are definitely slower than manuals on like for like basis

however ask any top racing car designer manual or full auto and they will say full auto every time, it will always be in the right gear for the right part of the track. Ask any of the HyperCar manufacturers manual or auto and auto is the only option for reasons ranging from better acceleration to lower emissions and better economy.

i played The Barcelona daily earlier, the car would not accelerate through corners with the steering beyond a certain lock, that’s not right, of course it would but acceleration would be dented by excess wheel scrub, whenever I braked the gear advice would be X but the car would not drop to that gear it would always be a gear or 2 higher denting the acceleration out of the corner.

I know Polyphony has its own rules around what is acceptable and what isn’t in racing in their eyes, Auto drivers are evil but they are faster than manuals so why can’t the game give a smart gearbox to its users not the pile of rubbish that there is.

im a casual gamer so play with a controller and don’t want to drive manual - want to race fair and square - with an Auto box seems Polyphony don’t want me to be able to

It's not an automatic gearbox, it's a gearbox that shifts automatically - up at redline, down at some predetermined point I can't be bothered to recall - so that you don't have to do it.

 

[John Smith UK]

It's not an automatic gearbox, it's a gearbox that shifts automatically - up at redline, down at some predetermined point I can't be bothered to recall - so that you don't have to do it.

Agreed you are totally correct which in a racing car should make it almost a perfect companion don’t you think

 

[Dave A]

I know Polyphony don’t want everyone to drive with Auto gearboxes they want people to drive with Manuals so that possible explains why cars with Auto boxes are definitely slower than manuals on like for like basis

How do you know this? Why would it bother PD if most people (and I'm sure most do) used automatically changing gears?

But yes they are slower in general as it's just code relating the the speed and revs determining when to shift rather than perspective of what's ahead. It's not simulating a real life auto gearbox either.

i played The Barcelona daily earlier, the car would not accelerate through corners with the steering beyond a certain lock, that’s not right, of course it would but acceleration would be dented by excess wheel scrub, whenever I braked the gear advice would be X but the car would not drop to that gear it would always be a gear or 2 higher denting the acceleration out of the corner.

I drive with manual gear changes and I regularly take corners 1 or 2 gears higher than the recommended and post faster lap times as a result. I found that many of the license tests and missions were not possible using the recommended gear indicator.

im a casual gamer so play with a controller and don’t want to drive manual - want to race fair and square - with an Auto box seems Polyphony don’t want me to be able to

You can still hammer the AI with auto, it's perfectly fair to use whichever suits you, but you'll get more control by changing gears manually.

 

[O604]

Interesting thing I noticed doing the Circuit Experience, all the demonstration/ghosts are using AT.

AT is plenty quick. MT offers more options but you have know how to use it. It's easy and common to lose time in the wrong gear.

 

[MotorHammer]

Personally I think Manual is way more fun.. thus more addicting… this I stay on this game instead of jumping to another. Maybe PD wants you addicted to there game… They got me for sure!

 

[Famine]

Agreed you are totally correct which in a racing car should make it almost a perfect companion don’t you think

No. In a racing car you will want to retain full control over what gear the car is in at any given point.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Gear changes in a racing car with an Auto 'box, are like commas and full stops... they're never there when you need 'em....

Amirite?!

 

[Techlet]

In the same vein, Auto Drive should be way faster than controlling the car yourself because it should always give you the right steering and throttle input at the right part of the track, no?

 

[TexRex]

I know Polyphony don’t want everyone to drive with Auto gearboxes they want people to drive with Manuals so that possible explains why cars with Auto boxes are definitely slower than manuals on like for like basis

They're obviously in cahoots with Big Shifter.

 

[Yard_Sale]

I know Polyphony don’t want everyone to drive with Auto gearboxes they want people to drive with Manuals so that possible explains why cars with Auto boxes are definitely slower than manuals on like for like basis

however ask any top racing car designer manual or full auto and they will say full auto every time, it will always be in the right gear for the right part of the track. Ask any of the HyperCar manufacturers manual or auto and auto is the only option for reasons ranging from better acceleration to lower emissions and better economy.

i played The Barcelona daily earlier, the car would not accelerate through corners with the steering beyond a certain lock, that’s not right, of course it would but acceleration would be dented by excess wheel scrub, whenever I braked the gear advice would be X but the car would not drop to that gear it would always be a gear or 2 higher denting the acceleration out of the corner.

