Why did PD take so long?

[R34EVO9]

👎👎👎

If you replace Kaz and his team, you can effectively say goodbye to the GT series. It would be like what happened to Command & Conquer when EA took over.

Anyway, PD didn't all of these 5 years modelling just the cars. They had to model each of the tracks, along with writing a new physics engine, source code, effect design, graphics, etc etc.

Also remember that PD were thrown the GT PSP side project.

GT PSP should have been out on the back burner until GT5 was made

 

[cleanvrsix]

The team is too small, and they have no idea how to make a truly decent game, I dont want a GT6 for PS3 (a PS3 isnt capable of running GT5 to a good standard so they should just update GT5 to GT5 spec II and spec III (gradually turning all cars that matter into premium cars and adding more races into the current events list) until PS4 is ready, then making GT6 (which will obviously require 5 years work to make the new OS)

GT5 already is ahead of the PS3 hardware so i have to agree with you there...its almost like they made it ready for the PS4 with minor changes needed at that point without having to rework a whole new OS but who knows they might just have to remake a OS with PS4 release which i doubt! it would have been a poor move to remake a OS for GT5 just to make another one for GT6 and PS4...

 

[Alara78]

You do realise that making this game encompasses more than just making the car models look good.

 

[Scoop2004]

GT5 already is ahead of the PS3 hardware so i have to agree with you there...its almost like they made it ready for the PS4 with minor changes needed at that point without having to rework a whole new OS but who knows they might just have to remake a OS with PS4 release which i doubt! it would have been a poor move to remake a OS for GT5 just to make another one for GT6 and PS4...

Since we've heard nothing about the developement of PS4 then I highly doubt PD have made a game that is compatable with technology that probably doesnt exist yet.

 

[MowTin]

1. The transition from PS2 development to PS3. Look at 3D Realms. They failed to make the transition from 2D to 3D engines. Transitions can be rough because you have to start over from scratch.

2. There was no online racing in GT4. Adding netcode and an entire online layer is a lot of work especially for a company that has not done it before.

3. GT5 tries to do maybe too much. NASCAR, Rally, Super GT, weather, day night cycles, ultra-detailed car models etc. Throw in 3D vision and head tracking.

I think they actually put in a lot of work. Five years sounds about right.

 

[Neo_Xsendra]

Erm ... no gt6 will be on the ps3 ... 2 years from now +/-
It will be gt5+

cars will be premium
most likely there will be more cars
there will be more tracks
more events
and a couple new features
enginge will have a fix of problems
if we're lucky there will be more racemods and a better editor.

there wont be a single upgrate in graphik. its just a "upgrade"

and you know what? i will buy it! because of all this! and then some years later, i will buy a ps4 for gt7! wich will be a all new gt again most likely (couse the hardware will change a lot)

its a circle.

btw: ps 4 will be there about ... 2013/2014

 

[cleanvrsix]

Dude they were taking smoke breaks. and im pretty sure pd had only 1 bathroom so that must have been a problem. Then the had to worry about anthrax and the war on terrorism. there was a lot taking place in the 5 years that pd and the guys had to worry about just like the rest of us were. and lets not forget swine flue. that must have delayed production at least 6 months.

Can you see the seriousness in the post

These guys weren't doing something and i really want a straight answer on this. Not another one of KY's ridiculous answers I want a real REASON TO WHY IT TOOK 5 YEARS

Why did it take them 5 years to make GT1, which then they had only 7 developers on the project. why did it take them ~4 to make GT4 and another 5 years to make GT5, id say the size of the dev. team and the BIG visions of kaz and the goals his team had to meet! i dunno this is just personal opinion but im sure it's a big part of why it took so long and im sure there's a LOT of other reasons no-one knows about...like the swine flu epidemic and 9/11... haha

 

[Scoop2004]

5 years for 200 car models, code, tracks, porting over 800 standard cars, physics etc is still a very long time. You have to remember that other game developers can knock up a game in 18 month-2 years that is not exactly terrible. Woud you say GT5 is better than FM1, 2 and 3 put together?

Is there anyone on here who WOULD'NT be happier with a 720P game with 600 Premium (not quite as many polys as there are, but still, more than FM3) cars and no standards, and AI that knocks the socks off other games?

 

[dzidza]

Since we've heard nothing about the developement of PS4 then I highly doubt PD have made a game that is compatable with technology that probably doesnt exist yet.

What we haven't heard, doesn't mean it's not in development.

 

[cleanvrsix]

Since we've heard nothing about the developement of PS4 then I highly doubt PD have made a game that is compatable with technology that probably doesnt exist yet.

Actually there's a couple rumors on the dev. of the PS4 and im sure all the game companies will know about it wayyyy before the public will so it's not too far fetched to think kaz built the GT5 OS around the concept of working on the PS4 plus i personally think the PS4 will be released within the next 3-4 years definitely ....but who knows this is just a best guess for me!

 

[Bluez_Freak]

It's unbelievable how this still feels like a rushed game after 5 years.

I am pretty certain Sony said to Kaz at some point "stop and release the damn thing".

It's more than obvious that many aspects are unfinished (online, A+B spec events design, damage). On the other hand there is so much graphic detail in the premium cars that we can barely see.

They modelled cockpits to the bolt and we cannot have a look around in the photo mode.

All in all, I thing they used a lot of resources on matters which do not matter and left other more important undone.

 

[Neo_Xsendra]

Is there anyone on here who WOULD'NT be happier with a 720P game with 600 Premium (not quite as many polys as there are, but still, more than FM3) cars and no standards, and AI that knocks the socks off other games?

erm ... i wouldn't be happier -.^
with just 600 cars i would been disappointed like hell.

yeah ai could be better. maybe for ai they should find some fresh blood, but i like the ported cars more then having them not -.^

its a matter of opinion and ... you know ... most people got theyre own

 

[Dave x1]

If they continue like this we will have GT6 ready in 2020,and for sure PS4....sadly PS3 will get only one GT i think.

 

[calan_svc]

with just 600 cars i would been disappointed like hell.

Unless they were all Skylines and MX-5's. That would be AWESOME!

 

[amar212]

Is there anyone on here who WOULD'NT be happier with a 720P game with 600 Premium (not quite as many polys as there are, but still, more than FM3) cars and no standards, and AI that knocks the socks off other games?

Graphics resolution have nothing to do with car count.

AI knocks the socks off any driving game outhere anyways.

You are mixing many fruits here, but nevermind.

Sony probably forced PD to finish the game and here we are.

If updates continue as they should, we will probably have complete package around end of 2011.

GT5 is extremely serious project and you can't view it from perspective of any other game outhere. You can compare also it with other driving franchises from various platforms until sun freezes but it is also not an valid one from many reasons.

Of course, this thread is just permanent recycle and vertigo of similar points over and over again, but if you fail to comprehend what actually took so long just by the plain and rational look of GT5 as a sum-of-its-parts, than no explanation in the world can justify the longevity and actual complexion of GT5 development without writing an elaborate 7000-word essay.

 

[SmokeAlot]

Agreed that the time it took is ridiculous... but it's not just about modeling the cars. Think of the tracks and all the texturing too. Plus physics... kind of important. Lots of programming needed.


But I'm not backing them up by any means.

Just as far as modeling goes, it took me 3 weeks to model this;

And I'm really not impressed with their 2010 Camaro. It's not even funny how screwed their model is.


And it took 4 weeks to model this;

So if it was JUST ME modeling, it would take approx 15 years at 4 weeks per car... but 50 modelers? Seriously?

 

[Bluez_Freak]

AI knocks the socks off any driving game outhere anyways.

Try F1 2010 please.

All it's other problems aside (fake qualifying etc), it has much better AI than the GT5 zombies.

 

[cleanvrsix]

Graphics resolution have nothing to do with car count.

AI knocks the socks off any driving game outhere anyways.

You are mixing many fruits here, but nevermind.

Sony probably forced PD to finish the game and here we are.

If updates continue as they should, we will probably have complete package around end of 2011.

GT5 is extremely serious project and you can't view it from perspective of any other game outhere. You can compare also it with other driving franchises from various platforms until sun freezes but it is also not an valid one from many reasons.

Of course, this thread is just permanent recycle and vertigo of similar points over and over again, but if you fail to comprehend what actually took so long just by the plain and rational look of GT5 as a sum-of-its-parts, than no explanation in the world can justify the longevity and actual complexion of GT5 development without writing an elaborate 7000-word essay.

Very well put 👍

 

[stojanovicp]

Well there is a bunch of stuff in the game, 1000 cars, 200 premiums each taking time, and a bunch of tracks, some extremly detailed, bunbch of features and + more updates to come, just give thjem a break

 

[Morphisor]

It's quite funny to see how everyone can form an opinion like 'PD is incompetent, Kaz should retire!' without having even the slightest clue as to all the processes involved in making this game.

The game is not as finished as we all would like, we can agree on that. But that doesn't say ANYTHING about the competence of PD. Saying otherwise just shows how little you understand.

 

[TT3AZ]

The thing is, that forza 3 had 400 cars, as much detail that tha cars in gt5, and they managed in in a short ammount of time man. I don't think we ever will get all cars premium, and the premium cars that exist, is worthless really. The cockpit view is just a joke, so hard and bumpy to race in, and thet detail in the cockpic while racing is very less in detail.

PD is still in the past, modeling cars from scale models. And we cant give PD a break, we waited 5 years man.

 

[JoeMaPampang]

I just dont understand the graphics are NOT better that GT5P. They Bascily wrote new physisc data, New Premiums, and the rest is straight copies from previous games. How could they release it like this. this not a finished game i was expecting from PD. Really dissapointing.
"When things look good the look pretty damn good, but when it looks bad it is totally horrible and not better than previous itterations."

 

[skylinefx]

I guess if we could find out the number of people who worked on GT5, maybe then it would make some sense...

 

[Rayzor]

I hate how some of you people complain about the game. It does not matter how long they take, they could take 20 years if they wanted. It is their game. You are not being forced to wait.