I know Polyphony has its own rules around what is acceptable and what isn’t in racing in their eyes, Auto drivers are evil but they are faster than manuals so why can’t the game give a smart gearbox to its users not the pile of rubbish that there is.

im a casual gamer so play with a controller and don’t want to drive manual - want to race fair and square - with an Auto box seems Polyphony don’t want me to be able to

The only kind of motors that would benefit from slush boxes are those with narrow and “peaky” power curves. Hence why they were banned in F1.


For just about everything else, a manual(ish) gear box will always be faster to those who know how to judge a specific situation and use the gear box to manipulate the proper torque curve and/or RPM range for said scenario

 

[Kratos_Q8]

Also, in previous GT games you could override the auto and force a down/upshift if needed with the paddles. I do miss this function. On faster cars e.g. Red Bull fan car, Tomahawk etc. I do drive in auto as I can't keep up with speed of the shifts that are needed ;-)

me 2

 

[John Smith UK]

The only kind of motors that would benefit from slush boxes are those with narrow and “peaky” power curves. Hence why they were banned in F1.


For just about everything else, a manual(ish) gear box will always be faster to those who know how to judge a specific situation and use the gear box to manipulate the proper torque curve and/or RPM range for said scenario

I think you’re wrong, with a free hand no race car designer would build a car with a manual box, semi Autos were first introduced by Mclaren as Senna wanted to keep his hands on the wheel while racing, for speed - with the advent of DCT boxes and linking them to GPS data meant that the cars were always in the right gear before during and after a corner and we’re quicker than non auto cars - the FIA banned them as they maintain that the driver should be responsible for this not the car But the auto cars were quicker as a result.

You look at acceleration performance between sports cars - difference between manuals and PDK equipped Porsches can be as much 0.8 of a second to 60 mph. Manuals are the romantic view

 

[NJ72]

No racing car uses an automatic gearbox that shifts for them. Racing drivers want full control over what gear and when. The PD 'auto' is just an algorithm to shift up at redline and shift down at a certain point - there is no intelligence to it, and no situational awareness, which is exactly why manual is better in real life and in game.

 

[Irrmchester]

Sometimes it is so annoying where 1st gear is about 120-130 km/h, but automatic gearbox won`t switch it from 2nd to 1st gear until I slow down up to 50-60 km/h. So after exit of a sharp corner, car accelerates waay slow
Wish there was a button which can force to downshift or upshift sometimes

 

[xMAXIx79]

Very briefly and concisely... if you are not satisfied with the AT, you should use MT.

And I really ask everyone to definitely prove with verifiable numbers that he/she is generally faster with MT.
YES the really...really good drivers are...and that's undeniable.. but a lot of drivers here on the forum aren't anywhere near that level...NEW ME!!! But I drive 90-95% AT... and I'm definitely NOT slow.

So please, dear topic starter, prove your dislike and devaluation of the supposedly and apparently so bad automatic transmission of the game with numbers. I suggest you and others who talk so badly about AT post a series of your CE or license times, I'd like to compare them to my AT times.

 

[jgtc_lover]

with the advent of DCT boxes and linking them to GPS data meant that the cars were always in the right gear before during and after a corner and we’re quicker than non auto cars - the FIA banned them

Do you have a source for this? I've never heard of such a system and I can't find anything like this on google.

 

[xMAXIx79]

Do you have a source for this? I've never heard of such a system and I can't find anything like this on google.

I know that Porsche installs such a system in some or all of their models with any automatic transmission. However, I do not know whether this system also works on a race track.
These systems are said to be very good, but they only really become noticeable when you are driving well above the speed limit on these roads.

 

[Meythia]

Do you have a source for this? I've never heard of such a system and I can't find anything like this on google.

Google Search

No matter how much praise this might have (I didnt check any further than seeing the results), I am very much against automated systems that require outside connectivity for the fear of system failure.

 

[snowgt]

I think you’re wrong, with a free hand no race car designer would build a car with a manual box, semi Autos were first introduced by Mclaren as Senna wanted to keep his hands on the wheel while racing, for speed - with the advent of DCT boxes and linking them to GPS data meant that the cars were always in the right gear before during and after a corner and we’re quicker than non auto cars - the FIA banned them as they maintain that the driver should be responsible for this not the car But the auto cars were quicker as a result.