Just enjoy the game and appreciate what you've got. If you really are getting irritated over just a game, you should put it down and go outside.

 

[Zer0]

But I'm not backing them up by any means.

Just as far as modeling goes, it took me 3 weeks to model this;

And how much it would take modelling and texturing the car full interior and optimizing the polygon mesh to GT5 standards and not only one car but all the LODs present in the game?

On most cars before modelling they take thousands of photos and measures, they disassemble real pieces and even put apart big detailed scale models. Is not just searching for the car manufacturer blueprints, a few google photos and the research is done. And there are all the little things that eat time and are not polygon related like getting a realistic wipers animation in every car, interior lights, digital gauges animation, adjusting the damage, physics and fine tuning, etc..

Anyway nice modelling.

I guess if we could find out the number of people who worked on GT5, maybe then it would make some sense...

Yep, they are outsourcing some work.
EDIT: Dhruva (India) and Glassegg (Vietnam) for example

Dhruva: Dhruva created over 60% of the 500+ cars for Forza 3.
Glassegg: 180 cars - Hundreds of parts, kits and wheels - Tracks including Amalfi, Catalunya

http://neogaf.net/forum/showpost.php?p=24881189&postcount=426

 

[reverand33]

i can't wait for a parody of "leave britney alone" and change everything over to "Leave PD alone" lol, it would be posted in every thread on this site.

 

[Robin]

It took so long because PD are perfectionists and as often happens with perfection you get so obsessed with it that you end up releasing half fulfilled ideas.

That and they had a woefully small amount of staff, 100-150 staff is way too few people for the task they were trying to achieve. Plus they didn't outsource any development work.

Robin.

 

[DanDiplo]

It's sad to read some of the comments in this thread that are obviously from a bunch of children who haven't the slightest clue what is involved in software design.

First, you need to negotiate with all the car manufactures to license the vehicles and get the rights. Then you need to negotiate with all the race circuits and acquire the rights. Then you need to get people like Jeff Gordon on-board and acquire the NASCAR license. Then you need to negotiate with Top Gear, Red Bull and all the different 3rd parties whose products make up the game. Then you need to license all the music from all the different artists.

Then you need to make highly detailed 3D models of interiors and exteriors of over 200 cars. These models are probably more detailed then anything seen on a console before. That means photographers dispatched around the world to take thousands of photos and then these need to translated into 3D models, textures, height maps etc.

Then you need to model all the tracks, measure them, aquire GPS data, drive them in real life, consult with real-life race drivers about how they "feel" etc.

Then you need to develop a propriety 3D engine capable of running at 1080p at 60 FPS with up to 16 high-polygon cars in it and with dynamic lighting and weather effects. And do this all within the very limited memory of the PS3.

Then you need to develop a complex physics engine and squeeze that into the limited PS3 memory.

Then you need to develop net-code from scratch, which is massively difficult.

Then you need to develop the UI.

Then you need to add support for multiple control devices.

Then you need to test it, re-test it and test it again. Then fix any bugs. And every bug and change you make needs to go through change-control and be thoroughly tested to ensure no regressions creep in.

And that's just scratching the surface of what is involved...

 

[skylinefx]

It's sad to read some of the comments in this thread that are obviously from a bunch of children who haven't the slightest clue what is involved in software design.

First, you need to negotiate with all the car manufactures to license the vehicles and get the rights. Then you need to negotiate with all the race circuits and acquire the rights. Then you need to get people like Jeff Gordon on-board and acquire the NASCAR license. Then you need to negotiate with Top Gear, Red Bull and all the different 3rd parties whose products make up the game. Then you need to license all the music from all the different artists.

Then you need to make highly detailed 3D models of interiors and exteriors of over 200 cars. These models are probably more detailed then anything seen on a console before. That means photographers dispatched around the world to take thousands of photos and then these need to translated into 3D models, textures, height maps etc.

Then you need to model all the tracks, measure them, aquire GPS data, drive them in real life, consult with real-life race drivers about how they "feel" etc.

Then you need to develop a propriety 3D engine capable of running at 1080p at 60 FPS with up to 16 high-polygon cars in it and with dynamic lighting and weather effects. And do this all within the very limited memory of the PS3.

Then you need to develop a complex physics engine and squeeze that into the limited PS3 memory.

Then you need to develop net-code from scratch, which is massively difficult.

Then you need to develop the UI.

Then you need to add support for multiple control devices.

Then you need to test it, re-test it and test it again. Then fix any bugs. And every bug and change you make needs to go through change-control and be thoroughly tested to ensure no regressions creep in.

And that's just scratching the surface of what is involved...

If they developed GT5 using this method (Iterative, not sure if this applies to games) then they are a bit silly... And I wouldn't think that they've developed the game like this. Would be more like this...

Negotiate with a car manufacturer. If they accept, the modelling team starts modelling the cars, while other people negotiate with other car manufacturers and so on. Unless they have a really small team and can't do few things at once. But they have approx 120 if that information is correct.

 

[risuku13]

I believe they had to recreate the game engine, etc. (?)