You look at acceleration performance between sports cars - difference between manuals and PDK equipped Porsches can be as much 0.8 of a second to 60 mph. Manuals are the romantic view

Actually, semi-automatic gearboxes were introduced by Ferrari in its Ferrari 640 (its 1989 F1 car). But these were neither DCT nor did they shift without driver input. The only thing they did, was shift faster and with the steering wheel paddles. Later on, there were systems that jumped several gears on downshift only, depending on track position. These were outlawed.

None of these systems ever shifted completely on their own.

What you're also mixing up, is that DCT gearboxes are nowadays both faster and more economical than manual shifting, but that does not mean that they are faster on a track in fully automatic mode. Yes, they offer all advantages of a faster acceleration to the driver, but on a track a driver that's proficient enough will almost always be faster in manual mode (i.e. choosing his own shifting points), only using the faster shift times that the DCT or semi-automatic mode offer.

Edit: The reason auto gearboxes are more economical nowadays is actually, that they usually have more gears than the manual option, and therefore can more often be in the optimal rpm range to minimize fuel usage. It used to be the other way round (fewer gears than manual), which meant that the losses from the auto gearbox made the cars use more fuel.

 

[jgtc_lover]

Google Search

No matter how much praise this might have (I didnt check any further than seeing the results), I am very much against automated systems that require outside connectivity for the fear of system failure.

Thank you, I didn't quite know how to word that in a search.

There really doesn't seem to be much on them except for BMW/Rolls Royce working on them 10 years ago. There's nothing on these appearing in any racing cars or even an FIA ban as OP suggests.

 

[Meythia]

Thank you, I didn't quite know how to word that in a search.

There really doesn't seem to be much on them except for BMW/Rolls Royce working on them 10 years ago. There's nothing on these appearing in any racing cars or even an FIA ban as OP suggests.

If this was supposed to be FIA F1 regulations, I cant find any other than 1994 rule change to ban CVT type gearboxes.

 

[daan]

I think you’re wrong, with a free hand no race car designer would build a car with a manual box, semi Autos were first introduced by Mclaren as Senna wanted to keep his hands on the wheel while racing, for speed - with the advent of DCT boxes and linking them to GPS data meant that the cars were always in the right gear before during and after a corner and we’re quicker than non auto cars - the FIA banned them as they maintain that the driver should be responsible for this not the car But the auto cars were quicker as a result.

[citation needed]

The choice between manual and automatic in a game, is entirely separate from manual and automatic options in real life.

Automatic in a game choses when to change the gears, and changes them for you. IRL some dragsters are automatic, but there is not a single car in any professional racing series that choses when to change gear for the driver.

 

[Meythia]

[citation needed]

The choice between manual and automatic in a game, is entirely separate from manual and automatic options in real life.

Automatic in a game choses when to change the gears, and changes them for you. IRL some dragsters are automatic, but there is not a single car in any professional racing series that choses when to change gear for the driver.

Chaparral 2E: one car with fully automatic transmission, so the driver could use his now free foot for the adjustable backwing instead.
I think the other Chaparrals are also of the same kind, one thing less to worry about with their "strange" new ideas.

 

[daan]

Chaparral 2E: one car with fully automatic transmission, so the driver could use his now free foot for the adjustable backwing instead.
I think the other Chaparrals are also of the same kind, one thing less to worry about with their "strange" new ideas.

Yeah, I was meaning currently.

 

[Meythia]

Yeah, I was meaning currently.

Should have edited: cant think of any more recent car, semi-automatic just makes more sense for more control.

 

[Famine]

I think someone's confusing hybrid deployment - which does happen in a pre-programmed way (within a range of conditions and which the driver can override) - with gearchanges somehow.

 

[sodazman]

I've driven the Porsche PDK and in Auto mode it shifts so precisely you can use it on the track without touching the paddles.

 

[RoadRacer2556]

I drive with manual gear changes and I regularly take corners 1 or 2 gears higher than the recommended and post faster lap times as a result. I found that many of the license tests and missions were not possible using the recommended gear indicator.

Absolutely true. the indicated gear is almost always lower than optimal. If you went into the indicated gear most or all of the time, you would have to slow waaay down for most corners.